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  1. #1
    Active Member Two Rings
    Join Date
    Apr 05 2011
    AZ Member #
    73486
    My Garage
    2008 Audi A4 S-line
    Location
    New Providence, Pa

    Audi A8 D2 fuel pump repair, mystery solved!!

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    OK, Finally after all this time, I have finally decided to figure out this elusive fuel delivery setup. No one has any info on the way it works, all they know is what parts to buy, and if there is a problem with the unit in the tank, the only option was to buy another tank and fuel pump or burn the car. I find the latter to be extreme, but not as extreme as having to buy a whole other tank. Up till now the myth was that the inner tank pump housing and associated hardware was placed in there then the tank was constructed around it. I had done some looking rather closely at the inner workings and discovered that the inner parts can be removed and repaired. The following is my write up on the subject.

    First I'll give some history. My friend has the same car as me, same year, same color. So we'll call it Karr (I really hope that some of you get that). Anyhoo, He lives in Alabama and one day while talking to him on the phone his car died. We'll after taking it to three billhilly garages the try to remove the fuel pump assembly, with no luck, due to the spinning nut in the base of the pump, I told him to send the tank to me. So billhilly garage number 3 removed the tank and they shipped it up to me in PA. Within 5 minutes of receiving it I got the pump out. I simply used my impact wrench in reverse while prying the pump up. I knew this would melt the stuck nut out. Sure enough it did.

    Once the pump was out, I addressed the melted inner housing. I separated the nut from the bolt then heated it up and melted it back in place. it was slightly off center, then I used a bunch of gas tank repair around it, let it dry then filed it smooth. Long and the short, that didn't work well. The car ran, but then when it got below half a tank it started sucking air, than running poorly.

    So, by keeping Karr above 1/2 tank, my friend drove it from AL to PA so I could put it under the knife.

    Lets do a little explaining of the fuel system:


    The fuel pump is designed to draw fuel at a preset amount from both sides at once. The fuel gets drawn in from the gathering tubes. The housing assembly is to be solid with fuel to work properly. No more than 2-3 quarts. This allows for proper siphoning. Contrary to popular belief, when the fuel level gets below half a tank, the air that is getting in the system is not from the tube and funnel (see pic). The air is leaking in at the base of the inner housing. If the tube in the funnel was where the leak was, the pump would cavitate when the tank was almost full. That tube is really high up in the tank.




    This is the bottom of the assembly. When the tank fuel level is at 1/2 -1/3, this area of the pump begins to be exposed to air. Then the fuel starts to drain out of the housings and starts to allow the fuel pump to cavitate, thus ending its useful life.

    The Inner housing comes out pretty easy. First, remove pump. If you dont know how, there are two excellent videos on Youtube on how to do it.
    Once it is out, open the other access panel and remove the other fuel sender. Note the arrow that shows where it goes. Once thats opened up. Grab the tubes and lift the whatever its called up and try to shove the tubes toward the fuel pump assembly (towards the right). This is what is known as slack. Move to the other side, grab the inner housing assembly. Push it sideways toward the driver side (left). This is to release the hook that it hangs on the filler tube with. once loose, lean upper section forward then pull it right. The unit should be exposing its left crossover tube. Grab the connector and squeeze like hell. then pull it off. There are 4 tubes connected to that thing. Three are large, one is small. The small one has to be removed in the bottom of the tank. That small one kinda sucks to remove.


    Once its free, just origami the thing out of the tank.





    Now the fun parts. You can see in the pic that I used the gas tank repair, best I could do with it still in the tank.



    So, chisel that crap out and get to work. Use a dremel tool with a sanding tube to open the area up for work. You'll notice an area in the "triangle" that is lower than the rest. That is where the fuel comes in from the upper portion of the inner housing. It's best to keep that bit clear of obstructions.



    This is the nut that gives us all the trouble.



    Dry fit the nut and clear the hole underneath, put bolt up through bottom and attach to nut. Use torch to heat nut up then pull down through with slight pressure. DO NOT PULL THROUGH!!!!





    This is the final resting place of the nut. Be sure it is as centered over the hole as possible.



    Now, collect a small section of 1/2 inch CPVC and a 1/2 inch coupling. glue them together thus:



    Heat up the end of the pipe and put it down on top of the base nut.





    This allows for the pipe to conform to the contours on the base.

    Cut the end of the pipe off.



    Next mix up a bunch of epoxy. For this, the only Resin epoxy is the West system. It is available at many boat stores and is able to withstand gasoline. There is a difference between gasoline resistant and gasoline proof. Sorry I don't have a pic of the West System.


    Put as much as epoxy as possible on the contoured end of the pipe and fitting. and put as much as you can on the base around the nut. Then place the pipe over the base nut squishing the glue.



    Looks good huh???
    Let that dry for a few hours...overnight.. whatever....

    Once it is all dry/cured. Get out the trusty hacksaw and carefully cut off the excess, FOR THE LOVE OF GOD!!!! be careful not the damage the outer edge..



    Once that's done, sand the roughness down. I used an orbital palm sander. PVC is pretty soft, so a regular sanding block could be used.



    Clean out and look at finished product.



    Check the gasket, place it on the surface and look at it across the seating surface.


    Stop admiring and start putting it back together. Put it back together and fill it with water to check for leaks. There should be no leaks, none around the bolt, none around the edge, NONE!!!
    If there is a leak, It must be addressed before proceeding. Epoxy must be used, caulk or any other sealant like RTV or silicone will break down rapidly in gas.


    Once that is done, take it apart and put the inner housing back in the tank. Then hook all the lines back up. I must warn, it is a bit of a challenge getting them hooked back up, so some O-ring lube might help. The install is reverse of the removal. Then watch the video on youtube to see how the pump goes back in. Connect the front lines first. Then connect the small line on the bottom of the tank. Then connect the crossover tube. There are two connectors on the inner housing that point to the crossover. One is blocked off. Bear this in mind when reconnecting.




    The learning process for this fuel system has been a long one. I've been dealing with this issue on Karr for months. Geography didn't help. Well any way. I really hope that this tutorial helps, I just won't believe that the options are so limited for this critical system. Hopefully a few of you guys can keep your tanks in place. If anyone has anyquestions or needs help, just PM me and we'll work it out.

    Thanks for viewing
    Last edited by A8l McClure; 12-19-2011 at 06:04 PM. Reason: Pic conflicks

  2. #2
    Active Member Two Rings
    Join Date
    Apr 05 2011
    AZ Member #
    73486
    My Garage
    2008 Audi A4 S-line
    Location
    New Providence, Pa

    Ok, there are more pics if anybody wants to browse through them. These are all the pics of the project. Sorry they are not in order.. http://s1188.photobucket.com/albums/...gt3/?start=all
    Last edited by A8l McClure; 12-18-2011 at 04:50 PM. Reason: correcting text

  3. #3
    Active Member One Ring Chris08A4's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 05 2011
    AZ Member #
    70502
    My Garage
    2001 Mercury Cougar, 1993 Mazda Miata
    Location
    Lititz, PA

    OOOO
    Last edited by Chris08A4; 12-18-2011 at 05:01 PM.

  4. #4
    Active Member One Ring Chris08A4's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 05 2011
    AZ Member #
    70502
    My Garage
    2001 Mercury Cougar, 1993 Mazda Miata
    Location
    Lititz, PA

    Mods... You can delete this post and my pic above. I'm helping A8L with his pic issue.

  5. #5
    Active Member Two Rings Adjuster's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 26 2009
    AZ Member #
    37895
    Location
    Boise Idaho

    Holy smokes.

    Hope I never have a fuel pump die, I've always run my tanks to about 1/2, and then re-filled them as a rule, as most in tank fuel pumps do not like to be run dry, or cavitate as noted. The only time I've run to the end of a tank is on long highway runs, and even then, especially in the winter, it only takes a few to take a break, and fill up the tank while you take a break from sitting and driving. (Stand and refuel..) :)

    As with the rest of this machine, nothing, even the fuel tank is simple, but has to be complex, and designed to the very cutting edge of technology. (Great in some respects, but sucks when the stuff fails over time.)

    I've owned a 98 A8, and now have a 2004 A8L, but am looking at going back to a 2001 S8 and no more car payments for awhile. (Yes, extended warrenty for this A8 owner! :))
    Daily Driver 2004 A8L (With only 14k miles.)

    Replacing 1998 A8. (It's been a great car, just want a newer one without 136k+ on the clock.)

  6. #6
    Active Member Two Rings
    Join Date
    Apr 05 2011
    AZ Member #
    73486
    My Garage
    2008 Audi A4 S-line
    Location
    New Providence, Pa

    Yeah, the repair works but using PC-7 on the plastic would be a better solution. What I find astounding is that all the parts of the tank can be removed from the holes. Audi doesn't sell the parts separately. You could buy a used tank and gut it, thus saving you a bunch of time and hassle. Even better if you can find one that has been T-boned and get the folks there to sell you that part of the tank. They could even cut that section out. just a thought.. Or if you get real good at taking out the pump, you could "Test drive" one from a local rip off dealer and exchange it with yours in the driveway, then bring their car back with a full tank. I'll do that next time...

  7. #7
    Registered Member One Ring
    Join Date
    Jan 08 2013
    AZ Member #
    107155
    Location
    Bronx ny

    I need some help I have a 98 audi a8 It didnt turn on 1 day and I took it to a mechanic and they told me to replace the map sensor so I did and it ran good for about a week and now it doesnt want to turn on agine but the engine does turn over I was thinking it has somthing to do with gas but not sure can some please help thanks

  8. #8
    Veteran Member Three Rings tenspeed's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 12 2011
    AZ Member #
    85192
    Location
    Honeoye NY

    Quote Originally Posted by Getinit24365 View Post
    I need some help...
    What you need is to start a new thread.

  9. #9
    Registered Member One Ring
    Join Date
    Mar 17 2013
    AZ Member #
    111492
    Location
    Lithuania

    Can someone explain how the pump works ? Where it gather the fuel there it leaves and why there is hole in tube ?


    And that hose which is black in image is gathering fuel from tank ? Becouse to as it does aposite.

  10. #10
    Established Member Two Rings MEDEL51480's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 22 2004
    AZ Member #
    2221
    Location
    Ramstein, Germany DE

    Quote Originally Posted by A8l McClure View Post
    What is the part number for this little aluminum gasket? Does anyone know where I can pick one of these up online??

  11. #11
    Senior Member Two Rings
    Join Date
    Jun 27 2010
    AZ Member #
    60750
    Location
    US

    Quote Originally Posted by MEDEL51480 View Post
    What is the part number for this little aluminum gasket? Does anyone know where I can pick one of these up online??
    4D0298133D

    Just google that part # and you'll find a variety of Euro suppliers. HC sales often has the best prices on OEM parts.

  12. #12
    Veteran Member Four Rings HIstateS8's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 16 2005
    AZ Member #
    5311
    Location
    Aiea, Oahu, HI

    Holy crap, this thread revived from 2011, Lol. I just replaced my fuel pump late last year. I just had a local independant Audi/VW shop replace it, zero headaches. Lol
    -Brandon S.

    2002 Metallic Black //S8

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