Cayenne/Touareg Front Brake Installation (low-cost BBK)

[drjonez]

Not that this hasn't been covered in some detail elsewhere, but there are a few things that I ran into that weren't covered (or perhaps I overlooked them). Since I went the 330mm route, that is the only fitment I can comment on and what this DIY is based on.

The Basics
The Porsche Cayenne and the VW Touareg share platforms and have 4 or 6 piston Brembo front calipers. Calipers form the Cayenne come in pretty red and have a Brembo sticker on them....the Touareg calipers do not. The Touareg calipers are substantially cheaper because of this. Amazing what a coat of paint and sticker can do. Astoundingly, many VAG vehicles share the same caliper bolt pattern- the B6 being one of them.

Calipers
The calipers come in two flavors- those to fit 330mm rotors (1lE = 4 piston, 17Z = 6 piston) and those to fit 350mm rotors (no 4 piston option, 18Z = 6 piston). Be sure you select accordingly. 4 piston calipers are only for 330mm rotors, 6 piston come in both 330 and 350mm. All 6 piston calipers have staggered piston sizes, so you'll have to flip the bleeders/crossover pipe since the calipers mount on the front side of the rotor on the Cayenne/Touareg. 4 piston calipers (should) have the same size pistons, enabling mounting on either side of the vehicle.

330mm 4 piston calipers (1LE) can be sourced from:
'07+ Touareg

330mm 6 piston calipers (17Z) can be sourced from:
04-06 Touareg
04-2012 Cayenne V6

350mm 6 piston calipers (18Z) can be sourced from:
04-2012 Cayenne S, Cayenne Turbo
Touareg V10

Caveats- The caliper mounting holes are 16mm, not 14mm like the B6 knuckle. You have two options- shim the caliper mounting holes or drill the knuckle. Given that the knuckle is aluminum and I didn't feel the mounting holes would support a loss of 2mm, I shimmed the calipers. The calipers will have to be held to the knuckle via a bolt and a nut since the caliper will be mounted on the inboard side of the knuckle (vs. the outboard side for the stock carrier mount).

Rotors
While there are a variety of custom rotors available, based on my searching there are few OEM applications that will work:

330mm: W203 (2000 - 2007) Mercedes Benz C230 Sport (must be the sport version, the non-sport does not have the larger rotors). The only downside is that these rotors came cross-drilled from the factory and therefore all replacement rotors will be the same.

• Part numbers- Centric: 121.35086, EBC: 725, Raybestos: 980521
• Caveats- center hub diameter must be increased by 1mm, lug bolt holes must be drilled out to 14mm, rotor offset not perfect- live with it or change caliper/knuckle thickness to center caliper on rotor
• Other possibilities- one of the links below indicates the Volvo S60R/V70R rotor works with a bolt pattern re-drill and doesn't require the modification to the center bore. Part numbers: C-TEK Standard Rotor 121.39035
  Power Slot Slotted Brake Rotor 126.39035SL
  Power Slot Slotted Brake Rotor 126.39035SR
  SportStop XDrilled & Slotted Rotor 127.39035L
  SportStop XDrilled & Slotted Rotor 127.39035R
  SportStop XDrilled Brake Rotor 128.39035L
  SportStop XDrilled Brake Rotor 128.39035R

350mm: Mercedes Benz ML55

• Part numbers- no idea since I went with 330mm
  
• Caveats- no idea since I went with 330mm

Brake Lines
Any of the major big brake manufacturers or B7 RS4 lines will work, order from them or have some custom made at your local hydraulic shop. The caliper side fitting is different from the stock line, not to mention it will need to be longer. Stop Tech sells the B7 RS4 lines alone, part number: 950-33005. ECS also sells some.

Hardware
You'll need some quality hardware to hold the calipers to the knuckles. JHM Motorsports sells some for $65, or you can source your own as I did. Here's a list of McMaster part numbers:

• 90854A267 Metric Zinc Yellow plated Steel Hex Head Cap Screw, Class 10.9, M14 Size, 50mm L, 2mm Pitch, Fully Thread, Packs of 5 (you may want to step up to a 55mm bolt to ensure enough thread engagement with washers, order 1)
• 93475A300 Metric DIN 125 18-8 Stainless Steel Flat Washer, M14 Screw Size, 28mm OD, 2.3mm-2.7mm Thick, Packs of 25 (order 1)
• 92148A221 Metric 18-8 Stainless Steel Split Lock Washer, M14 Screw Size, 24.1mm OD, 2.85mm min Thick, Packs of 25 (order 1)
• 92497A550 Metric Zinc-Yellow plated Class 10 Steel Hex Nut, M14 Size, 2mm Pitch, 22mm Width, 11mm Height, Packs of 10 (order 1)
• only if you're shimming the caliper: 6679K18 Metric Steel-Backed PTFE-Coated Bronze Bearing, for 14 mm Shaft Diameter, 12 mm Length (order 4)

Obviously you can source hardware in a myriad of places, I'd recommend 10.9 or higher. You may want to use Loctite on the bolts as well.

Wheel Fitment
My 330mm setup barely clears my OEM 17" Avant Sport wheels, JHM claims fitment on most 17s (I believe it). I tried my old 16" winter wheels, no chance of that.

Links
http://www.audizine.com/forum/showth...de-what-rotors
http://forums.audiworld.com/showthread.php?p=18110929
http://forums.quattroworld.com/a4b6/msgs/35723.phtml
http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthrea...iper-Questions
http://jhmotorsports.com/shop/catalo...9d72e81b111a40

Sources for Parts
My intent in providing part numbers is so you can use teh internets to find the best deal. For the calipers, I recommend using any of the existing junkyard search engines, such as car-part.com.

My Setup/Notes/Pix
The install was straight forward, modifying the rotor wasn't hard. Getting the caliper centered over the rotor was a bit of trial and error, I elected to grind down the caliper mounting ears since there was more material to work with on the caliper than on the knuckle.

After install and bedding, the stopping power is unreal...even with the stock Touareg pads in place (they look to be semi-metallic). No complaints.

Now for pix:

Before:




After:




C230 Sport rotors vs. stock 1.8T:


Calipers + hardware (Coke can for size reference...):


Caliper to rotor clearance, before modifications:

[kristokes]

Thanks for the write-up

[vhstejskal]

Great writeup and the picture with the calipers next to the Coke can is awesome...

[drjonez]

Thanks.

I put the Coke can in there for some sort of size reference. Remember those are the 4 pots too....the 6 pots are just massive.

[BARRY]

Thanks.

I put the Coke can in there for some sort of size reference. Remember those are the 4 pots too....the 6 pots are just massive.

can you show how little clearance you have with the 17inch sport avant wheels?

what about 2002-03 17inch sport quattro sedan wheels? do you know if the 6caliper 330mm's have the same clearance?

[drjonez]

can you show how little clearance you have with the 17inch sport avant wheels?

Hard to do. I'm on the winter setup and use spacers. The lack of clearance is from the outside of the caliper to the inside of the wheel (that's why there's that machined section on the caliper).

what about 2002-03 17inch sport quattro sedan wheels? do you know if the 6caliper 330mm's have the same clearance?

Those wheels will fit. I know others have done the same setup, all sport wheels seem to fit.

No idea on the 6 calipers, but I would venture to guess fitment will be the same.

[SleeperAvant]

Wow nice write-up!

[dougyfresh]

Hard to do. I'm on the winter setup and use spacers. The lack of clearance is from the outside of the caliper to the inside of the wheel (that's why there's that machined section on the caliper).

With the wheel spokes?

What size spacers are you using on those wheels? I use those wheels in the winter too. New centercaps as the tire place that installed my winter tires destroyed the centercaps



Do you also have pictures of what the centered caliper looks like and the amount of material removed from the caliper mounts?

[drjonez]

With the wheel spokes?

Yessir.

What size spacers are you using on those wheels? I use those wheels in the winter too. New centercaps as the tire place that installed my winter tires destroyed the centercaps

No need for spacers, I just use them to make it look better. ;)

Do you also have pictures of what the centered caliper looks like and the amount of material removed from the caliper mounts?

Nope, didn't take those. :(

[BARRY]

you forgot to write that you need to open up the center bore of the rotor 1-2mm. i forgot to do this, and really screwed up my rotors as they were touching my caliper as i attempted to drive down the street.

if you don't do this, the rotor will wobble on the center hub, when induced with the weight of the car.

also, you could use the JHM hardware kit, or build your own. your setup doesn't look to be using the 1mm spacer that slips into the caliper mounting hole to take up the slack of the difference in size of each mounting hole. you can buy this aftermarket, i believe its called a machined bearing. not exactly sure of the sizing though. you can find there on audizine.

[drjonez]

It is there, read carefully.

...
330mm: Mercedes Benz C230 Sport (must be the sport version, the non-sport does not have the larger rotors). The only downside is that these rotors came cross-drilled from the factory and therefore all replacement rotors will be the same.

• Part numbers- Centric: 121.35086, EBC: 725, Raybestos: 980521
• Caveats- center hub diameter must be increased by 1mm, lug bolt holes must be drilled out to 14mm, rotor offset not perfect- live with it or change caliper/knuckle thickness to center caliper on rotor
• Other possibilities- one of the links below indicates the Volvo S60R/V70R rotor works with a bolt pattern re-drill and doesn't require the modification to the center bore.

[andrew.k]

Great write-up & set-up.

What did the Mercedes Sport rotors cost you?
Did you go OEM?

I'm considering doing this once my brakes need to be changed.

[drjonez]

I used Centric replacement rotors. I have ~12k on them so far....no issues.

I can't fathom what OEM replacements would cost.

[moyenecorniche]

Great write up... Finally a sensible and cost effective end run....
BTW, what did you do with the rear set up...?
Did you leave it stock or upgrade also...?

I may have missed this or but as far as the caliper brackets, did you get a set thru one of the A-Zine merchants or went a different route..?
The reason I ask is from the pics, I'm uncomfortable with the rotors not being centered in the Calipers, A smalll detail but which may have adverse effects when pushing the car in the twisties...

Anyway a great plan and a few mods for my application will be the only detail...

Edit on 1-16-2022..
Since Ive commented here, the following link is my BBK DIY from the Q7 which uses the Brembo 18z's.. Hope it helps someone..
https://www.audizine.com/forum/showt...K-from-2010-Q7

[drjonez]

Great write up... Finally a sensible and cost effective end run....
BTW, what did you do with the rear set up...?
Did you leave it stock or upgrade also...?[/QUOTE]

I've got B6 S4 rears. The whole system works fantastic.

I may have missed this or but as far as the caliper brackets, did you get a set thru one of the A-Zine merchants or went a different route..?
The reason I ask is from the pics, I'm uncomfortable with the rotors not being centered in the Calipers, A smalll detail but which may have adverse effects when pushing the car in the twisties...

Anyway a great plan and a few mods for my application will be the only detail...

There are no caliper brackets, they are integral to the caliper.

I too was uncomfortable with the rotors not being centered, hence my discussion about how to remedy it.

[moyenecorniche]

I've got B6 S4 rears. The whole system works fantastic.

Ahhh...!!! thanks, as I just wrote the last post edit I was thinking what do I do for the rear since it is a needed upgrade regardless of what some people think. I prefer to stop on my own rather than experiment with Physics and stationary objects..
One other Q...Your mods on your A4 are at what performance levels if I may ask ?

mine is a daily driver so FrankenTurbo and Stage II will be the max as reliability is key..

[drjonez]

Edited my previous post.

Mods are in my profile, the car is my DD. I have 12k on the setup since I installed, no issues.

[incubusfc]

Has anyone tried to get the rear Cayenne/Touareg calipers to fit on the A4? I've never taken my calipers off, but could you use a different front brake for the rears with this? I haven't looked much into this set up because it seems unbalanced. But that's just me being picky.

[drjonez]

I'm using S4 rear brakes with the Touareg fronts.

[dan5171]

Just wanted to update this thread, the Volvo V70R rotors fit. Installed mine tonight. I used a die grinder to open up the bolt holes, no machining the rotor like the MB rotors!!!

[drjonez]

Just wanted to update this thread, the Volvo V70R rotors fit. Installed mine tonight. I used a die grinder to open up the bolt holes, no machining the rotor like the MB rotors!!!

Good info. Just to be clear, the "machining" you did is no different than the "machining" required for the MB rotors.

Was the V70R rotor centered in the caliper? Pix?

[AudiA4_20T]

Dr. Jonez! Solid thread as always

[dan5171]

Pix's to come, I did have to remove .080 off the caliper "ear" to move the caliper out further to center it on the rotor. Thats about 10 percent of the thickness of the caliper mount.

Just curious, how did you open up the center of the MB rotor?

[drjonez]

...Just curious, how did you open up the center of the MB rotor?

Just like you did- die grinder + carbide burr.

[dan5171]

Nice! You must have really steady hands and a great eye! I had a hard time keeping any sort of round shape to the bolt holes. I'll get some pix's tomorrow, just got home from work, too dark.

[drumnjuny]

great write up! thanks

[Charlie240sxt]

where is everyone getting the SS brake lines that fit the Touareg calibers and a4 chassy

[Charles.waite]

Get the B7RS4 Brake lines from stoptech. Says so in the first post.

Since I'm feeling generous: http://shop.achtuning.com/B7-RS4-OE-Sized-Brakes.aspx

The RS4 has brembo brakes thus they fit perfectly in the Touraeg/Cayenne brembos.

[Charlie240sxt]

Wow how did I over look that lol

[nefkntym]

Good info. Just to be clear, the "machining" you did is no different than the "machining" required for the MB rotors.

Was the V70R rotor centered in the caliper? Pix?

I just did this swap the other day with V70R rotors. The fitment inside the rotor is the same, so a little trimming to the ear on the caliper is still necessary. As for the bolt holes, as per Axis motorsport, they drilled them out with a 19mm bit. Those are pricey, hard to come by special order drill bits. I used a 3/4" drill bit instead since that is cheaper, easily obtainable from the hardware store plus I already had one. When you do the math, 3/4" is 19.05mm.

[gottaBdope]

I just did this swap the other day with V70R rotors. The fitment inside the rotor is the same, so a little trimming to the ear on the rotor is still necessary. As for the bolt holes, as per Axis motorsport, they drilled them out with a 19mm bit. Those are pricey, hard to come by special order drill bits. I used a 3/4" drill bit instead since that is cheaper, easily obtainable from the hardware store plus I already had one. When you do the math, 3/4" is 19.05mm.

Photos of your install? I know OP said it all, I just enjoy seeing new pics!

[incubusfc]

19mm is .7480 inches. If you have access to bits in 100'ths of an inch like I do. Good call on the 3/4"

[sa_seahawker]

subscribed for future reference

[BARRY]

does anybody recall the brake company that was planning to produce 330mm slotted 2 piece rotors for this setup? i can't seem to find the info anywhere.

[CleverA4Name]

Was it JHM?

[boostedAvant]

This is neat. Looks like a solid option that still allows for wheel fitment.

[nefkntym]

Drjonez, you have had these for a while. Have you found a good low dust pad to recommend.

The braking on these 4 pots are amazing, just not as many pad options as the 6 pots.

[drjonez]

I'm still on the OEM Touareg pad- minimal dust, great performance.

[nefkntym]

I'm still on the OEM Touareg pad- minimal dust, great performance.

Good info, but OEM Brembo pad or OEM Pagid pad?

[drjonez]

They're Brembos.