TipTronic to Manual Transmission Swap

[drjonez]

I finished the TipTronic to manual transmission swap. I used an 0A3 6 speed out of a 2005 S4, all the parts bolted right up to my 2003 1.8T. Below are my notes and information for the swap.

General Notes

• Get the Bentley manual. Read it, there’s plenty of great information on transmission removal/installation.
• Reference Biketsai's write-up: http://www.audizine.com/forum/showth...ual-Conversion or http://www.audizine.com/forum/showth...ap-in-progress
• You can use parts from any B6 or B7- sedan, avant, or cabriolet.
• You can use a manual transmission dating back to the B4, but you’ll have to swap tail housings and front axle stubs.
• You CANNOT use the rear diff or driveshaft from a B4 or B5.
• There are two different methods of mounting the rear of the manual transmissions- the “side mounts” similar to what are used on the TipTronic (5 speed) and a crossmember (6 speed).
• The TipTronic trans is HUGE. The difference in size between it and the 0A3 is astounding. Removing the TipTronic is a pain because of its size (follow the Bentley!).
• The size of the TipTronic is the reason for the difference in downpipes- the TipTronic downpipe is pushed farther to the passenger side. Of course, this interferes with the 6 speed transmission crossmember so you’ll need to rework your downpipe or get one from a manual transmissioned car.
• You can remove front CV halfshafts without removing any suspension members (at least for the 1.8T...).
• You could add the clutch pedal and smaller brake pedal to the auto trans pedal bracket, the bracket is the same.
  
  
  
  
• The pedal bracket is held in place by 2 bolts through the brake master cylinder/booster and 1 bolt up into the dash.
• You don't need to remove the brake master cylinder/booster in order to run the clutch line, it just takes some wiggling.
• the B5 method of using a 43mm bearing in the middle of the flywheel as a pilot bearing works, though its ability to stay in place will depend on your flywheel material. The steel FW with my FX700 was a touch over 43mm, I tack welded the bearing in place. Or you can get a 2.8 (probably 3.0 as well...) pilot bearing and trim it down to fit after removing the torque convertor bushing. Details here: http://www.audizine.com/forum/showth...=1#post6362409

Module Recoding
3 modules need to be recoded from auto to manual: ECU, ABS and cluster. You cannot recode a module when it has a fault, therefore it would be best to recode BEFORE removing the transmission and TCU. At a minimum, you need the TCU and the gear selector switch installed. You'll need to recode the ABS module first, as it seems to find fault with everyone else, then the ECU, then the cluster. With no recoding, the ABS/ESP lights are on and non-functional, ECU and cluster throw codes for the missing TCU. With cluster and ECU recoded, the ABS module gets more angry and flashes the brake light. You can recode the cluster at any time. Without recoding the ECU, any wheel speed above 0 it sets idle to ~1300 or so. Without the clutch switch, a recoded ECU will not have cruise control.

• To recode ABS for the manual transmission, use the information on Ross Tech's site. Use the appropriate login code for your DESIRED coding (i.e. login as if it were a manual transmission), change the coding of the module and perform the steering angle sensor calibration. Here's the text from Ross Tech's site should they ever go down:
  Login
  
  Note #1: After Login has been carried out you need to recode the control module.
  Note #2: Special Login 07499 is used for 6-Cylinder Diesel Engine with 1LG Brakes and Multitronic.
  Note #3: The Production Codes (PR-Code) such as 1LX can be found on a Sticker near the Spare Tire Well and/or the 1st Page of the Service Manual. Click here to see an Example of a Sticker.
  
  0?xxx: Chassis
  9 = Audi A4
  0x?xx: Brakes
  2 = Brembo 17" (PR-1LJ)
  3 = FN3 16" (PR-1LT/1LF)
  4 = HP2 16" (PR-1LX)
  4 = FNR 16" (PR-1LA/1LG)
  5 = FN3 15" (PR-1LB/1LE)
  6 = C54 (PR-1LZ)
  0xx?x: Engine
  5 = 4/6 Cyl. Diesel
  7 = 4/5 Cyl. Gasoline
  9 = 6/8 Cyl. Gasoline
  0xxx?: Transmission
  5 = Manual
  7 = Automatic (5HP19, 5HP24, AG4, AG5)
  9 = Multitronic (01J, CVT)
  
  Coding
  
  Note #1: Coding is accepted after a specific login has been carried out.
  Note #2: After successful coding the steering angle sensor basic setting needs to be carried out.
  Note #3: Special Coding 04499 is used for BFB Engine with 1LT Brakes and Multitronic.
  Note #4: The Production Codes (PR-Code) such as 1LX can be found on a Sticker near the Spare Tire Well and/or the 1st Page of the Service Manual. Click here to see an Example of a Sticker.
  Note #5: In some cases, you will need to enter a non-zero WorkShop Code, such as 12345.
  
  0?xxx: Chassis
  4 = Audi A4
  0x?xx: Brakes
  1 = C54 (PR-1LZ)
  2 = FN3 15" (PR-1LB/1LE)
  3 = HP2 16" (PR-1LX)
  3 = FNR 16" (PR-1LA/1LG)
  4 = FN3 16" (PR-1LT/1LF)
  5 = Brembo 17" (PR-1LJ)
  0xx?x: Engine
  5 = 4/6 Cyl. Diesel
  7 = 4/5 Cyl. Gasoline
  9 = 6/8 Cyl. Gasoline
  0xxx?: Transmission
  5 = Manual
  7 = Automatic (5HP19, 5HP24, AG4, AG5)
  9 = Multitronic (01J, CVT)
  
  Basic Setting
  Steering Angle Sensor (G85) Calibration
  
  Before starting the procedure turn the steering wheel at least 30 ° left and back straight ahead.
  
  [Meas. Blocks - 08]
  Group 005 Field 1 (Steering Angle Sensor -G85-)
  Specification: 0.0 °
  Tolerance (when straight): ±5.0 °
  [Done, Go Back]
  
  [Login - 11]
  Enter 40168
  [Do It!]
  
  [Basic Settings - 04]
  Group 001
  [Go!]
  [Done, Go Back]
  
  [Fault Codes - 02]
  All fault codes should have disappeared.
  [Done, Go Back]
  
• To recode cluster for the manual transmission, within VCDS goto adaptation channel 60, subtract 2 from whatever value you have there.
• To recode the ECU for the manual transmission, change the coding to 16701. You may need to login (I didn't have to), use 11463.
  01 - Engine
  
  Coding - 07
  
  00XXX - The first two digits apply to the country.
  *16 is the only available option for those in the USA
  
  XX0XX - The third digit codes the ECU for what drive and options you have
  *0 states FWD with ABS
  *2 states Quattro with ABS
  *5 states FWD with Anti-Slip Regulation/Electronic Stability Program (ASR/ESP)
  *7 states Quattro with ESP
  
  XXX0X - The fourth digit states which transmission you are equipped with
  *0 is for 5 speed manual transmission
  *5 is for 01V automatic transmission
  
  XXXX0 - The last digit will state which vehicle the ECU is installed in.
  *1 states installed in Audi A4
  
  
  

TipTronic Shifter Neutral Start Switch Defeat

• The transmission control unit (TCU, TCM) is located under the ECU in the driver cowl area (under the wipers)
  
  
  
  
• Under the transmission control module is the relay that must be removed and jumpered to allow the car to start (the "proper" name of the relay escapes me right now...).
  
  
  

Reverse Lights
The reverse lights need to be wired from the switch on the manual trans to pins 7 and 8 on the TipTronic multifunction switch wiring harness. walky_talky20 has a great write-up for the B5 here: http://www.audizine.com/forum/showth...a-5-speed-swap

Multifunction switch with reverse lights wired in:


Wiring connections to the switch are dependent on the transmission you use, the 0A3 transmission I used has a two pin connector for the reverse light switch:



Clutch Switch
You will want to wire up a clutch switch, without it you will be testing your rev limiter should you disengage your clutch while cruise is on as well as have an RPM jump on fast shifting and not having cruise control with the ECU properly coded. The B6 uses two switches on the clutch, the one that is needed to fix the previously listed problems is part number: 8E0 927 189B and resides next to the brake switch. walky_talky20 has a great write-up for the B5 (but it all applies to the B6 as well) here it is: http://www.audizine.com/forum/showth...Swap-%28DBW%29 What you’re doing is adding a wire to pin 39 on the ECU, running that wire to one terminal of the clutch switch and running the other terminal of the clutch switch to a tap off the black/brown wire of the brake pedal switch. Yes, pix with hands in them suck.

Pin 39:


Disassembling the ECU connector:


Pin 39 removed:


Wire added to pin 39:


ECU connector reassembled:


Pin 39 wire run to clutch switch, clutch switch tapped into brake switch:



Parts needed to complete the swap:

• brake/clutch pedals
• clutch master cyl
• clutch slave cyl (get an early B5 one, they're metal. The plastic one out of my donor '05 S4 was crumbling...it had 62k on it.)
• brake master cylinder reservoir to clutch master cylinder hose (6” of rubber fuel line would be fine)
• clutch slave cyl hard/soft line (get a braided stainless steel soft line, makes install easier)
• manual transmission (any B4, B5, B6 or B7 manual transmission will bolt up to the engine, tailshaft and front axle stubs need to be changed from any B4 or B5 transmission)
• manual transmission crossmember or side mounts (must match whatever manual transmission you used)
• manual transmission front CV halfshafts (must match whatever manual transmission you chose as used in the B6/B7 chassis)
• clutch fork (must match whatever manual transmission you used)
• throw out bearing
• shifter assembly/control rods
• flywheel/clutch disc/pressure plate (must match your engine)
• 43mm bearing for use as a pilot bearing (or the 3.0 pilot bearing, cut to fit)
• rear differential that matches final drive of the manual transmission you're using
• front to rear driveshaft (must match whatever manual transmission you chose as used in the B6/B7 chassis)
• manual transmission downpipe (or modify yours, substantial modification may be required)

[kristokes]

Thanks for the write-up

[drjonez]

Not a problem, it is all about sharing info.

[drjonez]

Tons of details added, I believe I'm done w/this DIY now.

[walky_talky20]

Very nice, doctor. The more swap info, the better. Huge fan of details. Thanks for the links too. My clutch switch and reverse light guides actually apply more the B6 than the B5. The drive-by-cable cars are a bit different.

Sounds like you might have got your reverse lights squared away, but if you still need that connector it's just chillaxin' here.

[drjonez]

Very nice, doctor. The more swap info, the better. Huge fan of details. Thanks for the links too. My clutch switch and reverse light guides actually apply more the B6 than the B5. The drive-by-cable cars are a bit different.

I noticed that as I was comparing your write-ups to my experience...

Sounds like you might have got your reverse lights squared away, but if you still need that connector it's just chillaxin' here.

Yup, I did! I thought I PM'd you....but I guess not. I found one of those standard 2 wire connectors in a box of other stuff...I just need to find some loom to put over it, looks tacky. I'll probably take care of that in the spring...

[Albertk]

I wish I could do this...

[Apraudi23]

Does anyone think the 03A from a B6 S4 will fit in to a B6 1.8t 5 spd? not sure if the driveshaft is a different lenght on the A4 tiptronic models.

[drjonez]

I believe the driveshaft and axles are different. Everything else is the same.

[Apraudi23]

Awesome so Im guessing if I get a hold of an A4 tip driveshaft and some S4 front axles I should be able to make this work. Did you use an S4 clutch when you did the swap?

[drjonez]

Awesome so Im guessing if I get a hold of an A4 tip driveshaft and some S4 front axles I should be able to make this work.

No.

Driveshaft and axles must match the transmission you're installing into the car.

Did you use an S4 clutch when you did the swap?

Nope. Any A4 clutch will work.

[quattroloco]

just found out today that i already have a 4:11 rear diff.
the 5speed automatic tiptronic if it has the code ETQ on the rear diff its already 4:11. 6speed swap here i come!

[Apraudi23]

You have me a little confused now. In the earlier message you said that the driveshaft and axles are different. Which driveshaft and axles will I need for my car to make it fit. I appreciate your assitance.

[drjonez]

just found out today that i already have a 4:11 rear diff.
the 5speed automatic tiptronic if it has the code ETQ on the rear diff its already 4:11. 6speed swap here i come!

Might want to double check on that...

You have me a little confused now. In the earlier message you said that the driveshaft and axles are different. Which driveshaft and axles will I need for my car to make it fit. I appreciate your assitance.

Your driveshaft and axles must match the transmission.

[quattroloco]

i did. with audi. the early b6 5 speed tips came in two ratios... 3.83 or 4.11. if your rear diff has the ETQ code on it then it is the 4.11 version. you never heard of that dr.?
it may only be a 3.0 v6 thing to keep the revs in the right range but its true. that particular 5speed tip is 4.11.

one more little nugget of info i pried from audi... the same 5speed tip driveline is also the exact same driveline used for 04-05 6speed manuals

[JUSADUB]

How much did this run you?

[quattroloco]

I went the parts car route... so not that much. less than you would ever think

[JUSADUB]

I went the parts car route... so not that much. less than you would ever think

I have been thinking about going this route.

[drjonez]

How much did this run you?

I parted out a 2005 S4....so I actually made $$. ;)

[hey4]

Does anyone know how to defeat the netural safety switch on CVT based car? The relay
395 crossed in picture above is not there. According to my research this swtich is built into the TCU when it comes to CVT transmissions.

[walky_talky20]

Starting circuit "with CVT":



Relay location (note the "01J" call out for position 4):



Looks pretty simple. You can either pull that relay out and jump it, or you can find the Brown/White wire at TCU pin 4, and ground it. If you want, you can send that through a clutch switch to ground for safety (highly advisable if you have other people drive the car / you ever want to sell it).

Disclaimer:
I, nor anyone I have known, has ever 5MT swapped a CVT car. Any and all wiring modification suggestions, are just that: suggestions. Please do not blindly follow this advice. Rather, please test all circuits yourself against a factory wiring diagram and be certain you know what you are doing. If your wiring modifications lead to the death of your car, or to the death of yourself, or if they leave you in a state in between living and dying: it is not my fault.

[hey4]

Sounds like exactly what I was looking for.
Yes, I'm probably going to sell the car if I get it running right, It's already all apart. There is no turning back now :)
As far as grounding the unit, I plan to remove the TCU once the swap is complete as I won't have any place to mount it or the need for it
For now I need it attached until I reprogram all the modules.

So in a couple different options sounds like the ideal way to go is to take this relay and ground it to the clutch switch? that way you can't start the car until you push the clutch in correct?

Also do you have any leads to where it is located, is this in the ECU box? I will check again but I only see two relays there

[hey4]

Swap complete two months later, it's no record but it works. Now my only remaining piece are the reverse lights. Can anyone help with those?
I have the sensor and the plug for it but not sure where to wire it to. The cluster of wires from the CVT TCU would be my first suspect but no idea which wires I should tap if any there.

[walky_talky20]

Here is the reverse light information I have. This diagram shows all 3 transmissions types:



Compare this to the previous diagram. It looks like the TCU's "Park/Neutral" output is on pin 4, and pin 3 serves as the "Reverse" output. It looks like the reverse lights are a secondary function to the Park/Neutral Position relay for the CVT application (it serves as a starter relay and a reverse light relay).

Assuming you still have that relay in place, it looks like the easy way would be to GROUND 1 side of your 5MT reverse switch, and connect the other side to TCU connector pin 3. BAM, reverse lights.

Disclaimer:
I, nor anyone I have known, has ever 5MT swapped a CVT car. Any and all wiring modification suggestions, are just that: suggestions. Please do not blindly follow this advice. Rather, please test all circuits yourself against a factory wiring diagram and be certain you know what you are doing. If your wiring modifications lead to the death of your car, or to the death of yourself, or if they leave you in a state in between living and dying: it is not my fault.

[hey4]

Great info but I don't see blue/ red wire on the cvt harness

[walky_talky20]

The diagram does not show a blue/red wire going to the CVT computer or the CVT itself. The Blue/Red wire runs from the PNP Relay to the Comfort Control Module (CCM).

So long as that relay still in place, you need NOT mess with the blue/red wire. Like I said, you just connect your 5MT reverse switch to ground on 1 side, then to the TCU connector Pin #3 (BROWN/YELLOW) on the other side. Done and Done.

If, on the other hand, you removed that relay to make the starter work - then you will interface your 5MT reverse switch wires between pins 5 and 7 at that relay block.

Either way will have the same effect. Now wire up some back-up lights like it's your JOB (son?).

[hey4]

Alright, I was reading that diagram wrong. There is a yellow/brown so I'll give that a shot today. Though I know there are two different styles of TCU plugs (round and square) the round one that I have doesn't have any wire going to pin 3 (at least what is labeled pin 3). I will report back, thank you very much sir!

[walky_talky20]

You are welcome. I've edited my above posts to add the following disclaimer:

I, nor anyone I have known, has ever 5MT swapped a CVT car. Any and all wiring modification suggestions, are just that: suggestions. Please do not blindly follow this advice. Rather, please test all circuits yourself against a factory wiring diagram and be certain you know what you are doing.

If your wiring modifications lead to the death of your car, or to the death of yourself, or if they leave you in a state in between living and dying: it is not my fault.

[hey4]

No luck, Is there a way to test the sensor?

[walky_talky20]

Test the reverse switch on your 5MT trans? Yes. You can do it with an ohm-meter. Or hook one end to ground and do it with a test light.

[SKiernan]

Hi, I am totally new to this. I have gone big turbo and installed a 517 TC but I think my tip tranny is eventually going to die so I will be having to do a swap.
I see a lot of codes thrown out regarding what matches what. Could someone point me to a link or post a list of engine codes and what 6 spd tranny's will match. I really appreciate
the write up it is going to help a lot.

[walky_talky20]

Your engine code is AMB. For a manual swap, you can pretty much use any of the Audi manual transmissions from 1988>2008. There are tons of codes, none of which really matter. There are certain gotcha's you have to watch out for depending on which one you choose, though. For example, your 2002 A4 uses a separate VSS while later A4's do not. Using a newer transmission without a VSS would create a potential problem for you.

[AudiA4_20T]

Hey Walky_talky,

any idea if these B5 parts are interchangable with B6:

•brake master cylinder reservoir to clutch master cylinder hose (6” of rubber fuel line would be fine)
•clutch slave cyl hard/soft line (get a braided stainless steel soft line, makes install easier)

Also, curious if B5 half shafts would work with a B5 trans up front in the meantime.

[walky_talky20]

- The reservoir hose should be the same. It's just regular straight rubber hose.

- The clutch hydraulic line is "similar". The line ends are the same, but the curvature is slightly different due to the chassis differences.
B5 line: http://www.ecstuning.com/Search/8E1_721_465_J/ES441687/
B6 line: http://www.ecstuning.com/Search/ES441678/ES441678/

It should be able to be re-bent a bit to work if needed. It bends reasonably easy.

- I too am curious if the B5 half shafts will work. I'm assuming that they would work fine, but I'm not 100%. The only possible issue would be the length. You would of course need to use either 2001 1.8T axles or B5 V6 axles when mated to the 5-speed because they have the larger outer CV joints like the B6 uses.

[SKiernan]

Thank you, what is a VSS? I just got a reply from Scott at Advanced Automotive he is asking whether I want a
"01E or 01X gearbox? The 01E is high horsepower. The 01X is up to 400hp."
I am assuming that the 01E is from an S4 and the 01X is from an A4.
I am thinking I will need the 01E as high horsepower is why my tip tranny is going bad. Are these correct assumptions?

Your engine code is AMB. For a manual swap, you can pretty much use any of the Audi manual transmissions from 1988>2008. There are tons of codes, none of which really matter. There are certain gotcha's you have to watch out for depending on which one you choose, though. For example, your 2002 A4 uses a separate VSS while later A4's do not. Using a newer transmission without a VSS would create a potential problem for you.

[SKiernan]

I have heard that the pilot shaft from a manual is too large to fit in the crank. Can you discribe the work around please? Or will it just fit?

Your engine code is AMB. For a manual swap, you can pretty much use any of the Audi manual transmissions from 1988>2008. There are tons of codes, none of which really matter. There are certain gotcha's you have to watch out for depending on which one you choose, though. For example, your 2002 A4 uses a separate VSS while later A4's do not. Using a newer transmission without a VSS would create a potential problem for you.

[AudiA4_20T]

- The reservoir hose should be the same. It's just regular straight rubber hose.

- The clutch hydraulic line is "similar". The line ends are the same, but the curvature is slightly different due to the chassis differences.
B5 line: http://www.ecstuning.com/Search/8E1_721_465_J/ES441687/
B6 line: http://www.ecstuning.com/Search/ES441678/ES441678/

It should be able to be re-bent a bit to work if needed. It bends reasonably easy.

- I too am curious if the B5 half shafts will work. I'm assuming that they would work fine, but I'm not 100%. The only possible issue would be the length. You would of course need to use either 2001 1.8T axles or B5 V6 axles when mated to the 5-speed because they have the larger outer CV joints like the B6 uses.

I'm guessing B5 pedals are totally different?

[RLB6]

I have heard that the pilot shaft from a manual is too large to fit in the crank. Can you discribe the work around please? Or will it just fit?

As long as the pilot bearing is from the 3.0 A4...with the cap cut off (using a dremel)...it will fit

[AudiA4_20T]

As long as the pilot bearing is from the 3.0 A4...with the cap cut off (using a dremel)...it will fit

you ready to get out of that tiptronic?

[SleeperAvant]

you ready to get out of that tiptronic?

I don't think he's ready to give up his most powerful and most respected tiptronic.