Why no V-8 for 2013 S5?

[AUDI A5]

Why is audi not dropping that beautiful new 4.0L twin turbo V8 into the '13 S5. This only seems like a logical choice as audi is putting this motor in the other late next year for us S6, S7 and S8. What a shame............ OH the humanity..........

[John P.]

Probably trying to keep that engine more upmarket would be my guess. Maybe it'll end up in a future RS5.

[A4A4A4]

Because it would most likely move the S5 up a class and up a price point.

[AUDI A5]

Because it would most likely move the S5 up a class and up a price point.

Though I dont disagree, so what. It is an S. What is a couple or even a few grand on a $60K car to begin with......nothing. I think everyone here would pay for that premium all day long. Just my .02.

[A4A4A4]

Though I dont disagree, so what. It is an S. What is a couple or even a few grand on a $60K car to begin with......nothing. I think everyone here would pay for that premium all day long. Just my .02.

I think you underestimate the price-demand effect in the automotive world. It's not a coincidence the A4 always outsells the S4 and sales volume of the A4>A6>A8.

[GSS5]

Though I dont disagree, so what. It is an S. What is a couple or even a few grand on a $60K car to begin with......nothing. I think everyone here would pay for that premium all day long. Just my .02.

if the 4.0TT was put into the s5, it would be too close to the rs5 price wise. it would also probably be faster than the rs5. that would make no sense from a marketing standpoint. and the s5 is not a $60K car. it started in 2008 as a $50.5K car and it's a $54.5K car today, not including options of course. to put the 4.0TT in the s5 would make absolutely no sense.

[AUDI A5]

I understand how it all works guys I have been buying cars for just a little while now. I have owned a couple different audis as well. The turbo 6 just doesnt do it for me I guess in a coupe. When I buy a S car is should be a v-8, especially a coupe. All the other cars you mention are 4-door sedans. So in my eyes, its not even in the same class. I understand your opinions, but really most S5's are in the 60K range when you option up.

I dissagree with the S5 and RS5 being too close. Just like audi is going to detune the S6 and S7 compared to the S8 by 100hp they could do the same thing here. Not trying to start anything. Just makin' chit chat about a very nice motor that should be in an S5 thats all. Take it for what its worth (probably not much

[GSS5]

why would they detune the v8 even more when they can use the supercharged v6 that still makes much more power than the current 4.2? it makes absolutely no sense to audi. and even if they detuned the 4.0TT to put in the s5 i'm pretty sure a bunch of tuning companies would come out with a remap, which with some bolt ons, could easily surpass the rs5 power output by plenty. then audi can kiss rs5 sales good bye.

i do prefer the 4.2 v8 over the sc v6. but with all the downsizing going on audi is not going to put v8s in cars that don't need them. after all the s5 still shares a platform with an a4. it is therefore is a tier lower than the s6,s7,s8 on the audi family tree. and as you said, the s6,s7 and s8 are big heavy family sedans and for that reason, they be better off with a v8 over a highly-strung v6, at least for performance purposes. i am willing to bet than a in generation or two, the s6/7/8 won't even have v8s. audi says they are considering four-cylinder engines for the next s4 and s5. downsizing is the name of the game.

here's a generalized summary of how audi is currently downsizing their engines:

3.2FSI V6 replaced by 2.0TFSI I4
4.2FSI V8 replaced by 3.0TFSI V6
5.2FSI V10 replaced by 4.0TFSI V8

^
that's why the s5 is getting the 3.0TFSI, not the 4.0TFSI.

[AUDI A5]

I know I know I agree with you. I am just not impressed with a v6T going in a car that should have a v8 thats all.

[FaceSmA5h]

Why "should" any car have a v8? The TT-RS (coupe) will be faster than S5, RS5, and the R8 and its not even a V6. It will also be more fuel efficient as well.

[SCUBADUDE]

the TTRS had better be faster - it's 700 lbs lighter then our S5's... and yes, the S5 does have base models @ 60K- this is directly off the Audi USA site:

4.2 FSI® Premium Plus with six-speed Tiptronic® transmission and quattro® $ 55,100
4.2 FSI® Premium Plus with six-speed manual transmission and quattro® $ 53,900
4.2 FSI® Prestige with six-speed manual transmission and quattro® $ 60,200
4.2 FSI® Prestige with six-speed Tiptronic® transmission and quattro® $ 61,400

[GSS5]

'Prestige' does not mean 'base model'. It's audi's way of saying 'top of the line'.


Sent from my iPhone

[GSS5]

Double post


Sent from my iPhone

[SCUBADUDE]

My point being that you can opt them up even after Starting at the $60K price for the Prestige model, even without those, the Lux and Guzzler tax make this a $62K car before more options.

[FaceSmA5h]

'Prestige' does not mean 'base model'. It's audi's way of saying 'top of the line'.


Sent from my iPhone

+1

Prestige is with almost all the possible options added (except for Drive Select, which is like another 3k+)

SCUBA: Base, meaning without the luxury addition amenities, would have this car in the 54-55k price range (MSRP). Again you are quoting off of MSRP. There are some people who pay MSRP, but that's a very small amount of people. Car can easily be obtained for Invoice or $500 on top of invoice.


Premium Plus Invoice (AT): 53, 202
Premium Plus Invoice (MT w/ Guzz):$53,375
Prestige Invoice (AT): $59,093
Prestige Invoice (MT w/ Guzz): $59, 167

[KrisHansen]

I'd rather drive fast in a smaller engine vehicle than going slow in a big block vehicle so 2.0T or 3.2 or 3.0 are best picks.

[Beast]

they goin soft

[AofC_RR]

CAFE and emissions regulations are the biggest factors. Not to mention the 3.0T which is supercharged by the way.... Outperforms the 4.2. It's easier to tune as well. Other than the charismatic sound of the V8 there's really no other logical arguement on why you'd keep running it. The 4.0T is much more expensive engine and yes as others have stated they're keeping it "up market"
I don't understand why everyone is all "I don't know why car makers keep putting smaller engines in cars" meanwhile smaller powerplants continue to outperform the larger motors they replace in every way. Get over it. It's not going to change anytime soon. In fact 2010 was the first year in history more 4 cylinders were sold in the US than V6s. And only a few years earlier V6s outsold V8s for the first time.

[FaceSmA5h]

CAFE and emissions regulations are the biggest factors. Not to mention the 3.0T which is supercharged by the way.... Outperforms the 4.2. It's easier to tune as well. Other than the charismatic sound of the V8 there's really no other logical arguement on why you'd keep running it. The 4.0T is much more expensive engine and yes as others have stated they're keeping it "up market"
I don't understand why everyone is all "I don't know why car makers keep putting smaller engines in cars" meanwhile smaller powerplants continue to outperform the larger motors they replace in every way. Get over it. It's not going to change anytime soon. In fact 2010 was the first year in history more 4 cylinders were sold in the US than V6s. And only a few years earlier V6s outsold V8s for the first time.

+1

I would argue/add, fuel cost played a huge role in the # of V4 out selling V6 and V6 outselling V8. In addition, the smaller engines are "usually" more affordable. Not the case with the S5 (whether V8 or V6), but for the most cars - yes.

[Auditude2.0T]

I'm a huge fan of the V8 engine, especially the sound but the new 3.0T is beast and stock for stock the S4 3.0T kills the S5 and it weighs less. 3.0T ftw.

[zerinA4]

Yup. Sound subjectively is the ONLY area the V8 has the 3.0T beat.

I'm a huge fan of the V8 engine, especially the sound but the new 3.0T is beast and stock for stock the S4 3.0T kills the S5 and it weighs less. 3.0T ftw.

[JimmyBones]

I would love to see the refresh S5 coupes keep the V8 and have the RS5 get the 4.0T even at the base 420 horsepower if it could beat the M3 but the high output 520 horsepower from the S8 version would blow the doors off the M3s. Just like the B7 RS4s did to the E46 M3s when they came out.

So many people here say the 3.0T makes more power than the 4.2 V8 but the numbers that Audi has posted say the V8 makes 21 more horsepower than the 3.0T. Also both the S4 3.0T and the S5 4.2 have the same 4.9 second 0-60 time posted. The curb weight difference between a S4 and S5 is not the big of a gap either with a manual S5 being 11 pounds heavier and an automatics weigh the same. The V8s are old technology too so most of the bugs have been worked out. I also constantly see people post the 3.0T is more tuneable but the supercharger for the 4.2 S5 from APR runs the same sort of 1/4 mile times as the fastest S4 3.0T user here (primetime) and this is all before JHM gets really deep into the S5s because the B6/7 S4s already have JHM superchargers rolling around. Just food for thought and I love me a V8.

[Bullwheel]

I would love to see the refresh S5 coupes keep the V8 and have the RS5 get the 4.0T even at the base 420 horsepower if it could beat the M3 but the high output 520 horsepower from the S8 version would blow the doors off the M3s. Just like the B7 RS4s did to the E46 M3s when they came out.

So many people here say the 3.0T makes more power than the 4.2 V8 but the numbers that Audi has posted say the V8 makes 21 more horsepower than the 3.0T. Also both the S4 3.0T and the S5 4.2 have the same 4.9 second 0-60 time posted. The curb weight difference between a S4 and S5 is not the big of a gap either with a manual S5 being 11 pounds heavier and an automatics weigh the same. The V8s are old technology too so most of the bugs have been worked out. We are going to leave the clutches and throw out bearings alone because both cars suffer from the crappy stock clutch design. I still have S4s that come in with stuck thermostats and have replaced a few engines because of it. The S4 Stronics are constantly getting new software to help smooth things out because they have issues and the guy that works next to me has had to replace one because it blew apart with 700 miles. Just food for thought and I love me a V8.

Why you need to replace an engine cause of a stucked thermostat...unless the driver is a complete idiot?
Do I drive a car when I see the coolant temp goes into red?

But back to the V6 or V8 issue:
Finally the V6 will be cheaper to tune....a small software update and the same motor spits maybe 150 more HP out....how long it will do that is another question.
You can do similar tune up on a natuarl aspirated motor as well, but it costs you 20 - 40K$! That is the big difference.

There is nothing better than the decent growl of a V8, but the future is a smal high end tuned motors with low weigth and high rpm....just check the GTR Nissan....blows away most of the super sports cars!
But as everything what is high end and on dope....it will be sensitive....it requires absolute quality...and that is finally the challange.
If Nissan can do it....why not Audi?
Many years before when the Muscle car area started it was taking a big motor and put it in a small car.
Now....it is taking a sporty looking car and put in a high tuned smaller motor on viagra!

Just look at Mercedes...went from a 5.5 compressor to a 6.3 natural aspirated motor.....and?....test show that the 5.5 compressor is the better motor...!

[JimmyBones]

Why you need to replace an engine cause of a stucked thermostat...unless the driver is a complete idiot?
Do I drive a car when I see the coolant temp goes into red?

But back to the V6 or V8 issue:
Finally the V6 will be cheaper to tune....a small software update and the same motor spits maybe 150 more HP out....how long it will do that is another question.
You can do similar tune up on a natuarl aspirated motor as well, but it costs you 20 - 40K$! That is the big difference.

There is nothing better than the decent growl of a V8, but the future is a smal high end tuned motors with low weigth and high rpm....just check the GTR Nissan....blows away most of the super sports cars!
But as everything what is high end and on dope....it will be sensitive....it requires absolute quality...and that is finally the challange.
If Nissan can do it....why not Audi?
Many years before when the Muscle car area started it was taking a big motor and put it in a small car.
Now....it is taking a sporty looking car and put in a high tuned smaller motor on viagra!

Just look at Mercedes...went from a 5.5 compressor to a 6.3 natural aspirated motor.....and?....test show that the 5.5 compressor is the better motor...!

You quoted me before I finished my editing but you would be surprised how many S4 and A6 owners do not pay attention and have locked up engines because the thermostats stuck.

Okay just to give you a example of tune-ability with prices for a basic 93 octane APR ECM tune
S4 3.0T gains +35 horsepower and +18 lbs of torque for $1,500
S5 4.2 gains +7 horsepower and +7 lbs of torque for $700.

So the S4 owner has to pay just over double what the S5 owner has to pay and that is not a 150 horsepower gain - sorry. Now I will say that APR lists the S4 as being measured at the wheels so one can assume it makes slightly more than the 362 that is posted because of drivetrain losses but both cars in stock form still have the same 0-60 time so they are still really close at this point.

[Bullwheel]

I'm sure we will see 3.0T with far over 400hp....and then 1500$ are ok to pay.

For 7hp I would even not bother or pay 700$.....it just makes no sense.

That's just my opinion...

[DeMOROlized]

I understand how it all works guys I have been buying cars for just a little while now. I have owned a couple different audis as well. The turbo 6 just doesnt do it for me I guess in a coupe. When I buy a S car is should be a v-8, especially a coupe. All the other cars you mention are 4-door sedans. So in my eyes, its not even in the same class. I understand your opinions, but really most S5's are in the 60K range when you option up.

I dissagree with the S5 and RS5 being too close. Just like audi is going to detune the S6 and S7 compared to the S8 by 100hp they could do the same thing here. Not trying to start anything. Just makin' chit chat about a very nice motor that should be in an S5 thats all. Take it for what its worth (probably not much

I'm sorry, but you lost a lot of credibility when the V6T a "turbo 6".

[Bullwheel]

And here a first evidence about the tuneability of the 3.0t:
http://www.autoguide.com/auto-news/2...to-425-hp.html

Stage 1 and 425hp! And it is not the end of the line.....
As soon more tuner have a similar product...the price will come down.

So much I love my V8 ....and I will not change....there we need to be quiet with +7 hp or spend as said big $$$$ for a compressor!

[Kim]

I do love the linear torque and even the sound of the V8 but as someone who regularly goes to the track, my biggest complaint about the RS5 is it still being nose heavy. I think a lot of people underestimate as well what a difference of 200 pounds off the front end makes in curbing understeer which is inherent in our cars.

[Huey52]

I don't think there's hate for the V8 per se. It's got a great sound and its Hp provides just what is needed for very high sustained speed. But for spirited daily driving an engine that provides low rev - high torque 'bursts' of speed, while maintaining good fuel economy, such as the s/c V6 provides is more versatile. jmho

I would love to see the refresh S5 coupes keep the V8 and have the RS5 get the 4.0T even at the base 420 horsepower if it could beat the M3 but the high output 520 horsepower from the S8 version would blow the doors off the M3s. Just like the B7 RS4s did to the E46 M3s when they came out.

So many people here say the 3.0T makes more power than the 4.2 V8 but the numbers that Audi has posted say the V8 makes 21 more horsepower than the 3.0T. Also both the S4 3.0T and the S5 4.2 have the same 4.9 second 0-60 time posted. The curb weight difference between a S4 and S5 is not the big of a gap either with a manual S5 being 11 pounds heavier and an automatics weigh the same. The V8s are old technology too so most of the bugs have been worked out. I also constantly see people post the 3.0T is more tuneable but the supercharger for the 4.2 S5 from APR runs the same sort of 1/4 mile times as the fastest S4 3.0T user here (primetime) and this is all before JHM gets really deep into the S5s because the B6/7 S4s already have JHM superchargers rolling around. Just food for thought and I love me a V8.

[zerinA4]

You guys need to hang in the B8 S4 forum to see what the 3.0T is really putting down out of the box and with mods. We've already got one guy at 12.0 in the 1/4 mile with 100 octane, ECU, intake, exhaust, and a pulley. All bolt-ons. There are plenty of stock 6MT S4s putting down high 12s right out of the box too. It's been shown time and time again that the 3.0T in the S4 at least is HIGHLY underrated from what Audi says it is. That should carry over to the S5 as well. Don't knock it till you try it as it's a wonderful powertrain.

[AUDI A5]

I'm sorry, but you lost a lot of credibility when the V6T a "turbo 6".

I apologize, 3.0 liter TFSI® V6, didnt know I had to be exact for you to understand. Listen I am use to big v-8's. I drag race on the side with mustangs that put down 10 second timeslips and sticky tires all day long with 400 hp N/A v-8's. The turbo 6 is a nice power plant, I almost bought a S4, but to me this car (a coupe) should have a v-8 thats all i'm saying. I know I have a a5, but that is not what I wanted. Could find one anywhere back when I was looking, had to settle for a5, and trust me I regret it. I am a power junky I guess. Didnt know this was going to blow up into a hater thread. How many people have said they wont buy the new S5 because of this, thats all. Have a nice day.

[DeMOROlized]

I apologize, 3.0 liter TFSI® V6, didnt know I had to be exact for you to understand. Listen I am use to big v-8's. I drag race on the side with mustangs that put down 10 second timeslips and sticky tires all day long with 400 hp N/A v-8's. The turbo 6 is a nice power plant, I almost bought a S4, but to me this car (a coupe) should have a v-8 thats all i'm saying. I know I have a a5, but that is not what I wanted. Could find one anywhere back when I was looking, had to settle for a5, and trust me I regret it. I am a power junky I guess. Didnt know this was going to blow up into a hater thread. How many people have said they wont buy the new S5 because of this, thats all. Have a nice day.

Uhm, it's not a turbo engine. It's a supercharged engine, hence the lost of credibility when you call it a "turbo 6".

[A4A4A4]

How many people have said they wont buy the new S5 because of this, thats all. Have a nice day.

I'd imagine a lot less than those who say they'll now finally buy an S5 because it has the supercharged 6.

[iconoclast]

the reason why i went with an s5 over the s4 is because of the v8 and the design/shape looks better on a two door than a four door.

[Beakerz]

V8 engines are going away....isn't it obvious? We'll probably see them mostly in fullsize trucks in the future and in a few cars here and there (Corvettes for example), but for the most part the V8 engine might as well be considered nearly dead. The trend now is smaller forced induction engines. Four- and six-cylinder engines with turbochargers or superchargers are able to make more than enough power while still returning decent fuel economy.

I grew up on V8 engines, so I'm a little sad to see them disappearing, but I'll be fine as long as I have some form of forced induction under the hood!

[Beakerz]

I'm sorry, but you lost a lot of credibility when the V6T a "turbo 6".

Playing devil's advocate here: I think maybe Audi lost a lot of credibility when the designated a supercharged engine as a "V6T"

WTF does the "T" stand for? We all know it's certainly not "turbo"....so it is pretty damn stupid.

[AUDI A5]

I stand corrected, I dont know why I was calling it a turbo, maybe because I have a 2.0T and the new v-8 4.0 twin turbo. I meant supercharged. I am the town moron . Its all forced induction anyway. I apologize for my ignorance.

Happy Thankgiving to All!

[mxrz]

Playing devil's advocate here: I think maybe Audi lost a lot of credibility when the designated a supercharged engine as a "V6T"

WTF does the "T" stand for? We all know it's certainly not "turbo"....so it is pretty damn stupid.

The T represents forced induction... That's what Audi will tell you.

[Beakerz]

The T represents forced induction... That's what Audi will tell you.

Yeah, obviously. But it still doesn't make any sense.

[Michael S.]

Hey Guys (and Gals, if there are any),

I think maybe I can offer an interesting perspective to this "discussion". For many months now, I have had a 2012 S4 Prestige s-tronic on order. One test drive a year ago was all it took to convince me that the S4 was the car I wanted. I love it's dual personality with ADS, I love the tractable V6 supercharged power whilst getting decent hwy gas mileage, I love the hi-tech dual-clutch gearbox, and I love its practicality with 4 doors and a huge trunk! None of that has changed in the months since I ordered mine, and I eagerly await its delivery in mid-December!

All that said, for the past two weeks I have been driving a friend's 2008 RS4... He blew up his left knee and needed to borrow my truck (automatic)... Darn! :) What a BEAST! It is an absolute hoot to drive, and it's one of the fastest modern automobiles I have ever driven! And the SOUND... Oh my God! It is simply sublime! The acceleration is amazing! I only hope my S4 is half as fast! The brakes are awesome! The 6-speed gearbox is quick and clean... And, the clutch is easy on both the left leg and the ego. I love this car! And, I refuse to fault anyone for feeling the same!

So, guys... you are all right! You ALL have awesome automobiles, regardless if they are V6T (yes, that is the LAMEST name ever for a Supercharged V6!), or the awesome 4.2L V8. And, valid arguments can be made for owning either...

Please consider this an olive branch from the V6T side... Can't we all just get along? ;)

Mike