Speaker/Amplifier Upgrade (Non-Bose System)

[BKLenny]

Hello all, I have done extensive research on this subject and there is very little info that I would call reliable. My questions are quite simple.

#1. If there are pre-amp outputs on the symphony stereo, is there a harness that plugs into the head unit so you can add an aftermarket amp? There are all kinds of harnesses to allow installation of an aftermarket head unit, but none that allow connecting an aftermaket amp to the stock head unit AFAICT.

#2. With the non-Bose system in an '01 Avant Quattro, there are only 6 speakers? One in each door and a tweeter in each of the front doors? No rear deck speakers or subwoofer?

#3. If I completely do away with the stock head unit and leave the harness unplugged (I am considering installing an Android Tablet in place of the head unit) will this cause problems with reading the code, or anything else?

Thanks guys, I appreciate the feedback!

[Seerlah]

I have a stock stereo systsem in a sedan (Symphony I head unit, non-Bose, 2 front tweeters, 2 front door speakers, no rear door speakers, and 2 rear deck speakers) with 2 10" MTX subwoofers in a bandpass enclosure and Kenwood amplifier. I had mine professionally installed. And no, there are no ports for things like RCA cables on the rear of the head unit. But I can pull my deck to see what exact wire he tapped for remote. Other than that, wire the amplifier from the battery with in-line fuse, run wire by grommet next to ECU box, under the knee kick panel, under the door trim, into the trunk (that is how I have mine). I left the stock system the way it is (minus iPod integration on rear of deck, snaked into glove box), and have the subwoofer box wired separately. Far from a Grade A system, but gets the job done.

[BKLenny]

I know it doesn't come wired with RCA outputs. But they are integrated into the harness for the Bose amp. There must be a pin out on the Symphony that allows for a harness to be plugged into the symphony to go between the Symphony and the car wiring to allow those RCA jacks to be used for an aftermarket amp installation. I guess I could try to find a pin out and wire it myself, but I would rather not.

[Seerlah]

That is how my iPod integration is hooked up to my deck. I am sure there is a harness on the market somewhere you are looking for. But as I metioned before, I had my amplifier tapped into one of the wires on the stock harness for remote. If you want to know which wire, just ask and I'll pull the head unit to take a pic for you.

Edit: I'm actually now rather interested to see how he wired everything (ie RCA integration). I'm going to go trace things down.

[biketsai]

I have the stock stereo setup with a 12" sub/amp. I used a level line in converter where it taps into the rear speaker wire to get an amp signal.

[BKLenny]

The line converters greatly reduce the quality of the signal though. I am looking to make the SQ better, not gonna fill my trunk with 20" subs or anything. I am certain there must be pre-amp RCA outputs that can be pinned out on the Symphony harness and converted to RCA jacks to run to an amplifier. I can pretty easily figure out which wire is the remote turn on for the amp, thanks for the help though Seerlah!

[walky_talky20]

The Symphony "non-Bose" system has an externally amplified rear system. The fronts are driven off an amplifier integral to the Symphony head unit. The rears are driven off an external amplifier which is integral to the left rear woofer. The audio signal from the Symphony to that rear amp is indeed "low-level". The wires at the rear left woofer's 10-pin connector would be as follows:

1 - 12V+ (constant) - Red/Blue
2 - Right Rear High Level output - Blue/Green
3 - Right Rear High Level output - Brown/Red
4 - Amp and Audio shield ground - Brown
5 - Amp Remote Turn-on - White
6 - Right Rear Low Level Input (+) - White
7 - Left Rear Low Level Input (+) - Yellow
8 - Audio Input Ground (common) - Violet
9 - Left Rear High Level output - Red/Green
10 - Left Rear High Level output - Brown/Black

*Note - the above is not just random info I copy/pasted from some place. I looked at a wiring diagram and cross-referenced to the sticker on the top of my 2001 Bose Symphony deck. So I feel it is very accurate, but as always - be careful and use this information at your own risk.

So if you want, you can unplug that 10 pin connector and toss the crappy woofer and it's crappy integral amp. Then tap into those 4 wires I highlighted above. The 3 audio signal wires you will wire into 2 RCA's (they will share the common ground) and the amp remote wire is obvious. Pretty simple. You can then drive the existing rear door speakers with your new amp, or install better speakers, a subwoofer, whatever you want.

Further, the Symphony deck also has provision for front pre-outs. I'm not sure if they are enabled unless you recode the radio to "Bose", but my guess would 'probably'. The bose deck is identical, just recoded to use only the pre-outs (and not using the deck's integral amplifier at all).

I hope some of this was helpful. But feel free to grill me with more questions if you like.

EDIT: Corrections based on Avant speaker layout. Wiring pinout is accurate for Avant "non-bose" only.

[BKLenny]

Thanks Walk_Talky! That is exactly the sort of info I was after!

I have the Avant so is the amp attached to the speaker in the left door? I assume so. I will also assume that those wires are the same color in the dash in the harness and I can use that info to trace the second pair of pre-amps. Then I can fabricate a harness!

[walky_talky20]

For the "non-Bose" systems:

On the Sedan model there are no speakers in the rear doors, just 2 in the rear deck. The amp is integral to the left one (driver's side).

On the Avant model there are 3 speakers in the rear: 2 midrange speakers (I'm assuming in the doors, I'm not familiar), and there is 1 "left rear woofer" to which the amplifier is integrated.

So I assume that is a sort of dinky subwoofer behind the rear panels in the trunk area or something. So you can get the signals there. Alternatively, you can get the "pre-out" signals and remote signal right at the back of the head unit if you like. And just run your own wires. Please note that I'm not so familiar with the Avant models and the speaker placements and such, so perhaps another member can confirm (or you can just crank up the base and find that woofer).

I apologize my previous post was more directed toward the Sedan speaker placement. Sorry for any confusion there. Good Luck.

[BKLenny]

I have 6 of the next 10 days off of work. No better time than now to start ripping my car apart! I will be posting updates with what I find. It is very odd that there is so little info out there on this subject! Thank you very much for all the help Walky!

[walky_talky20]

I've edited my original post for clarity (and correctness) based on the Avant speaker layout. I apologize, I sort of overlooked that when I went through the first time. The wiring pinout is accurate for the avant, just my explanation of the speakers and such was not. Good Luck.

If you want a diagram or anything, just PM me your email address.

[BKLenny]

I was just doing some work on the interior of the car (cleaning and such) and I noticed that the rear door speakers both have a Bose emblem on them, but these are the only Bose emblems I can find anywhere in the car. How can I tell for sure if it is Bose or not? The speakers do not sound real great, but I listen to screamo/post hardcore stuff mostly, so I guess Bose probably is not meant for that anyway! lol

[walky_talky20]

I will wager that screamo music isn't meant to sound that great anyway, but that is neither here nor there.

Anyway, on a Bose system, the LCD display on the Symphony will show "BOSE" for a second when you turn it on. The front speaker grilles are often damaged due to careless (reckless?) entry and exit of the front passengers. Their feet, in particular. The supply of "Bose" speaker grilles has run out, so the only replacements from the dealer are the plain "non-Bose" marked variety. So that could explain something.

The Bose option should be associated with an "option code" that is printed on the build sticker in the trunk. You can use this website to decode all the option codes you have to perhaps determine what you have there:
http://igorweb.org/equidec/Default.aspx

[BKLenny]

It does now say "Bose" when I turn the radio on, I guess I will have to pull a door panel off and have a look. Also, I don't have an option code sticker in my trunk, it is an Avant. Any idea where it may be on the Avant?

[BKLenny]

Nevermind, I found it in the spare tire area under the floor mat.

E0A = No special edition
1KD = Disc brakes, rear
3FE = Electric slide/tilt sunroof with sun screen/sunblind
F0A = No special purpose vehicle, standard equipment
T7F = 6-cylinder gasoline engine 2.8 L unit 078.2
1MU = Leather trimmed sports steering wheel for air bag system with Tiptronic
7G0 = Without preparation for VTS (vehicle tracking system)
3L5 = Electric seat adjustment for both front seats
1SA = Without additional engine guard
J0L = Battery 340 A (70 Ah)
0L2 = Electric throttle actuation
3NZ = Rear seat bench unsplit, backrest split folding
C1L = Alloy wheels 5,5J x 15 Offset 41
4UB = Air bag for NAR
1LB = Disc brakes, front
8GL = Alternator 120 A
3BH = Left exterior mirror: flat, adjustable from outside
7R0 = Without side lights
6G0 = DVD changer
6XJ = Exterior mirrors: automatically dimming,electrically adjustable/heated
5MG = Decorative inserts, burr-walnut
0G7 = Tiptronic
U1D = Instrument insert w/ mph speedo, clock, tachometer, trip odometer and additionalinstruments (voltage, oil temperature)
9Q2 = Multi-function display/on-board computerwith check control
4X3 = Side air bag front with curtain air bag
3Y0 = Without roll-up sun screen
G1A = 6-speed automatic transmission
5BQ = Wooden floor in load compartment with aluminum strips on sliding door entry
1AH = Electronic differential lock (EDL)
7X0 = Without park distance control
0YS = Weight range 17 installation control only, no requirement forecast
X9A = National sales program USA
8ZA = Without AM/FM reception
2K2 = Reinforced bumpers
4K2 = Radio remote controlled central locking "SZV"
5RW = Right exterior mirror: convex (US) large viewing field
1BA = Standard suspension/shock absorption
4R3 = Power windows with comfort operation
0JL = Weight category front axle weight range 11
M70 = 6-cyl. gasoline eng. 2.8 L/142 kW V6 5V LEV base engine is T7F
6R0 = Selector lever cover
5D2 = Carrier frequency 315 MHz
4GP = Windshield in heat-insulating glass withsunshield and viewing window for vehicleidentification number

I don't see anything about Bose in there.

I found this while searching: "On the back there will be 4 sockets, one is a vertical 10 way, three are horizontal and stacked one on top of the other, the lowest of these is the 8 way power ISO, in the middle is the 8 way speaker ISO, at the top is the 20 way mini ISO connctor.

If you have a plug in the centre section of these three (only 4 central wires will be in use if you do) then you have the half amplified system, if that position is unoccupied, then you have the BOSE system."

I'll give that a look as well!

[walky_talky20]

Yeah, looking at the back of the radio (and using the provided pin-out that is on a sticker on top of the radio) will be a sure way to tell how much of the system is amplified. From the sounds of it, you've got a fully externally amplified Bose system. It also sounds like previous owners were careless with ingress/egress of the vehicle, whilst also being perfectionists, so the front speaker grilles were replaced at some point with plain ones.

[jdshopay]

Are there any good options for upgrades on the bose?

[BKLenny]

I am going to try to squeeze these in the front doors:

http://www.amazon.com/Infinity-Refer...1822091&sr=8-7

and these in the rear doors:

http://www.amazon.com/Infinity-Refer...1822091&sr=8-1

Not sure what I will do about the woofer box in the trunk yet. Maybe these:

http://www.amazon.com/Goldwood-GW-40...1822687&sr=8-1

Because these are the only other 6.5" 2 ohm subwoofers I could find:

http://www.amazon.com/Goldwood-GW-40...1822687&sr=8-1

I will have to pull that out and have a look. I am not sure when I will get around to doing this, but I am hoping to find time early Dec.

[BKLenny]

I got the keys today to take the radio out and I found that all 4 plugs are there and have wires coming from them. I believe this means I don't have a full Bose system?



Any idea whether I still need to use 2-ohm drivers with the non-Bose system?