Motor mount vibrations... advice?

[a44mark]

I got no love over on Audiworld, so...

I recently replaced my motor mounts (034 street density), and snub mount (ECS Tuning), and can't seem to get rid of a rough vibration at low idle...

I searched and followed the advice I found in other posts and finger tightened the bolts and ran the engine for a while to center everything before tightening the rest of the way. Everything seemed ok for the drive up the street and back, but after a day of commuting it's shaking pretty bad at idle. I loosened the snub mount and recentered everything again and it seemed great for a day, but then the next morning it was rough again.

I'm pretty sure nothing is still loose, so does anyone have any tips for getting this right? When I installed originally, I had the car up on two jack stands. For the readjustment I managed (barely) to do it on the ground. I'm getting a little frustrated...

What am I missing?

[EBG 18T]

How many miles on them? Some claim they soften up after 500 miles.

Could your snub be coming loose an hitting again?

[diagnosticator]

The stiffer mounts will send more NVH into the cabin. No way around this. It is why the factory mounts are softer.

[a44mark]

This isn't just a slight increase in vibration - it makes the dashboard rattle when it's at idle. It smooths out when I loosen the snub retainer, so I know it's not the 034 mounts. I'm tempted to trim the snub mount down - it was definitely larger than the OEM mount (although I'm sure it is that way to remove more drivetrain slop, so that's why I haven't done it).

I've probably got between 500 and 1000 miles on them now. Are you saying they could be "settling" or something? Seems weird... The snub didn't seem loose the last time I adjusted it, but as I said above, it's larger size doesn't leave much room in the "cradle", so it seems very picky where I set it. Anyone have any experience with the ECS snub?

[Matt Devo]

This isn't just a slight increase in vibration - it makes the dashboard rattle when it's at idle. It smooths out when I loosen the snub retainer, so I know it's not the 034 mounts. I'm tempted to trim the snub mount down - it was definitely larger than the OEM mount (although I'm sure it is that way to remove more drivetrain slop, so that's why I haven't done it).

the snub mount bracket needs to be tightened in a position where it does not touch the snub mount on any side. This shouldn't be an issue with the stock bracket and any of the aftermarket snub mounts, save the Neuspeed one. The snub mount's primary purpose is to reduce front/back movement, not side/side or up/down - if it were, then you would want it touching the bracket on all sides (which is an option with the 034 snub bracket).

Also, be sure that all mounts are loosened (lower bolts on the engine mounts), then tightened with the engine on and at warm idle (ie, < 1k rpm), again being sure that the snub bracket isn't touching the mount. Ideally use a set of ramps not jackstands so the suspension is loaded.

[diztek]

I'd mess w the snub mount again. I have the same mounts and I get Zero vibration.

[a44mark]

Also, be sure that all mounts are loosened (lower bolts on the engine mounts), then tightened with the engine on and at warm idle (ie, < 1k rpm), again being sure that the snub bracket isn't touching the mount. Ideally use a set of ramps not jackstands so the suspension is loaded.

That's pretty much what I did... I don't have ramps, so I drove up on a couple 2x4's to get a few extra inches to wriggle under... My worry is that the ECS mount doesn't leave much room till it hits the bracket. I'll have another go tomorrow and see what happens.

[diagnosticator]

I sanded down the OD of my OEM torque reaction (snub) mount using a bench belt sander. Made a big difference in the NVH dept, reduced it a lot. But as already said, careful adjustment of the snub mount receiver on the lock carrier, will make a noticable difference. If you have a tip trans, the adjustment is a little different from the MT procedure.

[walky_talky20]

Another thing I would suggest (after all adjustments have been tried) is to perhaps try raising the idle rpm by 50 or 100 rpms. The vibration sort of finds finds certain resonance in the different chassis components, so changing the idle rpm can be really beneficial by avoiding that resonant frequency. I believe with vag-com you can adjust the desired idle rpm by 50 rpm increments. Anyway, just a thought in case you aren't satisfied with the adjustments. Good Luck!

[EBG 18T]

My worry is that the ECS mount doesn't leave much room till it hits the brackets.

Non of the snub mounts leave much room. That's part o th point.

[a44mark]

Ok. Tried again. Sanded a tiny bit (<1 mm) off to give a bit of room since there was virtually nothing to work with. Loosened the bottom bolts of the motor mounts, and the snub carriage bolts. Let engine warm up and blipped the throttle a few times to center everything.

After tightening everything back up and driving around the block, it's still smooth. Of course, this is what happened last time, so I'll see how it holds up after a few days of commuting...

[Nikoman]

Subscribed. I just got new engine mounts (under warranty) on my tip 06 and the vibration in the cabin doubled. So let me get this right. If I do the following it should reduce my cabin vibration:

- shave down my ECS snub mount about ~1mm to give more clearance to the cradle
- loosen the lower engine mount bolts, then tighten after the car in "D" for a couple of minutes
- tighten snub cradle bolts while in "D" to assure contact witht he snub while in idle does not happen

Does this all make sense?

[a44mark]

Well, mine is a manual, so I just let it idle in neutral. I don't know how the process may differ for a tip...

Definitely let it fully warm up though before doing anything. And you may or may not have to shave the mount - it really depends on how much room you've got to work with. I could barely move the carrier bracket 1 mm before I could feel it rubbing again, so I felt like it was worth it. But, as EBG 18T notes above, part of the point of the larger snub is to reduce the slop in the driveline, so I wouldn't do it unless you can't get it to smooth out.

This was the third attempt for me, and after 60 miles of driving to/from work, it's still smooth. Knock on wood, I think I finally got it.

[ANDROID184]

I sanded down the OD of my OEM torque reaction (snub) mount using a bench belt sander. Made a big difference in the NVH dept, reduced it a lot. But as already said, careful adjustment of the snub mount receiver on the lock carrier, will make a noticable difference. If you have a tip trans, the adjustment is a little different from the MT procedure.

How so? I have a tip 3.0 , that I have to do as well since I put the car in service position and it vibrated even after I paid the mechanic. Since I have
my car up on 4 jackstands, think i could just loosen the nuts and move the bracket till it doesn't touch the mount?.......sorry for thread jack

[blackfc3s]

Its kinda a tedious process in the fact that you have to rev the car and get it to operating temp, then make sure that the snub "cup" is not touching the sides of snub bushing itself. Its basically a rinse and repeat process if you have a lot of engine vibration. You also have to remember that because the bushing is a lot thicker than stock, its going to transmit more vibration to the cabin. Not a lot mind you, but more than a 100% healthy stock snub.

[IndianDrives]

The stiffer helps will offer more NVH into the holiday cottage. No way around this. It is why the factory helps are better.

[foley803]

I had a vibration that kept returning after installing the 034 street density motor mounts, I thought I was too dumb to adjust my mounts, but it turns out my problem was that my tranny mount was trashed:

(Screwdriver for dramatic effect)


My motor mounts had barfed quite a while before I bought the car:



Barely hangin' on



In addition to that, the 034 mounts took about 500 miles to soften up a bit as mentioned by ahh, someone, its too early to read stuff.

[foley803]

The stiffer helps will offer more NVH into the holiday cottage. No way around this. It is why the factory helps are better.

Lol, "holiday cottage" do you live in your car on the weekends?

Or you could just go back to the "factory helps"

All this technical talk is way over my head.

[diagnosticator]

I think "IndianDrives" is using a language translator. Cabin=Holiday Cottage :>) Compare "The stiffer helps will offer more NVH into the holiday cottage. No way around this. It is why the factory helps are better." With my post: "The stiffer mounts will send more NVH into the cabin. No way around this. It is why the factory mounts are softer." Machine translated: English>Indian>English, I am sure.

[diagnosticator]

How so? I have a tip 3.0 , that I have to do as well since I put the car in service position and it vibrated even after I paid the mechanic. Since I have
my car up on 4 jackstands, think i could just loosen the nuts and move the bracket till it doesn't touch the mount?.......sorry for thread jack

For tip trans cars, the snub mount bracket on the lock carrier/bumper support, needs to be adjusted with the engine running and the trans with Drive gear engaged, with the service and e-brakes applied firmly to prevent the car from rolling forward. This results in the stalled torque converter loading the engine mounts opposing the torque reaction from the rotational drag of the stalled TC. So, with the load applied to the mounts, position the snub bracket so that the snub is not touching the bracket ID around the snub. Since the OEM snub would touch the bracket ID regardless, that is why I sanded down the snub OD so that there was some clearance space between the snub OD and the bracket ID with the bracket adjusted with the engine idling with D trans gear engaged. Adjust the bracket with the engine and engine/trans mounts fully warmed up after driving the car for awhile. The engine and transmission mounts must be in good condition for the snub bracket adjustment to be effective.

[Charles.waite]

Since when have you had to get the car up to operating temp to adjust the snub mount? I didn't and it was just fine. Just let it idle a few seconds until it drops down from 1200 rpms, give it a few quick blips, idle for a few seconds, turn it off, tighten, done. Getting it up to operating temp shouldn't make a difference. Plus who wants to work underneath there on a warmed up car?

[diagnosticator]

Since when have you had to get the car up to operating temp to adjust the snub mount? I didn't and it was just fine. Just let it idle a few seconds until it drops down from 1200 rpms, give it a few quick blips, idle for a few seconds, turn it off, tighten, done. Getting it up to operating temp shouldn't make a difference. Plus who wants to work underneath there on a warmed up car?

On a tip car, idling with D engaged, and the TC stalled, the position of the engine on the mounts is slightly different with the mounts warmed up vs cold mounts. This is because the mounts are more compliant when warmed up vs cold. In addition, the snub mount must be tightened before shutting the engine off, or the engine shudder as it stops rotating can kick the snub bracket off of the adjusted location.

[Charles.waite]

On a tip car, idling with D engaged, and the TC stalled, the position of the engine on the mounts is slightly different with the mounts warmed up vs cold mounts. This is because the mounts are more compliant when warmed up vs cold.

That makes sense. Didn't consider the mounts' temperature and its relation to how the engine sits when cold.. Would a rigid mount (034 or stern) make a difference with that over a fluid damped OEM style mount?

[diagnosticator]

That makes sense. Didn't consider the mounts' temperature and its relation to how the engine sits when cold.. Would a rigid mount (034 or stern) make a difference with that over a fluid damped OEM style mount?

I think the 034 or Stern solid mount are even more sensitive to temperature vs compliance compared to the hydro OEM mounts.

BTW, for background info, the adjustment procedure for Tip B6/B7 A4s, does not apply to the B8, since the B8 Tip is actually in neutral when at a stop with the brakes applied and in gear. The trans reengages as soon as the brakes are released and the throttle pressed. This avoids the torque reaction loading of the engine mounts and the resulting transmission of NVH that occurs with a stalled TC on our cars.

[EErie B6]

I think the 034 or Stern solid mount are even more sensitive to temperature vs compliance compared to the hydro OEM mounts.

BTW, for background info, the adjustment procedure for Tip B6/B7 A4s, does not apply to the B8, since the B8 Tip is actually in neutral when at a stop with the brakes applied and in gear. The trans reengages as soon as the brakes are released and the throttle pressed. This avoids the torque reaction loading of the engine mounts and the resulting transmission of NVH that occurs with a stalled TC on our cars.

that's interesting... is it possible for a 2 footed driver to induce an accidental "neutral drop" scenario? I know it wouldn't be high rpm, but what about long term effects... especially when it has some miles racked up on it and it does not go from neutral to drive as quickly.

[foley803]

I think "IndianDrives" is using a language translator. Cabin=Holiday Cottage :>) Compare "The stiffer helps will offer more NVH into the holiday cottage. No way around this. It is why the factory helps are better." With my post: "The stiffer mounts will send more NVH into the cabin. No way around this. It is why the factory mounts are softer." Machine translated: English>Indian>English, I am sure.

Ah, I see now. It was too early for me to attempt to be a contributing member of society; I thought it was a poor attempt at humor.

I am a jerk.

[diagnosticator]

Ah, I see now. It was too early for me to attempt to be a contributing member of society; I thought it was a poor attempt at humor.

I am a jerk.

Naw, you are not on the hook here, not a jerk. I pointed it out because he used my post for his post. Reported .

[Charles.waite]

Ah, I see now. It was too early for me to attempt to be a contributing member of society; I thought it was a poor attempt at humor.

I am a jerk.

I wouldn't worry about it, I just completely skipped over the comment somehow. I must have a built in useless post filter or something. Saying the OEM mounts are better is making quite a few assumptions about what "better" is. They may offer more isolation from engine NVH but that isolation is a double edged sword. It also makes you lose some feel over shifting, and engine response. You know, while you are sitting in your Holiday Cottage, driving to work for instance...

[diagnosticator]

that's interesting... is it possible for a 2 footed driver to induce an accidental "neutral drop" scenario? I know it wouldn't be high rpm, but what about long term effects... especially when it has some miles racked up on it and it does not go from neutral to drive as quickly.

I don't know. I would think there is a priority for the brake over the throttle, if the brake is applied at the same time as the accelerator is pressed, the brake has priority. When I drove a B8, the engagement is very fast and not noticable unless it's is somthing being aware of happing.

[m3ph]

I got no love over on Audiworld, so...

I recently replaced my motor mounts (034 street density), and snub mount (ECS Tuning), and can't seem to get rid of a rough vibration at low idle...

I searched and followed the advice I found in other posts and finger tightened the bolts and ran the engine for a while to center everything before tightening the rest of the way. Everything seemed ok for the drive up the street and back, but after a day of commuting it's shaking pretty bad at idle. I loosened the snub mount and recentered everything again and it seemed great for a day, but then the next morning it was rough again.

I'm pretty sure nothing is still loose, so does anyone have any tips for getting this right? When I installed originally, I had the car up on two jack stands. For the readjustment I managed (barely) to do it on the ground. I'm getting a little frustrated...

What am I missing?

Hey Mark,

I have a similar problem. on my 2002 1.8QT 5MT. The car vibrates at idle. If the car is under load or anything above 900 - 1000 rpm, the car smooths out, you can barely feel the engine is running. Also when i drive and I am in a higher gear(low RPMS - bellow 2000 i get the same type of vibration.)
Dose this sound familiar with what was happening to your car?
If so where can i source a transmission mount for a 5MT?, i have only found this (http://www.ecstuning.com/Audi-B6_A4-...unts/ES436817/)

[Charles.waite]

^^

034 makes a solid replacement: http://www.034motorsport.com/chassis...s4-p-1062.html

From what you say though, it sounds like your engine mounts are on their way out. I have the exact same problem as you describe, and I'm pretty positive its the engine mounts. 034 also makes solid engine mounts: http://www.034motorsport.com/chassis...ers-p-772.html

As does Apikol: https://www.apikol.com/#Products,Drivetrain,156

[Staz]

i just installed stern street motor mounts .. vibrations the first few days were ridiculous and everything would rattle inside the car .. im at about 500 miles later and theyve cut down a lot .. hopefully theyll go down some more but only time will tell

[nofearhawk]

Hey Mark,

I have a similar problem. on my 2002 1.8QT 5MT. The car vibrates at idle. If the car is under load or anything above 900 - 1000 rpm, the car smooths out, you can barely feel the engine is running. Also when i drive and I am in a higher gear(low RPMS - bellow 2000 i get the same type of vibration.)
Dose this sound familiar with what was happening to your car?
If so where can i source a transmission mount for a 5MT?, i have only found this (http://www.ecstuning.com/Audi-B6_A4-...unts/ES436817/)

Stern and apikol have awesome billet replacements for the tranny mounts. Make sure you get the correct height one, more info can be found here:

http://www.audizine.com/forum/showth...e-running-this

[Charles.waite]

Stern and apikol have awesome billet replacements for the tranny mounts. Make sure you get the correct height one, more info can be found here:

http://www.audizine.com/forum/showth...e-running-this

Good point! I forgot about the Trans Mount height issue. Pure MS has both Stern Mounts (for 5-speed and 6-speed). You can actually tell the difference in the pictures they have. CLICK

[m3ph]

Thanks guys for all your help. I will order these as soon as i chance out my check valves. I ordered those based on some other threads that i read in regards to the 1.8t 5speed vibrators. :)

[a44mark]

Hey Mark,

I have a similar problem. on my 2002 1.8QT 5MT. The car vibrates at idle. If the car is under load or anything above 900 - 1000 rpm, the car smooths out, you can barely feel the engine is running. Also when i drive and I am in a higher gear(low RPMS - bellow 2000 i get the same type of vibration.)
Dose this sound familiar with what was happening to your car?
If so where can i source a transmission mount for a 5MT?, i have only found this (http://www.ecstuning.com/Audi-B6_A4-...unts/ES436817/)

Before I replaced the mounts, there was some vibration, but the biggest problem was a lot of movement in the driveline - if I hit the throttle hard, I could feel a clunk as things shifted and my shifting (manual) was fairly sloppy. After I replaced them, that's all gone - much tighter now. But with the snub mount, I just couldn't get it centered properly in the basket and it would transmit a ton of vibration into the cabin at idle. It got to the point where I couldn't stand it and would rev the engine when sitting at a light! Now, after 3 tries, it's nearly perfect.

[m3ph]

Could any of these codes be causing the vibration?

16840 - EVAP System: Very Small Leak Detected
P0456 - 002 - Lower Limit Exceeded - Intermittent
17536 - Fuel Trim; Bank 1 (Mult): System too Lean
P1128 - 001 - Upper Limit Exceeded - Intermittent
16795 - Secondary Air Injection System: Incorrect Flow Detected
P0411 - 002 - Lower Limit Exceeded - MIL ON

[Charles.waite]

Could any of these codes be causing the vibration?

16840 - EVAP System: Very Small Leak Detected
P0456 - 002 - Lower Limit Exceeded - Intermittent
17536 - Fuel Trim; Bank 1 (Mult): System too Lean
P1128 - 001 - Upper Limit Exceeded - Intermittent
16795 - Secondary Air Injection System: Incorrect Flow Detected
P0411 - 002 - Lower Limit Exceeded - MIL ON

The bolded one I had a while back. I replaced the PCV breather hoses, the elbow one and the shitty plastic 2004+ hose, (which I broke during a V C Gasket change, but it was already corroded halfway through) and the DTC hasnt come back. So if the leak is bad enough it could be causing the crankcase to be ventilated wrong and possibly cause a rougher idle, but its unlikely since the code says its a small leak.

The fuel trim likely wouldn't cause a rough idle nor would a SAI issue, as thats only active at cold start in order to warm us the catalyst.

[m3ph]

Thanks for your help Charles.
I don't have a rough idle. Its a constant 800 rpm. No bouncing up and down. even with the AC/Heat on.

I visually inspected this part, doesn't look like it's broken. Should i look somewhere else? Am i looking in the right place?

[m3ph]

I found this some where in the forum, i assume i would have inspect this entire set of hoses. right?