Piston rings or turbo seals (video)

[Flexcj5]

If I combined all my BS little issues and posts on here from the last year, it all leads up to this. Yesterday on the way to BFI Octoberfest I kick it a little to pass some idiot and boost spikes about 16 then I hear a grinding sound and pressure drops to about 7. Billowing out behind me is a massive cloud of blue smoke. From Greensboro to Cary NC I burned a quart of oil. From Cary back to Greenville SC I seems to have burned about .5 quarts. I was limping it home and getting into boost as little as possible.

It smokes under boost and on startup. Idle is getting rougher. I'll be doing a compression test today and calling AOA this week as the car has an extended power train warranty. Ideas, suggestions or random comments are welcome. I'll keep everyone updated.

Previous/ongoing symptoms:
-low boost
-torn stock dv
-oil buildup in every inlet and pipe
-oil consumption (1qt every 1200miles)
-PCV went out
-intermittent smoke under boost and on startup
-exhaust issues, running hot, exhaust smelled/sounded funny

Parts/Fixes
-upgraded DV (rev D)
-adjusted wastegate
-replaced N75
-replaced PCV with catch can
-found cat clogged, installed RAI DP




UPDATE: AOA is replacing the turbo under warranty.

[bman005]

that much smoke would indicate a turbo issue IMO.

[DRAKLORE]

I'm going to say without knowing your compression I'm going to assume it's your rings as I've seen that on a few cars, and oil consumption is a known issue. Though have you checked your rear PCV.... I had similar smoke when my rear PCV was stuck closed. And the same exact issue when I ran a block off plate on the front PCV
Good luck

[walky_talky20]

When the oil is dumping directly into the exhaust stream (ie: not through the combustion chamber), you'll usually get black smoke and lots of it. When my turbo went bad (massive journal bearing/exhaust seal failure) and dumped oil into the exhaust the smoke was decidedly BLACK, not blue.

If the smoke is blue, that is an indication that oil is probably being burned in the combustion chamber. Now that could be rings or valve seals or whatever, but with that much smoke, along with your information about oil in the charge piping, I'm leaning more toward a nice failure of the turbo front seal. Where the turbo is dumping oil into the compressor side of things.

The first thing I would do is check the turbo for shaft play: side to side and front to back. If it's leaking that much, I'll bet there's a good amount of front-to-back (in/out, longitudinal) play.

Also, what is all the racket that starts getting louder around 1:06? Car starts stumbling and a pretty clacky noise starts in. Ever checked the cam follower?

[Flexcj5]

Compression test update.
Pulled the plugs that were new 10k ago. They are royally fucked. Looks like a lot of carbon/oil buildup and firing very hot. Very little left of the electrode.





Test numbers:
1: 205
2: 200
3: 200
4: 205

I'm going to assume that its not the rings based on those numbers.

I moved on to step two, pull the hose off the throttle body and check for oil. Well damn, hose is full of oil and a little bit of grit. There's actually oil running down the inside of the TB.




I'm going to attempt to check the shaft play if I don't run out of daylight. Right now, I'm assuming I've lost the front seal on the turbo.

[derrek]

check if there's oil in your intercoolers to rule out the valve cover.

[Flexcj5]

If the smoke is blue, that is an indication that oil is probably being burned in the combustion chamber. Now that could be rings or valve seals or whatever, but with that much smoke, along with your information about oil in the charge piping, I'm leaning more toward a nice failure of the turbo front seal. Where the turbo is dumping oil into the compressor side of things.

Also, what is all the racket that starts getting louder around 1:06? Car starts stumbling and a pretty clacky noise starts in. Ever checked the cam follower?

Car ran rougher everytime I started it up. Check out the pics of my plugs. I have been replacing the follower every 20k. Checked it today while everything was apart. looked fine.

check if there's oil in your intercoolers to rule out the valve cover.

Lots of oil in the IC's.

I'm going to say without knowing your compression I'm going to assume it's your rings as I've seen that on a few cars, and oil consumption is a known issue. Though have you checked your rear PCV.... I had similar smoke when my rear PCV was stuck closed. And the same exact issue when I ran a block off plate on the front PCV

Rings were my first assumption as thats what I would start with on an N/A car. Compression is fine though so I'm going to the turbo seals as the culprit. Rear PCV seems fine, main PCV is an 034 catch can.

Thanks for the help guys. Anymore input is appreciated.

[derrek]

my guess is its your valve cover not your rings or turbo. I had the same problem lucky i found out what it was before i got a new turbo.

Here's a pic of how the pcv system runs threw are valve cover, all the passage ways are glued on. On mine the glue came a part right by where the pic notes exhaust turbo gas outlet. What is happening is every time you go into boost its sucking oil in from where ever the glue came apart at right into the turbo/intercoolers. To fix it i bought a Eurojet valve cover so i wouldn't have to worry about it braking again.

[mr shickadance]

his main PCV is a catch can.....soooo thats not it,

lots of oil in the IC is strongly suggesting that you have shaft play....also the sudden decrease in boost would/could be realted to shaft play....i would take it easy on the car or park it if you have the ability to run a second car

[derrek]

I have/had a catch can when i had this problem, that was my first step to try and fix the problem.

[DRAKLORE]

Because of the nature of these cars and the rear PCV, there will always be oil in the intercoolers. When I replaced my iC system their was maybe a Half quart of oil throughout it.. Maybe I should invest into the billet VC as well...

[derrek]

When my valve cover cracked, i was getting way more then the normal amount of oil in my intercoolers. The most i took out was 2+ quarts.

So i guess the question is how much oil was in your intercooler op?

[Flexcj5]

So i guess the question is how much oil was in your intercooler op?

Pulled the passenger IC and hoses. I poured ~4oz out of the IC and its piping.

[derrek]

hmmm was that after it was smoking a lot? Did your turbo have any play when you checked? You can always pull your valve cover off and blow in the passage way if its cracked or coming apart you'll be able to tell.

[Flexcj5]

Update:

Some shaft play in the K03. Mostly feels front to back with slight side to side play. Much less than I found when the turbo on my truck went out but its there.

I haven't pulled the valve cover because I don't have a new gasket for it. I guess it could be the root of this but I'm still leaning towards the turbo.

[derrek]

what ever it is i hope you figure it out soon

[DRAKLORE]

The valve cover gasket is reusable...
Did you check the play with a micrometer, sometimes that in and out can be deceiving and feel
Like side to side...

[DRAKLORE]

^^^especially when your compressor wheel is the size of a dime..

[Flexcj5]

Did not have room where I was working asI did as little as possible to get to the compressor wheel, nor did I think about MICing it.

Nice to know the gasket is reusable. Maybe I'll pull the VC tomorrow just to check.

I'm really just trying to get good documentation and rule out possibilities before I take it to the shop for a warranty claim. Never liked throwing parts at problems nor do I want anybody else working on my car any more than they have to.

[derrek]

any updates?

[bman005]

any updates?

X2

[A4_Joe]

one of your spark plug look fouled out pretty bad. Even tho compression reading is good doesn't mean there is nothing wrong with the cylinder wall. I had an issued with car consuming alot. Found fouled plug exactly like your and there was damage on the cylinder wall causing the oil to enter to cylinder and burning. Also compression test is good test but best way to check if the rings are okay is to perform cylinder leak down test. I would recommend performing cylinder leak down test. I have seen and worked on a lot of Audis and have not seen that much oil from the throttle body. Seem like you have a crank case issue or valve cover issue. Do this test and see how your car reacts. Start the car and open the oil filler cap, if it's hard to open you have crankcase breather issue even tho you have swap with oil catch can. It also could be valve cover having a internal crack causing all the excessive vacuum & causing oil to enter to intercooler pipes.

[WalkerT]

I am boosting at 23-25 so 16 should not be that big of an issue. Have to tried to block off your rear pvc? I am with DARKLORD on this. When I had my front blocked and not my rear it did the samething tons of smoke due to the sucktion from the tubro pulling oil out of the VC through the breather tube and rough idle. Just like when you open you oil cap during idle.




Better! :)

[DRAKLORE]

My SN has been murdered before... But never that bad lol

[Flexcj5]

No big update yet. I've talked with my dealer and AOA but haven't had a chance to take it in yet. With my bike getting a rebuild the a4 is my only ride.

After everything I cleaned out and changing plugs its smoking very little. My guess is that oil has to build up everywhere again.

[DRAKLORE]

Ruler of all

[Sprode]

Compression test update.
Pulled the plugs that were new 10k ago. They are royally fucked. Looks like a lot of carbon/oil buildup and firing very hot. Very little left of the electrode.





Test numbers:
1: 205
2: 200
3: 200
4: 205

I'm going to assume that its not the rings based on those numbers.

I moved on to step two, pull the hose off the throttle body and check for oil. Well damn, hose is full of oil and a little bit of grit. There's actually oil running down the inside of the TB.




I'm going to attempt to check the shaft play if I don't run out of daylight. Right now, I'm assuming I've lost the front seal on the turbo.

Turbo's don't have a compressor seal the way they have an exhaust seal. They use a labyrinth between the edge of the blades and the backplate, but it is all a squeeze, no replaceable seal. Sooo... it probably isn't that. I would assume you've lost something in the CHRA.

EDIT: I'm working with a turbo that is spitting oil as well. I am gonna end up replacing that sooner than later, but it is still behaving acceptably. Prolly gonna end up with a KOR sooner than later. Or maybe I'll just get a used ko3 :(

[Flexcj5]

Update:

Its been awhile and the car has been in and out of the shop a couple of times now. I've got to give credit to Import World in Easley, SC, Larry and James have really taken care of me so far. As of today, AOA has approved a new turbo, covered completely under my extended warranty. I'll be picking the car up later this week or early next week. Hopefully this fixed all my issues.

[Leo14]

Wow, ain't that nice. New turbo. Either way, if it doesn't fix it I'd still be happy.

"random comment" MY SPOON IS TOO BIG

[hemantpd1]

Update:

Its been awhile and the car has been in and out of the shop a couple of times now. I've got to give credit to Import World in Easley, SC, Larry and James have really taken care of me so far. As of today, AOA has approved a new turbo, covered completely under my extended warranty. I'll be picking the car up later this week or early next week. Hopefully this fixed all my issues.

Did the new turbo fixed your issue?

[aluthman]

Did the new turbo fixed your issue?

Moot point now. He yanked the drivetrain to build the motor with a larger turbo and is doing a manual swap.