S3 injectors VS RS4 injectors? And some pictures

[jibatnes]

Hi.
Im doing a Turbo upgrade on my car, and im wondering what injectors to choose?
Its gonna be a K04 upgrade size probably, hoping to develop 320hp in the engine.
Any ideas on this? What is the difference between the two?
Have been trying to search the forum to find out but nothing precise to be found :)
Here are some pictures of my car btw, still building alot on this :) Thread about car soon to be updatet :)

[Tanner]

No idea but I your avant looks pretty damn sweet.

[viziers]

The difference between the 2 are as follows

S3
The S3 flows more than stock and most importantly it uses the correct spray pattern so no black smoke and good for roughly 300whp


RS4
spray more than the S3's but do not have the correct spray pattern so you end up with a cloud of black smoke and soot on your bumper from going wide open throttle and is good for roughly 450whp




vizi

[SykoraA4]

ultimately your injectors will be determined by whichever tune you go with.

[Tanner]

viziers, i'm guessing the injector's spray pattern is "made to work" with the shape of the top of the piston correct. I don't recall seeing how the piston on the RS4 is shaped but have read that the shape of the piston in the 2.0T is designed in such a way to help mix the atomized fuel from the injector properly to get a good burn.

[viziers]

viziers, i'm guessing the injector's spray pattern is "made to work" with the shape of the top of the piston correct. I don't recall seeing how the piston on the RS4 is shaped but have read that the shape of the piston in the 2.0T is designed in such a way to help mix the atomized fuel from the injector properly to get a good burn.

I belive so as far as the piston shape goes and mixing with the fuel, but the patterns are both pretty different.. The made to work part is true as far as the tuning goes it can be minimized at the hands of a good tuner....

Take into consideration these were not run at full Psi but the same end result would be the same...






vizi

[Loud_Greg]

If it's a K04 setup, go with S3 injectors. You'll have multiple options for a stock tune. If you're getting a stand-alone tune anyway, then I guess go for whatever you can find that the tuner can work with.

[DRAKLORE]

Just keep in mind no one knows the flow rate of either injector, but no one has really been able to make the power with the s3 that has been made with the rs4... ultimately I would focus on getting the stg2 hpfpupgrade, rail check valve and in tank pump. Those right there and 350whp should have any fueling issues

[makav3li]

Go s3 injectors, either one will flow plenty for a k04. The problem with not flowing enough happens up in the gt30 range, much much bigger than the k04. I believe the s3 injectors are cheaper as well. But you will be ok with either set of injectors.

[DRAKLORE]

S3 are quite a bit more $$$ :-/

[Loud_Greg]

Yeah, S3 are actually significantly more expensive, strangely enough. Most likely because they weren't a US part until the TT-S, and RS4's come in set of 8, so there's more supply.

[Operator]

Yeah, S3 are actually significantly more expensive, strangely enough. Most likely because they weren't a US part until the TT-S, and RS4's come in set of 8, so there's more supply.

Truth spoken! S3's seem to be at least $100 more.

[makav3li]

then go with rs4, either way you will be completely fine with a k04. Its a little more tricky when you get higher in turbos.

[jibatnes]

Hmm ok :) thanx for all the input. Maybe i will hust phurchase APR`s complete K04 kit.. That includes S3 injectors.. I just know that after 4-5-6 months maybe. I want
more. Maybe its better to leave those out and buy the RS4 instead due to future builds as long as they both work fine with the K04 :)

[OOOOS4]

The difference between the 2 are as follows

S3
The S3 flows more than stock and most importantly it uses the correct spray pattern so no black smoke and good for roughly 300whp


RS4
spray more than the S3's but do not have the correct spray pattern so you end up with a cloud of black smoke and soot on your bumper from going wide open throttle and is good for roughly 450whp




vizi

they are rated 600whp the RS4 fsi injector

[Tanner]

Thought - if you use the rs4 injectors on the 2.0T, would you expect to see buildup on the intake valves much sooner?

[CorneliusRox]

there is a thread around here somewhere where Vizi got that pic from and there was one hell of a debate about if he was using the correct pressure when doing his samples. That being said and from reading it, I got the same out of that thread as vizi did. S3 = cleaner but less flow than RS4's.


Also, I have to add that I have no hands on experience with either :-)


And on the note of fsi having a 'special piston'. All modern direct injection engines (gas and diesel) use a 'bowl' design on the top that splits the spray to atomize the fuel better. This bowl shape along with high pressure, spray angle, and number of holes/size seems to be a HUGE part of development for creating HP and better mileage.
^^Just some fun facts

[viziers]

they are rated 600whp the RS4 fsi injector

Lmao thats funny!!! Nice one!



vizi

[Operator]

If you plan to go no further than a K04, then stick with the S3.

[DRAKLORE]

Thought - if you use the rs4 injectors on the 2.0T, would you expect to see buildup on the intake valves much sooner?

Good question- no, because the fsi is a direct injection motor. The injectors sit inside the head, and spray directly into the combustion chamber. Most conventional motors spray pre intake valves and the fuel gets atomized before entering the chamber, the fuel can (depending on additives and conditions) actually prevent carbon buildup. Because the fsi is post intake valve (direct injection) there is no fuel to "wash" over the valves and thus any oil introduced by the PVC system or turbo seals, gets burned onto the valves...

[jerseybrian]

ultimately I would focus on getting the stg2 hpfpupgrade, rail check valve and in tank pump. Those right there and 350whp should have any fueling issues

Do you have links to the rail check valve and an upgraded in-tank pump?

I'm going to save up for RAI's EFR turbo setup and it seems like I'll have to go with the RS4 injectors based on their recommendation.

[Satummoo]

ebay.uk used to have (may still have) S3 injectors for 250$ shipped. It took 2 months to get, but sure beats paying over 600$.

There was a thread on here or mkvforums.com that concluded (bench test) that the rs4 injectors were tested and didn't flow more than stock injectors and that s3 were the best

[DRAKLORE]

Do you have links to the rail check valve and an upgraded in-tank pump?

I'm going to save up for RAI's EFR turbo setup and it seems like I'll have to go with the RS4 injectors based on their recommendation.

Hpfpupgrade.com seek out John

[DRAKLORE]

ebay.uk used to have (may still have) S3 injectors for 250$ shipped. It took 2 months to get, but sure beats paying over 600$.

There was a thread on here or mkvforums.com that concluded (bench test) that the rs4 injectors were tested and didn't flow more than stock injectors and that s3 were the best

OMFG STFU everyone talking bout that effing bench test, im sorry that was ever attempted because it's just poisoned the water with miss information. If you don't know.... Please please ppl stop posting misleading comments that will have new and old memers alike thinking things that simply are unproven/untrue... [/ENDRANT]





And jerseybrian pm [email protected] and I'm sure he can hook you up with a drop in dw-300 for a really good price. I think D1 just did a review on the deutsch werks pumps and found them to flow better and out perform some of the higher priced pumps and be quite a bit smaller :-)

[OOOOS4]

Lmao thats funny!!! Nice one!



vizi

LMFAO THAT'S FUNNIER!!! Then if you are still not really sure about that. juste give a call to Unitronic ;)

2.0T FSI Big Turbo Injector Set, OEM RS4 FSI $625.00
These OEM RS4 FSI injectors are perfect for 2.0T FSI big turbo applications. Tested to over 600 WHP.
http://www.034motorsport.com/fuel-in...i-p-18722.html

[viziers]

LMFAO THAT'S FUNNIER!!! Then if you are still not really sure about that. juste give a call to Unitronic ;)

2.0T FSI Big Turbo Injector Set, OEM RS4 FSI $625.00
These OEM RS4 FSI injectors are perfect for 2.0T FSI big turbo applications. Tested to over 600 WHP.
http://www.034motorsport.com/fuel-in...i-p-18722.html

I'm almost possitive that is nothing more than an advertisement ploy! As if you look at any BT build here no one is making close to that on pump.


And if 034 says thjey are doing it then id like to see data proof posted here to show that it is possible and i'm pretty sure they can't. IMO!




vizi

[mec]

Best place to buy s3 injectors? and by best I mean cheapest

[p0isin]

CTSTurbo has them on sale for $469.99 instead of $549.99.

S3 Injectors x 4

[ericpaulyoung]

The difference between the 2 are as follows
S3
The S3 flows more than stock and most importantly it uses the correct spray pattern so no black smoke and good for roughly 300whp
RS4
spray more than the S3's but do not have the correct spray pattern so you end up with a cloud of black smoke and soot on your bumper from going wide open throttle and is good for roughly 450whp
vizi

wrong, RS4 injectors only flow 4% more than S3 injectors. So how would you get 1.04 x 300 = 450 ????? Talk about bad math.

epy

[ericpaulyoung]

Just keep in mind no one knows the flow rate of either injector...

hehe, except those of us that sent them in to be flow tested.

[mec]

wrong, RS4 injectors only flow 4% more than S3 injectors. So how would you get 1.04 x 300 = 450 ????? Talk about bad math.

epy

proof?

[ericpaulyoung]

proof?

I am over in the mountains at a cabin right now, but you can do it pretty easily by comparing the injector constants. Divide the RS4 constant and S3 constant and you will have your answer to the difference in flow rates :)

epy

[mec]

I am over in the mountains at a cabin right now, but you can do it pretty easily by comparing the injector constants. Divide the RS4 constant and S3 constant and you will have your answer to the difference in flow rates :)

epy

Right, but I mean if you supposedly had these flow tested surely you have some sheets to show us the flow rates

[ericpaulyoung]

I posted the S3 flow sheets before, so to get the RS4 flow you just multiply the ratio of the injector constants times those numbers. Very simple math :) I will go look for the flow sheets when I have time and re post them here. A set of RS4 injectors was also sent to the same tester but by a different guy. So I will need to go look for that sheet to prove the injector constants are correct. I think I saved a copy of it, but if not I can send an RS4 injector in for testing (I have a set sitting in the shop collecting dust).

EPY

[mec]

I posted the S3 flow sheets before, so to get the RS4 flow you just multiply the ratio of the injector constants times those numbers. Very simple math :) I will go look for the flow sheets when I have time and re post them here. A set of RS4 injectors was also sent to the same tester but by a different guy. So I will need to go look for that sheet to prove the injector constants are correct. I think I saved a copy of it, but if not I can send an RS4 injector in for testing (I have a set sitting in the shop collecting dust).

EPY

Please and thank you!

[viziers]

Right, but I mean if you supposedly had these flow tested surely you have some sheets to show us the flow rates

Ummm, thats what I was quoted back in the beginning of 2011 by APR.


vizi

[mec]

Ummm, thats what I was quoted back in the beginning of 2011 by APR.


vizi

That doesn't make sense, did you mean to quote Eric?

[ericpaulyoung]

That doesn't make sense, did you mean to quote Eric?

That is what CTS quoted me back in the beginning of 2013!

epy

[mec]

That is what CTS quoted me back in the beginning of 2013!

epy

If I lived closer I would go remove your fuel pump fuse so you're car wouldn't start and you wouldn't know why

[ericpaulyoung]

If I lived closer I would go remove your fuel pump fuse so you're car wouldn't start and you wouldn't know why

hehe

epy