AEB + Maestro.

**garytightpants** · 08-28-2014 09:29 AM

Originally Posted by vrmm

Can I put the stock sensor in the 4.2l housing? I would assume that would be a no. The 4.2 sensor can read way higher right or is it just the housing and it makes for lower g/s readings..

No. On top of the sensor putting out a different voltage, the sensor itself is turned 90 degrees.

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**rockersteady** · 08-29-2014 01:04 AM

Vrmm.

So your car runs fine with the stock ecu injector/maf?

440 at 4 bar stock maf file?

if thats all good above then the 630cc version should work fine as well (Although its very finicky about leaks of any kind- nowhere near as tolerant as other files)

pic of your maf wiring, where did you get the voltage regulator? eurodyne dealers (whoever sold you the cable) should be able to supply the harness (and maf if you choose)

Whats your maf part number? new/used?

Looking at your vid a few posts back. the fuel for start up is fine (mostly) and then it continues to idle on the left over fuel. The revs drop and the TB opens to try to raise rpm- at this stage it has no idea of fuel mix because the primary o2 sensor is not yet working. (another 20 seconds or so) Follow on from this is the finicky MAF scaling the file comes with and leans out on TB auto opening to try to raise rpm.

Appears you have one or more of the following:

1. A leak on intake manifold or intake piping
2. incorrect fuel pressure
3. incorrectly reported air flow (maf or maf wiring problem or maf plumbing problem)- you can temporarily partially block the maf inlet with a bit of tape- this will increase reported airflow (and fuel) a bit like you choke a carby to get more idle fuel

you need to NOT touch the accel pedal in this case, just let it hunt to shit untill the o2 sensor kicks in and adds fuel

try starting the car with the fuel pressure regulator signal line off and plugged, this will raise the fuel pressure for the warm up.
once the o2 sensor kicks in (measure block 01 and or 31) it should steady itself out. drive or idle till nearly full temp and it will start to learn the fuel trims and next time wont be as bad.

but fix what ever is faulting:
1 2 or 3 above

**Crispy222** · 08-29-2014 12:53 PM

Originally Posted by rockersteady

try starting the car with the fuel pressure regulator signal line off and plugged, this will raise the fuel pressure for the warm up.
once the o2 sensor kicks in (measure block 01 and or 31) it should steady itself out. drive or idle till nearly full temp and it will start to learn the fuel trims and next time wont be as bad.

but fix what ever is faulting:
1 2 or 3 above

Pretty much dead on. Truthfully, the motor should idle without a primary O2 when its at temperature. It should be in a base fuel and ignition state; holding rpm with the throttle body position. Cold start should increase the fuel and the rpm should run a little higher.

**vrmm** · 08-29-2014 01:41 PM

My maf #: 077 133 471j

Voltage regulator is from radioshack 7805.
I've tested the voltage when running: 14.5v on 12v+ wire and 8ish on 5v wire.

My ecu reads the maf signal. It idles at 1.7g/s. When revving it didn't go over 20g/s iirc. That was however only up to 3k.

I have driven with the 440cc file with the 630cc injectors and it works good. After driving it I have switched maf's to the 4.2l maf while the car was still very warm and it was no different(insinuating the 02 was warm)

I'll try what you said. I have to wait until Tuesday. Thanks for the reply!

**vrmm** · 09-02-2014 09:10 PM

I finally got it running. It idles perfectly but it's not so great up top. It magically started working after the eurdyne 5.5.9. The map I am using is the same and I doubt updating eurodyne would have solved the issue. I just let it idle for a long time on rockersteady's 3 bar file with a 3 bar in it.

I have a TONNN of knock higher up on cylinder 1 & 4. Mostly 4 though. My fuel trim's at idle are +29.7 at idle via measuring blocks in in eurodyne. Without main fuel corrections being super high (1.780)((almost maxed and ghetto)) it runs super lean. I have a 4 bar on it currently. My vacuum is 18 at idle and I do not have a boost leak. I have an exhaust leak before my 02's which I shall be addressing, but it's extremely small, so small i'm not sure it would affect much. It should also be noted this is on 10psi.

I don't have a cat, stock 1999 02 sensors, maf is used but reads 2.8 g/s at idle now, stock fuel pump, and new 630cc bosch injectors.
I'm planning to get new 02's and a new fuel pump this week.
I clearly have something not working correctly and i'm well aware how catastrophic the below knock voltage is.

**rockersteady** · 09-02-2014 10:10 PM

battery voltage compensation. open map
select all the values and right click math functions , add 20%. (this'll put it closer to where you want)
That bvc on base file is for siemens. The bosch units take a lot longer to open. that will help your idle trims a little

**ZimbutheMonkey** · 09-03-2014 05:55 PM

Originally Posted by spindoctor

so I'm about to order the IE manifold and would love to run an OBD2 VR6 TB.

Was wondering if anyone here has played around or had issues running them with the maestro tune for AEB?

I know Zimbu @ Tyler had issues but can't remember how he fixed it.

Just saw your post. As for how I fixed it, I honestly don't remember. It basically involved a lot of fucking around until it worked.

If I remember correctly, I ended up messing with the battery compensation tables. To get a stable (albeit a little rough) idle, I ended up running really lean at idle. Somewhere around 16:1 17:1. It didn't have any adverse effects though. I had to pull the head after my #3 exhaust valve dropped and there was no evidence of any detonation and/or burning on the valves.

It makes sense though, because as soon as you touched the throttle, the regular maps kick in and it moves into it's regular A/F ratios at cruise and WOT conditions.

**b5audi21** · 09-03-2014 09:56 PM

Originally Posted by vrmm

I finally got it running. It idles perfectly but it's not so great up top. It magically started working after the eurdyne 5.5.9. The map I am using is the same and I doubt updating eurodyne would have solved the issue. I just let it idle for a long time on rockersteady's 3 bar file with a 3 bar in it.

I have a TONNN of knock higher up on cylinder 1 & 4. Mostly 4 though. My fuel trim's at idle are +29.7 at idle via measuring blocks in in eurodyne. Without main fuel corrections being super high (1.780)((almost maxed and ghetto)) it runs super lean. I have a 4 bar on it currently. My vacuum is 18 at idle and I do not have a boost leak. I have an exhaust leak before my 02's which I shall be addressing, but it's extremely small, so small i'm not sure it would affect much. It should also be noted this is on 10psi.

I don't have a cat, stock 1999 02 sensors, maf is used but reads 2.8 g/s at idle now, stock fuel pump, and new 630cc bosch injectors.
I'm planning to get new 02's and a new fuel pump this week.
I clearly have something not working correctly and i'm well aware how catastrophic the below knock voltage is.

Would you mind emailing me this file?

**vrmm** · 09-04-2014 08:12 AM

Yeah I have to work a little late tonight, but when I get home I will. Wanna pm me your email?

My afr is good at wot now. At idle it sweeps between 13 and 18 afr. I haven't had a chance to deal with battery compensation aside from upping it 20%, so I'm not sure all what it can do.

I still have super high 02 correction and my knock sensors are through the roof. Would my 02 corrections be on the fritz due battery comp still being off?

It sucks having so many me7 threads and not many aeb. I've read that me7 messes with injector constant to deal with it, so I don't know how to handle it on me5.

**vrmm** · 09-04-2014 08:52 PM

Well I fiddled with battery comp values with no success. I leaned out my main fuel correction since it was around 10 at wot. A massive 02 correction is still happening and my knock voltage is super high.
My IAT's are 30c.
I read the highest knock sensor voltage can be is 29v's, so either they were wrong or possibly my sensors are bad?

**Jerstillman** · 09-04-2014 08:59 PM

To me it looks likes you have way too much timing. Can you hear it knocking?

**vrmm** · 09-04-2014 09:29 PM

My open dump is way too loud to hear anything like that. I don't have any timing pull and every map I've seen is right around there. It's the timing map from the base file. I did turn it down to a max of 33 and it didn't change anything.

**Jerstillman** · 09-04-2014 09:30 PM

Hmm because if its showing knock then why isnt it pulling timing?

**vrmm** · 09-04-2014 09:31 PM

Actually those logs in my 2nd to last post are from when it was maxed at 33. Usually it's 44.

**vrmm** · 09-04-2014 09:31 PM

I've wondered that myself. I suppose the knock correction map would help with that, but I would assume that lowering the timing map would have helped with knock.

**Jerstillman** · 09-04-2014 09:43 PM

Google for sure

**Jerstillman** · 09-04-2014 09:51 PM

Whats your knock retard set at in maestro

**vrmm** · 09-04-2014 10:13 PM

Whatever the basefile is. - 1.5 across the board I think. There's nothing about it online in reference to vw's or audi's using maestro so if I change anything it would just be a guessing game.

**rockersteady** · 09-05-2014 04:16 AM

change all fuel correction map values in 0.5 load column to 1.08, that will get you started sorting the part throttle lean out in neutral and driving.
besides that all other areas in your (closed loop area- fueling controlled by 02 sensor) map are fine, as your trims are actually good (block 32)

im not sure? why are you reving to 6000 if not wide open throttle?

the timing map has a lot of advance for light load (part throttle) hi revs. I think its just the way it was left (when made) not by necessarily by design. Im not sure it should be that high but normally only time you will be light load at that rpm is let off throttle from full load (wot)

What turbo and wastegate setting do you have? What boost are you running WOT, n75 or MBC?

**vrmm** · 09-05-2014 06:51 AM

Comp 5456 76mm compressor exducer, turbonetics evo wastegate with a 5lb spring, ball and spring mbc @ 9.5psi. N75 is electrically plugged in.
So my fuel trims are good, it's just my 02 correction that's having to manipulate fueling due to my main fuel correction map being way off? Is it trying to get to an afr that it knows is good and it's not there, so it tries to to manipulate it with 02 correction? My idle is generally pretty lean like 18afr. If that's correct then 29.7 at idle makes sense.

I suppose that's what I don't understand. If I make changes to my fueling map in certain areas will my 02 correction get better? I have yet to see that happen when I adjust maps that's why I am doubtful.
I've been assuming it's more of a hardware issue. Such as a vacuum leak(which is still -18 @ idle).

I don't know if it helps but here's a video.... The sweeping led's are afr, but the colors are off, i.e. green is on 12-12.5, so the red below it is where is should be.
I do believe in this video it was going down to 10-10.5 though.

You can see the 29.7. That's 02 correction is it not? This log isn't too bad, but generally it's sorta all over the place.

**zandrew** · 09-05-2014 07:02 AM

His issues are a lot like mine. I figured part of my equation out when I swapped ina different MAF though I have 3 them and honestly that does not make sense. My issues did not arise until I did the PCV dump and I have been wondering if maybe thats part of the problem. I am running the straight 630 base file on Siemens Deka. The car runs pretty good on a GT3071R running 15psi off the intrnal WG. I don't have the N75 hooked up nor the EBC. Just straight WG. My AFRs at WOT are low 14s even when I am making 15psi and I was seeing no knock. I can get a log for anyone that wants to see it. Those AFRs came from my wideband as well.

Here is the weird part though. The only way I can get my car to run is by using a 5 Bar FPR. It will not run with a 4 bar and no way in hell will it run on a 3 bar. Honestly I am bit scared to try the others since I have not had it running remotely correct in so long. I am wondering if the open dump is causing issues since they arose literally right after doing it. I really need to figure this out since I am ready to swap in my other engine. I have actually been considering swapping to the 440 file and see if it works bu with it I can not figure out which MAF it uses. I have info from Eurodyne it needs the VR6 MAF and in Maestro it says stock MAF. I have also seen it needs the stock element in a VR6 MAF housing....

VRMN- I think healthy engines are typically 20-22 in mg. Mine is right at 22 at idle.

**Jerstillman** · 09-05-2014 07:05 AM

Send me a log andrew.

**vrmm** · 09-05-2014 08:27 AM

Zandrew I had to drive like 50 miles to get my afr's down to 10's. What worked was 3 bar file with 4 bar on and change the main fuel correction to be super high. I think I posted a screenshot of it.

I saw a post the other day that said if you have an open pcv dump and the pcv valve still on it acts like a big vacuum leak. Do you still have your pcv valve on? Do you have high knock in block 26?

**vrmm** · 09-05-2014 08:39 AM

I used the 440 file with the stock maf and it was good. Slow as can be and maxed my maf at around 10psi I believe. I currently have a 3 bar on a 3 bar file. So far it's just been 14afr at its lowest except for right when I let off the gas. It jumps to 12 then migrates back to 18 given that I am off throttle. Perhaps I was too hopeful thinking I could get the 3 bar working.

I can send you the file that works for me. It's 4 bar and the one with the 1.780 main fuel correction up top. I don't know if that's an issue. I've never seen anyone else have it that high.

**Crispy222** · 09-05-2014 02:22 PM

I think the AEB MAF sensor in the VR6 ODBI MAF housing (larger) would work well for you VRMM.

**Avant Nate** · 09-05-2014 02:40 PM

Originally Posted by Crispy222

I think the AEB MAF sensor in the VR6 ODBI MAF housing (larger) would work well for you VRMM.

Turbos too big, might be fine at really low boost.

**vrmm** · 09-05-2014 03:32 PM

I got my 4.2l maf working, so I don't need too use the wii ones anymore :) I was looking to do that before since I couldn't get my 4.2l working (it needed the 3 bar rocksteady file and to warm up all the way). I suppose I should say my 4.2l maf always worked. The maestro basefile did not.

**zandrew** · 09-05-2014 04:06 PM

This is something I have been wondering about. A lot of the bosch MAFs will heat up after you shut the engine off top clean the MAF element. With the 5v regulator it would prevent the MAF from doing this. I have also noticed my engine will stumble for probably the first minute then it's fine.

Does anyone else know anything about this?

**rockersteady** · 09-06-2014 06:51 AM

Vrrm, it looks like you need to re-adjust your throttle cable for one thing so that the cable has just a little slack in it at Throttle body.

It appears you may not really understand trims so ill explain a little for anyone who might not be really sure about the AEB fuelling.
The maf says to inject enough fuel for how much air Ive just measured (AT ALL TIMES except De-cell)
The o2 sensor checks the mix and then corrects it if nec (ONLY at idle, part throttle- light to mid load or "Closed loop")
The ecu remembers an average for this correction and stores the AVERAGE as "trims" (aka long term) and uses this to adjust the ENTIRE fuel map cells
The corrections you see in block 031 are instant trims , aka 02 corrections ( aka short term)
So if the 02 corrections are way off in only certain areas then thats where you need to add or subtract fuel..

However in your case you should leak test first- Trying to trim a car that has varying leaks is going in circles. Get the hardware right , tune it once
a big clue is how far you have to go adjusting mapping to get it running- its not the base file thats out so badly- its your car.

ill wager you reload base file and once warm unplug the maf, itll run just fine. Your maf is not reading the same amount as your car is getting, it doesnt nec' mean the maf is out - it means the reported air doesnt match with what its actually getting. The 02 sensor doesnt lie.

**Avant Nate** · 09-06-2014 11:27 PM

I wish somebody (rockersteady wink wink), would write up a basic manual for AEB tuning with Maestro. I didn't really know what each of the maps did, even after trying the file you sent me, I gave up messing with it before I blew something up.

**garytightpants** · 09-08-2014 08:22 AM

Originally Posted by Avant Nate

I wish somebody (rockersteady wink wink), would write up a basic manual for AEB tuning with Maestro. I didn't really know what each of the maps did, even after trying the file you sent me, I gave up messing with it before I blew something up.

I second this motion!

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**Jerstillman** · 09-08-2014 04:33 PM

Third it

**Seerlah** · 09-08-2014 05:02 PM

Stopping in just to say rockersteady is a tremendous help. Sent him my file for the me7 to help with a fluctuating idle issue, along with slight lean at idle/part throttle issue (A/Fs go stoich after running a couple minutes, so still not sure what's up. and still runs lean at part throttle then corrects itself like instantly once the ecu recognizes the proper engine load or something. what it feels like on throttle). He told me what parameters to change, but have not gottten around to uploading the tweeks yet.

If you are reading this rockersteady, I'll try and get to it tomorrow (file already tweeked, just not uploaded. will really try and dedicate this weekend to working on my car though, as it will be free for once). Just been rather busy and I have a maxima I dd. But in the meantime, did things like change out the TB (TPS) and that helped out tremendously. Still am convinced my issue is electrical somewhere. Question is where! Going to swap out entire crank sensor harness from my spare harness I have laying around (already de-pinned from spare and I will solder the ground to crimp that holds other bundle of grounds), as this all started after that sensor took a dump on me over the winter.

**rockersteady** · 09-11-2014 03:05 AM

Not AEB related but further investigation reveals the awm file alfa n and tb angle are a bit out Seerlah. It runs off these maps untill o2 sensor kicks in (can be minutes later if cold) and it causes all kinds of dramas. Fitted a temporary wideband gauge to a AWT (euro- Aussie version of AWM engine code) to see what was going on as O2 sensor wont report untill really late. Didnt check but try the AWP alfa n /tb airflow maps as seen these run well straight out of box and its same engine/maf and TB.

**Seerlah** · 09-11-2014 03:58 AM

I am MAFless. Will that make a difference? I also don't know much about tuning. What you tell me I tell person tuning my car, he tweets it, sends me the file and we go from there. You still have my file if you don't mind tweeting it yourself and sending it to my email. Person tuning my car may stumble in this thread sooner or later if he sees it.

I will first send you a log of the tweet you told me to do with 2 min idle, temps up, and this is with replacement tb with maestro tba (not key in ignition technique). Also replaced all my injector sections of the harness.

**Seerlah** · 09-12-2014 02:34 PM

So, very interesting turn of events. I wish I took a video of how my car would start on cold starts prior to the tweeks rockersteady told me to do to my current file. Car would start but would lean the f*ck out after the default for a couple minutes. Then it would level out after a couple minutes. But I still had a part throttle lean issue (I mean it was bad...like 17s bad). Anyways, it was just a fluctuating idle that annoyed the crap out of me I wanted fixed (under the impression at this time I had a wiring issue somewhere causing my issue). So, rockersteady told me to change my injector constant to .05 (running Bosch EV14 630cc injectors) and increase my bcv 30% on all values. Decided to drive my Audi took work, took my laptop with me, wanted to flash my ECU during my break with the tweeked tune (previous changes mentioned), and test the tweek on the way home. Did that and it killed two birds with one stone. No more idle fluctuation (idles like a kitten at steady ~800-900RPM) and my lean issue is completely gone (start up and part throttle). I just find it strange as I ran my car for a while without having a lean issue, my engine speed sensor takes a crap on me, and been running lean ever since

...till now

. And on the plus not, I forgot all about "throttle response". With my car running lean at part throttle (low RPM), I enjoyed my car all over again like it was new to me. Now...time to chase more power

Anyways, thanks a bunch rockersteady. I did not do a 2 minute idle log as everything seemed fine. What I want to do is do a WOT log and see how things look. But my AFR is spot on. 14.3:1 idle (was always like that even with my GT2871R and OTS tune), but cruising is stoich (14.7:1). If there is anything on my ECU you want to look at, just ask. And thanks a bunch man. 2 weeks before h20 and am extremely happy!!! I'll PM you if you don't respond in this thread by maybe Saturday night.