ECU & Immobilizer help needed, all new keys & fobs installed and dealer has issues

[ENDEE666]

So as some of you know from my other post, I got robbed recently. They got my other car and the only keys to my A6. So I sent my car to the dealer for all new locks, keys & fobs. Now they are having issues and I need to find out how they or I can solve them..

They got the locks & keys in. The car starts & runs. But the immobilizer light flashes. This is my orig 01 cluster, and the ecu is orig too. So there should be no issue. But of course, the dealer is taking the excuse that my car is not stock & has a flashed ECU to blame for the issue. They say that their equipment reads the cluster but for the ECU my VIN comes up with the first 3 or 4 digits then all "XXXXXXXXXXX". Why would this happen, when even I have no issue reading the ECU with VAG-COM, ECUx, etc?? They are claiming that because my ECU is "chipped" (totally custom file, not a 'chip' exactly) that its blocking them from reading it..

I don't see how any ECU flash changing engine mapping could prevent Immobilizer programming. So now I ask you guys- Can I fix this myself with Vag-Com? Is there some info I can share with them to solve this? If it is something I can do, I would rather that. So I can get my car back, tell them to fuck off, and make them take $ off the bill for not finishing it properly..

My battery was disconnected for a while prior to going to the dealer. Would this have any connection? I know that will cause an issue passing inspection since "Readiness" has not reset yet..

[A62TURBO]

Did they try syncing the new keys to the immobilizer?

[ENDEE666]

That's what they are having the issue with. When they try to sync the new coded fobs, the ECU is "blocked" they said so it fails. But if I can read my ECU with Vag & ECUx, why can't they?

[Scotty@Advanced]

That's what they are having the issue with. When they try to sync the new coded fobs, the ECU is "blocked" they said so it fails. But if I can read my ECU with Vag & ECUx, why can't they?

You don't login to the ECM to code keys you login to the immobilizer unit in the cluster.

[A62TURBO]

+1 for Scotty!!!

[ENDEE666]

You don't login to the ECM to code keys you login to the immobilizer unit in the cluster.

This was my understanding as well, but the dealer is telling me otherwise. They say when the machine they use for keys/immobilizer is hooked up, it sends various info from my car to Audi and that it can't read the info it needs from the ECU. They say its blocked and my vin only shows a few numbers then all X's..

And of course, they blame the fact my ECU is flashed. But we all know here, nothing about stage 3 tuning involves keys or immobilizer..

On a side note, my car is a 2001. And for a while I ran a 2004 cluster in my car because it had a better LCD. That one always flashed the immobilizer. This at least made sense, since the cluster was from a different car & different year. But I purposely put my 2001 cluster in to avoid that. And now that one does it too!!! WTF?!?!?!???

[mpower]

Are you sure that you have an immobilizer? Audi started using the Immobilizer on late 01 A6 models. The early 2001 didn't have immobilizers. If you do have immo and the car starts and runs someone had defeated/turned off the Immobilizer intentionally in the ECU to make it run. This can be done by third party tools or a tuner. The fact that you ran the 04 cluster without needing to code immo tells me that you either don't have immo or have it defeated/turned off in the ECU.

Normally if the PIN in the cluster does not match the PIN in the ECU the car will not start. Same goes for when the keys aren't coded/adapted to the Immobilizer in the cluster.

There was a thread in this section not too long ago where the guy lost his only key and had a local locksmith cut the key, but the locksmith didnt code the key to the immo (guess didn't how to), so instead turned the immo off in the ecu. The result was the same, running car with blinking immo light in the cluster.

For the most part, dealers/techs have no specific knowledge of the different parts of Immobilizer and can't disect the system. They use a scan tool that contacts the "Geko" database in Germany to retrieve an SKC number. The scan tool then does the work them.

[ENDEE666]

My car is a late 01. Am I sure I have one? No. But I am sure that I now have a flashing immobilizer light on my 01 cluster. And I never did with my original keys.

[blkrhyno]

Sorry to hear that you are still having issues with your car. I don't understand why the immo light is flashing when your car didn't have one to begin with. There is a way to bypass the immobilizer but that requires you to have an immobilizer ring around your key cylinder.

[mpower]

If you initially got immo light on the later 04 A6 (immo) cluster and car started it means that 1) you don't have immo or 2) have it defeated in the ECU. Do you have the part number of your original 01 cluster? This will identify immo or no immo in the cluster. Also, you'd be surprised how many people take the cluster apart and place a piece of black electrical tape over the CEL or immo.. I don't know if you are the original owner and how long you have owned your car, but I wouldn't be surprised if the immo light was covered.. Just my 2 cents

[ENDEE666]

It wasn't covered, but that will be my next resort if I can't solve this.

[dualaudi]

does the car shut off after driving 20 feet? that's what my immobilizer does, if I use my spare key that's not programmed. if not live with a blinking light for the time being.

[julex]

In all likeliness your "chip" tune is actually a S4 M-Box file (or whatever auto equivalent box there is) which is a common way to flash allroads/A6s with Me 7.1.1 / APB engine since M-Box is well understood and works without any issues. What tuners never tell you (very shoddy practice or they just don't know) is that using S4 file that doesn't have immobilizer will effectively disable immobilizer protection since ECU no longer requires immo code to run.

The other part of the system which is located inside of cluster, reads the code from key and makes this info available for ECU if IT ASKS FOR IT, but since ECU never does, the immo never works as intended after the flash. Sure it appears to, but it doesn't. Anybody can steal your car as easily as B5 S4.

If you get new immo key/code or install different cluster, the cluster will throw a fit and start flashing key icon but this is as far as it will go since again, ECU doesn't care.

So hop into your car, start it, and try driving. if it shuts down, you have what it an original ECU programming with altered tables (very doubtful about that), if it doesn't... you will never get immo working until you get proper A6 specific file that uses immobilizer.

Needlessly to say, if it drives with icon flashing then you don't need the dealer for anything. Just tape over the icon key and go your merry way and be glad the car was ONLY broken into and not stolen last time around.

Now you also mentioned VAG-COM and ECux. What part# does vag-com report and what group files are you using for Ecux? If you're using S4 group file to read with Ecux then it is a dead give away that you're running S4 binaries.

[ENDEE666]

Wouldn't all those things mean I would have had the light flashing before all this? My car has been flashed for years, and never had flashing light prior to getting locks & keys changed..

[ben916]

why not remove the file (back to stock), get the keys working and the immobilizer working, get the flashing to go away on the cluster, then re-apply custom file?
pardon my ignorance on stage 3, etc...

[ENDEE666]

why not remove the file (back to stock), get the keys working and the immobilizer working, get the flashing to go away on the cluster, then re-apply custom file?
pardon my ignorance on stage 3, etc...

Not at all that simple. Once an ECU is tampered with at all, the dealer has issues. But aside from that, I could potentially get it sorted if I had a bone stock ECU to swap in for programming only. Then swap mine back. But I don't have a stock one.

[Scotty@Advanced]

does the car shut off after driving 20 feet? that's what my immobilizer does, if I use my spare key that's not programmed. if not live with a blinking light for the time being.

If your engine has an immobilizer issues the car will run for about 3 seconds then shut down.

[ENDEE666]

If your engine has an immobilizer issues the car will run for about 3 seconds then shut down.

K, I will make sure it at least makes it around the lot.

[julex]

Nope.

Again, your only "new" issue is a cosmetic one of flashing immo key icon since you are inserting a key with immo chip your cluster doesn't know - hence the alert on the dash. If you still can start the car and it runs/drives as normal, your immo was never working from day 1 you went stage 3.

Immo protection is up to ECU (or more accurately up to its programming). ECU has an immobilizer ID stored in its memory. With proper programming (audi A6/allroad for that era), the ECU will fetch that value and then ask the cluster for immo ID of the key in the ignition. If they match, you never see anything. If they don't (or cluster doesn't respond), the ECU shuts down after few seconds. Car is grounded.

Immo also compares the key ID to its internally stored value and depending on match or lack of, it flashes the icon.

With S4 tunes the programming never asks the cluster about immo ID since S4s never came with immo. Hence the only part of the system that still operates is the cluster reading the key ID which it then compares to its internal value and flashes key icon if it doesn't match.

What is most likely happening with your car is your tuner disabled diagnostic access to the ECU, a common practice amongst tuners, so that people can't read their flash off. The deaer needs that access to store new immo ID on the ECU and then do the same to cluster.

A way to cheat would be to get a spare stock ECU for A6/allroad circa 2000 and have the dealer change the crap in the ECU/cluster and then insert stage 3 after you're done. This would only work if the stage 3 ECU is fine with new immobilizer and car drivers even though the icon flash.

AFAIK most if not all stage 3 tuned A6/allroads out there with APB engine have their immo neutered due to dirty practice on behalf of tuners that use "lazy" method of flashing S4 tune over the original programming.


How do I know all of that? First hand experience with several tunes, head to nefmoto.com if you're interested to learn more than you may ever need about all aspects of tuning.

Thanks.

[ENDEE666]

Wow, great info, and finally all makes sense.. Thanks!

[rollerton]

Hm. One final test you could consider just for fun would be to remove one the RFID chips from one of your keys and try and start the car. If it runs then your Immo is absolutely defeated or doesnt exist. If it does not run, then Immo is active and you can blame the incompetent dealer for not knowing how to properly marry the Immo system. If it runs?...which I'm guessing it will..All things considered I would be inclined to just put the electrical tape over the blinking light, I know it will bother you (it would me) but...considering the hassle of having it out with the tuner and sending out your ECu... reprogramming etc..lame.
The bottom line is If the Immo light flashes AND the car runs Ok it can ONLY be a failing Immo component or mismatched-improper coding/ hardware.

[ENDEE666]

I gave up, and am assuming my immo is disabled. I took the car back. On my spare cluster from an 04 with better LCD, I covered the hole where the immo light bulb is with electrical tape. Car runs fine, problem solved..

[julex]

Right on man, as I suspected, your immo was already neutered by your tuner a long time ago. Isn't that great that they never disclosed that to you???

If you're REALLY anal about these things, you could get vag commander and hack the cluster with new immo code but you'd need to know what the code on the key is.

If you already have a cheapo-o ebay vag-com cable it will work with publicly avilable vag commander software (hacked one). I know I successfully re-coded cluster with vag commander so I know it DOES work .

I believe that the key code can be read off from cluster or some other module but I never coded new key so I am no 100% about this. Maybe the code is imprinted on immo capsule inside the key or the dealer can give you that info or something....

Tsk, tsk, and with vag commander you can also clock mileage to your desire but who would do that since it is illegal?

[ENDEE666]

Funny thing is I already had a friend do that last year on the 04 cluster I have so the mileage was legit. Yes, I INCREASED the miles on a cluster lol. At the time, my last inspection was at like 120k miles and the 04 cluster showed like 78k. So it would have flagged at inspection anyway. So I made it correct..

But car runs fine now, I have the 04 cluster in with the good LCD and the immo light covered. All good..