6MT Vs Tiptronic??

[zuku26]

So I'm shopping for an A4 Pretty much have everything decided on what I want and now debated whether I want 6mt or tiptronic. I'm a huge fan of old school manual but I hear people saying how the tiptronic performs better and is quicker

[Boxmods360]

do you want to go Big Turbo?

[{PMS}fishy]

Nothing about the automatic is better. This shouldn't even be a debate. 6MT.

[CystmX]

6MT hands down.

[2007B7cabrio]

Nothing about the automatic is better. This shouldn't even be a debate. 6MT.

^X2, the B7 Tip is not better or faster than a MT6, the new DSG is faster than most manual drivers but it is not available for the B7

[Coderedpl]

Buy the 6MT and trade me for my tip lolzzz

[zuku26]

so there you have it. I was under the impression that the tip with paddle shifts on the 08 was the DSG.... I guess not. So the search continues for a 6mt. Currently I have no plans for big turbo, but.... I said I had planned on keeping my current Mazdaspeed Protege stock. LOL A complete build later the MSP is no longer a great daily driver LOL But man is she fast!

[bigblue]

Lol if you wanna go big turbo you can go ahead and buy a 6mt and then destroy expensive clutch setups and get towed home... you can spend liike $1500 on a tip transmission and make it bullet proof and shift from gear to gear in .43 seconds or you can spent 1800 on a good clutch setup and hope it lasts. At least thats how it is in the b6 section...

[BASARAB]

Even though driving manual is fun in Metro Detroit, I am hating it with a passion when I occasionally drive in Chicago

[Brrman]

Love my Tip. I don't miss the extra couple tenths of a second getting from 0-60 mph... If its for non-BT daily driver in the city I would always get a tip.

[mr shickadance]

Lol if you wanna go big turbo you can go ahead and buy a 6mt and then destroy expensive clutch setups and get towed home... you can spend liike $1500 on a tip transmission and make it bullet proof and shift from gear to gear in .43 seconds or you can spent 1800 on a good clutch setup and hope it lasts. At least thats how it is in the b6 section...

there are a few people who have BAT'd their cars and still running their stock clutch with no problems......i thought the tip was weaker in comparison to the 6spd and more fragile and more expensive to fix if either or broke

[Sprode]

A drive from DC to Baltimore in Friday afternoon traffic right before my purchase convinced me to get a tip. If this is just your DD, and if Chicago traffic is anywhere close to DC traffic, I see no reason to not get an automatic

[Jay-Bee]

I've been driving manual for almost 12 years now... it's like a natural reaction for me. I've drivin in almost every major city in Canada and all across Canada from east to west... I will never take an auto over a manual, I don't care if it's bumper to bumper traffic crawling along for 2+ hours.

6MT + slippery road surfaces + traction control off = shit-eating-grin

[davis449]

I've been driving manual for almost 12 years now... it's like a natural reaction for me. I've drivin in almost every major city in Canada and all across Canada from east to west... I will never take an auto over a manual, I don't care if it's bumper to bumper traffic crawling along for 2+ hours.

6MT + slippery road surfaces + traction control off = shit-eating-grin

You say this, but I will tell you that coming from a Stage II+ 6MT B7 2.0T Quattro, having learned to drive on a manual tranny, and having driven autos in the time in between that this equation is just as true:

DSG + slippery road surfaces + traction control off = shit-eating-grin

Too bad you can't get one in a B7 nor B8 A4, so I have to go with you on this one.

[elwigglero]

Lol if you wanna go big turbo you can go ahead and buy a 6mt and then destroy expensive clutch setups and get towed home... you can spend liike $1500 on a tip transmission and make it bullet proof and shift from gear to gear in .43 seconds or you can spent 1800 on a good clutch setup and hope it lasts. At least thats how it is in the b6 section...

Still a slushbox that robs power.

[QUATTROA4B7]

DSG + slippery road surfaces + traction control off = shit-eating-grin

Sure you can have fun with DSG and traction control off, but if it doesn't have a clutch, it isn't the same!!

Still a slushbox that robs power.

+1

The fact that the tip. trans. is more fragile than the 6mt trans, and the fact that it robs some of the power
is enough to keep me away from it. More importantly, you don't get the full feel /experience of driving the car
if it is an automatic IMO.

[Sprode]

I've been driving manual for almost 12 years now... it's like a natural reaction for me. I've drivin in almost every major city in Canada and all across Canada from east to west... I will never take an auto over a manual, I don't care if it's bumper to bumper traffic crawling along for 2+ hours.

6MT + slippery road surfaces + traction control off = shit-eating-grin

You say that, but I somehow doubt you are in those 2+ hours of traffic every day. Nothing personal, but comparing Northern Alberta to DC traffic is like comparing apples and monkeys. It just doesn't work. He's already got a built MT car, and the tip is really quite buttery.

[GarrettReid]

Well if you want a manual, get the manual transmission. But if you want an automatic, buy the tiptronic. Pretty much the best advice I can give.

I have a CVT, and alot of people CVT-hatin' but it gets me around town OK.

[maidest]

A drive from DC to Baltimore in Friday afternoon traffic right before my purchase convinced me to get a tip. If this is just your DD, and if Chicago traffic is anywhere close to DC traffic, I see no reason to not get an automatic

if you want the real experience of driving and controlling the car then you get manual, that's the main reason. true driver's don't mind any amount of traffic or bumper to bumper, it's just the art of full control and driving the car. simple as that. that's how i feel at least i understand that some people don't want to bother with the clutch but i personally enjoy it.

[b7a4GT30]

First of all a BT b7 a4 with the proper clutch it will be reliable and last. If your going to do a BT def dont go tip because your tourque converter will definantly go and so will the tranny eventually (coming from a stage 3 tip b5 s4!)

[Kim]

A drive from DC to Baltimore in Friday afternoon traffic right before my purchase convinced me to get a tip. If this is just your DD, and if Chicago traffic is anywhere close to DC traffic, I see no reason to not get an automatic

Lol I live in Manila and have lived in the US and UK as well and I can pretty much tell you that you have no idea how bad the traffic is over here. Having said that, you will still never make me buy an auto. Especially in our cars with inherent understeer, I would want the option of using the tranny and throttle of balancing the car. 2 hours of traffic? Try 3-4 hours over 12-15 miles. But when the roads are free nothing will ever come close to the freedom of the 6MT.

Shifts slower? Only if you really shift slow.... you should be shifting at 200-300 milliseconds.

[Sprode]

if you want the real experience of driving and controlling the car then you get manual, that's the main reason. true driver's don't mind any amount of traffic or bumper to bumper, it's just the art of full control and driving the car. simple as that. that's how i feel at least i understand that some people don't want to bother with the clutch but i personally enjoy it.

Any of you "True drivers" have another car that is already built and 6mt? I truly understand your love for a manual, but in OP's situation, much like mine, I can drive the supra when I want to, but some days, it is really nice to just sit in the Audi and go.

[Kim]

Any of you "True drivers" have another car that is already built and 6mt? I truly understand your love for a manual, but in OP's situation, much like mine, I can drive the supra when I want to, but some days, it is really nice to just sit in the Audi and go.

You are correct too and that would be the way to go. I think the OP though has the option of a single car, so there.

[Sprode]

You are correct too and that would be the way to go. I think the OP though has the option of a single car, so there.

He said he had a built MSP

so there you have it. I was under the impression that the tip with paddle shifts on the 08 was the DSG.... I guess not. So the search continues for a 6mt. Currently I have no plans for big turbo, but.... I said I had planned on keeping my current Mazdaspeed Protege stock. LOL A complete build later the MSP is no longer a great daily driver LOL But man is she fast!

[Kim]

Yes but it wasn't explicitly clear if the MSP was MT also. I can't live with not having a MT :)

[Sprode]

Yes but it wasn't explicitly clear if the MSP was MT also. I can't live with not having a MT :)

touche.

[davis449]

Lol if you wanna go big turbo you can go ahead and buy a 6mt and then destroy expensive clutch setups and get towed home... you can spend liike $1500 on a tip transmission and make it bullet proof and shift from gear to gear in .43 seconds or you can spent 1800 on a good clutch setup and hope it lasts. At least thats how it is in the b6 section...

This is a joke right? You say all this sarcastically, right? "Bulletproof" Tiptronic? LOL! I don't know who in the B6 section keeps blowing up clutches, but they must be buying shitty clutches or skimping out and buying the wrong clutch for the amount of power their putting out.

Sure you can have fun with DSG and traction control off, but if it doesn't have a clutch, it isn't the same!!

You're right...it's better.

if you want the real experience of driving and controlling the car then you get manual, that's the main reason. true driver's don't mind any amount of traffic or bumper to bumper, it's just the art of full control and driving the car. simple as that. that's how i feel at least i understand that some people don't want to bother with the clutch but i personally enjoy it.

I 100% guarantee you can't control your car with a 6MT any better than I can control mine with a DSG (we're leaving Tiptronics and CVT's out of this because I want to argue the "control factor" you claim here). I also guarantee you won't ever be able to shift that 6MT as fast either. You 6MT "purists" need to get off this bullshit where you tell everyone that you can't have as much control without a clutch. When it comes to the newest advances in transmission technology, you're all just flat out wrong. Now the end of your statement regarding your personal opinion is fine. If you prefer it, great for you, but as long as you don't go around picking on superior technology that proves exactly what you say wrong, it's cool.

[Kim]

I'm sorry davis, but the fact that you only see the clutch as a means of shifting gears as a way of controlling the car is already completely wrong. Please do yourself a favor and give yourself the gift of a driving or racing school and you will know what even basic car control means.

I'll give you a clue....when you have the ability to disconnect the engine from the transmission on the fly and not let the engine revolutions dictate the rotating axles and driveshafts, magic can happen.

[elwigglero]

I 100% guarantee you can't control your car with a 6MT any better than I can control mine with a DSG (we're leaving Tiptronics and CVT's out of this because I want to argue the "control factor" you claim here). I also guarantee you won't ever be able to shift that 6MT as fast either. You 6MT "purists" need to get off this bullshit where you tell everyone that you can't have as much control without a clutch. When it comes to the newest advances in transmission technology, you're all just flat out wrong. Now the end of your statement regarding your personal opinion is fine. If you prefer it, great for you, but as long as you don't go around picking on superior technology that proves exactly what you say wrong, it's cool.

I'm with you on DSG providing significantly more control than a standard auto, with lightning fast shifts (much faster than a person could manage) and no torque converter, but I still prefer the 6mt because I'd miss the clutch. I have a friend who went from a 6mt to an EVO w/ DSG and he loved it for a few months and then started missing the connected feeling he got with the clutch/gearbox. He's now shopping again.

From a performance standpoint, DSG wins all day, but from a driving standpoint, I'm still going with 6MT. Just my personal preference. It doesn't hurt that I don't often drive in heavy traffic. If I did, I'd prob be a bit more open to a DSG.

[Jay-Bee]

You say that, but I somehow doubt you are in those 2+ hours of traffic every day. Nothing personal, but comparing Northern Alberta to DC traffic is like comparing apples and monkeys. It just doesn't work. He's already got a built MT car, and the tip is really quite buttery.

Not to get nit picky but i've lived (or spent time during contracts) in Montreal, Quebec City, Toronto and Vancouver, my daily commute up north here at the moment from town to the workplace is a 140km round trip on one of the busiest non-urban highways in Canada.

Pretty much comes down to what the OP is expecting out of a car, my personal opinion/preference may not be seen at the best choice by others, that's all there is to it.

[mbhockey13]

I think if you're younger than 60 or not a woman you get the manual - otherwise, get the tip.

I won't buy a car without three pedals. When my dealer had my '07 A4 6MT, they gave me an '08 A4 Tip as a loaner and it was a different driving experience. It made me appreciate how much I love having the stick. Honestly, I don't know how guys do it with the tip, unless they are just driving around getting groceries or going to bingo or something. I hated it.

[QUATTROA4B7]

I'm sorry davis, but the fact that you only see the clutch as a means of shifting gears as a way of controlling the car is already completely wrong. Please do yourself a favor and give yourself the gift of a driving or racing school and you will know what even basic car control means.

I'll give you a clue....when you have the ability to disconnect the engine from the transmission on the fly and not let the engine revolutions dictate the rotating axles and driveshafts, magic can happen.

QFT

[Kim]

From a performance standpoint, DSG wins all day, but from a driving standpoint, I'm still going with 6MT. Just my personal preference. It doesn't hurt that I don't often drive in heavy traffic. If I did, I'd prob be a bit more open to a DSG.

How can you say that from a "performance" standpoint, it wins all day. DSG trannies are not only heavier in dry weight but in overall weight as well. They are also more mechanically inefficient which results in more drivetrain loss. Third is the same for any twin-clutch transmission; the tranny cannot always keep the engine at its best speed for both power or even economy. Fourth is that unless you have S-tronic or R-tronic you cannot say that you have consistently better shifting times. Decent drivers will do 200-300 milliseconds.

Audi's claimed shifting time is 200ms but you have to remember that that is with anticipated shifts. If you try to drive spiritedly or take your car to the track where you have to shift from fourth to 1st or 2nd in an instant you will take more than 1 full second to shift.

[Jay-Bee]

This is a joke right? You say all this sarcastically, right? "Bulletproof" Tiptronic? LOL! I don't know who in the B6 section keeps blowing up clutches, but they must be buying shitty clutches or skimping out and buying the wrong clutch for the amount of power their putting out.

You're right...it's better.

I 100% guarantee you can't control your car with a 6MT any better than I can control mine with a DSG (we're leaving Tiptronics and CVT's out of this because I want to argue the "control factor" you claim here). I also guarantee you won't ever be able to shift that 6MT as fast either. You 6MT "purists" need to get off this bullshit where you tell everyone that you can't have as much control without a clutch. When it comes to the newest advances in transmission technology, you're all just flat out wrong. Now the end of your statement regarding your personal opinion is fine. If you prefer it, great for you, but as long as you don't go around picking on superior technology that proves exactly what you say wrong, it's cool.

DSG is not an option on B7 so quit trolling. This is a MT vs AT B7 A4 topic.

And Kim you hit the nail dead on with what you said.

[Sprode]

How can you say that from a "performance" standpoint, it wins all day. DSG trannies are not only heavier in dry weight but in overall weight as well. They are also more mechanically inefficient which results in more drivetrain loss. Third is the same for any twin-clutch transmission; the tranny cannot always keep the engine at its best speed for both power or even economy. Fourth is that unless you have S-tronic or R-tronic you cannot say that you have consistently better shifting times. Decent drivers will do 200-300 milliseconds.

Audi's claimed shifting time is 200ms but you have to remember that that is with anticipated shifts. If you try to drive spiritedly or take your car to the track where you have to shift from fourth to 1st or 2nd in an instant you will take more than 1 full second to shift.

Expand on point three please: why can a dsg not hold a specific rpm like a standard manual?

Sent from my Droid using Tapatalk

[Stewy]

6MT FTW!

[Kim]

I didn't actually say that it cannot, rather that it cannot always. We're also talking about two scenarios with DSG wherein you leave it on full auto or tiptronic, vs manual where you have a quicker and more complete control when going at a certain speed or even incline, at which gear and RPM you want to put it on. You have the use of the clutch which you can slip so that for example, coming out of a corner you are exactly at the right powerband that you want to be in.

[mr shickadance]

i gotta side with davis on this debate right now

from a racing stand point, DSG is a better alternative, most amatuer racers are now pairing up with a dsg gearbox instead of the 6 speeds they are used too because they shift faster and perform better then a human operating a clutch can......from a strict racing stand point, the DSG wins

from a daily driving stand point, the 6 speed is where its at in my opinion.... why? because you dont race your car 100% of the time, and because shifting is fun, hell its so much fun that it still exists today even tho there are better transmissions out there (read: automatic of all kinds) the dsg is simply a tap of the paddle, not the foot down, arm movement into gear feeling of connectedness,

and to touch on city driving.....and TRUE driver.....is going to drive whatever the hell makes them the most happy, if a person really likes a 6 speed, he is prolly gonna put up with the traffic, if a person works a long effing day and at the end of it does not want to work out his bottom half on the commute home, they will end up with a auto.....no one says you can;t be a true driver and have an automatic car....

bottom line, its all in the application you are seeking, racers.....real racers, see the DSG as a huge step forward in transmission progression, some people still argue this fact but at the end of the day its physically impossible to shift as quickly as the dsg does, so with the small amount of time you lose while shifting, the DSG will have the advantage and get the pull.

[davis449]

I'm sorry davis, but the fact that you only see the clutch as a means of shifting gears as a way of controlling the car is already completely wrong. Please do yourself a favor and give yourself the gift of a driving or racing school and you will know what even basic car control means.

I'll give you a clue....when you have the ability to disconnect the engine from the transmission on the fly and not let the engine revolutions dictate the rotating axles and driveshafts, magic can happen.

I was actually REALLY hoping you'd say that. I just did PSDS in Birmingham, AL at Barber Motorsport (THE most track time of ANY driving school out there) back in October 2010 (The 2-Day Performance Class, not the one day intro. bullshit). Not only did I perform better on the track in the PDK 911 Carrera S, but in the PDK Cayman S as well. You already know my history with manual transmissions as stated in above posts, so I do, in fact, know how to drive one very well. To add to that, ask any of the instructors (min. 10 yrs. experience each, all them have to be active race car drivers) what they prefer and what makes their times better, every single one of them replied "PDK, of course!". And this "magic" you speak of when disconnecting the drive train from the axles isn't "magic" at all. It slows you down. You see, properly taking a corner requires downshift during your exit. Your whole heel\toe action and shifting takes place after you've braked hard before the corner and then trail braked through it. That's when you blip the throttle to rev match into you're lower gear. There's no "magic" that happens there. That dual clutch transmission will do so with the flick of a button so you're more concentrated on how you've just entered, gone through, and are exiting that corner. Before you respond, don't bother. I'll take the words of 5 professionals with 10+ years on a track over your word all day long. So why don't you "please do yourself a favor and give yourself the gift of a driving or racing school and you will know what even basic car control means."

I'm with you on DSG providing significantly more control than a standard auto, with lightning fast shifts (much faster than a person could manage) and no torque converter, but I still prefer the 6mt because I'd miss the clutch. I have a friend who went from a 6mt to an EVO w/ DSG and he loved it for a few months and then started missing the connected feeling he got with the clutch/gearbox. He's now shopping again.

From a performance standpoint, DSG wins all day, but from a driving standpoint, I'm still going with 6MT. Just my personal preference. It doesn't hurt that I don't often drive in heavy traffic. If I did, I'd prob be a bit more open to a DSG.

Absolutely. I do miss the stick shift on occasion. I steal my friends MK6 6MT when I do.

How can you say that from a "performance" standpoint, it wins all day. DSG trannies are not only heavier in dry weight but in overall weight as well. They are also more mechanically inefficient which results in more drivetrain loss. Third is the same for any twin-clutch transmission; the tranny cannot always keep the engine at its best speed for both power or even economy. Fourth is that unless you have S-tronic or R-tronic you cannot say that you have consistently better shifting times. Decent drivers will do 200-300 milliseconds.

Audi's claimed shifting time is 200ms but you have to remember that that is with anticipated shifts. If you try to drive spiritedly or take your car to the track where you have to shift from fourth to 1st or 2nd in an instant you will take more than 1 full second to shift.

This is advice coming from someone who has either never driven a dual clutch transmission or doesn't know how to handle one. Hint, if you take you fucking foot off the gas, that 1 full second to shift becomes FAR less. Also, you do realize the S. Tronic and DSG are the exact same, right? R. Tronic, however is not a dual clutch transmission. I also suppose you've never seen this video:

997 Turbo PDK Vs. 997 Turbo Manual


There's also another one out there of a 997 C2S equipped with PDK spanking a manual 997 Turbo to 100 MPH in a demonstration of just how damn fast dual clutches are. When I find it, I'll post it, too.

I didn't actually say that it cannot, rather that it cannot always. We're also talking about two scenarios with DSG wherein you leave it on full auto or tiptronic, vs manual where you have a quicker and more complete control when going at a certain speed or even incline, at which gear and RPM you want to put it on. You have the use of the clutch which you can slip so that for example, coming out of a corner you are exactly at the right powerband that you want to be in.

To finish this off, my real world experience with my DSG says your claim about the DSG never being able to keep engine speed for both economy and performance driving is COMPLETE bullshit. This transmission has NO problem rev matching quickly within Audi's advertised specs (up or downshifting) when driven properly or when put in S mode where it's fully Auto, it reads pretty damn well with almost zero gear hunting. I so much as tapped the brakes at over 100 MPH, that SOB down shifted lighting fast to keep the engine where it needed to be in both up and downhill situations. I tested this in the mountains outside Vegas two weeks ago on the way to and from Wuste 2011.

and to touch on city driving.....and TRUE driver.....is going to drive whatever the hell makes them the most happy, if a person really likes a 6 speed, he is prolly gonna put up with the traffic, if a person works a long effing day and at the end of it does not want to work out his bottom half on the commute home, they will end up with a auto.....no one says you can;t be a true driver and have an automatic car....

Exactly.

[elwigglero]

How can you say that from a "performance" standpoint, it wins all day. DSG trannies are not only heavier in dry weight but in overall weight as well. They are also more mechanically inefficient which results in more drivetrain loss. Third is the same for any twin-clutch transmission; the tranny cannot always keep the engine at its best speed for both power or even economy. Fourth is that unless you have S-tronic or R-tronic you cannot say that you have consistently better shifting times. Decent drivers will do 200-300 milliseconds.

Audi's claimed shifting time is 200ms but you have to remember that that is with anticipated shifts. If you try to drive spiritedly or take your car to the track where you have to shift from fourth to 1st or 2nd in an instant you will take more than 1 full second to shift.

S-Tronic is DSG. You're prob not rowing gears on a b7 gearbox in 200 milliseconds. Regardless, according to VAG, the DSG upshifts in 8 milliseconds. You can hold a consistent rpm all day long by putting the DSG into manual mode and keeping your fingers off of the paddles.

Shifting from 4th to 1st? Try that in a manual and let me know how it works out for you.