Brake temps at track days

[aaron1085]

Does anyone know what kind of AVERAGE temperature brake pads will get to during a 20min session while mounted on a 2007 A4? I'm no race car driver and am using stock calipers. I'm more of a beginner/intermediate track day guy (1-2 events per summer). But some pads will say they have a max temp of 500 degrees where at which point, there is a chance of boiling or melting the pad...Problem is, I have no idea what an average baseline would be.

anyone?!

[windsorblue]

Sorry, I can't tell you exact temps. However, I can tell you that temps will get over 500 degrees(my best guess is around 800). The stock calipers and rotors are well-sized on your car so, a simple pad/fluid upgrade will suffice. I also like the Tyrolsport caliper bushing upgrade as well.

I've used pads from a variety of different companies and have had the best overall experience with Carbotech. If you are a beginner on street tires, the XP-8 compound should work well. If you order direct from Carbotech, they will give you a discount for being an ACNA member. Use Motul RBF600 fluid and you will be good.

Any questions feel free to PM me.
Tom

[aaron1085]

Tom,

I appreciate the reply. As I said, I used OEM pads last year (brake set up was ALL stock) and was running all-season tires. This year I've added SS brake lines and slotted rotors. I will also be mounting Hankook R-S3's (clearly, I am getting into this track day thing!!!)

The stock pads held up 'ok'. As I said, I could see alittle bubbling on the top of one of the front pads, but no other issues. Debating on throwing on some carbotech's, but StopTech's offer a much cheaper option. MAIN problem is I want to switch pads between street and track events on the same rotors and have been told this may be an issue.

May just pull the trigger on new rotors for strictly track duty...

[windsorblue]

Tom,

I appreciate the reply. As I said, I used OEM pads last year (brake set up was ALL stock) and was running all-season tires. This year I've added SS brake lines and slotted rotors. I will also be mounting Hankook R-S3's (clearly, I am getting into this track day thing!!!)

The stock pads held up 'ok'. As I said, I could see alittle bubbling on the top of one of the front pads, but no other issues. Debating on throwing on some carbotech's, but StopTech's offer a much cheaper option. MAIN problem is I want to switch pads between street and track events on the same rotors and have been told this may be an issue.

May just pull the trigger on new rotors for strictly track duty...

An extra set of rotors is a good idea. FWIW, Carbotech says it is no problem to use their street pads and their track pads on the same rotors, but I had some bedding-in issues so I'll probably pick-up an extra set of rotors before I go back to the track. Don't forget about your ACNA discount with Carbotech. If it is worth anything at all to you, Carbotech is a family-owned and operated company that makes their products in the 'States and will do a sub 1-week turnaround on any pads they do not have in stock, for no additional fee. My experiences with the company have been nothing short of great; I can't recommend them enough.

[carguy138]

I have the same car and had the same problems you mention except when I came off the track my pads were literally smoking. On the track they would get mushy after a lap or two.

To fix this I went with,

Hawk PLUS pads (change them out a week before the event)
Motul 600 fluid
SS brake lines
Drilled Rotors

The combination of this made a dramatic difference in my braking, I would start braking in zone 3 with the stock setup, with this setup I could start braking in between zone 1 and 2.

The plus track pads were absolutely awesome on the track but are much more aggressive on the rotors and squeal like crazy whenever you come to a stop. From my personal experience I would run the stock setup for DD, and swap pads/rotors several days before the event. This will give you the best combination of braking for the conditions.

[foozed]

Just back from my first track day w the b8 s4 on stock brakes ( stock everything except springs). Was able to get 3 full hard sessions out them. 6k miles on my car and stock brakes and they held up much better then I expected. I did flush to blue racing fluid last week however. Anyway my fronts were pretty torn up at the end of the third session at VIR today. Looks like the brake pads melted onto the rotor and they had tons of vibration, almost scratching like toward the end.
Honestly though I still hd braking power it was just pulsating rough and scratchy if that makes sense.

The car impressed me today. Suspension w the h&r's was great, and the power was plentiful. I was faster than many cars out there today. The stock tires also held up GREAT. Better than my limit anyway. Can't want to put some r compounds on with some better pads. I think this car is going to hang well.

[windsorblue]

Just back from my first track day w the b8 s4 on stock brakes ( stock everything except springs). Was able to get 3 full hard sessions out them. 6k miles on my car and stock brakes and they held up much better then I expected. I did flush to blue racing fluid last week however. Anyway my fronts were pretty torn up at the end of the third session at VIR today. Looks like the brake pads melted onto the rotor and they had tons of vibration, almost scratching like toward the end.
Honestly though I still hd braking power it was just pulsating rough and scratchy if that makes sense.

The car impressed me today. Suspension w the h&r's was great, and the power was plentiful. I was faster than many cars out there today. The stock tires also held up GREAT. Better than my limit anyway. Can't want to put some r compounds on with some better pads. I think this car is going to hang well.

Get the blue fluid OUT of your braking system, it is not compatible with the seals in VW/Audi braking systems. If you don't believe me(10yrs on the track in VWs and Audis, former certified VW tech), search Vortex, AW, etc.... Use Motul RBF600 if you want the highest temp fluid that is compatible with the VW/Audi system. DO NOT USE ATE(blue or gold) BRAKE FLUID ON THESE CARS!!!!

Sorry for being negative, I've seen too many problems related to that fluid.

Enjoy the track!

[foozed]

Not seeing too much on that forum - still searching though. Hope the damage isn't already done after the track day.. but no probs if i have to flush and put the motul in.

at least it will be easy to bleed going from blue to yellow again :)

[windsorblue]

Not seeing too much on that forum - still searching though. Hope the damage isn't already done after the track day.. but no probs if i have to flush and put the motul in.

at least it will be easy to bleed going from blue to yellow again :)

No permanent damage will result from short-term use.

It mostly seems to make the seals drag in the braking system and is a bit spongier in overall pedal feel. It has ruined more than one clutch master cylinder that I know of.

RBF 600 is expensive, get some cheaper OE fluid from the dealer(VW uses the same stuff if they are closer, cheaper, or both, PN: B 000 750 M2), flush the system with that, then replace with Motul. Don't forget the flush and replace the fluid in the clutch system, if applicable.

[aaron1085]

rocking the slotted rotors as of a year ago, but am unsure if solid rotors may actually perform a bit better (not chew up pads as much) with my skill level... no race car driver by any means; I've done a few HPDE track days.

Also...ceramic pads arent cutting it on the track. (not that that should surprise you) but... need to upgrade without breaking the bank.

[sekaring]

i agree with you with the ceramic pads.

[aaron1085]

meaning.....??? they dont hold up on track?

[bigdo26]

meaning.....??? they dont hold up on track?

I overheated my Hawk HP Plus pads last time I tracked the car, although I didn't have the rears in, so the fronts were overworked. Best is to go with a real track only pad for the track days with dedicated rotors, and go back to stock pads/rotors for daily driving. I'll let you know my full set (front & rears) of Hawk HP+ with new rotors works in a couple weeks at the track, but I'm expecting they'll start to fade after 20 minutes or so.

[belinko]

I currently swap pads one week prior to the HDPE. This allows proper bed in time. I use project mu pads (a little pricey IMHO, but work great). Type NS for street 0-400°C and Type HC+ for track 0-800°C.



I don't swap rotors, because my pads are compatible with each other. Many pads are not.

Obviously track pads have a more aggressive compound, at lower rotor temps there is increased wear and can have less cold bite (street driving).

Motul RBF 600 is the preferred brake fluid used by most ACNA members.

I have seen some people go off track on stock OEM brakes (especially here in SoCal at our desert tracks), it's all about heat capacity. If the pedal becomes spongy it's time to pull off the track, even if you have 15mins left in your session.

$.02

[aaron1085]

I checked out the MU sight, but no pricing or really fitment selections...what kind of ball park in pricing are we talking? I'm slightly leaning towards the carbotechs, but unsure yet.

[belinko]

$300+ for a set of pads

[aaron1085]

PureMS had slightly better pricing. pulled the trigger and put the carbotechs to the test last week. they were great. I used XP10's front and rear and was impressed with their performance. I did sense a bit of fade towards the end of each session, but considering the car was on r-comps and its a heavy Audi, its expected.

[Blackdogracing]

We are about to race our stage3 Audi in a 13 hour endurance race and will be on new aerorotors, stop tech 355 bbk and carbotech xp20 front, xp8 rear, castrol srf fluids. Cross drilled rotors not good btw, don't use unless that is all you have ;)

[aaron1085]

tell me how your brakes hold up...granted a BBK is always the way to go compared to OEM calipers. what kind of rotors, solid? not drilled or slotted at all?

[foozed]

Why the comment on drilled being no good? I just assumed that was a proper track setup since just about every enthusiast there has either drilled or slotted - not solid.

[aaron1085]

From what I have read and seen drilled rotors perform very well on the track, however can crack under normal driving conditions between different temperatures. Slotted rotors seem to have a nominal effect on breaking and do cause increased pad wear. Solid rotors that are light weight are probably the way to go for someone who is not a professional racer. I will probably look into lightweight solidh rotors in the future but does a be expensive as well so perhaps just OEM solid rotors...