2 Serp belts thrown and now and explosion of oil

[B6JoeS4]

Hey guys, I did some work on a friend of mine's 05 S4 with 78k on it. Here's the story....

• He brings the car to me for an oil change. I change the oil and reccomend that he does his valve cover gaskets and replace the serpentine belt.

• About a week later I change the valve cover gaskets with the full victor-reinz kit and replace just the belt with the Continental belt

• About a week later, he calls me and tells me that battery light is on and by the time he get's home, the car dies I go look at the car that day, and guess what....yeah it threw the belt. we got the the stealership and get a new OEM belt and I tear the front end off again....in the rain

• I get the front end off and pull off the broken belt that happened to be resting in the engine bay. The belt look like something sheared off about 5mm from one side of it. he admitted to me that he was being hard on the car when it happened. So i put on the new Audi belt, button it up and it runs great (this was yesterday mind you)

• Today, he calls me with the same issue, battery light on. This time he was cruising in 6th at 45mph when it happened. He brings the car to my house and the car is dripping oil from the bottom front of the engine. I get out my light and inspect and it threw the belt again....this time the belt is nowhere to be found. Here is where I am stumped, the front of the motor is now DRENCHED in oil. Looks like it is coming from more the driver's side. The oil is on the entire face of the engine-top to bottom.

So what the fuck is happening here? Why would the car throw 2 belts and now the second time the front of the motor is drenched in oil? He is going on vacation for the next week so i have some time. I'd like to fix it instead of him taking it to the dealer. I called JHM and keaton is going to ask jay and get back to me on it.

My current thought is one of two things: Original pulleys are worn causing the belt to snap and upon the belt being thrown, it hit some oil line somewhere? Aux. rad feed maybe? OR.....the crank seal/bearing is bad causing two things: the crank pulley vibrates causing the belt to be thrown and the bad seal causes, well, the oil everywhere.

[ngng]

There is a seal on the front of the motor that may have been ripped out when the belt was thrown, check to see if it's still there. It should be behind the crank pulley.

[Mr. Corey]

I had a similar issue with my jeep last year. I changed the water pump, but the belt was just far enough off that it was barely touching the tranny coolant return line at highway speed. Check to see if the tensor is ok and if the idler pulley is sitting correctly. Maybe the belt might of hit an oil line like you are thinking. Even if it just barley touched an oil line, it would be enough to puncture a small leak in it to cause a mess. Also sounds like that its only happening at a decent driving speed so maybe the air flow is moving a loose oil/coolant line just enough to hit the belt and break it. Thats a bummer..... sounds like its something relatively simple. Just a PITA because its a tight fit.

[ngng]

I would also say, make sure the belt is seated properly and not off a groove.

[B6JoeS4]

Corey -I think this time I'm going to just pull the whole front clip compeltely off and look at everything

NGNG - I'll look at that seal when I pull of the front end tonight. Do you have to pull the pulley off to see it?

Also, the belt was properly seated both times.

[jhmotard]

bad belt tensioner or locked up pulley?
as for the oil leak, i bet a piece of the belt got wedged in behind the crank pulley and took out the seal...

[tylerS]

walk away from the wrenching

[B6JoeS4]

^no need to be a dick. I've done these before. Why this one is being a nightmare is a mystery.

[BCsniper]

I'm surprised all you replaced was the belt. When I replaced mine and I made a point about not replacing the tensioner everyone jumped my case about why I didn't do it and how important it is (even though I don't live in a state that sees a lot of snow and salt on the roads). Everyone says, it's so cheap....why not do it? Because it's $115 and I already threw about $1000 at the problem and I was fed up at the time.


Being that you guys are in the Chicago area I would assume you would have replaced his tensioner and idler pulley when replacing the belt. This just sounds much like the issue beemercer had after he left VAST just after replacing his belt the first time. I have to 2nd ngng's thought that the shredded belt must have broken something when it let loose (I imagine it whipped like a rubber band when it snapped)

[B6JoeS4]

Believe me I believe in replacing them too but the owner of the car didn't want to. He said he'd rather wait until they fail. We get lots of salt here.

So now that we kind of have a good idea of why the oil is everywhere, the next question is why the car threw the second belt in the first place. The belt tensioner was torqued to 70ftlbs as itshould, and as mine is, so why did it throw the belt twice. Spinning them by hand, both pulleys spin freely and without and rough feel.

[B6JoeS4]

Beemercer over on EA speculates that the thrown belts are caused by the bad tensioner pulley.. figures. He also said he's seen parts of the belt getting behind the crank pulley and chewing up the front crank seal
found the part number on ETKA for the seal: 079-103-051G. Only $25 on GAP. It's number 7 in this ETKA diagram:


To my surprise, Bentley Manual had an R&R for the front crank seal. Looks pretty straight forward. They illustrate needing a seal puller; question is if i really do need that. And if I do, where the hell do i go about getting one.

[Justincredible]

Joe, where are you at in Chicago are you in near north?

The seal on the block got taken out Im about 95% sure. You definitely need to get a new tensioner for sure. That is a must. The seal isn't too easy to fix. You do need to take the pulley off. Let me know Im going to be home next week for a few days. I can stop by and give you a hand (if you need it)

[B6JoeS4]

Joe, where are you at in Chicago are you in near north?

The seal on the block got taken out Im about 95% sure. You definitely need to get a new tensioner for sure. That is a must. The seal isn't too easy to fix. You do need to take the pulley off. Let me know Im going to be home next week for a few days. I can stop by and give you a hand (if you need it)

Justin that would be great. I'm in Carol Stream which is pretty much in the middle of DuPage. PM'd you

[road race s4]

They illustrate needing a seal puller; question is if i really do need that. And if I do, where the hell do i go about getting one.

You might be able to rent one from AutoZone. They will refund your deposit when you return the tool so its free.

[BCsniper]

Beemercer over on EA speculates that the thrown belts are caused by the bad tensioner pulley.. figures. [/IMG]

What the hell? This is what I just said, right before your post, did you miss this part?

I'm surprised all you replaced was the belt. When I replaced mine and I made a point about not replacing the tensioner everyone jumped my case about why I didn't do it and how important it is (even though I don't live in a state that sees a lot of snow and salt on the roads). Everyone says, it's so cheap....why not do it? Because it's $115 and I already threw about $1000 at the problem and I was fed up at the time.


Being that you guys are in the Chicago area I would assume you would have replaced his tensioner and idler pulley when replacing the belt. This just sounds much like the issue beemercer had after he left VAST just after replacing his belt the first time. I have to 2nd ngng's thought that the shredded belt must have broken something when it let loose (I imagine it whipped like a rubber band when it snapped)

either way, good luck getting everything sorted out

[Mr. Corey]

Let us know how it pans out Joe.

[B6JoeS4]

You might be able to rent one from AutoZone. They will refund your deposit when you return the tool so its free.

I just wonder if it is an Audi-specific seal puller.

What the hell? This is what I just said, right before your post, did you miss this part?
either way, good luck getting everything sorted out

Don't worry sniper, i saw your post.

Let us know how it pans out Joe.

Will do corey. I plan on tearing the car apart again tonight if i have time.

[B5 SLPR]

This happened to my car, no fun

[B6JoeS4]

This happened to my car, no fun

Belts being thrown over and over again or the crank seal taking a head shot from the belt?

[BCsniper]

BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOMM!!!!! Headshot

[B5 SLPR]

Crank seal being taken out when the belts blew

[B6JoeS4]

BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOMM!!!!! Headshot

Lol i'm going to make a funny pic of the old seal and a headshot reference

Crank seal being taken out when the belts blew

Good to know. That pretty much guarantees it's the seal. Thanks for posting

[beemercer]

[B6JoeS4]

UPDATE!!!

Yesterday I got the new crank seal from Audi ($53) so today I decided to tear off the front end again. Here are my findings......

Chunk of belt wrapped around the alternator pulley. This was the only good sized piece of belt I could find. Thankfully, the bearings seem unharmed.


Then once I got the crank pulley off, I found the culprit. Shards of belt wrapped around the crank



Bastards....


So the next step is to swap the seals. However, when I looked at the seal with my little dentist mirror, the seal looked fine. But I'm sure there is something I can't see.

[audivoodoo]

Subscribed, Im interested in learning how you replace this. Basic DIY while your doing it perhaps? Good Luck.

[rirobs4]

Kinda offtopic but how did the belt look at 78k? I just changed mine at 73k and it looked "ok". Changed tensioner and pulley as well. This was the first time I had done it. real easy just time consuming. Problem is I stopped at 7pm because all I had left was putting on the belly pan, and tire and I was tired and it was dark, Figured I would just slap them on in the morning. Got the flu the next norning so the car has been on jack stands for the last 4 days lol. Now I read this and am paranoid about my belt coming loose!!!

[buffalony]

Wow nothing like a simple job turn in to a night mare, So your thinking that the belt came off becasue of the oil leak? When my power steering line blew that shit every where i cant believe i did not have a similar problem....fingers crossed

[Fade2Black]

What a PIA, hope this is resolved for you now.

[B6JoeS4]

Subscribed, Im interested in learning how you replace this. Basic DIY while your doing it perhaps? Good Luck.

Already in the works

Kinda offtopic but how did the belt look at 78k? I just changed mine at 73k and it looked "ok". Changed tensioner and pulley as well. This was the first time I had done it. real easy just time consuming. Problem is I stopped at 7pm because all I had left was putting on the belly pan, and tire and I was tired and it was dark, Figured I would just slap them on in the morning. Got the flu the next norning so the car has been on jack stands for the last 4 days lol. Now I read this and am paranoid about my belt coming loose!!!

Lol don't worry. You canged your tensioner so you will be fine

Wow nothing like a simple job turn in to a night mare, So your thinking that the belt came off becasue of the oil leak? When my power steering line blew that shit every where i cant believe i did not have a similar problem....fingers crossed

Tell me about it......all because the owner wanted to save money and not replace the tensioner. The belt came off because of a bad tensioner pulley. Spinning it by hand, it kind of wobbles. The oil leak was caused by shards of belt getting behind the crank pulley and taking out the main seal.

What a PIA, hope this is resolved for you now.

Thanks

[mbgt72]

Nice work, glad ya got it all figured out. As bad as this was, at least it was just a bad seal and hopefully all is well now. Just proves trying to cheap out on german cars to save money usually results costing a lot more in the end.

[Lefthook]

Wow nothing like a simple job turn in to a night mare, So your thinking that the belt came off becasue of the oil leak? When my power steering line blew that shit every where i cant believe i did not have a similar problem....fingers crossed

that's why I pulled everything apart and used about a box of those blue paper shop towels and a spray bottle full of denatured alcohol. Huge mess.

[Slobo7x]

+1 for blue shop towles, best thing ever :)

[rirobs4]

Already in the works


Lol don't worry. You canged your tensioner so you will be fine


Tell me about it......all because the owner wanted to save money and not replace the tensioner.

Well I just drove it about 20-25 miles doesnt seem to be any issues. At 78K how was his snub mount? Mine at 73k pretty much disintigrated.

[B6JoeS4]

Well I just drove it about 20-25 miles doesnt seem to be any issues. At 78K how was his snub mount? Mine at 73k pretty much disintigrated.

He doesn't beat on his car at all it seems because his was actually in perfect condition. I had to cut it to get it off the nub. But the reason why you replace it is for a firmer mount, even though they are usually trashed when its time to replace it. Mine was non-existent at 84k

[patastinky]

Very good read. Thanks for sharing :-)

[B6JoeS4]

Swapped the seals today and got the car all done. I swear......Audi purposely puts things in the way of every bolt.

I'll have the DIY up tomorrow on EA. Don't feel like typing it today. And I can't put it on this forum because I have two infractions.

[jr1415us]

I'm contemplating doing the crank seal , belt pulley & tensioner myself, but not sure how to proceed with installing the seal. Does the large hole in the middle of the crank have threads? All the seal drivers I've looked at have one large bolt that goes in the middle, so even though our cars have all those 10mm holes for the pulley, I'm not sure if you'd use those to install a new seal.

[Lefthook]

yet another "lessons learned from Joe" thread.. I just replaced my serp and did the tensioner and idler both SOLELY because of this thread. Otherwise I'm sure I would have just done the belt.

So, thanks again Joe.

[B6JoeS4]

I'm contemplating doing the crank seal , belt pulley & tensioner myself, but not sure how to proceed with installing the seal. Does the large hole in the middle of the crank have threads? All the seal drivers I've looked at have one large bolt that goes in the middle, so even though our cars have all those 10mm holes for the pulley, I'm not sure if you'd use those to install a new seal.

Is your crank seal leaking? No reason to replace it if it isn't.

There is a big hex bolt in the middle but you don't remove it for anything. I made a DIY over on AR for it. Just search "crank seal"

[jr1415us]

yea, infortunately it's leaking. Indie shops all quoted around $700 for the belt, pulley, tensioner and crank seal. Think I can do this myself, was just worried about the proper procedure for te seal.