2.0T Camshaft warranty extension and reimbursement

[allstock]

That procedure doesn't work. Makes for a lot of gas spillage. No codes. You're welcome to try.

[Matz03]

So I've scheduled my service app for next week, check engine light came on again after recent service. I've been struggling with the low rpm hesitation for a while now but it seems to be more and more prevalent. It's been more and more common so this time I will also insist they check the cam follower for wear if they tell me it's something else. 2007 with 92k so time to get this fixed is running out.

This is so disappointing that these cars really shouldn't be kept past 100k unless you're a mechanic or want to spend $$$ on expensive replacement parts and labor. I wanted to keep this car for 5+ years still but this issue gives me little confidence.

[spex]

I've owned my 2006 A4 since new. All maintenance done at the dealer. Of course they've never mentioned this issue. Haven't had a CEL. Took my car in to a reputable local shop today for some upgrades and they told me about the cam issue. Sure enough, cam follower is worn completely through. My VIN is in range and odometer is at 91K. This thread has been a huge help.

I'm headed to the dealer tomorrow to get this fixed under warranty. Besides cam shaft, HPFP, and cam follower, what else should be done? Was hoping to keep the car for another 30-50K and don't like the idea of metal bits floating around the engine. Any advice is appreciated.

[audimeister]

Has anyone gotten Audi to honor the warranty on a salvage car? I took my car in a week ago to take car of some things that are better off handled at the dealer (RNS-E issues, other warranty/recall/service bulletins, etc.) and was ready to pay for an inspection before the warranty was up, and was told that because the car has a salvage title the cam follower warranty no longer applies.

I've read it's not legal to deny warranty on a system of the car that would be unaffected by modifications/accident/etc. I've also got slow retractors on my seatbelts, and thought that should be covered by the government mandated ten year safety restraint/airbags warranty?

I'm going to try another dealer, and go to Audi directly if no joy...

If you are aware of a similar case to mine, I'd appreciate hearing about it so I can have some ammo when I go back to discuss.

TIA!

[spex]

I've owned my 2006 A4 since new. All maintenance done at the dealer. Of course they've never mentioned this issue. Haven't had a CEL. Took my car in to a reputable local shop today for some upgrades and they told me about the cam issue. Sure enough, cam follower is worn completely through. My VIN is in range and odometer is at 91K. This thread has been a huge help.

I'm headed to the dealer tomorrow to get this fixed under warranty. Besides cam shaft, HPFP, and cam follower, what else should be done? Was hoping to keep the car for another 30-50K and don't like the idea of metal bits floating around the engine. Any advice is appreciated.

Dropped the car off this morning. Local shop had recommended "remove oil pan and clean rogue metal from pan and oil pump pickup". When I mentioned this to the CSR at Audi he said, "Yeah, there's a filter. We don't need to do that."

[Kinzik]

Dropped off my car this morning at the dealership knowing I had a hole in the follower. I agreed to pay the 140.00 fee to look at the cam and follower, if nothing was wrong then I had to pay. they call me 4 hours later talking about a leaking valve cover and my vacuum pump "might be going out". They didn't even look at the follower or cam. Now they want me to come pick it up and pay without even doing the one thing I agreed to pay for . Service guy said if there was no codes he couldn't look there, wth was I agreeing to pay for then? He is saying I paid 140.00 for an inspection. If I want them to tear apart the fuel pump to look at the follower then its another 140.00 but even if they do that, with no codes they want warranty it. I cleared the stupid codes yesterday after I torn it apart. They wont drive it to get the car to throw codes again. I can get it to throw the codes in 5 seconds if I drive it but the want me to pay the 140 before they let me have it back.... suggestions?

[Charles.waite]

Dropped off my car this morning at the dealership knowing I had a hole in the follower. I agreed to pay the 140.00 fee to look at the cam and follower, if nothing was wrong then I had to pay. they call me 4 hours later talking about a leaking valve cover and my vacuum pump "might be going out". They didn't even look at the follower or cam. Now they want me to come pick it up and pay without even doing the one thing I agreed to pay for . Service guy said if there was no codes he couldn't look there, wth was I agreeing to pay for then? He is saying I paid 140.00 for an inspection. If I want them to tear apart the fuel pump to look at the follower then its another 140.00 but even if they do that, with no codes they want warranty it. I cleared the stupid codes yesterday after I torn it apart. They wont drive it to get the car to throw codes again. I can get it to throw the codes in 5 seconds if I drive it but the want me to pay the 140 before they let me have it back.... suggestions?

Thats bullshit. I did the same thing and straight up told the service advisor I knew it was toast and that I was happy to pay the fee in hopes Audi would come around of covering the issue for 2008s, I wanted to have documented evidence from a dealer as ammunition.

Be polite, but firm and tell them you want them to check the cam follower because that was the whole point of you bringing it in. It literally will take a technician 20 minutes to R&R it.

[Kinzik]

That's what I told him but he said even if they pull it apart and it's destroyed with no code AoA won't warranty it.

[Charles.waite]

That's what I told him but he said even if they pull it apart and it's destroyed with no code AoA won't warranty it.

They may have changed their stated policies but that's still utter bullshit. Find the warranty extension pdf online and bring it to them. Make them read it and explain to you where the extension states that there needs to be a code.

My follower was blown through so badly I'm shocked there wasn't any bottom end damage. But the car ran fine and there were no codes.

[Kinzik]

Called AoA and spoke with them. They called the dealer ship to see what the h$ll they were talking about. I haven't heard anything since. I printed out the warranty info tho. Thanks for the tip. If I get another call from the dealer ship saying they wont fix it they ill be happy to drive down and have them read it word for word.

[Kinzik]

Here is the warranty info if anyone needs it. enjoy

[billyhoyle]

That is rigoddamndiculous. I hope you didn't have to pay the $140 for the work you DIDN'T ask them to do. I can't believe dealerships get away with shit like this.

[Charles.waite]

I don't trust dealers so I make sure it's VERY clear that any work that I haven't specifically asked for them do to they call me before so I can authorize it first. I don't like surprises, haha.

Of corse my car has only been to the dealer for service once, and that was to verify a problem I already knew existed.

[dadman]

Has anyone forced a code or had success showing them the letter?? My story is that years ago when the letter just came out I brought the car in for a service and asked to have the cam and follower done. Although I did have a code I'm not sure which code(s) it was. I waited for the car and after a short time they told me the car was ready, because I ASSumed at that time that they were changing the cam I asked them how it could be done in such a short time. They read my work order again and asked if I had time to wait and I said yes. Less than a half hour later they brought the car out and said that it was done, I said how could they change a camshaft in such a short time? The service manager said "my guys are fast". So after learning that it was a much longer job than that and the fact that nothing looked like it was cleaned or taken apart I figured out that they probably did just the follower and the pump and screwed me on the camshaft. Now I'm stuck with a repair bill that says that they changed the cam and the part is on the parts list. I'm not sure if they would repair it again or even check it seeing that it was done already. I should have confronted them at the time and called AOA...So I spoke to the parts guy at another dealership and asked if the cams had a part # on them, he said yes. So if it was ever taken apart again and I made sure that I got the old cam back, I could prove that it was the original and was never changed. I recently had a similar problem at the same dealership with the covered timing belt job, first they fought the letter that said that the belt job was still covered and then they added $650. in parts (some not even used for that job) and $468. in labor to my free belt job. So I left and went to Audi Meadowlands and they did it for half that price, nice people and a great parts dept.(Audi Online Parts) too. Needless to say I'd love to be able to catch the other dealership in a scam, so if I can get this done it would be great for me and the car....

[Kinzik]

The follower doesn't look that bad, pic from the dealership. I cant tell from the pic if the top is still flat or indented. dealership said this follower is totally fine. Ive had worse looking followers and the car ran a lot better so im stumped.

[allstock]

@dadman

If indeed it was a thirty minute job, camshaft wasn't changed. Typically at least a one night over affair with a loner car while the dealership contacts AoA to get it paid for. AoA covers the cost, not the dealership. Aoa's formal procedure is to have all major components of a warranty job shipped back to headquarters(no exaggeration) IF it(costs) was covered by AOA. A few variables: the dealership doesn't give a damn and doesn't send parts in these situations back, which many of them don't...POSs. How long ago did you go through this, AoA revamped their servers about 2-3 years ago and a lot of past owner history and records were lost. I'd call up AoA and find out first by telling them your situation and asking if those parts involved in a camshaft warranty were sent back. Hopefully you have any type of statements showing that the procedure was done. Good luck

[Kinzik]

So I ended up paying the 140.00 since they were certain the follower had nothing to do with the issue. The final conclusion was they determined it was the cover assembly and breather tube. Off to search the forms for why what fells like fuel cuts is a breather hose... to be contuined. Also they quoted 912.00 to replace it. I always do my own repairs, even minor/cheap ones but holy cow. Almost a grand for that?

[dadman]

@dadman

If indeed it was a thirty minute job, camshaft wasn't changed. Typically at least a one night over affair with a loner car while the dealership contacts AoA to get it paid for. AoA covers the cost, not the dealership. Aoa's formal procedure is to have all major components of a warranty job shipped back to headquarters(no exaggeration) IF it(costs) was covered by AOA. A few variables: the dealership doesn't give a damn and doesn't send parts in these situations back, which many of them don't...POSs. How long ago did you go through this, AoA revamped their servers about 2-3 years ago and a lot of past owner history and records were lost. I'd call up AoA and find out first by telling them your situation and asking if those parts involved in a camshaft warranty were sent back. Hopefully you have any type of
statements showing that the procedure was done. Good luck

It was 7-28-2010, good idea, I called and they said that they don't have access to the returned parts info. They are looking into wether the job can be done more than once under the extension and if it needs the code to be diagnosed for free. According to the parts dept. the cams have part #'s on them and they could easily tell if it's the original cam and not a revision, true or not I don't know. Maybe I should pay for the diagnosis and see what happens...

I also have the timing belt extension letter if anybody needs it posted.

[Charles.waite]

You can also easily tell by the way the HPFP cam love is attached to the cam itself. They changed the design of it between revisions.

[dadman]

You can also easily tell by the way the HPFP cam love is attached to the cam itself. They changed the design of it between revisions.

Do the Audi techs know that? It would be great to see the difference myself, is it easy to explain the difference or are their photos posted?

[Charles.waite]

There are probably photos. I think the old style cam the lobe is ground into the cam while the newer ones I believe it's press fitted.

[redbat]

That's what I told him but he said even if they pull it apart and it's destroyed with no code AoA won't warranty it.

That is a straight-up lie. Mine didn't have a code and it (cam follower, camshaft and hpfp) was covered by Audi under warranty.

Also, I got the same warranty letter and noticed that NOWHERE did it say that the MIL light had to be on to do the work, the part just had to be bad, and then they'd fix it because they care about our safety.

I think mentioning lawyers might be useful in situations like this. Or the local news.

[dadman]

That is a straight-up lie. Mine didn't have a code and it (cam follower, camshaft and hpfp) was covered by Audi under warranty.

Also, I got the same warranty letter and noticed that NOWHERE did it say that the MIL light had to be on to do the work, the part just had to be bad, and then they'd fix it because they care about our safety.

I think mentioning lawyers might be useful in situations like this. Or the local news.

So what did it have, they're telling us that if it has no codes the tech diagnosing it needs to see or feel the problem before they will look inside. They don't just go by what the customer says his symptoms are, usually.

[Charles.waite]

That's still bullshit. I know what he's saying but I am also 100% certain a service advisor who's worked for vw or Audi for more than 1 month knows exactly how prevalent the cam follower failures are and knows that they often are totally shot with zero outward signs of failure. I think they've been told to pretend it's not a big deal or that they've never heard of the problem because they don't want their service department doing a bunch of annoying services because people are paranoid about the failure.

In your case it's completely justified and given the service guys attitude I would just bring my car somewhere else. It's fairly clear he has no interest in listening to you.

The bullshit thing is that they rely on the owner to relate the issues they're experiencing when bringing it in for services. So when he tells you the tech has to figure out what is wrong it's completely the wrong attitude. Next time the guy tried to brush you off like that ask to speak to his manager. I guarantee the manager will care a whole lot more that the service advisor does about making sure you're happy with your experience there and with the work they do. If he doesn't care then I wouldn't let that service department touch my car anyway. If they continue, to be assholes, and you have no other dealer alternatives, call AoA and see what you can have them do on their end to get the dealer to cooperate.

I suspect the reason they're insisting on the code is because when they file for warranty reimbursement from AoA the code makes the case a slam dunk. If they just say "we opened up the HPFP at the customers request and it was toast" they probably need to collect more evidence, pictures written work orders, etc and submit them to AoA for the warranty reimbursement to go through. Basically it sounds like they're lazy as fuck and don't care. Which is why if it were me I would go somewhere else that actually cares about their customers.

[dadman]

That's still bullshit. I know what he's saying but I am also 100% certain a service advisor who's worked for vw or Audi for more than 1 month knows exactly how prevalent the cam follower failures are and knows that they often are totally shot with zero outward signs of failure. I think they've been told to pretend it's not a big deal or that they've never heard of the problem because they don't want their service department doing a bunch of annoying services because people are paranoid about the failure.

In your case it's completely justified and given the service guys attitude I would just bring my car somewhere else. It's fairly clear he has no interest in listening to you.

The bullshit thing is that they rely on the owner to relate the issues they're experiencing when bringing it in for services. So when he tells you the tech has to figure out what is wrong it's completely the wrong attitude. Next time the guy tried to brush you off like that ask to speak to his manager. I guarantee the manager will care a whole lot more that the service advisor does about making sure you're happy with your experience there and with the work they do. If he doesn't care then I wouldn't let that service department touch my car anyway. If they continue, to be assholes, and you have no other dealer alternatives, call AoA and see what you can have them do on their end to get the dealer to cooperate.

I suspect the reason they're insisting on the code is because when they file for warranty reimbursement from AoA the code makes the case a slam dunk. If they just say "we opened up the HPFP at the customers request and it was toast" they probably need to collect more evidence, pictures written work orders, etc and submit them to AoA for the warranty reimbursement to go through. Basically it sounds like they're lazy as fuck and don't care. Which is why if it were me I would go somewhere else that actually cares about their customers.

In all he years that I have dealt with service depts. I have never heard of them going by a customer complaint to rip apart an engine unless they diagnose the problem themselves. If it's toast it's NOT a problem. From what they say AoA says that they will pay for something and then not pay for it, now they want proof by diagnosis AND some king of written documentation from Audi that they will be paid. So they diagnosis the problem, if they find proof that the vehicle NEEDS the repair they then present that to AoA and get some kind of documentable reply. They just did that with my timing belt warranty extension, the letter and my say so were NOT enough. Then they needed an email or phone call from Audi before they would proceed. You can go to all the dealers you want to and talk to their service managers and call Audi to complain but they will not go by what you tell them or past history. They probably have had experience with Audi not paying them and customers that don't want to pay for the repair or even a diagnosis. That doesn't mean that their aren't exceptions, some dealers need the work but in heavily populated areas where you can't even get a appointment that's not the case. I just called AoA and they told me that I have to pay the diagnosis fee but it will be refunded if the parts are bad. So they either need codes or symptoms (not words) to pull it apart for free...

[redbat]

In all he years that I have dealt with service depts. I have never heard of them going by a customer complaint to rip apart an engine unless they diagnose the problem themselves.

That's just the thing, it's NOT "ripping apart an engine" - for an experienced tech, pulling the hpfp is only going to take something like 20 minutes or less, and the cam follower is right there. If the cam follower has a hole in it, then the metal must have gone somewhere, and the proper fix is to replace the camshaft, the hpfp and the follower. Simple (diagnosis-wise).

That doesn't mean that their aren't exceptions, some dealers need the work but in heavily populated areas where you can't even get a appointment that's not the case. I just called AoA and they told me that I have to pay the diagnosis fee but it will be refunded if the parts are bad. So they either need codes or symptoms (not words) to pull it apart for free...

Well, my dealership is in the middle of Silicon Valley, and there are more Audis around here than anywhere else I've ever lived (including L.A.). The problem I have with what your dealer is saying is that they clearly KNOW that if they agree to look at it, they're going to be on the hook for more work.

What (honest) dealership would refuse to be given money to look at a part for a customer? What AoA told you was correct - you pay the fee for the diagnosis, but it'll be refunded if the part is bad. They won't be pulling it apart for free - you'll pay them if the part is ok, and AoA will reimburse them if the part is bad and requires warranty work (and extra parts).

I would highly suggest you find another dealership. If you're in a highly populated area, that shouldn't be too hard.

[redbat]

So what did it have, they're telling us that if it has no codes the tech diagnosing it needs to see or feel the problem before they will look inside. They don't just go by what the customer says his symptoms are, usually.

I pulled the HPFP myself and saw that the cam follower had a massive hole in it. I put it back in, drove it to the dealership, told them the cam follower had a hole in it and that I'd like them to confirm that. I told them I would pay for the labor if they found that it did not have a hole in it. They huffed and puffed a bit, but they did agree to do it, confirmed the problem, and replaced everything under warranty.

Perhaps they did it in my case because if they didn't they would essentially be calling me a liar, and maybe they didn't want to do that. It's probably also true that they mostly deal with people who think that blinker fluid is a real thing, so polite disbelief might be their default mode, and it can be hard to shift them to Trust But Verify.

[Kinzik]

Here's an interesting update for you guys. Got the parts that audi said I needed to have replaced. When I went to start taking the car apart I notice some newer looking parts on the car. The dealer ship did replace the follower and hpfp. I can't tell if they replaced the cam or not. Looks very smooth but it might be orginial. They also replaced the a ton of vacumm lines. From the vacuum pump to the brake cylinder, intake lines, some valve on top of the intake manifold they didn't not change the vacumm pump tho. Oil was also changed, the filter I use wasn't what was in there. The paper work I have from them has no repairs listed at all.

[dadman]

This is not getting anywhere, different dealers in different areas operate with their own set of requirements, most of the time in my experience trying to argue with them (or AoA) gets you nowhere fast and gets you red flagged for future problems. As far as vehicle needs go they are also different, my car probably had the pump and follower done (pump is on the parts but notes say pump was not bad) but I'm 99% sure the cam (also on the list of parts) was not replaced because it was finished in less than half an hour. So I'm in a position of getting them to look at it again and even if they see a new pump and follower, take it to the next step and diagnose whether the cam is the original (if possible). As per the parts guy, the cams have part #'s and if I'm right and can get them to remove it, they will warranty it. My previous posts, and that of others was about forcing a code to get the dealer to look at it and have the code "requirement" that they are requesting to warranty (for whatever their reasons are) the whole job. As per the dealers, with a code the job just gets done, smooth, no bs, easy, satisfies them, Audi and the customer...

[spex]

Just a quick datapoint for those being turned away by dealers because they don't have a code: My car had a worn through cam follower. No CEL, no code, but the dealer (University Audi in Seattle) was able to repair under AofA extended warranty.

[dadman]

Just a quick datapoint for those being turned away by dealers because they don't have a code: My car had a worn through cam follower. No CEL, no code, but the dealer (University Audi in Seattle) was able to repair under AofA extended warranty.

How did they diagnose the problem, what were the symptoms?

[Shanster]

Often times, those suspecting an issue (like fuel cuts) will bring their car into a dealership and pay upfront for any labor to pull the HPFP out and observe the condition of the cam follower. If the cam follower is worn through, they will likely refund (or just not charge) you that labor cost and perform the extended warranty at no cost to you.

[spex]

How did they diagnose the problem, what were the symptoms?

I had taken my car to another shop and they discovered the worn-through cam follower. I took photos. That's all the diagnosis needed.

[dadman]

I had taken my car to another shop and they discovered the worn-through cam follower. I took photos. That's all the diagnosis needed.

No code needed when you have pictures and another shops diagnosis.....LOL. I knew there was more to it than the dealer just fixed it without a code...

[redbat]

No code needed when you have pictures and another shops diagnosis.....LOL. I knew there was more to it than the dealer just fixed it without a code...

I know of a number of people (myself included) who were able to get everything fixed without codes or photos. The correct procedure is for the dealership to do the inspection upon your request, and if the part is confirmed to be bad, proceed with the warranty replacement. If the part is not bad, you should be charged labor for the inspection. Period. AoA should confirm this.

[dadman]

I know of a number of people (myself included) who were able to get everything fixed without codes or photos. The correct procedure is for the dealership to do the inspection upon your request, and if the part is confirmed to be bad, proceed with the warranty replacement. If the part is not bad, you should be charged labor for the inspection. Period. AoA should confirm this.

That's just saying the same thing in a different way. You could always pay for any kind of inspection that you want, no one is debating that. And IF they find something they will include the price of the inspection in the warranty. The previous posts were about NOT paying and NOT taking the chance that after having the parts removed and put back for no reason and wasting a lot of time (my dealers are far away) that you achieved nothing. They were about insuring that the parts were replaced with the newer revision parts, especially for those who plan on keeping the vehicle for some time, having the code pretty much insures that. Like I said before, have the code, no BS , parts changed. If you have to pay or take it apart and take pictures so be it but I would rather know for sure that they are changing the parts.

[vdo]

Hey guys,

I am having a hard time finding information on what years are affected by the bad cam followers. I have a 09 with a engine label date of 04/2008. I read that 2008+ models have the new roller cams and they should be fine along with a timing chain design? My engine code is: CBF and can't find anything about this engine. Thanks

That's just saying the same thing in a different way. You could always pay for any kind of inspection that you want, no one is debating that. And IF they find something they will include the price of the inspection in the warranty. The previous posts were about NOT paying and NOT taking the chance that after having the parts removed and put back for no reason and wasting a lot of time (my dealers are far away) that you achieved nothing. They were about insuring that the parts were replaced with the newer revision parts, especially for those who plan on keeping the vehicle for some time, having the code pretty much insures that. Like I said before, have the code, no BS , parts changed. If you have to pay or take it apart and take pictures so be it but I would rather know for sure that they are changing the parts.

[Charles.waite]

Hey guys,

I am having a hard time finding information on what years are affected by the bad cam followers. I have a 09 with a engine label date of 04/2008. I read that 2008+ models have the new roller cams and they should be fine along with a timing chain design? My engine code is: CBF and can't find anything about this engine. Thanks

Are you a cabriolet? If not, you have a b8 and your engine has the improved roller cam. It's only the B7 era 2.0ts that had the shitty flat cam follower.

[schmiesus]

What he said.

[vdo]

Great. Not a cab, its a A3 sportsback.

Crap, I thought I posted in the a3 section. Does the B8 apply to the a3? I can't find any of the B model references for the a3. Thanks

What he said.