New clutchmasters fx300 fitted, now having problems!

[reco]

Hey Guys,

I just got a fx300 clutch and new dual mass flywheel fitted onto my car.
The car is now shuddering badly with loud hitting noise when the clutch is engaging at first gear, it's not the light shudder, i could see the dashboard jumps up and down, the coke can i had in the cup holder will jump off when I'm trying to engagngthe clutch. I even struggle not to stall the engine.

Both clutch kit and dual mass flywheel are new. As the springs in the flywheel are being hit damn hard when the car shudders, is it going to damage to the flywheel?

What's your experience with FX300? From my research most FX300 slips before it's properly bed in.

[mariosa4]

did you put the original flywheel on or not? if not then it looks like an unbalanced clutch setup

[reco]

The flywheel I put on is brand new luk dual mass flywheel. If the cluth setup is unbalanced, isn't the car going to vibrate even at higher rpm? my car only has problem with engaging, as soon as the clutch is engaged, the car starts to drive very smoothly.

[mariosa4]

so you mean that flywheel is different than clutchmasters? the combination is unbalanced which i had in my case with fx400 and a single mass flywheel. the vibration happens only on low rpm. I also had a vibration when engaging....the only solution is to balance it as a combo

[BNZ TOY]

doesn't sound right. my fx300 has a single mass billet fw and doesn't shudder like that. I thought it whould be smoother with a dmfw.... I don't know what the issue is, but I would go back to the person that installed it for you and take a closer look.

[old guy]

If I understand you correctly you are stating that when you engage the clutch starting off in 1st gear the clutch is shuddering until it is fully engaged. After it’s fully engaged everything is OK. If this accurately describes your condition it could be one of two things. You could have a mechanical defect with one of the components or your problem could be as simple as uneven deposits on the flywheel or pressure plate surface.

Try this: Intentionally slip your clutch a little as you start off in 1st gear. Nothing excessive, just enough to keep it from shuddering. As soon as you are moving forward you can let the clutch fully engage. This should help you temporarily avoid the shuddering. If the cause is from uneven deposits the shuddering should eventually smooth out. If the shuddering is from a mechanical defect it will continue.

Edit: For what it’s worth, I have a SB OFE-SS (stage 4) clutch with ~ 50k miles on it. As I drive it normally the shuddering will increase to where it can rattle the dash starting out in 1st gear. About once a month I just give it a really hard launch or two and everything will smooth out for a while. I don’t recommend that you do that with a new clutch, but intentionally slipping it enough to stop the shudder should help. If it doesn't you will probably have to pull the transmission to determine what is wrong.

Good luck!

[M-Hood]

The FX300 should have some vibration but it should only be while engaged and around 1500 rpms. It shouldn't have any vibration while it is being engaged.


Could be a problem with the new dual mass flywheel, not rotating back as the clutch pressure is applied. You did install a unpsrung clutch disk right?

[reco]

Thanks guys for your reply!

old guy: I thought about the to launch it but the clutch has only done 50kms, it it going to cause any damage to it?
M-hood: Before I put the flywheel in, I tried to rock the flywheel for a bit and it seem like moving left and right. My clutch has no springs in the middle. When the shudder happens I can feel the flywheel is working hard which turns and hit the limit, the clutch plate lost the grip then the flywheel rotates back, then clutch pushes in again to turn the flywheel again, repeat like that.

The shudder only happen when I'm engaging the clutch, the engine is smooth at idle and after the cluch is fully engaged. The clutch only shudder at first and second gear when I'm slipping the clutch, other gears are fine.

I also tried this: When the car is idling, I put on hand brake and slowly slowly released the clutch to the point that the clutch just started to engage and starts to slip aginest the flywheel, the car then started to shake a bit, it's the similar kind of shaking than when engine loses a cylindar, if I release the hand brake and release the clutch futhure more the car will start moving but with bad shudderin. If I release the clutch quick enough and get clutch to fully engage, the car will take off fine. If I let the clutch to slip when engaging, the car will shudder very hard with some loud hitting noise coming out from the bottom of the car, I had the bonnet open and saw the engine jumping up and down.

If I engage the clutch at around 1500-1800rpm the shudder will get a lot better but still won't be as smooth as normal.

[old guy]

It sounds to me like the clutch plate isn’t being clamped evenly between the pressure plate and flywheel. Unfortunately, for that to happen something has to me mechanically incorrect. It could be any number of things, all of which would require removing and replacing the defective part.

I am going to assume that you purchased the clutch yourself and took it to a shop for installation so unfortunately that puts you in a precarious position. The installer is going to point the finger at the hardware and the clutch supplier may blame it on the installation.

I would have a conversation with both parties to make them aware of the situation and see what you can work out.

Good luck!

[M-Hood]

Could be just the clutch slipping slightly allowing the dual mass flywheel to unload slightly and then load as the clutch grabs again.

What ever you do DO NOT launch the car before you have the clutch broken in. It is kevlar which needs plenty of heat cycles. If you over heat it before it has cured then it will no longer hold and you will need a new disk.
FX300 can need up to 1500 miles for the break-in period if you are just doing normal driving. Less if you are doing plenty of stop/go driving in traffic. You can even break in the kevlar by doing very short bursts of WOT in 5th gear while driving slowly on the fwy. Just make sure to keep an eye on the rpms and not let them rev up really quick which means the clutch is slipping.

[lisek99]

Hey,

I just got my Clutch Masters 240mm FX200 w/Billet Steel Flywheel installed last month and I had/have exact same problem. On my way home from the shop I almost stall the car couple times because vibration was so bad I could not even feel where the engaging point was.

So, as of now I did 1500 miles on the clutch (60% city, 40% highway) and let me tell you it got a lot smoother, it’s still not perfect but it’s getting there. I think another 1500 miles should do the trick

I never launch or slip new clutch

[MikTip]

Ya gots to allow some time for the clutch to bed-in! Its takes time for a new clutch and new flywheel to work together smoothly!

[old guy]

Could be just the clutch slipping slightly allowing the dual mass flywheel to unload slightly and then load as the clutch grabs again.

What ever you do DO NOT launch the car before you have the clutch broken in. It is kevlar which needs plenty of heat cycles. If you over heat it before it has cured then it will no longer hold and you will need a new disk.
FX300 can need up to 1500 miles for the break-in period if you are just doing normal driving. Less if you are doing plenty of stop/go driving in traffic. You can even break in the kevlar by doing very short bursts of WOT in 5th gear while driving slowly on the fwy. Just make sure to keep an eye on the rpms and not let them rev up really quick which means the clutch is slipping.

Mike: Forgive my ignorance. I didn't realize the FX300 was a Kevlar lining and I agree that Reco should go through numerous heat cycles before banging on it. I edited my response above. However, the amount of shuddering described sounds excessive to me. I had the SB stage 2 (Kevlar) in my car (for a very short period) and it didn't exhibit that level of shuddering. Unfortunately it had other issues and I replaced it with the OFE-SS.

I still recommend that Reco have a discussion with both parties (supplier and installer) to at least go on record with the issues he is encountering. If it doesn't get better he will have a better chance at getting something done about it.

[Sline18T]

I have spoken to Reco earlier today and he reports it might be getting better.. I did say to him that the clutch and flywheel do need to wear in eg. heat cycles before the clutch will work efficently. I do feel it is excessive however I do remember quite some years ago that I had a simliar issue with an organic clutch plate in a different car, it certainly wasnt this bad, however after 2 weeks it started to settle down and bed in nicely.

[spindoctor]

Ive tested Reco's clutch myself 2 days ago and yes it shudders. Its less than a week old so best bet is to see how it goes after the mileage goes up.

[M-Hood]

Most likely just the combo of a new kevlar clutch and a brand new dual mass flywheel.

[Sline18T]

Thats what I thought too M-Hood :)

[lookaught]

Most likely just the combo of a new kevlar clutch and a brand new dual mass flywheel.

I had none of this when I put in an FX300 with a brand new LuK DMFW. It was butter smooth from day 1.

However, I do agree that it's better to put on some miles and see what happens before taking it apart. It may just go away....

[danzko]

I'm having similar issues.

I purchased an FX400 with the steel single mass flywheel, the 240mm setup, off a member here on Audizine.

Had it installed. First day, the clutch seemed to grab IMMEDIATELY, then the noise started. A chattering, and at times almost a grinding noise.

A detailed description:

Chattering in idle, louder as the car warms up, very loud with the AC on.

When in gear, grinding almost, horrible. People get into my car and wonder if that's what an Audi should sound like. I feel embarrassed. My mechanic told me to give it a couple of miles, similar to what I had read on the forums here: give it a couple thousand miles. Noise goes away when the clutch pedal is pressed.

I do have some of that stuttering in first gear as described above but nothing major. Just give it a bit more gas and that's it.

That was June last year. I told the mechanic at the time and he said that was the nature of the switch from the stock dual mass flywheel to the single mass flywheel, and to just turn the radio up. I kinda figured it would pass after a while based on what other users in the forum are saying. Fast forward to today: no improvements, if anything the clutch is noisier. Car gets hot, noise gets worse. AC on, noise worse. When in gear, going third or fourth or fifth, at about 3.5k to 4.5k rpm, sick grinding sounds. Clutch grabs decent. Nothing to write home about or too different from the stock clutch setup.

Sent an email to both the seller of the clutch and my mechanic. Both really cool people but I guess I'm in the situation described above by Old Guy, each party refers me to the other:

I am going to assume that you purchased the clutch yourself and took it to a shop for installation so unfortunately that puts you in a precarious position. The installer is going to point the finger at the hardware and the clutch supplier may blame it on the installation.

I would have a conversation with both parties to make them aware of the situation and see what you can work out.

Mechanic: Met with him, really cool guy, drove around. He said he speculated the noise was coming from the clutch release bearing/pressure plate. And to keep talking to the guy who sold me the clutch (I already sent the seller an email and clutchmasters as well). Mechanic literally said: Talk with clutchmasters...I don't think it says anything on their website that a chatter noise is normal... He also said that the installation went fine when asked about the stuff below (what the seller said).

Seller says: Has your mechanic taken a look and pulled the tranny? In very rare cases the fork may have bent or the TO bearing may have failed especially is it was not clipped into the fork, but even then sometimes it happens.

I'm so tired of the noise I cannot take it anymore.

I don't know what to do. CM has not replied. Can anyone offer any advice. I poured like $2000 or so fixing the car last year, the last thing I expected was to have to be dealing with this again. In fact, I was never really happy/satisfied with it (as it was making noises from day one) and I think I've waited long enough for the noise to go away (about an oil change worth of miles).

Thanks,

Dan

[M-Hood]

Dan, do you own a B6 5 speed or 6 speed?

[danzko]

fronttrak 5 spd 1.8t

[M-Hood]

The pressure plate might be rubbing against a web/bump on the bell housing. This issue has popped up on 2 B6 5 speeds, both of those were quattro.


Here is the spot that can hit on the B6 5 speed transmission.


If it looks like that it has to be cut down to look like this.



Have you called CM?

[dirtybrd]

I drove a brand new CM FX300 and it chattered like a bitch during release starting off. Not sure if it got better, havent talked to him.

[A4natomical]

My FX300 and DMFW were smooth from day 1 like Jon's^^, fwiw.

[pape]

The pressure plate might be rubbing against a web/bump on the bell housing. This issue has popped up on 2 B6 5 speeds, both of those were quattro.


Here is the spot that can hit on the B6 5 speed transmission.


If it looks like that it has to be cut down to look like this.



Have you called CM?

mike I also have a fx400 240mm steal flywheel on a B6 5speed quattro my chatter has goten a lot better especialy after the fluidampr but I get those tractor noises while in idle that get worst with the ac on. and the dam harmonic vivrations inside the cabin around 2000rpms under load, should I be worried last thing I whant to do now is drop the tranny just to check if the bell housing is been shaved by the flywheel.

[M-Hood]

The vibration at 2k with the 240mm 6 puck seems to normal since everyone with that setup gets that same vibration at that rpm, but if they are above that rpm it is not there.

[danzko]

The main issue is not vibration. It's the nasty grinding tractor noise coming out of the transmission.

[M-Hood]

But you get the noise all the time or only at 2k rpm? Because if it was rubbing on the housing it would pretty much make the noise all the time, even at idle.

[danzko]

Bingo. Making a clattering sound even at idle.

[M-Hood]

I would suggest getting that checked.

[reco]

Just a quick update. The new clutch has done 470KMs so far.

The shudder is slowly getting slightly better, the car is a lot easier to start from 1st gear compare to before. When the car is cold, the shuddering is still pretty bad, but after couple of kilometers driving and the clutch heats itself up, the car does feel better, at least I won't stall the engine at the traffic light anymore. The shudder is still there and shaking the whole car, but it's not as strong as before.

I'm still getting bad shuddering (both cold and warm) when I'm trying to move the car slowly and the clutch slips at low rpm (for example when trying to park the car, making an U-Turn etc), the car will still shudder the crap out and makes big shaking noise from the flywheel.

i'll give it another 1000kms before I start to think if anything was screwed up. If it still happens after another 1000kms, I will have to take off the gearbox and have a pretty look at what went wrong.

[pape]

Just a quick update. The new clutch has done 470KMs so far.

The shudder is slowly getting slightly better, the car is a lot easier to start from 1st gear compare to before. When the car is cold, the shuddering is still pretty bad, but after couple of kilometers driving and the clutch heats itself up, the car does feel better, at least I won't stall the engine at the traffic light anymore. The shudder is still there and shaking the whole car, but it's not as strong as before.

I'm still getting bad shuddering (both cold and warm) when I'm trying to move the car slowly and the clutch slips at low rpm (for example when trying to park the car, making an U-Turn etc), the car will still shudder the crap out and makes big shaking noise from the flywheel.

i'll give it another 1000kms before I start to think if anything was screwed up. If it still happens after another 1000kms, I will have to take off the gearbox and have a pretty look at what went wrong.

Man when my fx400 was new I wanted to take it off because of the chatter it had, but after 3000kms If finally started working better. Now I can take of in first and have almost no chatter at all. but the 2000rpm vivrations when in load are always there.

[M-Hood]

I can't understand why A4 owners drive their cars at 2k rpm. That is just forcing the engine to lug the car around. lol