HPFP upgrade...A.W.E or Autotech or??? Want feedback from actual users...

**baldy** · 12-19-2010 08:45 PM

So I'm thinking of doing the upgrade to stage 2+ (on Unitronic) since I already have stage 2 since may.

I've searched and researched till i'm blue in the face...

I've read through the war threads such as this one: http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthread.php?4219433

And the comparison threads: http://www.audizine.com/forum/showth...otech-compared!)

And seen the bashing from vendor to vendor: http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthread.php?4221606

So at the end of the day, it seems as though the KMD pumps fail constantly and require cam follower replacement every oil change. The Autotech, eventhough it's a similar design, seems to have less failures although they still fail apparently and the follower needs to be replaced every 10k basically. The AWE solution looks like what I'm leaning towards since I have a brand new pump (so I'm not too concerned with the seals being worn) and can't justify supporting APR's pricing.

That being said, for those of you that have made the stage 2 to 2+ upgrade, I was hoping you could answer a few questions...

1) What pump are you running... any issues? Cam follower wear increased or same?
2) How many miles have you been using it
3) Fuel consumption... did it get worse or better...
4) Power gains..realistically I know it's not like getting chipped again, but is it noticeable like stock cat vs tp
5) IF you are using Unitronic, what is your average highway fuel consumption mpg or L/100km
6) IF you are using Unitronic, what is your average mileage per tank

I can understand fuel consumption goes up with hp to a point, but wanted to know what you guys really get. If I set the cruise at 60mph, I get an average cosumption of about 26mpg vs the 33mpg on stock tune with my mods... And on city driving mixed with some highway, I average 400-450 km's per tank. Seems high to me after reading all your "I average 36mpg" posts. My Uni dealer called support and they tell me that it's not software related and there's something going on, but when I'm on stock tune my mileage is pretty much what you guys get.

**VZWalex** · 12-19-2010 11:54 PM

so I have a question ..... if both pumps mentioned are bound to fail ... thus costing you $$ and you know from your research that they require constant follower changes ... and you seem to feel that spending about $600 or so dollars for a APR rebuilt pump is not worth it ... why on earth would you even consider going stage 2+ ???

for what its worth maybe you should just stay Stage 2 and avoid the headache ...

I have gone stage 2+ with my B7 and now with my MK5... Ill share my experience with the HPFP upgrade .....

first of all .. I am APR tuned .... the pump has not affected fuel consumption from stage 2 unless I drive the car like I stole it. So you should have the same fuel consumption as you do know ...at least that was my experience .. and I gained fuel economy since I got chipped so there goes fuel consumption ....

the spring on the new pump from all manufactures does wear out the Cam Follower much faster than the stock one ... we all know that.

My APR HPFP has never failed on me ... I had it on my B7 since late 2007 and took it off November 2008 because my lease was up ... I sent it in to APR to have it inspected before I installed it on my MK5. The pumped Passed all test back at APR and was sent back to me... I had it installed march of 2009 on my MK5 GTI and has been in there since. I have been replaing the cam follower every 3 oil changes with very mixed driving including daily driving.... since Sept 2009 my GTI spends most of its time in the garage since I aquired another daily driver .... I recently changed the oil (this past Saturday) and follower (15k intervals) and this time around the follower still had most of its Black Oxide coating with just the center missing a little bit of the coating and could have easily lasted another 5k. Previous oil changes (15k intervals with daily driving and spirited driving) showed more wear on the follower to where there was no Black Oxide coating. My cam itself to this point is still looking great. ... I might add that the only Oil I have used was Motul Xcess 8100 5w-40 untill my last oil change I am trying out the switch to Lubro Molly 5w-40. I can only hope that Lubro is just as good as Motul .... on a side note ... when the Black Oxide wears out ... the Follwer wears down ridiculously fast ... as that was one of my first experiences I had when I put it on the B7 with only 12k on the car. I hope this helps you in some way ...

Also If I may add ..... the APR pump is more expensive than the rest ... when you look at a NEW pump $1k is alot of mullla ... a rebuilt is around $600 something .... thus why I went with the rebuilt pump .... when you look at cost vs replacing a faulty pump and other parts that can be damaged from a pump failure .... The cost of a $600 something APR rebuilt pump is WAY worth the peace of mind. I am sure if other pumps where built and assembled the same way ... there would be far less issues with them dont you think? So ask yourself ...... are you really saving money and getting a EQUAL OR BETTER product when you compare the different HPFP's? I have over 55k on my pump in 2 different vehicles with no issues .... I know now that I made a good descision ... or maybe I'm just lucky.
so to your questions ...
1) What pump are you running... any issues? Apr with no issues Cam follower wear increased or same? increased replacements to every 15k
2) How many miles have you been using it? A total of 55k Miles on the pump now with no failures
3) Fuel consumption... did it get worse or better... got better since original ECu mod and has not changed
4) Power gains..realistically I know it's not like getting chipped again, but is it noticeable like stock cat vs tp Honestly its not like a BAM noticeable power gain .. its more like a smoothness has been added to the power curve and the engine is no longer starving for fuel at top end so it pulls nicely to redline.
5) IF you are using Unitronic, what is your average highway fuel consumption mpg of L/100km sorry APR tuned here
6) IF you are using Unitronic, what is your average mileage per tank? I cant remember ... I never fill up the car past halfway now sicne I rarely drive it

**fusionx** · 12-20-2010 12:01 AM

Last I heard AWE stopped making their HPFP's??

You get what you pay for. Just be prepared to pay for your cam follower to be checked every oil change and be ready to have the dough to drop on a new one if needed.

**baldy** · 12-20-2010 12:50 AM

VZWalex, I appreciate your insight..

I just want to be able to get the pump done on the spot basically.. That's part of the reason the APR upgrade doesn't appeal to me.. I have a brand new latest revision pump, so buying a new one from APR doesn't make sense in my eyes.. And sending out to get upgraded means at least a week of no car since I'm in Canada.. I can try my local dealers, but I can garantee they don't have stock on rebuilt pumps.. They didn't even have the carbonio in stock, put it to you that way..

I run Motul as well, so my follower wear is probably the same as yours roughly.. Replacing the follower every 3 oil changes is not a big deal IMO..

Your fuel economy on stage 2+ vs stock is better? REALLY? If that's the case, Uni is going to get a call tomorrow, because mine is definately worse... Don't get me wrong, I haven't had any Uni issues and their support has been great, car drives great, etc.. but the consumption is not so great.. lol

**VZWalex** · 12-20-2010 03:21 AM

Baldy ... not only myself but just about every other B7 owner I know has experienced very noticeable gains in Miles Per Gallon (MPG). I have no experience with Unitronic so I really cant shed any light on your fuel consumption .... what I can tell you is that the only way I have seen fellow AZ'rs that I know personally have lower MPG after a ECU MOD was just because the itch to step on it more than usual have been had .... on regular driving with occasional spirited driving MPG has still been better than stock.

as far as the APR vs other manufactures HPFP ... there can always be a debate ... and many different reason why people choose a different brand ... I have heard of a few others having good luck with a different brand HPFP ... but so many failures .... I would suggest calling APR if you are interested in a rebuilt pump .. maybe they have a way of getting your local dealer a pump .... and remember .. just because your pump is new .. does not guarantee that it will not fail .... when I got my pump .. i took one that was already rebuilt ... I do not know how old it was .... and gave mine in as the core exchange .... so far I believe its the strict assembly with the APR pump that has given me a quality product to this date with no issues ... I know I sound like a APR sponsored guy but believe me .. I am in no way affiliated or compensated by APR for sharing my experiences with their products. Either way man I hope everything works out for you and I am sure you will love your pump once you get it put in and have the right software to take advantage of it. cheers!

**greensto** · 12-20-2010 06:28 AM

Throwing in a curve ball here. APR is no longer rebuilding customers' pumps. You need to purchase a new one for $850.

**crazytex21** · 12-20-2010 07:06 AM

yeah, also throwing in a curve ball. the MPG doesn't necessarily get better. your city miles will probably get worse and you may see an increase on your highway miles. if you do any kind of spirited driving, you mileage will most certainly not get better. just throwing that out there.

**VZWalex** · 12-20-2010 08:48 AM

@Greensto & Crazytex21 good input ... I've noticed that most people who live in areas where there is High humidity .. such as Florida and Georgia that MPG is not necessarily much better ... I wonder if thats because of the high humidity as where here in Cali we don't have that humidity issue .... would be interesting to find out if there is any real data to support this.

**crazytex21** · 12-20-2010 09:12 AM

VZWalex- is your MPG just overall better? that would be an interesting thing to find out about the humidity. i definitely see an increase in the MPG when i am running straight cruise control on a road trip or something of that nature. on my way back from APR (about 2 hours away from home) after i got the HPFP installed, i was pleasantly surprised with the MPG. but once i got into ATL, it was pretty much balanced out by the city driving. i romp on my gas a little bit more now than i did when i was stage 1. that could be a lot of the difference.

**VZWalex** · 12-20-2010 09:50 PM

Originally Posted by crazytex21

VZWalex- is your MPG just overall better? that would be an interesting thing to find out about the humidity. i definitely see an increase in the MPG when i am running straight cruise control on a road trip or something of that nature. on my way back from APR (about 2 hours away from home) after i got the HPFP installed, i was pleasantly surprised with the MPG. but once i got into ATL, it was pretty much balanced out by the city driving. i romp on my gas a little bit more now than i did when i was stage 1. that could be a lot of the difference.

well I used to romp around the gas more often when I got the HPFP barely installed but even then .. the MPG was not to bad considering .... Overall MPG is better but long highway MPG is much improved. I drive the GTI around town for errands and still get over 310 miles to the tank .... before it was even chipped I would not see that unless I had some good highway miles in there ... usually got around 280 - 295 miles to the tank ... now with a long trip I have gotten 360 miles to the tank and if I step on it a few times on some long straights up hwy99 I have gotten away with 320 - 340 out of the tank ... currently with my little city and highway drives to the local meets im getting about 310 to the tank... this is probably due more to the carbon build up . I just had it inspected by a mechanic friend and its looking pretty ugly in there ... not to mention my upper power band is dipping now and running to rich due to the lack of air flow .... its going to be fun cleaning those damn intake valves.

PS remember that my current gti has a way smaller tank than the A4 did

**mr shickadance** · 12-21-2010 08:37 AM

Originally Posted by baldy

So I'm thinking of doing the upgrade to stage 2+ (on Unitronic) since I already have stage 2 since may.

I've searched and researched till i'm blue in the face...

I've read through the war threads such as this one: http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthread.php?4219433

And the comparison threads: http://www.audizine.com/forum/showth...otech-compared!)

And seen the bashing from vendor to vendor: http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthread.php?4221606

So at the end of the day, it seems as though the KMD pumps fail constantly and require cam follower replacement every oil change. The Autotech, eventhough it's a similar design, seems to have less failures although they still fail apparently and the follower needs to be replaced every 10k basically. The AWE solution looks like what I'm leaning towards since I have a brand new pump (so I'm not too concerned with the seals being worn) and can't justify supporting APR's pricing.

That being said, for those of you that have made the stage 2 to 2+ upgrade, I was hoping you could answer a few questions...

1) What pump are you running... any issues? Cam follower wear increased or same?
2) How many miles have you been using it
3) Fuel consumption... did it get worse or better...
4) Power gains..realistically I know it's not like getting chipped again, but is it noticeable like stock cat vs tp
5) IF you are using Unitronic, what is your average highway fuel consumption mpg or L/100km
6) IF you are using Unitronic, what is your average mileage per tank

I can understand fuel consumption goes up with hp to a point, but wanted to know what you guys really get. If I set the cruise at 60mph, I get an average cosumption of about 26mpg vs the 33mpg on stock tune with my mods... And on city driving mixed with some highway, I average 400-450 km's per tank. Seems high to me after reading all your "I average 36mpg" posts. My Uni dealer called support and they tell me that it's not software related and there's something going on, but when I'm on stock tune my mileage is pretty much what you guys get.

this is only about your mpg, i am leaning towards siding with unitronics on this because i also am uni stage 2 chipped but my mpg is somewhere close to 28-32 depending on how much i push it....again if i drive the car very hard then yea im looking at much lower mpg but easy kind driving has gotten me averaging about 30 mpg while i dont have the exact mods you have, im pretty close, if anything you should have higher mpg because your car can breath easier then mine (you have an intake, i just have a k&n)

**$lick** · 02-19-2011 03:43 PM

bump for any more info about the autotech hpfp from users.... any reliability/ failing issues? everything going ok? how many miles? etc...

looking to get one of these soon, any info is appreciated

**B72.0T** · 02-19-2011 03:54 PM

The Autotech is just a rebuild kit not an actual HPFP replacement like the APR one.

**psiaddict85** · 02-19-2011 04:02 PM

I was about to pull the trigger on the AWE kit but they discontinued it out of nowhere!

**deeznuts** · 02-19-2011 04:22 PM

Originally Posted by VZWalex

@Greensto & Crazytex21 good input ... I've noticed that most people who live in areas where there is High humidity .. such as Florida and Georgia that MPG is not necessarily much better ... I wonder if thats because of the high humidity as where here in Cali we don't have that humidity issue .... would be interesting to find out if there is any real data to support this.

Spirited drives will def decrease gas mileage bc theres more fuel being used....as for the humidity...turbo cars love humidiy just not heat...the weather wont really directly impact the fp

**event** · 02-19-2011 04:55 PM

Originally Posted by psiaddict85

I was about to pull the trigger on the AWE kit but they discontinued it out of nowhere!

PM I got:

As of December 21st, 2010, we discontinued production on our High Pressure Fuel Pump. With the (premature) discontinuation of the FSI engine within both the Audi and Volkswagen lines, batch development, including componentry from AWE Tuning's aerospace suppliers, has become impractical given the declining demand for the product (less engines = less need for our High Pressure Fuel Pump). I sincerely hope this hasn’t caused any inconvenience for you.

Again, my apologies for any inconvenience, and please let me know if you have any questions.

Alex

Seems like bullshit to me, but oh well... it's not like they have to make something just because we want them to.

**Coderedpl** · 03-09-2011 08:26 PM

Originally Posted by B72.0T

The Autotech is just a rebuild kit not an actual HPFP replacement like the APR one.

But is it good?

**FLYINGLEGGS** · 03-09-2011 10:41 PM

Originally Posted by baldy

can't justify supporting APR's pricing.

You get what you pay for... that's why you drive an Audi and not a Kia.

For the sake of contributing: I've had an APR hpfp for 30k and had no problems.

**event** · 03-09-2011 10:53 PM

Originally Posted by Coderedpl

But is it good?

I just installed it, works great and somehow I'm boosting an additional 3+psi too, would give a more in depth impression but I haven't really been able to get on it since the reflash (APR).

Google Autotech HPFP failures and really read through the crap; you will find that it's mostly just the typical misinformation people like to spread on these types of forums.

**b7kevin** · 03-10-2011 06:18 AM

Originally Posted by event

I just installed it, works great and somehow I'm boosting an additional 3+psi too, would give a more in depth impression but I haven't really been able to get on it since the reflash (APR).

Google Autotech HPFP failures and really read through the crap; you will find that it's mostly just the typical misinformation people like to spread on these types of forums.

x2, most pump failures/ follower chewing is more or less identical to others designs.

Also what about the ANTI-APR HPFP thread showing that APR maxes out the pump and would theoretically attribute to the FASTEST wear. I say chose the cheapest and enjoy :)

**Coderedpl** · 03-10-2011 07:50 AM

Originally Posted by event

I just installed it, works great and somehow I'm boosting an additional 3+psi too, would give a more in depth impression but I haven't really been able to get on it since the reflash (APR).

Google Autotech HPFP failures and really read through the crap; you will find that it's mostly just the typical misinformation people like to spread on these types of forums.

Sounds convincing. Report back after some use. I would be curious in doing it.

**B72.0T** · 03-10-2011 09:12 AM

I am also interested in the autotech one. The only problem is I'm worried about swapping out the internals.. is it hard?

**event** · 03-10-2011 09:21 AM

It wasn't hard, increase the difficulty of replacing a follower a little and you get the idea. Just be sure to have the right tools and read the instruction prior to doing the work and you should be good to go.

**jimrobbington** · 03-10-2011 09:30 AM

I would prefer to build up my own hpfp, but mine is at 107k miles (unless it was replaced by previous owner), and I worry about the reliability, so, it's either buy a new hpfp and build it, or buy a new one from APR, but there probably won't be much of a difference in cost there.

**event** · 03-10-2011 09:39 AM

What revision do you have? If it's a newer pump revision you should be good. You also need to make sure you have a rev B cam as well, the A one is soft and more prone to defect.

Take this lightly since it's from a forum I was sifting through, but I read APR doesn't necessarily always send you a brand new pump. I've found a post recently (don't have link, will look) where dude ordered a non-rebuild pump and it was dirtier (more used looking) than his stock one. To the poster it was clearly a rebuild and not a new pump with APR internals.

Ultimately it is your decision and I will hold my recommendations till I've put my pump through it's paces.

**Coderedpl** · 03-10-2011 12:09 PM

Originally Posted by event

What revision do you have? If it's a newer pump revision you should be good. You also need to make sure you have a rev B cam as well, the A one is soft and more prone to defect.

Take this lightly since it's from a forum I was sifting through, but I read APR doesn't necessarily always send you a brand new pump. I've found a post recently (don't have link, will look) where dude ordered a non-rebuild pump and it was dirtier (more used looking) than his stock one. To the poster it was clearly a rebuild and not a new pump with APR internals.

Ultimately it is your decision and I will hold my recommendations till I've put my pump through it's paces.

Got part #'s for the pump so we can check? How would you go about checking the cam?

**baldy** · 03-10-2011 12:27 PM

I ended up getting the Autotech. So far 2000 km's and no problems.

http://www.audizine.com/forum/showth......?highlight=

**Coderedpl** · 03-10-2011 12:59 PM

Originally Posted by baldy

I ended up getting the Autotech. So far 2000 km's and no problems.

http://www.audizine.com/forum/showth......?highlight=

Hmm sending you a pm

**XCELR8** · 03-10-2011 12:59 PM

Link to buy that pump kit?

**baldy** · 03-10-2011 01:05 PM

CTS Turbo

http://www.ctsturbo.com/products/FSI...it-447-24.html

**jimrobbington** · 03-10-2011 01:12 PM

Originally Posted by event

What revision do you have? If it's a newer pump revision you should be good. You also need to make sure you have a rev B cam as well, the A one is soft and more prone to defect.

How do I check? My car is an 05.5, so unless it was all replaced, I should probably have the revision A, I assume. Good way to tell if it was taken in under warranty before I owned it, I guess. Can you tell without removing it? If so, I'll go look. I would also assume that the cam must match the pump, so if I have a B pump, then the cam would also be B?

**b7kevin** · 03-10-2011 01:22 PM

Originally Posted by jimrobbington

How do I check? My car is an 05.5, so unless it was all replaced, I should probably have the revision A, I assume. Good way to tell if it was taken in under warranty before I owned it, I guess. Can you tell without removing it? If so, I'll go look. I would also assume that the cam must match the pump, so if I have a B pump, then the cam would also be B?

You can figure this out by going to an audi dealer and asking them to pull the service records from your vin. Otherwise it's anyones guess. I mean you can get away running an A cam, just dont wait to check that follower.

**agkellyboy** · 03-10-2011 01:23 PM

Originally Posted by b7kevin

x2, most pump failures/ follower chewing is more or less identical to others designs.

Also what about the ANTI-APR HPFP thread showing that APR maxes out the pump and would theoretically attribute to the FASTEST wear. I say chose the cheapest and enjoy :)

And your internal seals will fail on the pump and you will start dumping fuel into your valve head and you'll have to buy the APR one anyways. But whatever man, at least you saved some money (the first time around).

**event** · 03-10-2011 01:30 PM

Originally Posted by jimrobbington

How do I check?
I would also assume that the cam must match the pump, so if I have a B pump, then the cam would also be B?

Call a dealer and ask them to look up your VIN with ETKA or whatever, they can tell you from there. Easiest way imo. Pump and cam will have different revisions, my pump was at F (I believe) and cam was luckily a B.

Originally Posted by agkellyboy

And your internal seals will fail on the pump and you will start dumping fuel into your valve head and you'll have to buy the APR one anyways. But whatever man, at least you saved some money (the first time around).

Lol, you can buy the TWO "seals" from any dealer for cheap. There are tons of people (mostly VW guys) running strong on these for many years.

**B72.0T** · 03-10-2011 01:30 PM

Originally Posted by XCELR8

Link to buy that pump kit?

Cheaper here with free shipping!
http://www.mjmautohaus.com/catalog/p...oducts_id=2390

**b7kevin** · 03-10-2011 01:33 PM

MJM is the cheapest for alot of things like the OEM DV valve is the cheapest on the net with FREE PRIORITY shipping

**B72.0T** · 03-10-2011 01:36 PM

Whenever I buy one it's going to be the autotech pump. Sick of fuel cuts and a type-s with a catback exhaust beating me on the highway

**jimrobbington** · 03-10-2011 01:38 PM

Ok, I checked and my hpfp part number ends with a B. Which means, I think, that it is still one of the original parts before any revisions were done, apparently the new pumps end with a j or k. Which must mean that I also have the old revision cam. Weird thing is, I have never had a problem with wear on my follower, and never had a fuel cut.