Driveshaft Bearing

[chirp]

You can see my other thread below for all my vibrations sysmptoms, but I have a quick question.

How much play, if any, should there be in the driveshaft center carrier bearing?

Mine moves freely about 2 inches in all directions. I am pretty sure that is not right.

If it's bad, the good news is that I found my sever vibration that I have been chasing for sometime.

The bad news is, well, you know...

[csosnowski]

afaik there shouldnt be very much play at all, even though its a bearing with what looks like a rubber bushing.

when I did my piggies i gave my driveshaft a wiggle and theres definately some play there. I do notice a strobe-like sound when cruising 55-60 but it fades before and after that.

never had violent shaking or vibration, more annoying than anything.

the sound is exactly the same as the sound this old flat-bed truck I drove made when it had a bad carrier bearing. Changed the bearing and smooth as butter.

Im interested to hear how you fare as I am going to have to do mine here eventually.

034 sells the assembly as well as VAST so it shouldnt be too hard to source the part, $85-$100 bucks iirc.

GL and I hope you figure it out soon!

[chirp]

afaik there shouldnt be very much play at all, even though its a bearing with what looks like a rubber bushing.

when I did my piggies i gave my driveshaft a wiggle and theres definately some play there. I do notice a strobe-like sound when cruising 55-60 but it fades before and after that.

never had violent shaking or vibration, more annoying than anything.

the sound is exactly the same as the sound this old flat-bed truck I drove made when it had a bad carrier bearing. Changed the bearing and smooth as butter.

Im interested to hear how you fare as I am going to have to do mine here eventually.

034 sells the assembly as well as VAST so it shouldnt be too hard to source the part, $85-$100 bucks iirc.

GL and I hope you figure it out soon!

Well, I think if I end up changing it, which looks like I will have to, I am going to look into a 1 piece driveshaft.

[csosnowski]

not a bad choice, if I had the dough I would probably go the same route.

but I dont so I will be hammering the ol' 2-piecer apart and RR'ing a 034 bearing to go with all the other 034 mounts. they need friends, you know :)

[JLH_S4]

I'm interested to see how this plays out for you. I've been getting a baaaaad mystery vibration but haven't had the time to really get at it and figure it out. I checked all the suspension and the front half axles and everything seems right there. I was just looking at drive shafts from ECS and they're ~$1300 - no clue what a solid piece one would be. Good luck with everything!

[csosnowski]

Scotty@Advanced has good prices on SPDS:

http://www.advancedautomotion.com/pr...products_id=43

$459+ whatever options you choose. not too shabby to increase reliability.

I just dont have the cash for that lol, ima poor college boy.

[csosnowski]

heres the links for the VAST and 034 driveshaft carrier bearing pages:

http://vastperformance.com/shop/prod...roducts_id=130

http://www.034motorsport.com/chassis...s-p-13696.html

[JLH_S4]

Thank you sir! Now to find a DIY...

[jms-4]

I posted a diy a long time back.

Search and you will find.

[JLH_S4]

And thank you as well, sir!

Just in case someone is too lazy to find it:
http://www.audizine.com/forum/showth...n-a?highlight=

Great write up man, I appreciate it!

[JLH_S4]

Hm... actually getting the car off the ground and taking a look underneath - when I spin the front tire back and forth the driveshaft has a fairly loud metal on metal "clunk" coming from where it bolts to the transmission. Is this normal? I took a short video if that will help

[jms-4]

Hm... actually getting the car off the ground and taking a look underneath - when I spin the front tire back and forth the driveshaft has a fairly loud metal on metal "clunk" coming from where it bolts to the transmission. Is this normal? I took a short video if that will help

Is the car in gear?

I believe the wheel should spin freely if it's in neutral.

The noise sounds like it's in the transmission and not the cv joint, right?

Secondly, are you talking about the driveshaft or the axle?

[JLH_S4]

Is the car in gear?

I believe the wheel should spin freely if it's in neutral.

The noise sounds like it's in the transmission and not the cv joint, right?

Secondly, are you talking about the driveshaft or the axle?

My bad, I guess that was a little vague.

Car is in 1'st gear so the driver's side front wheel has a bit of movement each way, but not much. When the wheel is turned the driveshaft, where it exits/bolts to the transmission, is making the clunking noise. Yes the noise is definitely at the point where the tranny and driveshaft meet. I haven't dropped the exhaust and heat shielding to get a clear look at the whole driveshaft yet, that's just the first thing that caught my attention.

[Mott Power]

Keep the thread updated when you replace it. I think mine's on it's way out, too. Everytime I let off the throttle at lower speeds I get a very odd rattle from around the driveshaft area. I imagine I have the same problem. Mine also has about 1-1.5 inches in play.

[JLH_S4]

Ya I haven't noticed any play in mine at all. I may be barking up the wrong tree entirely with the driveshaft but I'm still checking it out. Something is SERIOUSLY wrong under my car and I can't seem to find anything out of the ordinary down there. It's killing me - it's nice and cool outside I wanna be out driving!

[DESPOT D S4]

Would a bad bearing/bushings cause a loud bang when hard shifting at what seems to be under the armrest?

[JLH_S4]

Would a bad bearing/bushings cause a loud bang when hard shifting at what seems to be under the armrest?

That could be engine or transmission mounts or rear diff mounts. There are a lot of points for slop in the factory S drive train. It only occurs under hard shifting?

[DESPOT D S4]

That could be engine or transmission mounts or rear diff mounts. There are a lot of points for slop in the factory S drive train. It only occurs under hard shifting?

Engine mounts are new 034 and I have a dts. I will check the trans and rear tomorrow.
And yes only on hard shifts so far only happens 3 times in the last few months.

[csosnowski]

Engine mounts are new 034 and I have a dts. I will check the trans and rear tomorrow.
And yes only on hard shifts so far only happens 3 times in the last few months.

if you have the opportunity, crawl under your car and give the driveshaft a wiggle. id be willing to bed that theres some excessive wear on your carrier.

if everything else is locked down then it would stand to reason that at the point that there is the most wear there will be the most movement.

I dont have a dts, but I know that when i wind up 1st or 2nd gear there is definately a "pop." probly not the propeller hitting the bottom of the car, but the torque is causing the tail end of the tranny to lift, the driveshaft to deflect upwards and its making something out of whack.

sidenote: anyone have a better pic of something to use to wedge the shafts apart? im having some difficulty trying to figure out something to use since i havent pulled the shaft to look at how its all set up.

[jms-4]

http://www.blauparts.com/audi/audi_d...pair_kit.shtml

Wondering If You Have A Worn Audi Driveshaft Or Audi Center Support Bearing?

Symptom: A high pitch whining coming from the center underside of the car. The high pitch noise varies with vehicle speed. Lower pitched at slow speeds and higher pitched at fast speeds. It may even begin to make a screeching noise; especially when driven in cold conditions.
Repair Solution: To determine the cause of the noise put the vehicle up on a repair shop post lift with all four wheels off the ground. Driving the vehicle on lift and using a stethoscope, confirm that the noise is coming from the Audi center support bearing area (see image below). If it is, replace the Audi center support bearing.

Symptom: Quattro driveshaft vibration is felt from the center underside of the car, especially when straight line accelerating. Much of the shudder is felt through the shift lever upon acceleration. The shudder worsens when taking off from a stop sign and smoothes out somewhat when the car gains speed and/or when you let off the gas pedal.
Repair Solution: 1) Make sure the vehicle is turned off and in park. Inspect the Audi center support bearing. Has the rubber that surrounds the middle of the bearing separated from the bearing bracket? If the rubber has separated from the bracket, replacement of the center support bearing in needed. 2) At the driveshaft yoke In the middle of the driveshaft you'll see the universal joint. Grab the front half and the rear half of the driveshaft with your hands. Twisting from side to side, see if there is any play in the Audi universal joint. If there is, replacement of the Audi universal joint is necessary.

Symptom: Quattro driveshaft vibration is felt from the center underside of the car, especially when turning a corner from a stop sign. This shudder can also be felt through the shift lever when first taking off from the stop sign.
Repair Solution: Make sure the vehicle is turned off and in park. Inspect the front driveshaft CV joint (located on the end of the driveshaft where it connects to the tailshaft of the transmission - see picture below). Grab the driveshaft with one hand and the outer cage of the front CV joint in the other, twisting from side to side to see if there is any play. If you detect any play in the CV joint, replacement is necessary. Due to the close proximity of the front driveshaft CV joint to the catalytic converters, the grease in the CV joint cage hardens and looses its ability to lubricate. This lack of lubrication accelerates wear on the driveshaft CV joint. When lubrication is lacking, the joint will begin to bind during acceleration when engine torque flex occurs. This driveshaft torque flex is magnified when turning your Audi left or right.

Symptom: Quattro driveshaft clanks near the hand e-brake area. This occurs on acceleration or deceleration.
Repair Solution: Make sure the vehicle is turned off and in park. Inspect the Audi center support bearing. Has the rubber that surrounds the middle of the bearing separated from the bearing bracket? If the rubber has separated from the bracket, replacement of the center support bearing in needed.





Symptom: Quattro driveshaft has loose rattling noise coming from the underside of the car. This noise sounds like loose pocket change that would be jiggling around in your pockets. You'll hear this noise as you transverse the gears, upshifting between 1st and 3rd gear. This noise also occurs at deceleration when you let off the gas pedal and slow down.
Repair Solution: Make sure the vehicle is turned off and in park. Inspect the front driveshaft CV joint (located on the end of the driveshaft where it connects to the tailshaft of the transmission - see picture below). Grab the driveshaft with one hand and the outer cage of the front CV joint in the other, twisting from side to side to see if there is any play. If you detect any play in the CV joint, replacement is necessary. Due to the close proximity of the front driveshaft CV joint to the catalytic converters, the grease in the CV joint cage hardens and looses its ability to lubricate. This lack of lubrication accelerates wear on the driveshaft CV joint. When lubrication is lacking, the joint will begin to bind during acceleration when engine torque flex occurs. This driveshaft torque flex is magnified when turning your Audi left or right.

[JLH_S4]

Awesome post! Thank you.

Unfortunately (and possibly fortunately as well.. we'll see) none of those are really anything like what's going on for me.

After driving 30+ miles my car develops an intense vibration. The vibration is felt in the shifter to start with but soon is shaking the whole car. After the vibration persists for a bit I start getting a loud "clunk", that I can feel as well as hear, from what seems to be under the driver's side floor. The vibration and "clunk" are both vehicle speed related, not engine/tranny speed, as the noise and vibrations persist even when in neutral. This obviously leads me to believe that the problem lies with something that is spinning as the wheels do regardless of gear. I have checked the 1/2 axles, all the suspension components, and everything else within sight under there and nothing seems broken, damage, or loose. I'm at an absolute loss.

I believe I finally almost broke whatever it is that's causing this problem because now the vibrations and "clunk" occur when pulling out of the driveway and beginning driving. I really need another set of jackstands. That way I could get the car completely in the air and have someone get it up to 10-15mph and see what is happening.

[chirp]

Awesome post! Thank you.

Unfortunately (and possibly fortunately as well.. we'll see) none of those are really anything like what's going on for me.

After driving 30+ miles my car develops an intense vibration. The vibration is felt in the shifter to start with but soon is shaking the whole car. After the vibration persists for a bit I start getting a loud "clunk", that I can feel as well as hear, from what seems to be under the driver's side floor. The vibration and "clunk" are both vehicle speed related, not engine/tranny speed, as the noise and vibrations persist even when in neutral. This obviously leads me to believe that the problem lies with something that is spinning as the wheels do regardless of gear. I have checked the 1/2 axles, all the suspension components, and everything else within sight under there and nothing seems broken, damage, or loose. I'm at an absolute loss.

I believe I finally almost broke whatever it is that's causing this problem because now the vibrations and "clunk" occur when pulling out of the driveway and beginning driving. I really need another set of jackstands. That way I could get the car completely in the air and have someone get it up to 10-15mph and see what is happening.

Sounds like we have the same issue. At this point, i am really leaning towards the driveshaft carrier bearing. Although mine is still there, the rubber does not have much rigidity to it. I can very easliy move the drive shaft around the inside of the carrier bearing rubber. I believe the clunk is the driveshaft hitting the metal ring of the carrier bearing.

I believe this could also be caused by a bad CV joint at either end and the combination of the worn rubber in the carrier bearing.

I am going to take the plunge and by a rebuilt driveshaft. I hope that will solve my issue and I don't spend all that money and still have a vibration.

I am going to change my motor mounts in the near future as well. Even though I don't see anything leaking out of them, it seems to me that my motor vibrates just a little too much sitting at idle.

I'll keep you up to date in hopes of helping anyone else with this issue.

I should have eveything installed no later that the first of the year. (What a way to spend Christmas break, lol)

[JLH_S4]

Sounds like we have the same issue. At this point, i am really leaning towards the driveshaft carrier bearing. Although mine is still there, the rubber does not have much rigidity to it. I can very easliy move the drive shaft around the inside of the carrier bearing rubber. I believe the clunk is the driveshaft hitting the metal ring of the carrier bearing.

I believe this could also be caused by a bad CV joint at either end and the combination of the worn rubber in the carrier bearing.

I am going to take the plunge and by a rebuilt driveshaft. I hope that will solve my issue and I don't spend all that money and still have a vibration.

I am going to change my motor mounts in the near future as well. Even though I don't see anything leaking out of them, it seems to me that my motor vibrates just a little too much sitting at idle.

I'll keep you up to date in hopes of helping anyone else with this issue.

I should have eveything installed no later that the first of the year. (What a way to spend Christmas break, lol)

I just got my car off the jackstands and went for a little drive. Once again, it took a few miles fro the problem to kick in but this time I was really really searching. I'm pretty sure my problem is NOT coming from the driveshaft. What it sounds the most like is a bad CV on the front left. The only problem with THAT is that the whole 1/2 axle was replaced ~5k miles ago! If that's the problem I'll be thankful and happy because it's an easy fix, but then I'll be insanely pissed because something is very wrong there to wear out in that short of time.

And yes, please keep us updated. I'll be doing the same.

[JLH_S4]

Quick video while driving. This noise is coming from driver's front, and every time it "clunks" I can feel it in my feet. Normally this is accompanied by an intense vibration, however today it did not get to that point. This was just a few feet from my house on some little back roads so I'd be close if anything happened.

http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v2...rent=CLUNK.mp4

And yes I have a brake light out... I just can't find the freaking bulbs I bought...

[chirp]

Order a remanufactured driveshaft today. Hopefully have it on next week.

Will keep you guys posted for all the others that have a similar vibration.

Keep your fingers crossed for me!

[jms-4]

under your feet? Not a driveshaft in my opinion.

Possibly lower control arms or some sort of frame/sub frame bolt that might be loose. Heck, at this point, maybe even motor mounts, but those are not near your feet.

Does the situation worsen when turning (if so, probably out cv or wheel bearing).

I'm betting cv joint since the problem seems unrelated to engine speed.

[S4_NE]

I had a front axel go bad and the entire car would vibrate at low or high speed, OP gl either way

[JLH_S4]

Order a remanufactured driveshaft today. Hopefully have it on next week.

Will keep you guys posted for all the others that have a similar vibration.

Keep your fingers crossed for me!

Sorry I jacked your thread chirp! I just figured since we're all having similar MYSTERY vibrations it might help to keep all the data piled into one thread. Good luck with your install, man, I hope it fixes it for you.

[chirp]

under your feet? Not a driveshaft in my opinion.

Possibly lower control arms or some sort of frame/sub frame bolt that might be loose. Heck, at this point, maybe even motor mounts, but those are not near your feet.

Does the situation worsen when turning (if so, probably out cv or wheel bearing).

I'm betting cv joint since the problem seems unrelated to engine speed.

I feel mine under my feet as well. I also hear/ feel the driveshaft hitting the right under my arm rest. The rubber in the carrier bearing is so wore out that it is allowing the driveshaft to smack the metal ring that holds the carrier bearing.

We'll see for sure. Driveshaft will be here Fri. I hope I have time this weekend. If not it will be in the first of next week.

[Dimcorner]

Did you get this fixed?

[chirp]

Did you get this fixed?

Mine is up on jackstands right now with a new driveshaft. I gotta hang the exhaust here in a few minutes and take a test drive. I am pretty sure my center bearing on the driveshaft was the root of my 65+ mph vibration. However, I think i also have an engine vibration, which may have caused the center bearing to wear out.

With the car on jackstands, in gear, at idle, I have a slight thumping sorta vibration. Could be a cylinder missfiring or maybe the motor mounts.

Plans are...
Test drive to see if I got rid of the highway speed severe vibration
Engine mounts and spark plugs next week.

I think I may have had 2 vibrations. The highway vibrations would happen even if I took the car out of gear and let it roll down the highway, so I don't think that sever vibration is the same that I am now feeling at idle.

More to come...

[JLH_S4]

Good update, chirp, and good luck with your ongoing work.

[Scotty@Advanced]

We had a couple cars come in with the replacement center rubber bearings broken after about 2 years. The replacements don't appear to last as long as the factory pieces. Hence our motivation to offer single piece units.

Technically after dissassembly your also supposed to have the driveshaft rebalanced.

[Dimcorner]

Scott, sent you an email and I'm probably going to order the drive shaft (my center support can be deflected about 1" by pushing the drive shaft). Are they on hand?

[chirp]

Well, back to the drawing board. Although the new driveshaft did take some slop out of my drivetrain, it did nothing for my vibration.

[Johann2.7t]

oh man sorry to hear that, im having similar problems and dreading finding out its either the diff or tranny :(

[Scotty@Advanced]

Scott, sent you an email and I'm probably going to order the drive shaft (my center support can be deflected about 1" by pushing the drive shaft). Are they on hand?

I'm out of the steel shaft but have an aluminum unit in stock.

[Dimcorner]

did you replace the cv ends as well?

[*Blue-Angel*]

I'm out of the steel shaft but have an aluminum unit in stock.

Remember I do have a set of ends you can use if he opts for steel, Can be put together very quickly. Also have cvs here to repack. Just need the end caps.

[Dr. Jekyll]

We had a couple cars come in with the replacement center rubber bearings broken after about 2 years. The replacements don't appear to last as long as the factory pieces. Hence our motivation to offer single piece units.

Technically after dissassembly your also supposed to have the driveshaft rebalanced.

Is there any added vibration with the single piece units? IIRC some people tried single piece units in the past and had vibration issues.