Flooding + Electrical Problems After BIG Rain

[ilko]

There was a huge rain storm yesterday for the better part of the day. My car is parked in an outside parking lot and when I went by to pick up something today, it looked odd. First thing I noticed was that the windshield was fogged up.

As I approached I tried to unlock it with the remote and that didn't work. I used the key, got in, tried to start it and... Surprise! It didn't start. The warning lights lit up with the battery flashing. On the second attempt I didn't even get that. All dark. So I asked the attendant for a jump start. The car turned on fine. I took it for a short drive to charge the battery and after a few minutes I parked with the engine idling.

I tried fiddling with a few things inside the cabin and discovered that when I press the interior lights and the window switches nothing happens. I also discovered that the driver side floor was flooded. Passenger side was wet on the outside corner only.

Now, I've had this happen to my allroad a few years back and it cost $14,000 to fix. I'm not kidding. Thankfully the insurance company picked up the tab on that one. The C5 A6 platform has a bunch of computers in the passenger side foot well and they all got flooded.

I know the B6 A4 is different, I did search about the drain holes in the engine compartment and will remove the battery and inspect/clean those up. Right now I have 3 questions:

1) What's the best way to remove the water inside the car? Shop vac? Hair dryer??
2) Are the windows and interior lights wired on the same relay, or what should I be looking at to trouble shoot this? I know that the relays are located under the instrument cluster and I will look at them but is there a diagram that shows which relays I should test?
3) My remote isn't working either. I think that it may have to be reprogrammed again. I initially thought the alarm was not working but it seems to arm fine if I use the key to lock the car and tomorrow I'll check if the other fob works. Is there something I may be overlooking here?

What a PITA!

[nycion]

Did you check the inside of the ECU compartment/box. There are three or four relays, under the ECU. If there is water, there is very likely that your radiator fans were running while the car was sitting and the battery drained. That would explain why the central locking didn't work and the car dind't start. That is the first thing I would check. To do that, you need to remove the driver's side wiper and then remove the scews from the ECU cover (about 5 of them)...

[ilko]

Yes. It started and drove fine with no warning lights. The battery also seemed to have charged enough after an hour of light driving and mostly idling. After I parked it I killed the engine and started it back up with no issues. The interior lights and windows still didn't work though.

[spunkz]

sue audi i went to the dealer for the same thing they said they cant do anything

[alpinestar180]

spend like 4 hours with a shop vac. get every oz of water out. then park it in a garage with a dehumidifier in the trunk and open all the windows and put the seats down. you can even point fans at the wet carpet. my car flooded with like 2 inches of water in the whole bottom of it, and you could never tell because i got it all out. everything works fine.

[ilko]

Did you check the inside of the ECU compartment/box. There are three or four relays, under the ECU. If there is water, there is very likely that your radiator fans were running while the car was sitting and the battery drained. That would explain why the central locking didn't work and the car dind't start. That is the first thing I would check. To do that, you need to remove the driver's side wiper and then remove the scews from the ECU cover (about 5 of them)...

Thanks, I haven't checked the ECU as it was dark outside tonight and I didn't have my tools with me but I'll look into it. I've taken the wiper off before when the wipers got sluggish, so I know the drill. Are those relays shorted by water which causes them to run the fans?

spend like 4 hours with a shop vac. get every oz of water out. then park it in a garage with a dehumidifier in the trunk and open all the windows and put the seats down. you can even point fans at the wet carpet. my car flooded with like 2 inches of water in the whole bottom of it, and you could never tell because i got it all out. everything works fine.

Thanks, I'll have to do that too. My other car got flooded once and I was able to use towels and a couple of hair dryers to dry it out but this car has definitely more water in it right now. And more floor space!

[nycion]

Yes - one of the relays controls the radiator auxiliary fans. If water gets in the relay, it will start the fans and drain the battery. It only takes few hours to kill it. You really need to pull the ECU out of the way and look in the bottom of the enclosure. It only takes 1/2" of water to get to the first relay...

As far as getting the water out, I think fans oriented towards carpet are better. The dehumidifier is too slow.

Also...the water can get in through the cabin filter (charcoal filter?) compartment as well. Check if the cover is placed properly. Take it a step further and remove the filter and see if there are traces of water underneath.

[ilko]

Thank you. Any idea what may be causing the windows and dome lights to not function?

[nycion]

Not sure...convenience module maybe. Found this on B5: http://www.audizine.com/forum/showth...module-located . Try to find for B6 yourself and see if you have any luck.

Also...fuses (if there are any for windows). Check the fuse diagram on the driver's side compartment.

[chris.mcneal]

Phunkfx should chime in shortly. He is dealing with window/interior lights problems himself.

[PhunkFX]

I am currently at a stand still with this. I also have no auto dome lights (I can turn them on manually), I have no windows, no sunroof, auto trunk unlock, no auto mirrors.

My thread can be referenced here http://www.audizine.com/forum/showth...n-the-ignition

[ilko]

Thanks Ricky for chiming in.

Right now based on what I've read I think the ECU box is/was flooded (is the fan relay fried and will the fans not work now?) and water got to the central convenience module. Where is that module, do you know?

The limited time I had with the car I knew that only the window switches in the driver door weren't working, I didn't test the other doors. Also, the mirrors and locks in the door worked, so not all the electric components in the door are bad at this point.

[Synthetik]

Thanks Ricky for chiming in.

Right now based on what I've read I think the ECU box is/was flooded (is the fan relay fried and will the fans not work now?) and water got to the central convenience module. Where is that module, do you know?

The limited time I had with the car I knew that only the window switches in the driver door weren't working, I didn't test the other doors. Also, the mirrors and locks in the door worked, so not all the electric components in the door are bad at this point.

The relay for the radiator fan is #219, just bought mine from ECS.
My dome lights also don't work after a car accident and I haven't located the issue yet.

Also, http://www.audizine.com/forum/showth...iy+water+drain

[PhunkFX]

The CCM (comfort convenience module) is under the drivers carpet. You have to pull some of the trim and panels and door sill moldings out. This way you can push the carpet up and get the CCM out. Its in a well in the floor in front of the driver seat. Its a pain in the butt. I think my mirrors do work also.

My fan relay (relay 219) was rusted and corroded. My fans just came on and went off at varied speeds whenever they wanted. With the car on, the fans blew at full speed.

Crazy. I used a shop vac to get the water out of the ECU/fuse tub under the cowl. I used the shop vac to get as much water off the carpet as I could, and I also propped a big fan in the drivers side pointing at the floor. That pretty much dried the capret out. I was luck and did not get water down in the CCM. It was bone dry. I am still looking for issues.

[diagnosticator]

When water gets into the cabin and floods the driver's side foot well, it is typically because the ECU box overflowed water that drips down onto the Central Electric Control Module,J519, that is mounted upside down below the row of relays under the driver's side dash. The CECM controls primarily the exterior lighting, headlights, parking lights, turn signals, and interior Dome light.
The Central Convenience Module, J393, controls the foot well lights and door control modules, alarm system, rear lid latch release motor, plus other circuits. Check the CECM J519, under the dash for water soaking also, when the driver's side carpet is wet/flooded.

[PhunkFX]

That is good info diag, should I also be looking into my CECM? Is there any way to see if this is functioning in VAG-COM?

[hbodo08]

ecu box for sure

happend to me every time it rained and i washed my car and it was because it was cracked

a new one at the dealer is like 35 bucks

[bigblue]

Ya, I've had troubles with the ccm on many passats I've worked on... mainly because some people don't think the inside of the car being filled with water is no problem... because what engineer in their right mind would hide important modules under the carpeting of the car?

I don't see why the carpets arent waterproof... my old vw cabriolet floods all the time and all I do is pull the carpet up so that all the water goes in one spot an shop vac it up. The water doesn't get past the carpet and the metal underneath is perfectly dry.

[ilko]

UPDATE: The ECU compartment is bone dry...

I just stopped by the car and first thing I notice was that the battery was dead. So I proceded to open the ECU box and surprise - not a trace of water there. So weird!!

Tomorrow I'll look under the dash to see what the situation is there. Any tips on what could be the cause now that relay 219 is ruled out will be much appreciated!

Thanks!!

[alpinestar180]

clean your sunroof drains?

[ilko]

I found the cause of my problem - a bad grommet directly under the steering wheel. The sunroof drains may have gotten clogged too but I won't be able to tell until I can get the sunroof to work again.

Which leads me to the electrical part of my issues... My CCM took a nice long bath for 3 days. Think it'll buff out?





It was submerged in over 2" of water... I have a new one on order and will report back after I install it. None of the relays behind the instrument cluster were wet or damaged, so that's the good news. And now that the CCM is out I shouldn't have the dead battery issue any more.

I'll keep you all posted and thanks again for the help!

[Synthetik]

Hey ilko, glad you located the problem. How hard is it to check the relays under the steering column/ how hard is to check the health of that unit

[alpinestar180]

holy crap!

[diagnosticator]

That is good info diag, should I also be looking into my CECM? Is there any way to see if this is functioning in VAG-COM?

Hard to say. I can be damaged and still look OK on the scan. You need to remove the CECM and then take the cover off to know for sure.

[diagnosticator]

The sunroof drains may have gotten clogged too but I won't be able to tell until I can get the sunroof to work again.

If you remove the overhead console, there is a metal crank clipped to the sunroof motor that is provided to manually open and close the sunroof with. You should use the crank to open the sunroof and check the drains.

[ilko]

Hey ilko, glad you located the problem. How hard is it to check the relays under the steering column/ how hard is to check the health of that unit

Checking the relays is easy. You have to remove the kick panel under steering column. There are 3 8mm bolts, one behind the fuse panel and two on each corner at the bottom of the kick panel. Once you take them out you can wiggle out the kick panel. Just use a flash light and you'll see all the fuses and relays under there.

The CCM is harder to access. A real PITA actually. You have to remove the carpet and that's no fun. Mine's pulled up now and resting on the driver seat, and I think it's going to be quite a fight to put it back in...

If you remove the overhead console, there is a metal crank clipped to the sunroof motor that is provided to manually open and close the sunroof with. You should use the crank to open the sunroof and check the drains.

Thank you very much, I'll look into that!

[diagnosticator]

Checking the relays is easy. You have to remove the kick panel under steering column. There are 3 8mm bolts, one behind the fuse panel and two on each corner at the bottom of the kick panel. Once you take them out you can wiggle out the kick panel. Just use a flash light and you'll see all the fuses and relays under there.

The CCM is harder to access. A real PITA actually. You have to remove the carpet and that's no fun. Mine's pulled up now and resting on the driver seat, and I think it's going to be quite a fight to put it back in...



Thank you very much, I'll look into that!

Reviewing this thread, I just thought the metal crank is probably attached to the fuse panel cover, not the sunroof motor, but you still need to remove the overhead console to use the manual crank.

[PhunkFX]

My issue still exists even after my last tests. Unless there is someone in the Tri-State area that is good with this, I'm going to have to bring it to the dealer :-(

[ilko]

Hey Ricky,

Did you change the 219 relay? If not, you can have my spare and see if that helps. I got it last week thinking the ECU box was definitely flooded but as it turns out one of the other grommets was an issue so my original 219 is still good. Let me know if you want it.

Ilko

[PhunkFX]

Thanks Ilko! I changed my 219 already, but all that powers is the radiator fans and fan control module. I appreciate it though!. I have something funky going on someplace else. None of us are able to track this.

[ilko]

Update: I received the replacement CCM. Installed it last night and all the electrical components associated with it work - interior lights, windows, sunroof, alarm, etc.

Only thing left to do now is code my keys. I have a VAG-COM laptop but for some reason it won't recognize the car and can't connect. It's a very old computer - Dell Pentium II, running the 309.1 version of VAG-COM through the serial port. The computer and software worked fine until last year when the laptop decided not to start anymore. So I put it away and a few days ago I dug it out just for the hell of it and it just worked all of a sudden - starts up fine, all software works, etc. But now for some reason VAG-COM won't recognize the car. My luck is just rotten!

[PhunkFX]

Good for you Ilko! I still have the same problems. I just swapped out the CECM, same issues. I'm wondering if it is something as simple as an ignition switch.

[Synthetik]

Hey ilko, just a thought, make sure you have your laptop set to read from the correct COM port

[diagnosticator]

Your old VAG-COM won't connect to any controller, or just the CCM? Besides coding the keys, the CCM itself needs to me coded also. You can use the coding references to re build the coding value to enter into the CCM.

[ilko]

Hey ilko, just a thought, make sure you have your laptop set to read from the correct COM port

I remember something about the COM port from a while back, can you please refresh my memory? I'm searching the Ross-Tech Wiki now but I'm having a hard time locating that particular reference.

Your old VAG-COM won't connect to any controller, or just the CCM? Besides coding the keys, the CCM itself needs to me coded also. You can use the coding references to re build the coding value to enter into the CCM.

It won't connect with the car, period. I've tried different ports/controllers, auto scan, etc. It just doesn't work. Maybe I should post int he VAG-COM forum...

Thanks again for all your help guys!

[diagnosticator]

Yeah, there is a good VAG-COM forum on the 'tex.

[Synthetik]

I remember something about the COM port from a while back, can you please refresh my memory? I'm searching the Ross-Tech Wiki now but I'm having a hard time locating that particular reference.

Yea, well I have version 311 or whatever, and I'm on my mac right now so I'm going off memory. But when your at the car, key turned in the ignition, cable plugged. Go to Options, and at the top left there are the various com Ports to test. Keep that open, and then open device manager, somewhere in control panel/ hardware management or something. Scroll down till you find COM ports, right click on your cable and go to properties and make sure the COM port is set to 1,2,3, or 4. Try changing the value to whatever the computer allows.