Cam follower pulled...does this look ok?

[Coderedpl]

Because of this thread i got a new cam follower and pulled it a few minutes ago:
http://www.audizine.com/forum/showth...n-am-i-screwed

Snapped some pics. How does it look? Seems that the follower was close to being finished? Am i right or does the cam and pump look ok?


















Old vs new

[airbornerifleman]

WOW, good thing you pulled it when you did. Any longer and you have some serious issues.

[Coderedpl]

But the camshaft and pump are ok from the looks of it right? Hopefully this will fix the p2293 code im getting

[scottns]

Doesn't look that bad to me.... Looks better than mine did at 45k. The black was completely gone on mine but it was still smooth. I doubt this is the cause of your code.

[brownishwater]

WOW, good thing you pulled it when you did. Any longer and you have some serious issues.

X2. Fuel pump looks fine, camshaft is ok; I would just start replacing the follower every 20K miles or so going forward.


And I'm inclined to agree with the guy above. The amount of wear on the follower didn't look near enough to throw a code, but who knows?

[Coderedpl]

Will do, hope thats what the code is, if not, then what else can it be?

[bblume]

that follower looks really good actually.
Here's what mine looked like and THIS didn't even throw a code...so I doubt that yours did!

[Coderedpl]

one of the sensors then i guess"?

[GAIC Husky]

How many miles do you have on your car?

[makav3li]

yea that thing looks almost new...mine had no black on it at all and it didn't throw a code, i just changed it reading all the nasty threads

[bblume]

^^^this....
That alarmist above that was saying "you were lucky" was being a bit extreme.
This follower still has some life in it, but it doesn't hurt to replace it now and then.

[QUATTROA4B7]

How many miles do you have on your car?

x2

[fly300kts]

replace the follower and you are good to go

phil

[airbornerifleman]

^^^this....
That alarmist above that was saying "you were lucky" was being a bit extreme.
This follower still has some life in it, but it doesn't hurt to replace it now and then.

I was commenting on the 14th pic (3rd from last), which looks like (for lack of better term) a pot whole or a concave kind of wear in the follower.

[XCELR8]

Looks better than mine did. Pretty good in my opinion.

[crazytex21]

mine looked like that and i replaced it. like stated before, it had some life left in it, but the pump was alrady off and i had the part.

[bblume]

I was commenting on the 14th pic (3rd from last), which looks like (for lack of better term) a pot whole or a concave kind of wear in the follower.

ah so....I wonder which aspect causes the failure...I would guess the FP plunger finally punching through as opposed to the cam lobe, but who knows....if he's got it off and he's got a new follower then why not right???

[Coderedpl]

How many miles do you have on your car?

x2

About 73,500. Second time I'm changing the follower. The first time was around 50k miles.

I rather be safe then sorry on this. Since the cam follower is changed now, i will need to re-scan the car, clear the code, and keep troubleshooting

[clemsongt]

That follower looks very good. The follower is not worn out when the black is gone, and it still has a lot of black left on it. The follower is softer material than the cam, so that it wears in place of your cam. The issue is when it completely wears through and the end of the pump shaft starts rubbing on the cam lobe. Those aren't designed to rub, and it can score the cam lobe.

I'm not saying don't replace your follower, but you definitely shouldn't be concerned.

Also, everyone on these forums seem to be advocating replacing the followers at really low increments like 10,000 or 20,000 miles. Why is that? This part was originally designed to last the life of the vehicle, and from everything that I've read it sounds like the reason there were failures is from improper manufacturing procedures. Not every follower wore out prematurely, and now that those procedures have been corrected, there is no reason to expect new followers to fail prematurely.

[bblume]

^^this is true...I had mine replaced under CPO along with the FP and Cam and now I just have it checked every 15k or so.
But I've yet to have to replace it again. The whole thing happened around 55K and now I'm up to 97k with the second follower on
the APR HPFP.

[Coderedpl]

Im keeping my fingers crossed but it seems as the code is no longer there since I did this. I will scan tonight and next few days to see. Car feels smoother but maybe its just my head. Seeing as its been about 23k miles before I even bothered to check, I don't mind replacing it every such increment. Better be safe than sorry.

[VZWalex]

just change the follower and you will be fine ... check it every 4th oil change ... if you swap into a HPFP I suggest having it looked at after the 2nd oil change and if wear looks minimal then replace the next follower after the 3rd oil change ... every car is different ... I have to swap mine out every 3rd oil change due to the HPFP.

[clemsongt]

just change the follower and you will be fine ... check it every 4th oil change ... if you swap into a HPFP I suggest having it looked at after the 2nd oil change and if wear looks minimal then replace the next follower after the 3rd oil change ... every car is different ... I have to swap mine out every 3rd oil change due to the HPFP.

Why would you need to replace the part more frequently due to having a higher performing pump? Isn't the follower the same? Isn't the cam lobe the same? The only reason you might have more wear now is if you were running your car more frequently at higher rpms [or the tension in the spring in the new FP is much more than stock - which I doubt]. This would cause your follower to experience more wear per mile of driving distance. Even with an extreme change in driving habits, I would think this would be insignificant.

[Kubus]

I was going to say... Your cam follower looks close to brand new. I wouldnt be concerned at all. Mine had a huge convexity and looked like it was about to get chewed through

[bblume]

Why would you need to replace the part more frequently due to having a higher performing pump? Isn't the follower the same? Isn't the cam lobe the same? The only reason you might have more wear now is if you were running your car more frequently at higher rpms [or the tension in the spring in the new FP is much more than stock - which I doubt]. This would cause your follower to experience more wear per mile of driving distance. Even with an extreme change in driving habits, I would think this would be insignificant.

no...the upgraded pump pushes more fuel which puts more pressure on the follower/FP plunger/and cam lobe....add that to the fact when you get an APR HPFP (or if you get a kit with (YES) a different piston with a different pump volume) you'll stomping on that ish way more as well.

[Brillo]

Cam and follower both look very good. The black oxide layer Audi leaves on the follower is microscopically thin (<1 micron) and is not a hardening layer by any stretch.

[psiaddict85]

Mine had less wear at 23k miles and was giving me fuel cuts and CEL. Had the HPFP, Cam, FPR, Cam follower replaced under warranty. After that no problems.

[Coderedpl]

I drove the car for about 60 miles today and no codes showed. Will scan again tomorrow after another short trip. All seems good, could be just me but feels like it pulls better.

[B72.0T]

Getting mine changed tomorrow for the first time ever! 2007 CVT with 49,600 miles. Will post results.

[B72.0T]

Got mine replaced today for the first time @ 49600 mi. This is what it looked like. All of the black coating was gone off the top. No damage to the fuel pump, and it wasn't begging to chew through the follower either.

[shiro1745]

that follower looks really good actually.
Here's what mine looked like and THIS didn't even throw a code...so I doubt that yours did!

and much better then mine at 65k

[VZWalex]

Why would you need to replace the part more frequently due to having a higher performing pump? Isn't the follower the same? Isn't the cam lobe the same? The only reason you might have more wear now is if you were running your car more frequently at higher rpms [or the tension in the spring in the new FP is much more than stock - which I doubt]. This would cause your follower to experience more wear per mile of driving distance. Even with an extreme change in driving habits, I would think this would be insignificant.

Because of this ... thanks by the way for answering this :)

no...the upgraded pump pushes more fuel which puts more pressure on the follower/FP plunger/and cam lobe....add that to the fact when you get an APR HPFP (or if you get a kit with (YES) a different piston with a different pump volume) you'll stomping on that ish way more as well.

and since more wear is imminent ..... I take a Personal preference to spending a few bucks on replacing it sooner so that the cam follower that is always in the motor has the special black oxide coating that helps with the lubrication .... Its worth the piece of mind IMO .... and I dont drive my car hard ..... I rarely drive it as it is now ... but for not .. this interval is what will work for me .... It is due for an oil change and inspection ... I will see how not driving the car as often has affected the wear of the unit.


Just wanted to add ... that from experience .. when the Black Oxide coating wears off ... the cam follower begins to wear down WAY faster .... so why risk it?

[ryanworth]

Got mine replaced today for the first time @ 49600 mi. This is what it looked like. All of the black coating was gone off the top. No damage to the fuel pump, and it wasn't begging to chew through the follower either.

From what I know, the cam follower wear really only effects B7's before '07. Even after searching through all these threads, the guy's with 07+ have pretty solid followers still when the replace them.

Anyone else know if this is true or not? Maybe it can be confirmed based off of your VIN?

[bblume]

^^^allegedly this is because they used a different material for the cam lobes when the new revision came out.
That's also good for those of us that have had the cam replaced with the updated part.

[clemsongt]

Because of this ... thanks by the way for answering this :)



and since more wear is imminent ..... I take a Personal preference to spending a few bucks on replacing it sooner so that the cam follower that is always in the motor has the special black oxide coating that helps with the lubrication .... Its worth the piece of mind IMO .... and I dont drive my car hard ..... I rarely drive it as it is now ... but for not .. this interval is what will work for me .... It is due for an oil change and inspection ... I will see how not driving the car as often has affected the wear of the unit.


Just wanted to add ... that from experience .. when the Black Oxide coating wears off ... the cam follower begins to wear down WAY faster .... so why risk it?

Just because bblume says it, doesn't make it necessarily true [no offense].
My whole point for questioning is not to say people are wrong. It just seems to me that everyone might be blowing this whole cam follower thing out of proportion. Yes, I've seen the scary pictures and horror stories, but that is far from the majority of cases. I have read that on earlier MY B7s the odds of having a cam follower that was improperly manufactured are greater than late models and those people (myself included) should check the followers for premature wear. Once the follower has been replaced by a newer revision, the odds of failure decrease. The follower was not intended to be a wear part (like tires, oil, filters, belts, etc) and so it is either susceptible to premature failure or no failure at all (within reason...it could still wear out under perfect circumstances at 100,000+ miles).

Basically my point is this: Don't believe everything on the internet, and certainly don't always believe the small sample size to represent the population. Yes, checking it is not a bad idea, but no one needs to be scared there car is going to blow up if they don't replace it every 20,000 miles.


And another thing...the wear is due to revolutions of the engine. If you aren't driving the car and aren't accumulating miles, it isn't wearing...

[bblume]

if it's not an issue then why is the a TSB for it...?

Or better yet, why do the B8s use a cam roller in lieu of a thimble like fixture riding on a lobe..?

This is simply bad engineering on VAG's part. Kinda like putting the armrest over the e-brake.
It's true that later models are less likely to have the issue, but if it was foolproof then why isn't it a part of
the TFSI platform motors? You should check out the vortex with all of the modified GTIs running into the problem.
Interestingly enough it's a VW tuner that was (at one point) working on a means to convert the FSI motor on the 2.0Ts
to a roller system.
The worst part is that instead of doing any kind of recall or update (ala toyota stuck gas pedal) VAG is just waiting for them
to fail. Maybe it wasn't a safety concern, or maybe there aren't enough of these popping to make it full-blown recall, but to
say that what we (the people who have had or are about to experience this issue) are being over zealous and blowing things
out of proportion is just plain ignorant. If you don't want to check on a known weak point on your motor, so be it. Maybe you're
right, it probably won't happen as often as it appears to be happening, but the half-hour it takes to check is well worth the $3k+
you'd spend repairing your motor after the fact. And I'm fairly positive it was never mentioned that the car was going to 'blow up',
it causes severe fuel-cut-like symptoms under heavy load in 5th or 6th gear (usually), doesn't always prompt a CEL, and inevitably spreads
metal shards all throughout the motor that need to be removed before they cause bigger issues inside. I'm not sure anyone on here is saying that the majority of our cars ARE ABSOLUTELY GOING TO HAVE THIS PROBLEM, but I sure as hell am willing to put a little effort in to ensure that it doesn't happen again to mine. But like I said, go ahead and ignore this problem, you'll be just fine if you just ignore it! Kinda like the continent of Africa right???

[viziers]

Ok everyone this is my input on it... I have a first production B7 and before I went hog wildish on my build I had ALWAYS changed my oil at 10k with Castrol Syntec 5-30 or 0-30 can't remember then at 50kish I got Revo Stg1 and drove somewhat aggresively since then then at 114,000 miles I checked my cam follower for the FIRST time and noticed that it had some wear nothing to bad at all but enough to say hey why not change it.... Then after I had the motor apart for my rod install and soon had done my BT build with my APR pump installed I put a new one in and noticed that the follower had worn quicker so I replaced it and have been changng it every 10k since then because of excessive wear NOT due to the APR pump, and now am on my 4th follower and am at 145,000 miles...

Now I'm sure most people know that sometime in 06 our beloved govt decided to take out a critical lubricant out of our oil called ZDDP which is from my understanding zinc thus causing excessive wear on internal parts.. Is this the cause?? who knows BUT I do know within the first 2 years of owning my car 05 & 06 I had put about 90k on the clock and since then have been wearing out followers quicker.. So I have recently picked up 3 bottles of ZDDPlus (putting back in what our Govt took out)1 per oil change and will use Motul 0-30 oil and see how it goes from there.... Hope this helps anyone...


P.S. I burn no oil since new!!! Knock on wood!

here is where I got the ZDDPlus additive... if you subscribe to their email you get a free one time shipping!
http://www.eastwood.com/zddp-oil-additive.html

vizi

[clemsongt]

if it's not an issue then why is the a TSB for it...?

Or better yet, why do the B8s use a cam roller in lieu of a thimble like fixture riding on a lobe..?

This is simply bad engineering on VAG's part. Kinda like putting the armrest over the e-brake.
It's true that later models are less likely to have the issue, but if it was foolproof then why isn't it a part of
the TFSI platform motors? You should check out the vortex with all of the modified GTIs running into the problem.
Interestingly enough it's a VW tuner that was (at one point) working on a means to convert the FSI motor on the 2.0Ts
to a roller system.
The worst part is that instead of doing any kind of recall or update (ala toyota stuck gas pedal) VAG is just waiting for them
to fail. Maybe it wasn't a safety concern, or maybe there aren't enough of these popping to make it full-blown recall, but to
say that what we (the people who have had or are about to experience this issue) are being over zealous and blowing things
out of proportion is just plain ignorant. If you don't want to check on a known weak point on your motor, so be it. Maybe you're
right, it probably won't happen as often as it appears to be happening, but the half-hour it takes to check is well worth the $3k+
you'd spend repairing your motor after the fact. And I'm fairly positive it was never mentioned that the car was going to 'blow up',
it causes severe fuel-cut-like symptoms under heavy load in 5th or 6th gear (usually), doesn't always prompt a CEL, and inevitably spreads
metal shards all throughout the motor that need to be removed before they cause bigger issues inside. I'm not sure anyone on here is saying that the majority of our cars ARE ABSOLUTELY GOING TO HAVE THIS PROBLEM, but I sure as hell am willing to put a little effort in to ensure that it doesn't happen again to mine. But like I said, go ahead and ignore this problem, you'll be just fine if you just ignore it! Kinda like the continent of Africa right???

Never once did I say it was not an issue. Never once did I say that the problem should be ignored. In fact, even with it having a low chance of occurrence, the reward of replacing before $3K of damage occurs makes checking it almost irresponsible. I have checked mine and posted my results on this forum. At 65,000 miles my 05.5 follower had some wear, and I replaced it, but it would have probably been fine to keep using it.

My point was not to say it's not an issue because it is. My point was not to say it's not a bigger issue on Stage II+ or higher cars, because it may well be (I do not know all the changes made to an upgraded fuel pump but "more fuel" doesn't necessarily equal "more wear"). My point was a simple one, not every follower that is in these cars are going to fail. Some of the followers on the earlier models may have been manufactured improperly. This improper manufacturing lead to the issue that some people have had where the follower wears completely through. This is why there is a TSB. Because some people have the issue and no one knows exactly who is susceptible, everyone should check and be aware. However, this does not mean that every follower taken out that has a few scratches on it (like the one in the OP) is one step away from causing $3K of damage (yes, 'blow up' was my hyperbole for causing $3K of damage...no it won't blow up) like the second poster seemed to think.

[B72.0T]

I don't think mine was ever changed. If you run your fingers across the top of the follower you can't feel any scratches or anything. It's just the black coating that was gone off of it. I had the stealership check my cam once and they said I had the updated version. Even if I have the updated version it still causes wear no matter, but maybe noticeable less? Who knows. @49k miles it didnt look that bad to me, although I was still surprised. From now on I'll change it every 20k miles most likely.

[Coderedpl]

Update: Car runs totally fine, scanned the car at least three times with some hard driving in between and no codes.