Blizzak WS60 vs. LM60

[kapikog]

Has anyone tried both of these type of winter tires themselves? Obviously, the LMs are supposed to be more performance oriented, but can you notice this? I'm very sensitive to tire performance, but am willing to sacrifice some dry weather performance for better snow ice performance this time.

I've had an older version of the LMs in the past (wasn't impressed with snow/ice perf. as well as Goodyear Ice, which were a bit better for snow). The LMs were very good on dry and wet pavement though .

I was told by a dealer that they aren't much different, but there is a noticeable price diff. .

[Goped220]

Ws-60 for deep snow

Lm-60-dry roads. Light snow. Winter Performance tires.

I have used both. I like the lm-60 because it drives better all round. The ws-60 is sloppy but great for deep snow.

[xtrema]

LM60 H-rated 210km/h
WS60 T-rated 190km/h

So on a dry day you want to have some fun and punch it, you don't have to worry about speed as much.

[alexverve]

if u live in a country side, with lots of deep snow and no one plowing roads for u, WS might be a bit better. if u r in a city/suburbs - get LM's. they are performance winter tire - meaning All-season with really agressive snow pattern. they are quieter, do not "float" as much, grip on a dry/wet road is not bad at all, and they will have 90% of performance in the snow compared to WS. combined with AWD, that is all u need.
i have LM-25's (got slightly used ones on craiglist) and they are great. nice and comfortible, with plenty of grip. and last winter when NYC got covered with a blizzard - went driving at night. was the only one out there. so much fun. my traction control never blinked once. went doing donuts in parking lot with ESP off, car would correct itself and pull straight as soon as back started to slide wide. Quattro is great.

[Audiudo]

I have the Blizzak WS60 on my C5 A6 and love em. Had a couple of really heavy snow days here in NY and got me thru 2 states in a bad snow storm no problem.

[Goped220]

You guys should check out nokian winter tires! They are the king of winter!

[Prospect25]

Michelin Pilot Alpine PA3's for me. Just drove through a foot of fresh powder. BEASTLY!

[riegeraudi]

You guys should check out nokian winter tires! They are the king of winter!

+1 for Nokian but they have become pretty expensive. Alternative to them is the Gislaveds almost as good but cheaper. Lots of BMW guys use them so that must tell you something.

[GTMRS4]

I had them both on my B6. The WS-60 got me through tough storms. A buddy of mine with a B7 had the LMs and we went through a deep patch, and I had to push him.

[Leo]

I have WS60's on both the S4 and A6 and they are great in the snow. We ski a lot in the winter and are usually travelling on snow and ice covered roads and have never had any issues. They feel good on dry roads too, however won't give you the same performance in the dry as the LM's. I had Nokian Hakka 5's with studs on my STi, and nothing beat them in snow/ice - however in the dry, the studs actually were a detriment to getting traction, especially in the curves.

[sworksone]

The WS60 is a pure winter tire. The LM60 is essentially somewhere between an all season tire and a pure winter tire. Which one is best for you all depends on where you drive and where you would prefer to have the compromise - WS60's compromise performance in the dry, LM60's compromise a little in the dry and a little in the snow.

[adbender]

im pretty sure tire rack did a pretty extensive comparo of the two.

they had overall pretty similiar performance with trade-offs on ice and dry handling as expected.

I would opt for the performance winter personally so you can enjoy those clear roads most of the time

[nick71692]

I just got the ws60's installed and they are a bit sloppy with handling, but man they are comfortable, quiet, and I know they will go through snow like crazy. I personally did not care about the extra performance, I dont drive that crazy in the winter. I wanted something that was going to be as unstoppable as I could get. If you watch the videos on tire rack, that compare the ws 60 with the lm 60 the ws 60 was not far off of overall performance, the big difference is the speed rating.

[Goped220]

The WS60 is a pure winter tire. The LM60 is essentially somewhere between an all season tire and a pure winter tire. Which one is best for you all depends on where you drive and where you would prefer to have the compromise - WS60's compromise performance in the dry, LM60's compromise a little in the dry and a little in the snow.

X2 I agree! Very well said!

[kapikog]

I just got the ws60's installed and they are a bit sloppy with handling, but man they are comfortable, quiet, and I know they will go through snow like crazy. I personally did not care about the extra performance, I dont drive that crazy in the winter. I wanted something that was going to be as unstoppable as I could get. If you watch the videos on tire rack, that compare the ws 60 with the lm 60 the ws 60 was not far off of overall performance, the big difference is the speed rating.

Thanks guys, you've provided a good cross-section of experience/opinions.

Since I've tried both the LM (I think they 19 or 22s back then) and the Goodyears, and was underwelmed with their snow/ice performance, I'm leaning towards the WSs this time. This car is the first AWD car that I've had, and I'm really looking forward to some extreme snow performance this time. I have very high performance summer tires now (Potenza RE-11s), so now that the snow is about to fly, I would like the same for the extremes of this time of the season.

I'm also looking for a quieter/softer ride for a change. These RE-11s are brutal for noise/ride, even though my wheels are about 10 lbs less per corner with the RGRs compared to stock :-(

[Goped220]

Thanks guys, you've provided a good cross-section of experience/opinions.

Since I've tried both the LM (I think they 19 or 22s back then) and the Goodyears, and was underwelmed with their snow/ice performance, I'm leaning towards the WSs this time. This car is the first AWD car that I've had, and I'm really looking forward to some extreme snow performance this time. I have very high performance summer tires now (Potenza RE-11s), so now that the snow is about to fly, I would like the same for the extremes of this time of the season.

I'm also looking for a quieter/softer ride for a change. These RE-11s are brutal for noise/ride, even though my wheels are about 10 lbs less per corner with the RGRs compared to stock :-(

I had the bridgestone RE-11. But I am going to upgrade in the spring to either the Yokohama ADVAN A048 or Toyo R888, Nitto NT01 or Nitto NT555II. Good Luck!

[flew66]

Tirerack has a YouTube video that compare these two tires. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gPu9lR0Egeg
I have just put on the LM60 last week. So far I can only say that the LM60 is not bad at all on dry pavement.

[sworksone]

Thanks guys, you've provided a good cross-section of experience/opinions.

Since I've tried both the LM (I think they 19 or 22s back then) and the Goodyears, and was underwelmed with their snow/ice performance, I'm leaning towards the WSs this time. This car is the first AWD car that I've had, and I'm really looking forward to some extreme snow performance this time. I have very high performance summer tires now (Potenza RE-11s), so now that the snow is about to fly, I would like the same for the extremes of this time of the season.

I'm also looking for a quieter/softer ride for a change. These RE-11s are brutal for noise/ride, even though my wheels are about 10 lbs less per corner with the RGRs compared to stock :-(

Another tire to check out in comparison to the WS60 is the Michelin X-Ice2. I was looking for a tire with the same characteristics you were and was very impressed with the overall performance last year. I can't wait to get a bit more snow on the ground this year to test them out again.

[kapikog]

Tirerack has a YouTube video that compare these two tires. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gPu9lR0Egeg
I have just put on the LM60 last week. So far I can only say that the LM60 is not bad at all on dry pavement.

Thanks - for some reason, I didn't see that video. Do you know how the wear rates compare between them. I didn't notice any tread wear rating on either of them...

[NHS4]

Is anyone running the Pirellis as an alternative to the LM's or Dunlops?

[harbour456]

Is anyone running the Pirellis as an alternative to the LM's or Dunlops?

Just put on my winters last week but no snow just yet. Pirelli 210 Sotozero Series II 245/40/18 on Tirerack rims. My previous RWD BMW 330i had the WS-60's on it and I was happy with those tires but I felt I'd rather have a more performance oriented snow tire on the S4 given that it already has AWD. We'll see how it goes and I'll give some updates on the Pirellis once I have some slippery stuff to try them out on!

[tbconrad]

Just put on my winters last week but no snow just yet. Pirelli 210 Sotozero Series II 245/40/18 on Tirerack rims. My previous RWD BMW 330i had the WS-60's on it and I was happy with those tires but I felt I'd rather have a more performance oriented snow tire on the S4 given that it already has AWD. We'll see how it goes and I'll give some updates on the Pirellis once I have some slippery stuff to try them out on!

is this your first winter with the Sotozero?

[harbour456]

is this your first winter with the Sotozero?

Yes, the first winter... hence can't comment on their snow/ice performance yet. Performance in the dry and wet is excellent however. I don't think I'm giving up much control or feel at all compared to my summers. I'm sure at the limit grip would be lower but they're really excellent... the real test will be when the snow flies!

[tbconrad]

Yes, the first winter... hence can't comment on their snow/ice performance yet. Performance in the dry and wet is excellent however. I don't think I'm giving up much control or feel at all compared to my summers. I'm sure at the limit grip would be lower but they're really excellent... the real test will be when the snow flies!

I just picked up a set from TireRack too. Didn't see any reviews there. Was hoping someone had some good experience

[NHS4]

I think I'm going to try the Pirellis as well. Leaning towards a set of OEM 18" wheels for durability as my last set of aftermarket wheels didn't age well. I've run Blizzacks (WS something...) and Nordfrost on my AWD BMW and both made the car unstoppable, so I'm somewhat leary of trading snow/ice performance for fair weather handling. With my car projected to arrive in late December with 19's and summers, I'm starting to worry if I delay much longer I won't have any choices. I wish there was more feedback on TireRack for the Pirelli besides guys with Corvettes...

[kapikog]

I just got the ws60's installed and they are a bit sloppy with handling, but man they are comfortable, quiet, and I know they will go through snow like crazy. I personally did not care about the extra performance, I dont drive that crazy in the winter. I wanted something that was going to be as unstoppable as I could get. If you watch the videos on tire rack, that compare the ws 60 with the lm 60 the ws 60 was not far off of overall performance, the big difference is the speed rating.

I just got the WS-60s installed earlier this week and agree with your assesment (so far, no snow though). I was a little disappointed with the pricing though. They were only a couple hundred bucks cheaper than my RE-11s :o. I'm used to winters being noticeably cheaper.

BTW the DTA audi dealer princing was outrageuos! For the Dunlops they wanted CDN$2150 vs. CDN$1400 from my local Goodyear dealer :o. BTW, I paid less than CDN$1500 for the RE-11s...

[xtrema]

Finally got a storm to test out lm60. It's pretty good but I still lost traction a few times where think ws70 would not.

[NHS4]

I just got the WS-60s installed earlier this week and agree with your assesment (so far, no snow though). I was a little disappointed with the pricing though. They were only a couple hundred bucks cheaper than my RE-11s :o. I'm used to winters being noticeably cheaper.

BTW the DTA audi dealer princing was outrageuos! For the Dunlops they wanted CDN$2150 vs. CDN$1400 from my local Goodyear dealer :o. BTW, I paid less than CDN$1500 for the RE-11s...

I had decided to order the WS-60s yesterday from TireRack. Submitted order and got a call from Doc- apparently these don't have the sidewall rating for the weight of the S4 so he advised against them. After a quick chat we switched to the Pirellis which he indicated were comparable to the LM's but a couple hundred cheaper.

[peppeS4]

I went with the LM's. Haven't driven them in snow yet but I am quite impressed by both the quietness as well as the handling of this winter tire. I had Dunlop M3's on my last 3 rides and while they were great all around I always felt they were a bit too loud. Can't wait to test these babies out in some snow!

[Leo]

I had decided to order the WS-60s yesterday from TireRack. Submitted order and got a call from Doc- apparently these don't have the sidewall rating for the weight of the S4 so he advised against them. After a quick chat we switched to the Pirellis which he indicated were comparable to the LM's but a couple hundred cheaper.

The WS60's should be OK for the B8 S4, I just looked at the info on my sidewall, and found the following:

Bridgestone Blizzak WS60
225/50R17 94R
Max load 670kg /1477 lbs...........per tire
300 kpa / 44 psi max press

So for a car that weighs 4000 lbs plus passengers, there is a lot of wiggle room.


For those wondering, YES, I was able to fit 17s.

[kapikog]

I've had the WS-60s on for about 1 week now. Soft ride and very quiet, but they feel like they're made of foam when you enter a corner. You really need to readjust your entry speeds with these tires.

I'm really hoping that they'll make up for this when the snow arrives, because the LMs had nothing like this kind of performance drop-off in the dry. I expected a difference, just not this much :o.

[b_desom]

the XL sidewall requirement is only for the 19's - 18" WS60's are OK

[NHS4]

Good news that Blizzaks are an option- my Pirelli's arrived Monday. I was torn between the Blizzaks and Pirelli's anyway, so we'll see how these do if the car ever arrives... (being built this week!)

[xtrema]

I've had the WS-60s on for about 1 week now. Soft ride and very quiet, but they feel like they're made of foam when you enter a corner. You really need to readjust your entry speeds with these tires.

I'm really hoping that they'll make up for this when the snow arrives, because the LMs had nothing like this kind of performance drop-off in the dry. I expected a difference, just not this much :o.

After a week in -30c weather and ice everywhere, I'm happy I picked LM over WS. Traction can be better but I never lost control. I think it's a good compromise.

[Leo]

I've had the WS-60s on for about 1 week now. Soft ride and very quiet, but they feel like they're made of foam when you enter a corner. You really need to readjust your entry speeds with these tires.

I'm really hoping that they'll make up for this when the snow arrives, because the LMs had nothing like this kind of performance drop-off in the dry. I expected a difference, just not this much :o.

They will handle better (harden up) when it gets colder, below -10C, it's still too hot out there so they definitely feel way "softer" now.

[Matt336]

I just ordered my WS60s on Tuesday since my Audi came with the Pirelli summer tires (which are terrible in pretty much anything other than dry roads). I hope to do a full review on them sometime this winter as I live in North Dakota and the weather has been pretty brutal this past week. From what I have found, everyone on here is saying the same thing, WS60s are the way to go if you get a lot of snow and can sacrifice the dry road performance. Around here, dry roads are a blessing so the WS60s were an easy choice for me.

[CaymanS4]

Pirelli Sottozero Series II finally got to see snow today, just drove through 1/2 foot with ease, plus they're awesome in the rain and dry.
Bought them last year and it didn't snow.

[kapikog]

Pirelli Sottozero Series II finally got to see snow today, just drove through 1/2 foot with ease, plus they're awesome in the rain and dry.
Bought them last year and it didn't snow.

Didn't snow?? You must be in B.C.

[CaymanS4]

Didn't snow?? You must be in B.C.

Vancouver... today, the snow is nearly all gone.

[hyho]

it will be back this weekend in Vancouver, but then, I don't have my LM60s yet :(