b6 s4 or volvo S60R..?

[sasha18yug]

Hey guys i was originally planing on getting a S60 R (volvo) but now i am considering of getting the s4 ...both of them have awd and powerful engines...i never had an v8 engine and the sound is just amazing...i do allot of km on the highway and wanted to know what the average consumption is ...can i get 27 mpg or 24 ...? comparing the 2 cars i already know that the volvo has problems with cylinder clutch slave and the some problems at the awd system.....does the s4 have some known issues...? if you guys would give me some advice i would appreciate...thanks guys..!

[S4mser]

After driving both....go with the S4 by a LONG shot. I get about 25 mpg average on the highway with mine.

[Faulk]

25 highway, while it may be true, won't nearly be your average for any long trip. If you include leaving your driveway, backroads to highway, accelerating on freeway etc. It's 21-22 mpg no matter how you cut it.

I looked at the Volvo, but was concerned about engine problems at the time. Does the one you are looking at have the Turbo 5 cylinder? I remember, vaguely, that it was prone to problems. Check into it.

[mbgt72]

I looked into the S60R as well as the oldschool CTS-V. The volvo was nice, but just seemed soul-less and very blah. I mean some performance trip pieces and such added, but you almost felt like this could be the stock volvo package. The volvo quickly dropped off of my list and was looking at only the CTS-V and the S4, lets just say I made the right choice for me!

Also what's the relability on those volvo's long term? I think they were pushing 19lbs of boost stock or soemthing like that. Just didn't know if there were any known issues or even enough of them to know about it. Also if you car at all about "a car community", you just won't have any following with the volvo due. Just thoughts to think about.


And then comes the mpg on the S4. . . First off, auto has a slightly different final gear ratio and gets about ~2mpg on interstate driving compared to most of the MT6 S4's. But the best I see ever is about 21mpg (I have a MT6), and that's cruise on 75 or below and being a good little boy. However, those with headers see about a ~2mpg pickup in highway cruising, so if you got a S4 Auto and got the JHM LongTube Headers, you could get almost 25mpg if you cruised around 75mph or below, but more importantly, you'd have a SICK sounding S4 with boatloads more torque (like 40lbft+ more at the wheels!)! Haha, off topic I know, but come on, who doesn't want headers, you just gotta find a good way to justify them to yourself.

[euroazfck]

Go with the s4

[beemercer]

no sideways motors for me

[sasha18yug]

25 highway, while it may be true, won't nearly be your average for any long trip. If you include leaving your driveway, backroads to highway, accelerating on freeway etc. It's 21-22 mpg no matter how you cut it.

I looked at the Volvo, but was concerned about engine problems at the time. Does the one you are looking at have the Turbo 5 cylinder? I remember, vaguely, that it was prone to problems. Check into it.

Thanks for the quick reply...the volvo engine does not have problems the real problem at volvo is the clutch slave (it is inside the gearbox ) when that fails you have to replace it and with it the clutch and maybe the flywheel and another problem is the awd i mean the Angle Gear is bad design and brakes even if you don't do launches and all that...so both repairs at the dealer will get you to spend 4500 $ not nice..:))...i am trying to take a good car for the log run...i wanna do some mods if i get it and my ultimate goal is to run 12 s....keep the ideas coming guys i appreciate ..!

[dparm]

Well this is is an Audi site...I wonder what people will recommend.

Honestly, the S60 R has some issues. The turning radius is ridiculous. Parts are not very easy to get and cost a fortune. The interior is weird.

The S4 is not perfect either. It gets crappy gas mileage. Parts are expensive. Working under the hood sucks.

[beemercer]

Well if want 12's JHM can hook up your S4, or you can get the S60R and get in contact with Mike@VAST in Detroit. Last I heard he was still looking for a car to get working on some I5 Volvo stuff.

[drew]

volvos are teh ghey. audi all the way. plus you can't beat quattro...

[Phillyb7s4]

my bro has an S60r and there are not many tuning options for that car unless you take a custom route. S4 100%, nothing beats the sound of that v8

[beemercer]

my bro has an S60r and there are not many tuning options for that car unless you take a custom route. S4 100%, nothing beats the sound of that v8

Tell him to contact VAST. No bullshit, last time I talked to him Mike was very interested in doing some work on S60R's.. he actually owns one himself

[oblu]

For some reason I was really excited about the S60R when it was first coming out. I think it dropped off the short list, correct me if I'm remembering wrong, because I found out it was FWD until the diff detected slip and only then sent power rearward. That was even closer to failwheeldrive than the 50/50, u is for understeer, quattro.

[Rejmow]

Haldex isn't AWD in my eyes, S4 is the way to go. Quattro is more fun and better performance. And i'm guessing you get alot of snow in Ontario?


EDIT: Oblu yes, the haldex awd system won't connect the rear wheels untill the front wheels are spinning or the car is going sideways.

[dylanbike1]

I too looked at the S60 R. Went w. the S4.

SO happy I did! V8 Sound... Tuning options... Community of owners is much larger for the S4 and stuff like DIYs are readily available.

[belinko]

My buddy has a S60R and he wouldn't trade it for anything.

He's got one with the baseball leather stitching and the "red leather" fully loaded with all of the options. The in car dynamic ride control/suspension adjust ability works great. The car has plenty of power. The S60R has far more tuning potential with the 5cyl Turbo than the NA V8 of the S4. Also, there is much more that you can do with the body of the S60R, there are OEM front lips, side skirts, rear valences, etc., which are not available for the S4. All in all both are great cars and both will be "high" maintenance. Check out the Volvo forums (swede speed) for additional info. $.02

Here are some pics of his car.

[beemercer]

The N/A V8's have plenty of tuning potential once you get a good blower on it

[belinko]

^^ OK, don't forget the price tag.

[beemercer]

I know what it is, and it really isn't that much for the amount of power you can potentially put down if you run it balls out.

[belinko]

$10 - $25K for 100 - 150 all wheel horse power gain, isn't that good of a price/performance ratio, in comparison to just about any turbo'd vehicle.

[beemercer]

I'm not talking about either the APR or the PES blowers

[05 B6 S4]

You are on an Audi forum soooo yyyaaaaa!!!!!!
That Vulva does look nice ^^^^ but I see alot of them with two guys driving around with their scarves blowing in the wind or maybe that was the sound of the
exhaust?

[drew]

$10 - $25K for 100 - 150 all wheel horse power gain, isn't that good of a price/performance ratio, in comparison to just about any turbo'd vehicle.

thank you sherlock holmes. now back to the b5 forum with you...

[Homer]

This was a consideration of mine over the summer when I was looking at cars. I didn't want anything to do with the V8 in the S4 though, so the A4 was my other choice. Go with the R but ONLY if its CPO, Manual and not the nordkap blue interior. It wears horribly.
They are lacking a little in the gadget department. The dash isn't the best looking thing out there.
It is more roomy than the S/A4. Turning radius is horrible, but you can learn around it.
The seats are amazingly comfortable.
The 5 cylinder is an awesome engine, rather bulletproof. (Hell I'm putting one in my 240) Alot less problems than the 4.2 V8.
It's a crap shoot, both are expensive to maintain.

I don't regret buying the A4 in the least. It's let me focus on my Volvo more.

[earthtodan]

Personally after owning a turbo for a few weeks (Audi A4) I never want to own a turbocharged car again. It is not a replacement for displacement.

[drew]

Personally after owning a turbo for a few weeks (Audi A4) I never want to own a turbocharged car again. It is not a replacement for displacement.

yeah that's because you drove an a4 with no balls and a tiny little motor. try a twin charged pcar, nissan gtr, and other decent displacement cars with turbos and you will quickly change your mind...

[Tweak]

You are on an Audi forum soooo yyyaaaaa!!!!!!
That Vulva does look nice ^^^^ but I see alot of them with two guys driving around with their scarves blowing in the wind or maybe that was the sound of the
exhaust?

HAHA!

I looked at the R prior to purchasing the S and I just wasn't feeling the interior AT ALL. That and the sound and feel of a V8 wins every time for me.

[sasha18yug]

Nice input guys ... if i would buy the audi i would go NA all the way to reach the 12sec mark ;) i am picky when it comes to tuning i would not lut forced induction on the v8 just because i love the sound of it and i have a my own thinking for example: an k20 honda engine in my opinion should build it NA only because of the vtec sounds :)) so that been clarified the v8 stays Na!! The volvo engine is pretty reliable and can take on stock internals 420 at the cranck (sweedspeed info) but the awd has its issues?! Its true that you can get cheaper performance out of turbo cars till you reach a point when u need : fuel pump, turbo, manifold, big intercooler ... And then we come to the lag thing and a turbo wontblast more then 50k even if you drive it easy and track it sometimes ... The cost of one plus the cost to have a reliable awd in the volvo is not cheap ?! Thats why i am thinking of getting the audi ... But like i said i am worried about fuel cause i drive allot on the highway;) ... What are the issues with the engine failure guys ?! I've read something ?! Is it common ?

[earthtodan]

yeah that's because you drove an a4 with no balls and a tiny little motor. try a twin charged pcar, nissan gtr, and other decent displacement cars with turbos and you will quickly change your mind...

Sure, but the OP is considering a Volvo S60R, which has a bigger engine than the A4 but not as big as the S4 V8. So the question is, does the Volvo make enough power outside the boost range to satisfy? Will it easily surge forward when you pick up the clutch the way an S4 will, or does it struggle a little until the turbo kicks in? Does the power fall off like a rock once you get above peak boost, leaving you with a useless upper half of the RPM range? I don't know the answers to these questions because I've never driven a Volvo, but I'm saying the OP should pay attention to this and decide whether it will be a problem.

[earthtodan]

Oh yeah, turbo lag is also a real downer. Again I'm using the A4 as a reference. If you're used to driving a Honda with a throttle cable and the quick response it gives, pay close attention to the TR of the turbo when you drive it. Rev it in neutral and note the delay. With my A4 I can't even rev match on the downshifts because it takes several seconds for the engine to catch up. The S4 is responsive and downshifts easily.

The quattro system is not known to be problematic.

[VegasAIV]

Granted a B6 S4 is a gorgeous car and I am an audi fanatic till the end, I truly believe that most people (even some here) dont truly understand or respect the S60R. That car is amazing, fast, and handles like its on rails. Whoever says the interior sucks its out of their mind, and granted its like most cars, it will have some issues. But whoever states that its a lot is wrong and needs to reread their notes. I5 turbo is an awesome motor, and even though it doesnt "growl" like a V8, who cares, it will eat a b6 s4 all day. I was looking at one before I got my b7 and there are actually tons of things that you can do with that car. check out sights like swedespeed and elevatecars.com With chip, DP, and exhaust youre going to already be pushing 375 on that car without the weight of a V8. Im not hating on audi or anything whatsoever, but I just feel that most people dont give the s60r the respect that it truly deserves.

[VegasAIV]

Oh yeah, turbo lag is also a real downer. Again I'm using the A4 as a reference. If you're used to driving a Honda with a throttle cable and the quick response it gives, pay close attention to the TR of the turbo when you drive it. Rev it in neutral and note the delay. With my A4 I can't even rev match on the downshifts because it takes several seconds for the engine to catch up. The S4 is responsive and downshifts easily.

The quattro system is not known to be problematic.

youre talking about a 200hp A4 turbo and a 300hp S4 v8.....thats comparing apples and oranges my friend, has nothing to do with the S60r since the power in the volvo is there readily available at the touch of the gas. Like i said before, you actually have to drive the car to respect it.

[beemercer]

Whoever says the interior sucks its out of their mind

I've driven 2 S60R's and plenty of other S60's.. I was immediately struck by the awkwardness of the interior every time.

I5 turbo is an awesome motor, and even though it doesnt "growl" like a V8, who cares, it will eat a b6 s4 all day. I was looking at one before I got my b7 and there are actually tons of things that you can do with that car. check out sights like swedespeed and elevatecars.com

Cool that you can mod the I5; but stock for stock, no, the S60R isn't going to be eating a B6/B7 S4.

With chip, DP, and exhaust youre going to already be pushing 375

Okay, with a tune, downpipes, catback and a ported intake manifold my car did 328whp/300wtq.. so 375chp is a whole lot more, right?

on that car without the weight of a V8.

Wow, because the chain 4.2 weighs a lot, really its a brick... it's not all aluminum, and not lighter than an LS1, and a B6 S4 really weighs a ton more than an S60R...

[DuncanC]

no sideways motors for me

You'll never go wrong following this rule. No proper car would mount the motor the incorrect direction.

Go with the S4 if you love to drive. If you want something unique, cool looking, and plan to leave it stock and don't mind that the AWD system is a joke and isn't AWD then I guess you could look at the volvo. But I wouldn't.

[wtfwill]

i was looking at the S60R as well, but after test driving there was really no contest. my sig tells the rest.

make the right choice. this may be your last chance to own a v8 with quattro.

[Hyde]

I considered the S60R for like a day ... In the end, it was too big, not fast enough (stock), and not pretty enough. Hopefully Audi does build that new quattro, because I do want to get into an I5 one day.

No proper car would mount the motor the incorrect direction.

So the Lamborghini Miura isn't a proper car?

[sasha18yug]

Granted a B6 S4 is a gorgeous car and I am an audi fanatic till the end, I truly believe that most people (even some here) dont truly understand or respect the S60R. That car is amazing, fast, and handles like its on rails. Whoever says the interior sucks its out of their mind, and granted its like most cars, it will have some issues. But whoever states that its a lot is wrong and needs to reread their notes. I5 turbo is an awesome motor, and even though it doesnt "growl" like a V8, who cares, it will eat a b6 s4 all day. I was looking at one before I got my b7 and there are actually tons of things that you can do with that car. check out sights like swedespeed and elevatecars.com With chip, DP, and exhaust youre going to already be pushing 375 on that car without the weight of a V8. Im not hating on audi or anything whatsoever, but I just feel that most people dont give the s60r the respect that it truly deserves.

i allready have driven the s60r back in europe ...it was a stock one and the power is there i think it has the sam tourque as the v8 from 2000 rpm...i already have read allot on swedspeed and other volvo forums...we don't talk about interior design...i like the interior of both cars and it does not really matter ...i chose reliability and performance over looks...the s60r drives amazing in my opinion for such a heavy car...you have a point that you can make 375 at the crank...but when it comes to stock ...this are the numbers i found : 240 250 whp in good conditions...i donno about the audi but i think it puts down 280 whp? correct me if i'm wrong...i am not gonna keep the cars stock and i know that the volvo is gonna be cheaper to tune and cheaper to get power ot of it..my qusetion here is...is it cheaper to get 12s in volvo with replacement of cylinder slave and angle gear ( its not if but when is it gonna happend) and is the audi reliable enough so it makes you pay 2500 for some headers that make the car move fast...here is the real argue...2 different cars that are close in performance...but ho takes the win reliability against $ spend per hp....?

[earthtodan]

make the right choice. this may be your last chance to own a v8 with quattro.

^^This.

Within ten years there will be more small turbocharged options than you will know what to do with.

[wtfwill]

and not just any v8, but the tried-and-true 4.2 that's been in production by audi for quite some time. this engine is rock solid, and with very basic maintenance will last you a very long time. biggest gripe in the S4 is how the engine is litterally fuckin' wedged in there, but when you blip the throttle .. you will bless every penny that goes into your gas tank.

[Mr. Corey]

This video says it all, especially the last thing Clarkson says. Enough said!!!!!!