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  1. #1
    Veteran Member Four Rings old guy's Avatar
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    Vacuum lines and check valves explained

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    I have noticed that lately there have been numerous threads concerning the mess of vacuum hoses and check valves present on the 1.8T motor. A particularly good thread worth reading is this one (Clicky click ). I am glad to see that many are taking the approach of maintaining the systems rather than just ripping everything out. Usually when you do this there are some adverse effects (such as unwanted CEL’s and failed emissions testing). The exact configurations of these systems vary from year to year so instead of trying to identify each component I thought it might be a little more useful to describe what each system does so the function can be applied to whatever system is on your particular model year.

    Keep in mind that all of these systems are vacuum operated. The vacuum sources can either be the TIP (turbo inlet pipe) or the intake manifold. On a normally aspirated motor the intake manifold provides a constant source of vacuum. However, with a turbo the intake manifold switches from vacuum to boost pressure. Consequently any and all vacuum line connected to the intake manifold will have to be protected by a check valve. The check valve will always allow flow toward the intake manifold and will block the boost pressure from going in the opposite direction.

    There are basically 5 separate systems. The evap emissions control (N80), block breathing (PRV/PCV), brake vacuum (suction jet pump), DV modulation (N249) and SAI (N112) system. Depending upon the model year various components of these systems may be cross connected but the basic function remains the same. Only 2 of these systems actually move air. That would be the emission control and block breathing systems. The other 3 systems simply provide a vacuum source.

    Evap emissions control: This system provides the purging and burning of the hydrocarbons that collect in the fuel tank/charcoal canister. There is a collection line coming from the fuel tank canister and connecting to the N80 valve just above the air box. The fumes are pulled through the N80 valve and ultimately into the intake stream. Just past the N80 valve there is a “Y” connector that provides the necessary vacuum source. One line from the “Y” runs across the back of the motor and ultimately connects to the intake manifold. This line is protected with several check valves for when the manifold is under boost pressure. Also connected to this line is the vacuum source line for the LDP (leak detection pump) that is located in the driver’s side rear wheel well. This is one of the two hard plastic lines that you see running from underneath the intake manifold to the driver’s side front fender. The other line from the “Y” connects to the TIP to provide a vacuum source for when the intake manifold line is under boost.

    Block Breathing System: The two main components of this system are the PRV (pressure regulating valve) and the PCV (positive crankcase ventilation valve) AKA the block breather valve. There are variations on the block breather and variations on the location of the PRV but the functions remain the same. When the manifold is under vacuum the purge air is pulled from the block from two different locations. One source is from the lower vent just above the oil cooler/oil filter housing. The other location is to the back of the valve cover. These two breathers are connected by fairly large diameter hoses. The two connect at a "T" located underneath the manifold. This allows the pressures to equalize between the block and valve cover. The block breather valve is inserted into the "T" and then connects directly to the intake manifold. On late 2003 and newer models there is also the small hard pipe that attaches to the larger hard pipe on the back of the valve cover. The large hard pipe on the back of the valve cover is a double walled pipe that provides a small baffle for the connection of the smaller breather pipe. This hose is is protected with a check valve and also provides additional purgeflow to the intake manifold. On '04 and newer models the check valve for this breather line is incorporated into the PCV valve as one unit.

    When the block breather is pulling air out of the block the PRV is metering air into the block. This purge air is being drawn from the connection between the PRV and the TIP (turbo inlet pipe). Once the intake manifold goes into a boost condition the block breather (PCV) can no longer provide a vacuum source to purge the block pressure. As the block pressure starts to build from valve guide/piston blow-by gasses the PRV switches functions and instead of metering air into the block through a small orifice it acts as a relief valve and dumps the blow-by gasses into the TIP. There is a spring loaded diaphragm in the PRV that opens up when the block pressure builds to a high enough level.

    Brake vacuum (suction jet pump): This device provides a vacuum source for the brake vacuum booster. The SJP has two internal “flapper” or check valves to provide one directional flow. The right side the the SJP connects directly to the intake manifold. The internal flapper valve prevents back-flow from when the manifold is under boost. The angled line coming from the side connects to the a hard pipe that goes behind the block and ultimately connects to the TIP. When the manifold is providing a vacuum source this flow of air through the lower section of the SJP creates a venturi effect and amplifies the vacuum pull on the upper section of the SJP. There are variations on this connection. If you have an early ('02) model you may not have the TIP connection. Instead the venturi effect is generated by running the block breather hose through the SJP. There is also the "h" shaped hose that attaches the SJP to the brake vacuum booster. It has 2 additional connections. One connection is directly to the manifold, protected by a check valve. The second connection starts at the side port of the three-way check valve and is ultimately connected to the vacuum canister located underneath the driver’s side front fender. It is used by the N249 and the N112 as outlined below.

    DV modulation (N249) and SAI (N112) system: I am grouping these two systems together since they both draw vacuum from the same source. The line leaving the side port of the three way check valve referred to in the SJP section has its own check valve that provides an uninterrupted vacuum connection to the N249, N112 and the vacuum canister. This arraignment can provide a vacuum source via the vacuum canister to the N249 when the manifold is under boost. It can also provide a vacuum signal on a cold start to operate the N112. The N249 has three connections. It has a vacuum/boost signal line connection from the intake manifold, through the N249 and ultimately ending at the DV (diverter valve). The N249 also has the vacuum line referred to above. The ECU utilizes the N249 to replace the boost signal with a vacuum signal under certain conditions. The N112 is a simple on/off vacuum switch. It provides a vacuum signal to open the combi valve under cold start conditions.

    I hope my ramblings will be of some aid when trying to sort out and troubleshoot the plethora of vacuum lines and check valves on out 1.8T motors. As I stated at the start there are variations on all of these connections depending upon your model year. However the basic functions all remain the same. So if you understand the function you can figure out how it goes together.

    Cheers!
    Last edited by old guy; 09-17-2012 at 06:24 PM. Reason: cleaned it up a little
    '03 A4 5-MT Motoza tuned Frankenturbo F21L With full supporting mods. Sold (and missed dearly).
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  2. #2
    Veteran Member Four Rings bigblue's Avatar
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    So the lower angled hose is supposed to go to the vacuum canister? on my car it goes to a hard line that goes to the turbo inlet pipe. Thats the only place I'm stumped. On early b6 it goes to a vent in the side of the block. My car has no such vent so am I stuck with that hardline that goes to the tip?
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  3. #3
    Veteran Member Four Rings old guy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bigblue View Post
    So the lower angled hose is supposed to go to the vacuum canister? on my car it goes to a hard line that goes to the turbo inlet pipe. Thats the only place I'm stumped. On early b6 it goes to a vent in the side of the block. My car has no such vent so am I stuck with that hardline that goes to the tip?
    Good catch. An additional connection is to the hard line as you described and ultimately connects to the TIP. This is part of the venturi effect created by the SJP. It isn't meant to provide a vacuum source. I corrected the information above. There is a three way check valve coming from the "h" shaped hose at the top of the SJP that connects to the vacuum canister.
    Last edited by old guy; 09-25-2010 at 03:56 AM.
    '03 A4 5-MT Motoza tuned Frankenturbo F21L With full supporting mods. Sold (and missed dearly).
    '13 A5 6-MT Needs more Fun Stuff: Neuspeed PM / 3.0 TDI Intercooler / H&R OE Sport Springs / Bilstein B8 Shocks / TyrolSport Brake Stiffeners / ECS Short Shifter / S5 Side Skirts / RS Grille

  4. #4
    Veteran Member Four Rings bigblue's Avatar
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    ya I removed that and put a standard check valve there.
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  5. #5
    Veteran Member Four Rings martini's Avatar
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    great post... you need to add some photos onto this to make it clearer for everyone

    solid explanations though
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  6. #6
    Veteran Member Four Rings walky_talky20's Avatar
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    oldguy: Thanks for the write-up! Can you provide a vacuum diagram for the later B6 1.8T's? Specifically the 2004+ cars? I can't seem to find one.

  7. #7
    Veteran Member Four Rings bigblue's Avatar
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    This is the newer style

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  8. #8
    Senior Member Four Rings spector's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by martini View Post
    great post... you need to add some photos onto this to make it clearer for everyone

    solid explanations though
    Photos are coming on the thread that a4darkness created, that old guy linked to. I will also be helping a4darkness build a parts list for replacing all of that shizzle and we will try to find the best sources for parts at non-steaalership prices. With old guy's permission, I think it'd be cool to create a new thread once a4darkness' is complete combining the info in both threads in a nice, clean sticky.

  9. #9
    Veteran Member Four Rings old guy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by spector View Post
    Photos are coming on the thread that a4darkness created, that old guy linked to. I will also be helping a4darkness build a parts list for replacing all of that shizzle and we will try to find the best sources for parts at non-steaalership prices. With old guy's permission, I think it'd be cool to create a new thread once a4darkness' is complete combining the info in both threads in a nice, clean sticky.
    Feel free to blend anything I posted with the excellent information you and a4darkness' have provided. It should make a very nice reference sticky!
    '03 A4 5-MT Motoza tuned Frankenturbo F21L With full supporting mods. Sold (and missed dearly).
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  10. #10
    Established Member Two Rings
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    Old Guy, thank you for taking the time to write that up! Very helpful and well expalined, well done.

  11. #11
    Senior Member Three Rings Outerfroggy1's Avatar
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    bravo!

  12. #12
    Veteran Member Four Rings jonan's Avatar
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    old guy FTW...as always...
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  13. #13
    Veteran Member Four Rings jonan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by spector View Post
    Photos are coming on the thread that a4darkness created, that old guy linked to. I will also be helping a4darkness build a parts list for replacing all of that shizzle and we will try to find the best sources for parts at non-steaalership prices. With old guy's permission, I think it'd be cool to create a new thread once a4darkness' is complete combining the info in both threads in a nice, clean sticky.
    i gotta get up on this...my check valves are starting to deteriorate, AGAIN...sux...
    Want my guns??? ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ!!!

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    RS4 Mods (sprint):
    RNS-e MKII : ECS SS : JHM Spacers : Deflapped IM : UM Tune : KW V3s : Tubi Rumore : Hotchkiss F&R SBs : 034 Diff Inserts : Phil Special Headlights w/ STI Lenses : 10 Layers : Spare 07BNS (#masterrace) : Apikol Diff & Trans Mount

  14. #14
    Veteran Member Four Rings Turbavanttro's Avatar
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    General Question for Old Guy

    Bumping this awesome information with a question for you Old Guy.

    I have studied the three versions of the B6 vacuum/emmissions systems to death, and have finally come to a feeling of comfort regarding the systems/lines and understanding the various issues related to each of the versions, which appears there are generally 3 main setups. I have a late model B6 so I have the version with the double check valve/pcv at the "T" in the oil breather tube.

    That gets me to my question. I am building a 2.0 stroker , its going to have alot of power. But at the same time, I am keeping as much of the vacuum/emmissions system as possible. I will be adding a catch can of course, simple enough. But I will be moving things around just a bit to make everything routed nicely and easy to work on.

    That said, I'm considering revamping my late B6 vac setup to either the first or second generation B6 system. However, after studying the differences between the 3 systems, I started suspecting Audi made some of the changes they did over time to make the car operate more reliably/smoother (I suspected particular reasons like reducing sludge, provide stronger source of constant vacuum to the brake booster, and further separate the blow-by gases from the vacuum system). If one system was notably better than another or had reliability issues, that's what I'm trying to consider in my decision on which way to go.

    Thanks for any advice you have.
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    Veteran Member Four Rings old guy's Avatar
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    If you intend to retain the block breathing system (which I think is a good idea) my recommendation would be to use the late 2003 set-up. Following are my reasons for making this recommendation:

    The early system found on the '02 and early '03 models actually had a few less hoses. This set up routed the PCV line from the lower block breather through the SJP for the brake booster vacuum amplification. This exposed the SJP to all of the hydrocarbon vapors and blow-by gasses which could be detrimental to the efficiency and longevity of the SJP. The later two versions got around this problem by adding a fresh air supply from the TIP to the SJP. A much cleaner arrangement.

    Another difference between the first version and the later versions was an additional breather from the PRV connection to the downstream side of the PCV. In the second and third version it connects directly to the PCV housing. The second version does it with an in line check valve and a simple nipple off the PCV whereas the third version (as in your current set up) has the check valve and PCV all in one housing. This additional breather line was added at the same time the sludge issue was recognized and the VAG recommendation went to the larger filter and Synthetic oil. Consequently I feel this connection is worth having for sludge control.

    The third difference is in the materials used. The first and second version utilized a metal pipe connection for the pressure equalizing line connecting the upper and lower block breather ports. The later version replaced the metal pipe with a plastic one that seems to break rather easily.

    You may choose to use a combination of the second and third version by utilizing the all in one PCV/check valve housing rather than the separate PCV and check valve as found on the second version but retain the additional breather hose and metal breather pipe.

    Hope this has been helpful for you.

    Cheers!
    '03 A4 5-MT Motoza tuned Frankenturbo F21L With full supporting mods. Sold (and missed dearly).
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  16. #16
    Veteran Member Four Rings Turbavanttro's Avatar
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    Thanks alot, you confirmed some of what I suspected about the issues with the early setup. I'll definitely take your advice. Thanks for sharing the knowledge/wisdom!
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    Veteran Member Four Rings
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    Quote Originally Posted by old guy View Post
    If you intend to retain the block breathing system (which I think is a good idea) my recommendation would be to use the late 2003 set-up.
    From a practical matter, if the majority of my driving is highway and even my "short drives" are typical 10+ miles, would you say this recommendation carries less weight? I'll be tearing things apart back there soon and just trying to come up with a plan. I hate the idea of adding more hoses but could certainly do so if there's a reason.

    On that note, I know one of the additions is that ~3/8" line which is T'd in at the back of the valve cover, just forward of that 3-way elbow hose (the one that there was a recall for). Has anyone added that fitting to an early (AMB) engine? Thinking a 1/4" NPT hole could be drilled and tapped into the valve cover somewhere for a simple 3/8" barbed fitting.
    Brad 2002 Quattro 1.8T w/ 2.8 B5 5-speed

  18. #18
    Veteran Member Four Rings old guy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DPDISXR4Ti View Post
    From a practical matter, if the majority of my driving is highway and even my "short drives" are typical 10+ miles, would you say this recommendation carries less weight? I'll be tearing things apart back there soon and just trying to come up with a plan. I hate the idea of adding more hoses but could certainly do so if there's a reason.
    Considering your driving style I would just keep the OEM set up that you currently have ('02) and make sure all the components are in good condition. If you have never replaced your SJP I would recommend doing so just as a preventive measure. If you maintain a 5k OCI and use the big filter I don't think adding the additional breather line will really make much of a difference. If you did a lot of stop and go short trips it would be worth considering.
    '03 A4 5-MT Motoza tuned Frankenturbo F21L With full supporting mods. Sold (and missed dearly).
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  19. #19
    Veteran Member Four Rings
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    Quote Originally Posted by old guy View Post
    Considering your driving style I would just keep the OEM set up that you currently have ('02) and make sure all the components are in good condition. If you have never replaced your SJP I would recommend doing so just as a preventive measure. If you maintain a 5k OCI and use the big filter I don't think adding the additional breather line will really make much of a difference. If you did a lot of stop and go short trips it would be worth considering.
    Thanks for confirming my thinking was reasonable. Ironically enough, I went junkyarding a couple weeks ago and came across a '01 Passat which had recently been serviced - among other things, I came home with a Aug 2010 stamped SJP. It'll get a ring of plastic epoxy applied around the joint before installation.
    Brad 2002 Quattro 1.8T w/ 2.8 B5 5-speed

  20. #20
    Established Member Two Rings
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    very good summary Old Guy. My downpipe to the oil cooler has broken off perhaps due to a compbination of heat and a poor selection of plastic by Audi. I get a kind of a wheezy clunk when the engine is turned off, which seems to come from that area - do you think this is related? I will be cleaning out the vacuum lines individually - the PCV had some dried up oil in it as did a few of the other breather lines, which i have now removed, cleaned and refitted. Its the small ones that concern me more tbh. Advice welcome on the clunk though.

  21. #21
    Veteran Member Four Rings old guy's Avatar
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    The "wheezy" sound is probably coming from the open breather line. I can only guess at the clunking sound. Maybe take a close look at your drivers side motor mount for any signs of leakage. It might need replacing. I just ordered new motor mounts yesterday since I noticed that my riders side mount was starting to ooze purple goo.
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  22. #22
    Established Member Two Rings
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    All I can say is

    WOW!!!
    Oldguy you are a true asset to our forums
    I have been batteling to understand how the system works and what each bit is and does!
    With my lack of knowledge I was thinking of doing the system removal (as we have few emissions laws in SA) and they all over the engine bay looking a tad untidy!

    Now! I have better understanding and respect for the system! I like it!

    Many thanks oldguy!!!!!
    Will be looking forward the the pic and explanation version! I'm gonna print it out and put it in my VAgcom file!!!

    I do thank Old Guy again!
    Many thanks for a great explanation
    (I have a late 03 BFB motor) :)

  23. #23
    Established Member Two Rings TheSilverF0x's Avatar
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    Bookmarked.

    Old guy for President!

    Once again, thanks old guy for this fantastic thread. Your a great asset to Audizine!
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  24. #24
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    Just pulled my motor last week to do some work, now looking at all of this. I have a bunch of new check vlvs as per a4darkness thread now looking at adding sup as a replace item. Does the PRV fail often to warrant replacing? Currently have the 034 breather kit for my motor, looks very good quality. When I started removing all the bits the connection to to the block vent at the oil filter basically crumbled on me and bits of it fell into the hole. Had to use my shop vac to get them out, but kind of worried there's still bits in there, need to figure a way to clean it out properly, any suggestions?

    I'm going to change the N75 also should I do the N249 as well? Don't see any harm really.

    Aside from that, OG this is a great thread thanks for this
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  25. #25
    Veteran Member Four Rings boy412's Avatar
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    Why isn't this stickied yet?
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  26. #26
    Veteran Member Four Rings SlickFix's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by boy412 View Post
    Why isn't this stickied yet?
    I was wondering the same thing.

    I was also wondering if oldguy would consider making a similar post for the 3.0 engine.
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  27. #27
    Senior Member Three Rings
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    Quote Originally Posted by SlickFix View Post
    I was wondering the same thing.

    I was also wondering if oldguy would consider making a similar post for the 3.0 engine.
    This thread and the engine strengthening thread should both be stickied. Commonly needed resources should be easy to find and all that...

  28. #28
    Veteran Member Four Rings jpulll's Avatar
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    Question on SJP removal.
    I have the 03 version where breather is connected through IM instead of SJP. I heard the only downside to removing this SJP is the inability to brake while in boost. Is this true? What are other downsides to this removal??
    Following Walky's removal diagrams, my plans are to "T" off the breather to the IM and the "F" hose that goes to vacuum reservoir. The connection to the "F" hose will have a check valve.
    The brake booster is then connected straight to the IM.
    All this talk of check valves and there purpose to block off boost to certain components. Walky's diagram does not show a check valve but i heard you don't want boost heading that way. Is a check valve needed for that line?
    I have my 034 breather kit coming which will remove the extra breather line from the valve cover, which in this thread i heard isn't a good idea but i change my oil and filter every 3-5k miles.
    I plan to run a catch can, that's sort of why i want to free up room in order to make space for the extra thick lines that I'm gonna have to route through. I want to do this right and know what to do before i jump in and rip this SJP out. Spring is coming soon!
    Plans are to go bigger turbo so would this be a way to go? I live in a place where SAI and EVAP are needed so those will be stock retained.

  29. #29
    Veteran Member Four Rings diagnosticator's Avatar
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    What specific result/s are you intending to achieve by removing the SJP? That is, you have not clearly made the case for justification for removing the SJP in your post.

    It is not true that there will be no brake power assist, when the intake manifold absolute pressure is higher than ambient air pressure, while boosted. However, there will be limited power assist available. The SJP also is connected to the vacuum reservoir. If the SJP vacuum source is removed, the vac reservoir can become depleted, with boost pressure in the intake manifold, resulting in failure of the DV to operate properly as controlled by the ECU, via N112.
    Last edited by diagnosticator; 03-07-2015 at 05:33 PM.
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  30. #30
    Veteran Member Four Rings jpulll's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by diagnosticator View Post
    What specific result/s are you intending to achieve by removing the SJP? That is, you have not clearly made the case for justification for removing the SJP in your post.

    It is not true that there will be no brake power assist, when the intake manifold absolute pressure is higher than ambient air pressure, while boosted. However, there will be limited power assist available. The SJP also is connected to the vacuum reservoir. If the SJP vacuum source is removed, the vac reservoir can become depleted, with boost pressure in the intake manifold, resulting in failure of the DV to operate properly as controlled by the ECU, via N112.
    Thanks for the reply diagnosticator,
    By achieve do you mean what the plan is? Really the plan is to remove for less points of failure and more room but still retaining some proper function of the components. I want to make room for the catch can that will be installed. I plan on doing the DV bypass loop. How will this go keeping in mind what you said above- "If the SJP vacuum source is removed, the vac reservoir can become depleted, with boost pressure in the intake manifold, resulting in failure of the DV to operate properly as controlled by the ECU, via N112"

    Ohio, like i said above, has emission rules and i need to keep SAI and EVAP. I plan on keeping the "F" hose that connects to the vacuum reservoir. Is there a way to still make everything work without causing problems? Would i have to connect some hoses differently than what is stated in these DIY's?

    I still feel like there are failure points within these DIY check valve removal's and i think further clarification needs to be made for those who only plan on removing a couple components. For instance only modifying the SJP system. The early AEB engines with manual trans i heard did not even have the SJP. So somehow they made things work.

  31. #31
    Veteran Member Four Rings jpulll's Avatar
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    Further rethinking my intentions, I really like how simple the AEB engine is. http://i142.photobucket.com/albums/r...elb/aebvac.gif
    Im sure the answer to my question is going to be impossible seeing as how I have emission regulations. Is there a way to delete the "F" hose and still have the SAI pump and combi valve still do its job with readiness monitors? I understand the "F" hose gives the vacuum source for the combi valve so thats kinda why it seems like a bust. BUT would there could there be a way to connect the combi valve to the N112 valve and then to the manifold with a check valve. You don't really boost your car up for the first 30 sec of running. Im just thinking in terms of you still have the readiness check and if the 02 sensor doesn't read the increase in air then it would fail readiness. Making sense at all? This is all keeping in mind the SJP removal and DV bypass.

  32. #32
    Veteran Member Four Rings diagnosticator's Avatar
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    I don't see how removing the SJP would help installing a catch can. A separator unit for the oily aerosols and water vapor in the crankcase blow by gasses to be controlled and vented, would need to be mounted somewhere on the firewall anyway, it won't fit near the SJP location even with the SJP removed.
    Considering all of the problems created by modifying the plumbing, removing functional components, does not provide any practical benefit regarding maintaining proper functioning of the crankcase ventilation system, and the correct operation of the vacuum operated devices required. The reason removing some or all of the vacuum related plumbing and crankcase ventilation system, is really because those owners did not understand how the system works, and did not appreciate the reasons the factory designed the systems the way it is, so instead of maintaining the system properly, ignorance prevailed and the systems were simply ripped out without realizing the negative consequences.

    Bypassing the N112 for the DV control by ECU, eliminates ECU control of the DV so the depletion of the reservoir is not an issue if that is done. The OE system for DV control provides the capability of the ECU to open the DV even if there is boost pressure in the intake manifold. This is done under certain running conditions to reduce pumping losses and improve fuel economy, and as a last resort way to reduce boost over pressure if the waste gate malfunctions. Connecting the DV control to the intake manifold directly, can improve DV response during gear shifts. Any actual perceived response improvement is subtle at best. By using a larger hose ID to replace the original sized hose and using the stock DV control hose connections with the N112 included, will provide the same increased responsiveness that the direct connection of the control hose provides. A substitute N112 solenoid valve with a larger flow port size to compliment larger ID control hose size would be the best setup, for a stock DV control N112 function with minimum response delay. The OE system configuration and functional tasks the system is provided to perform are not arbitrary or optional. The system is necessary as provided to accomplish the functional aspects involved, not just as an unnecessary complication and expense to include because the factory engineers enjoyed designing the system.
    The OE crankcase ventilation system can be improved, instead of defeated, by using a MANN ProVent crankcase pressure regulator/oily aerosol and water vapor filter trap, instead of a "catch can", and keeping the vent connected to the turbo intake pipe, instead of dumping crankcase blow-by to outside air.
    Last edited by diagnosticator; 03-07-2015 at 11:01 PM.
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  33. #33
    Veteran Member Four Rings old guy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jpulll View Post
    Im sure the answer to my question is going to be impossible seeing as how I have emission regulations. Is there a way to delete the "F" hose and still have the SAI pump and combi valve still do its job with readiness monitors? I understand the "F" hose gives the vacuum source for the combi valve so thats kinda why it seems like a bust. BUT would there could there be a way to connect the combi valve to the N112 valve and then to the manifold with a check valve. You don't really boost your car up for the first 30 sec of running. Im just thinking in terms of you still have the readiness check and if the 02 sensor doesn't read the increase in air then it would fail readiness. Making sense at all? This is all keeping in mind the SJP removal and DV bypass.
    First I will make my standard comment. There is no reason to delete all that "stuff". If it's functioning properly your engine will be healthier by having it intact. However with that being said you can remove the SJP without any ill effects other than slightly reduced vacuum assist when braking. Be sure to run a check valve between the intake manifold and brake booster.

    The purpose of the vacuum canister is to have a readily available vacuum source for both the N112 solenoid (SAI) and the N249 solenoid (DV). If you bypass the N249 you will still probably need the vacuum canister for the N112 to function properly. Here's why:

    On a cold start fast idle the intake cam gets advanced by 22° and the initial ignition timing gets retarded to around 5° after top dead center. This results in a loss of vacuum at the intake manifold to around 10 in-Hg. Without the additional vacuum provided by the canister there may not be enough to effectively open the combi valve. What you will need is a line from the intake manifold protected by a check valve. After the check valve you will need a "T" connection with one leg going to the vacuum canister and the other leg to the N112. The check valve holds the vacuum after the engine is turned off and the stored vacuum will be available to operate the N112/combi valve during a cold start.

  34. #34
    Veteran Member Four Rings jpulll's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by diagnosticator View Post
    The OE crankcase ventilation system can be improved, instead of defeated, by using a MANN ProVent crankcase pressure regulator/oily aerosol and water vapor filter trap, instead of a "catch can", and keeping the vent connected to the turbo intake pipe, instead of dumping crankcase blow-by to outside air.
    Why would it have a return line to the sump? I thought the whole point was to catch the dirty oil that goes through breather system and not run that through your car again. I want a device that will catch the shit and then i can drain it in my dirty oil container to be recycled at autozone. Otherwise i really like the design. Pretty much a second oil filter instead of the 4 metal filters in the 42 design CC. I can't picture how the '42' filters work....

    EDIT: for a better understanding of this Mann provent. Is it just like every other catch can in a sense that you can plug the return line and drain when needed OR will it start to fill up over the filter causing the filter to be no good so the return line to the sump is necessary? I guess ill give the blueprints a quick run-over to see if there is containment for excess oil
    Last edited by jpulll; 03-08-2015 at 09:33 AM.

  35. #35
    Veteran Member Four Rings jpulll's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by old guy View Post
    First I will make my standard comment. There is no reason to delete all that "stuff". If it's functioning properly your engine will be healthier by having it intact. However with that being said you can remove the SJP without any ill effects other than slightly reduced vacuum assist when braking. Be sure to run a check valve between the intake manifold and brake booster.

    The purpose of the vacuum canister is to have a readily available vacuum source for both the N112 solenoid (SAI) and the N249 solenoid (DV). If you bypass the N249 you will still probably need the vacuum canister for the N112 to function properly. Here's why:

    On a cold start fast idle the intake cam gets advanced by 22° and the initial ignition timing gets retarded to around 5° after top dead center. This results in a loss of vacuum at the intake manifold to around 10 in-Hg. Without the additional vacuum provided by the canister there may not be enough to effectively open the combi valve. What you will need is a line from the intake manifold protected by a check valve. After the check valve you will need a "T" connection with one leg going to the vacuum canister and the other leg to the N112. The check valve holds the vacuum after the engine is turned off and the stored vacuum will be available to operate the N112/combi valve during a cold start.
    If i understand you correctly you agreed with my statement-
    "would there could there be a way to connect the combi valve to the N112 valve and then to the manifold with a check valve to retain proper function of combi valve and hence readiness monitors."
    BUT added that i needed to have the vacuum canister to provide enough vacuum to open the combi valve because the manifold alone will not be able to open it up on a cold start. Thats where the T comes in between the manifold, N112, and V. canister. El correcto? Lol

  36. #36
    Veteran Member Four Rings old guy's Avatar
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    El correcto. Just make sure to put the check valve before the "T" so there is a direct line connection between the N112 and canister.

  37. #37
    Veteran Member Four Rings jpulll's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by old guy View Post
    El correcto. Just make sure to put the check valve before the "T" so there is a direct line connection between the N112 and canister.
    Roger that. Good knowledge to have. Thank you sir!

  38. #38
    Veteran Member Four Rings jpulll's Avatar
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    I want to update and say i connected the N112 straight to the manifold with a check valve. 4mm hosing leading to N112, 1/4" hosing leading to the manifold. Car starts like it has before and the cold start fast idle we were discussing is perfectly normal. Starts with the normal 12 inHg then 20 seconds later rests at the norm 20-22 inHg.
    Old Guy i want to thank you for thinking outside the box with a more mechanical aspect, but i went over to the vwvortex and have been speaking with groggory and a lot of guys have been connecting straight to the intake for years with no issues so i figured id at least give it a shot and after weeks of driving around like this i can say everything is running perfect...except that f**kn cracked breather "L" hose lol

  39. #39
    Veteran Member Four Rings
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    Quote Originally Posted by old guy View Post
    The early system found on the '02 and early '03 models actually had a few less hoses. This set up routed the PCV line from the lower block breather through the SJP for the brake booster vacuum amplification. This exposed the SJP to all of the hydrocarbon vapors and blow-by gasses which could be detrimental to the efficiency and longevity of the SJP. The later two versions got around this problem by adding a fresh air supply from the TIP to the SJP.
    On the late '03 I just worked on, I didn't touch the plumbing for the SJP, so the factory configuration for the SJP was left in place when installing the 034 PCV & line replacement. I assume there's no significant issue leaving that in place but removing the breather line from the PRV to PCV as you mention below...

    Quote Originally Posted by old guy View Post
    Another difference between the first version and the later versions was an additional breather from the PRV connection to the downstream side of the PCV. In the second and third version it connects directly to the PCV housing. The second version does it with an in line check valve and a simple nipple off the PCV
    Brad 2002 Quattro 1.8T w/ 2.8 B5 5-speed

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