Tiptronic - 2nd to 3rd gear shift rough

[Joesturbo]

In my B6 Avant - when changing gears (in auto) the 2nd to 3rd gear shift stumbles or feels like the motor is moving (not smooth).
This mainly only happens when under steady acceleration - or atleast that is when I notice it.


My question is this:

Has anyone had this issue and what fixed the problem - my guess?
A. Transmission mount / motor mount
B. Need to flush the transmission

Thanks in advance!

[02won.eiht]

in experiencing the same problem..i was told it might be the trans fluid needed to get flushed..but that wasnt it..i kno that much/=

[walky_talky20]

Can you explain this feeling further?

I have a tip as well and notice that the 2-3 shift feels kind of lousy in "D". Specifically, the lock-up of the torque converter happens soon after the shift and is kind of abrupt. The lock-up is quite noticeable almost every time, but is worse when it is cold. It almost feels like the car shifts twice in succession. First one soft, and the next one more firm. Very annoying. Most noticeable under moderate, steady accleration. Driving super hard or super soft makes it shift differently. My fix is to drive it in Tip mode. In that mode the logic for locking the torque converter seems to be quite different such that it locks even sooner after the shift and is much less noticeable. Shifting in every gear just feels better and more together. Much more enjoyable, especially with a chip.

Do you find the problem is less or gone in Tip mode?

[Joesturbo]

Yes of course - and you seem to have the EXACT same issue as I!!!

It almost feels like the car shifts twice in succession. First one soft, and the next one more firm. EXACTLY WHAT I EXPERIENCE IN THE SHIFT FROM 2nd to 3rd.

Most noticeable under moderate, steady accleration. Same for me

Driving super hard or super soft makes it shift differently. My fix is to drive it in Tip mode. In that mode the logic for locking the torque converter seems to be quite different such that it locks even sooner after the shift and is much less noticeable. Shifting in every gear just feels better and more together. Much more enjoyable, especially with a chip.

Do you find the problem is less or gone in Tip mode? SAME FOR ME - TIP mode shifts like a dream

Now I know I am not crazy.. :) - now to figure out what is wrong with her: she only has 63K on her

Maybe Diagnosticator has seen this? Someonw put up the Diagnosticator signal!

[Joesturbo]

One other thing to add - it might be happening in the other gears - but if it does I can never detect it... ALLWAYS in D, steady acceleration and from 2nd to 3rd.

Just an odd problem... and annoying - I don't need to drop 5K on a tranny right now - or a transmission for my wifes car :)

[vinny.dtw]

Haha, shameless plug, but in the event you gentleman need a Tiptronic replacement, I have mine available.

But with the mileage that I have put on my tiptronic previously, I never had rough shifts, but that can be partially due to new fluid changes and the TIP chip that I had.

[[email protected]]

That extra little 'shift' you guys are feeling is the torque converter locking...perfectly normal.

[SleeperAvant]

Yeah. The only thing I don't like is when shifting into reverse when the car is cold, it just kinda slams into R. And sometimes when I'm coming to a stop and I'm in tip mode I downshift into 1 it slams into 1, but rarely it does this.

[diplomat128]

omfg I feel that too. I thought i was crazy. It almost feels like there is an extra gear shift between 2nd and 3rd. It feels much better now that I know it's the torque converter locking...

sorry for my ignorance, but why does the torque converter locks exactly? And why between 2nd and 3rd?

[AudiA4Turbo22]

this is normal, when you start feeling the shifts and feel that your car shifts like a muscle car then u have a problem. The extra shift as stated above is the T/C locking up and it is completely normal. The programming for these transmissions sucks from the factory so this is the end result.

[walky_talky20]

I've seen this "noticeable TC lockup from 2-3" in other Audi's as well. C5 A6 and B5 2.8, etc. Even a C4 100. I still think my car is a little worse than most, but it is normal. The fact that it shifts perfect in Tip mode backs up what AudiA4Turbo22 said: it is just lousy programming of the TC lockup in that gear.

I have become very adept at noticing the lockup and I can say that this lousy lock-up timing *does* happen in other gears. I notice it in the 1-2 shift and 3-4 shift as well, though not nearly as much and not nearly as often. I have become quite satisfied with Tiptronic mode. It seems to keep the Torque Converter locked sooner and much more often. This eliminates a lot of the slushbox, rubber band feeling of the automatic. This is by design to make Tip mode feel more "sporty". Locking the ratio makes it feel a *little* more like a manual.

I think a lot of these complaints are due to the fact that this tranny locks the converter in 2,3,4,and 5. Most transmissions only lock-up in the last gear or the last 2 gears. Locking in every gear except 1st gives us a much more "busy" tranny with the ratio changing a bit more than other cars. All of this, I presume, is to enable the Tiptronic mode which relies on this lockup for its "sporty" feel.

Lately I've noticed another anomaly, this time in relation to the TIP mode. In 3rd gear, slowing for the corner and I don't downshift to 2, just leave it be. With the revs going down to around 1200 or lower, when i let off the brake and hit the gas the TC is unlocked. The revs go way up and then the TC locks very abruptly, almost slamming in. I notice this *almost* every time I'm in tip and slow for a corner, then get back on the gas aggressively. The revs "flare" then the TC locks in. Also seems like lousy programming to me. I'd much rather it downshift to 2nd, then merely unlock the converter and re-lock under acceleration. Anybody else notice this?

[Joesturbo]

Lately I've noticed another anomaly, this time in relation to the TIP mode. In 3rd gear, slowing for the corner and I don't downshift to 2, just leave it be. With the revs going down to around 1200 or lower, when i let off the brake and hit the gas the TC is unlocked. The revs go way up and then the TC locks very abruptly, almost slamming in. I notice this *almost* every time I'm in tip and slow for a corner, then get back on the gas aggressively. The revs "flare" then the TC locks in. Also seems like lousy programming to me. I'd much rather it downshift to 2nd, then merely unlock the converter and re-lock under acceleration. Anybody else notice this?

Fortunatly - or unfortunatly - I do not seem to have this issue... ALSO - Update - I noticed one of my tires was low... Checked it and for sure it was. Also checked the others - Usually run about 32PSI with my Pilots - pumped them all up and it seems this issue is gone. Shifts like a champ. So I wonder if there was just enough drag causing the transmission / sensors to not allow the transmission to shift properly. The one tire was down to 25PSI so almost 10lbs off.

THANKS EVERYONE for the input!

[diagnosticator]

The TC locks up after the 1>2 shift, not the 2>3 shift, in D. In Tip mode, the TC stays locked as much as possible, where as in D, the TC has some programmed slip at certain times.

If any of you who are having issues with the shift quality, and have not changed the AFT and filter, do that as soon as possible. It will take two drain and refills to remove most of the old fluid for new. Don't have the trans "flushed", just drain and remove pan, replace filter then refill. Briefy start the engine for 3>4 seconds, several times, to get as much old fluid out of the trans while draining. 7 to 8 liters of new fluid will be needed for refill, and a VAG-COM. I also recommend using only Pentosin ATF-1 100% synthetic trans fluid. My trans shifts a lot better with the ATF-1 compared to the OEM fluid. The AFT-1 is also on the ZF approved fluids list. After changing the fluid the first/second time, just drain and refill at ~40K miles maintenance intervals.

[AudiA4Turbo22]

The TC locks up after the 1>2 shift, not the 2>3 shift, in D. In Tip mode, the TC stays locked as much as possible, where as in D, the TC has some programmed slip at certain times.

If any of you who are having issues with the shift quality, and have not changed the AFT and filter, do that as soon as possible. It will take two drain and refills to remove most of the old fluid for new. Don't have the trans "flushed", just drain and remove pan, replace filter then refill. Briefy start the engine for 3>4 seconds, several times, to get as much old fluid out of the trans while draining. 7 to 8 liters of new fluid will be needed for refill, and a VAG-COM. I also recommend using only Pentosin ATF-1 100% synthetic trans fluid. My trans shifts a lot better with the ATF-1 compared to the OEM fluid. The AFT-1 is also on the ZF approved fluids list. After changing the fluid the first/second time, just drain and refill at ~40K miles maintenance intervals.

exactly what I use Pentosin.

[Joesturbo]

Don't have the trans "flushed"

My Wife says I am just like a rock - and you may too - but why not allow the "machine" to do the work for you? I thought the idea was to get all of the fluid out of the TC and T-cooler? I have a local company which has a BG unit and they use BG products... any issues wiith that?

thanks,
Joe

[Joesturbo]

bump cuz she wuz at da bottom...

[jackyaudi]

I been driving in Tip Tronic mode for almost a year now, but after reading the thread I went ahead and tried the car under D.

Hard acceleration under "D", racing style: No issues, everything smooth from 1 > 2 > 3 > 4

Normal driving under "D", below 3000 RPM: No issues, 1 > 2 > 3 > 4. There was some weird RPM drop from 2nd to 3rd gear, I believe its due to the programming of the tranny, but it was still smooth no matter how you look at it.

[Joesturbo]

There was some weird RPM drop from 2nd to 3rd gear, I believe its due to the programming of the tranny, but it was still smooth no matter how you look at it.

This is exactly what I get - it is smoooth for sure - and did not know the torque converter would lock like this - seems everyone is saying the same thing. Either we have many transmissions that are about to fail or it is normal...

[jackyaudi]

This is exactly what I get - it is smoooth for sure - and did not know the torque converter would lock like this - seems everyone is saying the same thing. Either we have many transmissions that are about to fail or it is normal...

I always drive in TipTronic mode, because the programming in D is lame, and inefficient. You could be stuck at 2000 RPM in 4th gear for a long time before it downshifts going up on a hill for example.

[diplomat128]

jackyaudi, that weird RPM drop is the torque converter locking from what I understand from this thread. It seems to be less noticeable in tip mode. I mostly drive in tip mode too.

I think D mode is gay I think it shifts at too high RPMs sometimes and sometimes it takes too long to downshift.

[[email protected]]

I think D mode is gay I think it shifts at too high RPMs sometimes and sometimes it takes too long to downshift.

Interesting. I've always experience D mode shifting too EARLY and bogging the car.

[Joesturbo]

Interesting. I've always experience D mode shifting too EARLY and bogging the car.

me 2 - 1st seems ok - but after that it goes into the other gears quickly... anyhow -can anyone answer my question about the flushing via machine? Why is it bad?

thanks,
Joe

[SleeperAvant]

Get your fluid changed. I just had mine done and it never has been smoother.

[Zaloo]

sorry to revive old thread - is it necessary to change fluid soon after the initial change? I ended up using about 7-8 quarts of fluid but have yet to go full throttle b/c Im paranoid to do just yet. On 3rd week or so since change and was curious if others changed out just the fluid to ensure all old fluid is out.

TIA

[Joesturbo]

I have not changed out my fluid= just keeping an eye on the shifting patern more. I think it might need to be done, but at 64K I will wait until I can tell if it is the transmission or not for sure.

[walky_talky20]

sorry to revive old thread - is it necessary to change fluid soon after the initial change? I ended up using about 7-8 quarts of fluid but have yet to go full throttle b/c Im paranoid to do just yet. On 3rd week or so since change and was curious if others changed out just the fluid to ensure all old fluid is out.

TIA

No you don't have to do anything more. The most common procedure is just a drain and refill (once), every 40-60k. That schedule is suitable for most normal driving. If you are dragging the car every weekend, that's a different story.

Tranny "flushes", or othewise "getting all the old fluid out" is somewhat controversial. There is a belief that older, worn clutches will start having problems if you take away there old used fluid and fill 100% with new fluid. It is less of a shock to the system if you just drain out what you can, and refill it. Also, there is a fear that a tranny flush machine will stir up all the collected crap inside the tranny and can clog passages, solenoids, etc. That is why many people prefer to simply drain and refill, if the tranny is working fine. There is less chance of creating any issues that way. No need to "stir the pot" as they say. Some mechanics even believe that after a certain point of neglect, the tranny fluid should *not* be serviced. If it has 300k miles, the fluid is black as tar, but it is still working (miraculously) it may be best to just leave it alone. That logic mostly applies to very extreme cases, though.

[NuVega]

Oh nice, I'm glad that the 2nd to 3rd transmission switch is somewhat normal. Something I don't like though is if I'm coming up on a downhill slope, and I need to reverse, the car would roll forward a bit and then jerk when I accelarate back. It still drives fine, and that rarely happens when I have reverse on a slope, but the jerk feels like the transmission is about to blow up.

[Bobby417919]

Yeah same here.. I have tip with 106k miles on it, and it seems like it shifts twice in second gear under a normal load. Drive it harder seems fine. So its kinda good to see this post and like someone said, we all going to be fine or end up with a shit load of messed up tranny post.. lol

[widgget]

i was wondering if my TQ converter is holding up so well because i do not drive the car in D or S at all (only in manual mode) so the TQ converter is not slipping / wearing out as fast?

[Joesturbo]

Ya no doubt.... just wanted to post this for historical perspective info...

I did change the front mount with the ECS poly mount and changed the fluid. Indeed it is MUCH smoooooother now. Still has a two stage transition but it is not nearly as hard. It actually feels like new again.

[Pole.K]

my 1.8t tip does this too, but it make a grinding? noise and its worse when the car is cold..
Also I have 136k on mine

[Kodymfk]

Any of you guys experience a binding issue in tip mode. I go up to a stop and it feels like it's in reverse and 1st and the same time? Doesn't move temporary.

[Kodymfk]

Also, I feel this "2 shift feeling" only when car is downshifting when coasting in tip and D mode.

[Naudilos]

Can you explain this feeling further?

I have a tip as well and notice that the 2-3 shift feels kind of lousy in "D". Specifically, the lock-up of the torque converter happens soon after the shift and is kind of abrupt. The lock-up is quite noticeable almost every time, but is worse when it is cold. It almost feels like the car shifts twice in succession. First one soft, and the next one more firm. Very annoying. Most noticeable under moderate, steady accleration. Driving super hard or super soft makes it shift differently. My fix is to drive it in Tip mode. In that mode the logic for locking the torque converter seems to be quite different such that it locks even sooner after the shift and is much less noticeable. Shifting in every gear just feels better and more together. Much more enjoyable, especially with a chip.

Do you find the problem is less or gone in Tip mode?

I've seen this "noticeable TC lockup from 2-3" in other Audi's as well. C5 A6 and B5 2.8, etc. Even a C4 100. I still think my car is a little worse than most, but it is normal. The fact that it shifts perfect in Tip mode backs up what AudiA4Turbo22 said: it is just lousy programming of the TC lockup in that gear.

I have become very adept at noticing the lockup and I can say that this lousy lock-up timing *does* happen in other gears. I notice it in the 1-2 shift and 3-4 shift as well, though not nearly as much and not nearly as often. I have become quite satisfied with Tiptronic mode. It seems to keep the Torque Converter locked sooner and much more often. This eliminates a lot of the slushbox, rubber band feeling of the automatic. This is by design to make Tip mode feel more "sporty". Locking the ratio makes it feel a *little* more like a manual.

I think a lot of these complaints are due to the fact that this tranny locks the converter in 2,3,4,and 5. Most transmissions only lock-up in the last gear or the last 2 gears. Locking in every gear except 1st gives us a much more "busy" tranny with the ratio changing a bit more than other cars. All of this, I presume, is to enable the Tiptronic mode which relies on this lockup for its "sporty" feel.

Lately I've noticed another anomaly, this time in relation to the TIP mode. In 3rd gear, slowing for the corner and I don't downshift to 2, just leave it be. With the revs going down to around 1200 or lower, when i let off the brake and hit the gas the TC is unlocked. The revs go way up and then the TC locks very abruptly, almost slamming in. I notice this *almost* every time I'm in tip and slow for a corner, then get back on the gas aggressively. The revs "flare" then the TC locks in. Also seems like lousy programming to me. I'd much rather it downshift to 2nd, then merely unlock the converter and re-lock under acceleration. Anybody else notice this?

Searched quite a bit looking for answers on what the cause of this harsh shift feeling in only 3rd gear could be. This thread and specifically these comments most accurately describe the symptoms that I just started to experience.

The car shifts with no issues from 1st to 2nd and from 2nd to 3rd. Once in third the car starts to accelerate with no issues then all of a sudden the revs jump up and then engages again in a pretty harsh manner. After this happens the car continues to accelerate with no issue while in 3rd gear and through out the rest of the gears.

Any suggestions on what the cause could be and/or what a possible solution could be to help alleviate this hard shift would be much appreciated.

[diagnosticator]

^^Change the ATF and filter. Pentosin ATF-1 is recommended fluid.

For anyone that has issues with how the stock trans shift strategy works in D, try recoding the TCU with the code: 001012, this coding value disables the "Dynamic Shift Program", adaptive shift strategy, and enables a fixed shift strategy instead of a variable shift point scheme. The stock coding is 001002.

[MacFady]

On a side note, if you live somewhere where it gets cold enough that the SAI pump doesn't run at start up for example, you might also notice the torque converter "bump" disappears for the first little bit you are driving. For myself, in the winter, I can drive off Granny like and not feel the torque converter bump until 5th gear, and not until things have warmed up a bit. Warmer temps, same usual 2nd and less frequently 3rd bump feeling returns.

[Naudilos]

^^Change the ATF and filter. Pentosin ATF-1 is recommended fluid.

For anyone that has issues with how the stock trans shift strategy works in D, try recoding the TCU with the code: 001012, this coding value disables the "Dynamic Shift Program", adaptive shift strategy, and enables a fixed shift strategy instead of a variable shift point scheme. The stock coding is 001002.

Thanks, checked the fluid it was low, very low. Made sure the trans was warm and filled it up. So far it has only made a hard shift while in third 2 times out of a quick 6 mile drive. Will do a complete fluid and filter change as soon as I can.

On a side note, if you live somewhere where it gets cold enough that the SAI pump doesn't run at start up for example, you might also notice the torque converter "bump" disappears for the first little bit you are driving. For myself, in the winter, I can drive off Granny like and not feel the torque converter bump until 5th gear, and not until things have warmed up a bit. Warmer temps, same usual 2nd and less frequently 3rd bump feeling returns.

Thanks, I'll keep this in mind next time I go for a drive. It does get fairly cold here during the winter, but it's only been about 30 degrees.