Car tuned AGAIN today! What to do with EGT"s ?

[Audi_S4]

Went back to the tuner today to get my car fixed!
Got there early and we went for a drive to diagnose the problem , a hard drive ! It was the hottest day EVER ! it was almost 40° outside!

- Read the codes,it only gave on (Cyl bank 2 EGT sensor ...) AGAIN
- Logged it with vagcom on the road , and we went back
- Problems were there but not on vagcom so car is being a biatch

The tuner said everything looked ok, but the car was boosting a little to high in the upper rpm's causing Exhaust temps to rise!

I then asked him what it could be , he said EGT's could cause the problem, So I asked him to code them out and he said it cannot be done. He had another K04 S4 on the parking lot that was there for over a week for the same problem , it ate 2 sets of EGT's in a couple of months! I then asked again why they cannot be coded out. He sayd he tried numerous times this week with that S4 and it kept going in Limp mode after xxx km again and again.
I then said all you guys do it and that you recommended it to me and that I don't want these shitty sensors in my car anymore! He said it can not be done with the our ECU's , maybe there was a diff in a US ECU vs Euro ECU he doesn't know but the other S4 kept going in limp mode after decoding the EGT's

Ok that sucked!

He then custom tuned the car on the road, he took my car and drove it for over an hour , came back and said it was all perfect now!
A little less timing in lower Rpm's and boost tapering down from 1.5bar to 1.4bar above 5500rpm and car ran fine now!

I then took off and after 5 minutes I got on it, and in 3d gear it had a kickup AGAIN I immediatly turned around and went back. Car gave NO fault codes!

So the only codes that keep coming back is EGT sensor Bank 2!

EGT Bank 1 was changed 15.000km ago
EGT bank 2 was changed couple weeks ago + O2s

He said the only thing that worked was fooling the EGT's by putting two broken ones in there, cut the wires, buy 2 new sensors and connect these and put them on the broken ones on top so they get hot but not REALLY hot so they will read a normal EGT value...

I said ok, thanks for all the help and went home!

I must say my car now goes ALMOST perfect and even in this heat it pulls very very hard and only has hickups/hesitations a few times when I do pulls... I just drove the itwhole day and it's very drivable now , but the EGT code keeps poppin up ...
Except for some minor hesitation/kickups once and awhile it runs like a dream, pulls harder then ever , idles perfect, drives mooth , doesn't smoke or do anything else that's not like I want it... But it doesn't run PERFECT and that's what I expect it to do

Now WTF do I do with the EGT's ???
I'm not planning on buying these shitty sensors 2 times a year and I have NOBODY that can code them out for me...

So WHO can tell me HOW to code these things out and what could be the reason this reputable tuner can not code out the EGT's ?

[AMC]

decode them

[Audi_S4]

how ???

[andream88]

EGTs are there for a reason.
They inform you when your exhaust temps go too high (they start reading past 945°).

I wouldn't delete them, i'd simply change tuner!

RS6 sensors can be installed in place of the S4 ones (ECU must be recoded). They start reading earlier, and are quite useful when you're tuning the car.

If i were you, i'd ask my money back.

Cheers
Andrea

[andream88]

xxxxxxxxx

[Audi_S4]

Hey Andrea, Thanks for the Reply, asking my money back is not an option... I don't have the time for all this hassle , it's been enough...

Only thing now is the EGT issue , I don't have time nor money at the moment to go to other tuners or drive 100s of km's to have these suckers coded out and my car runs great now it just sometimes has a little hickup...

[andream88]

well, coding them out by yourself at home is not an option....so i guess you'll have to try replacing them?

[CONTROL ONE]

Replace them at shokan.com. two will cost you 250 with a 6 month warranty

[The_Jerbel]

Inspect the EGT wiring.

[Audi_S4]

Drove it today and had some runs with a ZR1 and Z06 and car acted quite perfect (ZR1 is a MONSTER)
Even in this extreme heat! It seems to only have the problems once and awhile now!

But with the Airco on it seems to act weird alot more? Is this normal?

I drove 80km's to germany to fill her up with ARAL Ultimate 100oct :-) Haven't tested it yet cause it was to friggin hot to constantly punch her! Also brought a can with 20l extra with me!

I'm gonna wait for the weather to get a little cooler and see how that affects the car's performance!

I will also look in to the wiring of the EGT, But I haven't done anything on the exhaust and stuff myself, What do I look at and do I need a lift or...?

[AudiXS4X01]

But with the Airco on it seems to act weird alot more? Is this normal?

Im gonna assume Airco means air conditioner? If so, yes the car runs weaker with the air conditioner on. Every car is like that.

[Audi_S4]

Yeah but not weaker more like bad tuning symptoms? hesitations/struggles ... It seems most of my problems are down by 90% with the Airco turned off

[AudiXS4X01]

yea, it feels like a bad turbo lag when u let off the gas and when u punch it. Its almost like a knocking?

[Audi_S4]

It holds in sometimes when the airco is on. normally I NEVER drive with airco on but it's like tropical heat these days !

[s2the4]

It feels like it's tuned bad , it holds in sometimes when the airco is on. normally I NEVER drive with airco on but it's like tropical heat these days so I never tought it could be this...

I suggest getting a tune from MRC I hear only great things!

[Audi_S4]

I don't make money in my backyeard, MRC tune is more then I earn in a month... I have emailed them before...

[NOTORIOUS VR]

Sounds like the tuner you're going to is a little bit of a novice to me. Everything you're describing sounds like bad tuning to me (other then the CEL for the EGT probes or is that hit and miss?). Plus he doesn't even know how to tune out the EGT's completely?

[Audi_S4]

Look guys! This is THE tuner in BENELUX , I was recommended by EVERYONE to go there! He is constantly in magazines over here , has tuned VAG's with over 700hp, Big turbo ibiza's and Golf II with over 600hp. He es everything but a novice and that was the reason I went there!
He tunes Ibiza's and other 20V with MAF delete and GT35R's on 2bar boost,
I saw dyno graphs in the computer from a 578whp RS4 with GT Turbo's and a 487whp S4 B5 with RS4 cams, RS6 turbo's etcc...

so beats me why he cannot turn off the EGT's, but wait he can, but the S4 hit limp mode after xxx amount of miles and he does not know why he says!

I can't do nothing about this and the crappy thing is I live in belgium I have nowhere to go, I know not 1 person who has a stage III S4 in my country and not 1 tuner in my country who has ever tuned one...

You guys don't seem to get it like I state it ,the car runs PERFECT but just not ALL the time!
Sometimes it has a struggle/hesitation whatsoever and I changed almost the whole car, got it tuned twice and it still sometimes acts a little weird AND it trows an EGT code BUT I allready changed the EGT on that side + the O2's so I don't understand what the Prob is...

Vagcom logs showed nothing weird, only thing that seems to be faulty is something with the EGT's

[P0234]

Sounds like the tuner you're going to is a little bit of a novice to me. Everything you're describing sounds like bad tuning to me (other then the CEL for the EGT probes or is that hit and miss?). Plus he doesn't even know how to tune out the EGT's completely?

Exactly. Its easy to make tons of power from a tune. Its very hard to get good driveability all the time.

[NOTORIOUS VR]

You guys don't seem to get it like I state it ,the car runs PERFECT but just not ALL the time!
Sometimes it has a struggle/hesitation

No most people do get it. Again it sounds like a bad tune. Sounds like it runs great under power, but it's hit or miss under cruise/idle. Sounds like tuning to me.

Especially since you're telling us VAGCOM shows nothing weird. Means to me the car is "supposed to run" like it does.

What is the exact code you're getting for your EGT sensor?

A stage III (k04) tune should be almost wham bam thank you ma'm... it's so standard it's not even funny.

[Audi_S4]

Euhm no man! no issues under normal driving

It idles perfect and it drives smoother then stock! gasrespons is great, everything is great! BUT sometimes and I mean once in 5-6 pulls it has some hesitations...I drove around with some friends and it only did it 2 times in 15 minutes!
And only above 5500rpm

It was :

17867 - Exhaust Gas Temp Sensor 2 (G236): Implausible Signal
P1459 - 35-10 - - - Intermittent

[NOTORIOUS VR]

Well then maybe you should look into the EGT wiring from the ECU to the EGT plug. Especially since you've already replaced it recently.

[Audi_S4]

I did , don'tc know what I should see that's not okay, it's connected and all wires look new and ok ...

[NOTORIOUS VR]

Did you measure the wires with a volt meter? Check the resistance from end to end while moving the wires around. You might have an intermittent break somewhere.

[Audi_S4]

Since I'm a bit of a retard when it comes to Electrical things , how do I set the Volt meter and what am I suppose to be having for values when I measure the lines?

[NOTORIOUS VR]

Select the lowest Ohm setting and then measure one wire at a time end to end. You should have as close to 0 ohms as possible (the least resistance). If you look in the DIY section I've posted complete schematics for our cars that will help you determine the pin outs @ the ECU side.

[cos]

It seems that you have a problem with the exhaust temp ,because you say that it happens only after some hard pulls in the heat...so check the fuel lines, the quality of your fuel(it must be 99-100 octane, as you are in Europe)also check the degrees of the egt's you are reaching at the 5-6th pull.If you don't find anything go to your tuner and ask him to check the afr and the advance, if they are to high are not good for hard pulls in the heat...I hope you solve the problem

[Audi_S4]

@ Notorious Thanks man!

@ Cos: It's weird , it can do it the 3d , the 6th , the 9th pull, in 3d gear, or 5th gear... Since my new tune temps have not gone lower then 35° outside (at night over 25° with very very little oxygen in the air, we have a Tropical heat wave here at the moment!
We checked AFR's and stuff , boost was lowered from 1.55bar to 1.4 bar above 6k rpm to lower EGT temps and keep turbo's in operational function without turning them in to hairblowers. Tune is spot on, me and my friend watched every log and map they made for my car and it was all perfect with no spots of running to lean or too rich.

I have a full tank of ARAL 100octane that I got saturday, I'm now gonna wait till temps get below 25° and test with the higher octane and look wat she does!

[cos]

@ Notorious Thanks man!

@ Cos: It's weird , it can do it the 3d , the 6th , the 9th pull, in 3d gear, or 5th gear... Since my new tune temps have not gone lower then 35° outside (at night over 25° with very very little oxygen in the air, we have a Tropical heat wave here at the moment!
We checked AFR's and stuff , boost was lowered from 1.55bar to 1.4 bar above 6k rpm to lower EGT temps and keep turbo's in operational function without turning them in to hairblowers. Tune is spot on, me and my friend watched every log and map they made for my car and it was all perfect with no spots of running to lean or too rich.

I have a full tank of ARAL 100octane that I got saturday, I'm now gonna wait till temps get below 25° and test with the higher octane and look wat she does!

Also try to unplug the maf (so you could run richer mixture) and see if it does it again.Then If it does ,and you have vag-com log 031 to see the O2's and 112 to see the exhaust temp(egt's).I think if it's not a wiring think, then it's your fuel or tune causing high temps.

[Audi_S4]

Did all that weeks ago ,again and again

And No like i said, they logged the 031 and everything was perfect!
They logged it twice, before the new tune and after! and everything was perfect! My car is just acting like a bitch!

That Aside! I just looked at the DIY EGT replacement!
Bank 2 is the passanger side? the NEW EGT was placed on the ECU side , so the driver side of the car , I just called the mechanic and he said Bank 2 is the driver side !

[Militant-Grunt]

EGTs are there for a reason.
They inform you when your exhaust temps go too high (they start reading past 945°).

I wouldn't delete them, i'd simply change tuner!

RS6 sensors can be installed in place of the S4 ones (ECU must be recoded). They start reading earlier, and are quite useful when you're tuning the car.

If i were you, i'd ask my money back.

Cheers
Andrea

1.8t's don't use them, while they are helpful they are not necessary. I have them coded out on my car, your tuner should be able to do this if he is familiar with me7. Won't have to worry when a 400 dollar part goes bad.

[Audi_S4]

Tuner said I should put 2 bolts in the EGT holes and hang the EGT's next to the exhaust where they won't get +945°
They did it with another S4 this week and that car is now running perfect, it was eating EGT's for the last year and that with an OTS MTM tune

[Audi_S4]

UPDATE:

Very weird if you ask me...

I took the car out 1 hour ago! it rained here in the afternoon and temperature dropped to 22° outside ! I have full tank or 100octane so I tought let's see if this is better for the car...
I did like 25 pulls in ALL gears, I did a 2nd to flat out in 6th gear (160mph+) , then let off , chilled for 30 seconds and again ripped it from 2nd to 5th , chilled 2 minutes and so on ...Car is a monster! Damn

After this it was quite clear, car acted PERFECT in all gears in all RPM's for over 20 minutes of hard driving! I was excited!!!

Then I ran in to a friend ...
we pulled over and talked about 5-10 minutes and I let the car idle on the side of the road during this time.

Then I took off, pulled normal 1st-2nd and third for 500 meters , let off took a turn and smashed it in 2nd gear and BWWWWUUUP it held back again (hickup) and then went straight to redline and in third again a little little hesitation that I could feel ...


Do EGT's get hotter from idling ?
Or did my intake temp raise sky high from idling so long?

[Audi_S4]

Any idea on the last post?
gonna try again tonight , see what the car does !

[Espen W]

UPDATE:

Very weird if you ask me...

I took the car out 1 hour ago! it rained here in the afternoon and temperature dropped to 22° outside ! I have full tank or 100octane so I tought let's see if this is better for the car...
I did like 25 pulls in ALL gears, I did a 2nd to flat out in 6th gear (160mph+) , then let off , chilled for 30 seconds and again ripped it from 2nd to 5th , chilled 2 minutes and so on ...Car is a monster! Damn

After this it was quite clear, car acted PERFECT in all gears in all RPM's for over 20 minutes of hard driving! I was excited!!!

Then I ran in to a friend ...
we pulled over and talked about 5-10 minutes and I let the car idle on the side of the road during this time.

Then I took off, pulled normal 1st-2nd and third for 500 meters , let off took a turn and smashed it in 2nd gear and BWWWWUUUP it held back again (hickup) and then went straight to redline and in third again a little little hesitation that I could feel ...


Do EGT's get hotter from idling ?
Or did my intake temp raise sky high from idling so long?

No, EGT's will not increase while idling, but IAT's will.
Quickest way to drop IAT is to go WOT at low rpm and get some cooling airflow through the system without building boost.

[cos]

Now it is obvious...!You have high temps and an aggressive tune, if you don't want to change your map settings try using water/meth to keep temps down if you want to go flat out everytime, or

[Audi_S4]

The agressive part is obvious to me , damn that thing rippes thrue gears now! pfieuw, I've owned some fast cars and driven lot's of em but this thing is sck haha

Car makes 22PSI and drops to 20PSI after 6k rpm

How can my temps be high ? I have JHM FMIC and all the other needed hardware offcourse it's summer but the FMIC should have fixed that no?
Is it maybe cause I still have AWE cats that the hot air doesn't leave the exhaust soon enough so EGT's warm up with this tune?

[NOTORIOUS VR]

How can my temps be high ? I have JHM FMIC and all the other needed hardware offcourse it's summer but the FMIC should have fixed that no?
Is it maybe cause I still have AWE cats that the hot air doesn't leave the exhaust soon enough so EGT's warm up with this tune?

Heat soak from standing still, especially after doing a few hard pulls. It's horrible on our cars.

IC's don't do shit when you're standing still.

[Audi_S4]

With the IPP's the IAT's went to 70° very fast and whil driving in 22° they were around 55-60°

We measured with the FMIC now and when driving IAT is around 50° when it's 38° outside (ok I guess with such tropical heat)

But when standing still it rapidly rises to 70° ... is this normal?

Could it be that my Intake Temp Sensor is broken? were is this bitch located ? It has never been changed on the car , but my mechanic sais you have to take off the whole intake mani + Y pipe and stuff to get to it?

[NOTORIOUS VR]

When you stop the car, go outside and open the hood. Then you will understand why it rises so quickly. There's no space for cooling around the motor and it's such a tight package. Heat soak is something you just need to deal with.

The IAT sensor is under the intake manifold btw.