would you run single 500w rms sub or two 250w rms sub

[xccess]

I am just try to decide which route to go if I get sub for the s4

[Tea Mandy]

I personally would lean towards the single 500W sub. Reasons being that for straight output, it should be at least close to the two subs. But a 500W is likely a better series of subs that the 250's, and will just sound better. Also it will leave more room in your trunk and allow more room to get the ideal box for the sub. Certainly get a box made, and tell them they can make it as they need to to sound good and let them know what music you listen to.

[soundspeedstyle]

I like that deep bass tune my shit to 32hz thank you!

Single subs are the only way to go. Personally I'd sell the stuff and buy something a bit more powerful. I have bought n sold so many systems it's ridiculous I got pretty good first hand expierence with a lot of subs. My favorite is Fi BL. 32 hz 1000watt rms daily at 4 ohms to die for will use it till it dies than buy another :). I got a beast in my room, the BLs big brother BTL 4000 watt rms ;) might have to sel. Sadly. But I have had 1-2-3 sub set ups and a friend had 4 L5s another had 4 p3s. Tea Mandy made a good point that the 500w sub will be a better class of sub and you will be happier with it.

[sy0296]

For subs, it's all about surface area and excursion. A bigger cone will move more air. More cones will move more air. More excursion means it will move more air. If the sub handled 100000watts and has a tiny cone and tiny excursion, it will not reproduce bass very well.

Without knowing which subs you are referring to so it's hard to make a judgment. However, if both subs have the same cone surface area and excursion, 2 subs will always sounds 'bigger' than 1. Also, non-sense about 1 sub setups being the Best way to go. From either sq or spl prespective, that comment does not stand true...

If the question was 250w amp vs 500w amp then it would make a difference, however, for subs, handling power does not.

Find the right sub(s) for the type of music u listen to, then find the right power for it.

[J-b5]

aaaaaaaand the B5 is officially no longer cool.

[xccess]

For subs, it's all about surface area and excursion. A bigger cone will move more air. More cones will move more air. More excursion means it will move more air. If the sub handled 100000watts and has a tiny cone and tiny excursion, it will not reproduce bass very well.

Without knowing which subs you are referring to so it's hard to make a judgment. However, if both subs have the same cone surface area and excursion, 2 subs will always sounds 'bigger' than 1. Also, non-sense about 1 sub setups being the Best way to go. From either sq or spl prespective, that comment does not stand true...

If the question was 250w amp vs 500w amp then it would make a difference, however, for subs, handling power does not.

Find the right sub(s) for the type of music u listen to, then find the right power for it.

well it just in general talk, and I am not sure what to go for yet. I had alpine PDX 5 amp, factory rate at 75w x 4 + 300w rms for mono sub. but the box came and tested at 91w x 4 + 442w RMS for mono. I am thinking either go with two 8" JL Audio 8w3w or just single Alpine SWR-1023D

[veggiemonster]

aaaaaaaand the B5 is officially no longer cool.

and canadia haz nevar been ;)

i want a respectable sub in my s4, one 12" sub with about 500 rms and the amp set to like 1/2 power.

[alexverve]

from my old days experience - if u listen to rap/r&b type, get one 15". if u r into fast trance/dance music - 2 smaller ones are better (faster response time). in either case, u need good amp that will provide at least 75%RMS that woofer can handle. a lot depends on a box u r using. either of those two setups willl over-power rest of speakers in your car unless u got components with a separate amp. u will also need a good better and a capasitor (a must).
if i was ever upgrading stereo in my car, i would off run 2 sets of components for 4 doors with a good brand name amp at least 75x4 RMS and another one of those bridged into 2 channel to run 2 8" woofer in a rear deck instead of stock woofers. with at least one nice size capasitor for amp that runs subs and probably another one for speakers.

[Tiluleshpingen]

non makes my car heavier.. :) but thats just my opinon. stock Ftw

[Kruat]

I just installed a Kicker mono 500w rms sub amp to a single JL 10w6 in a custom built box. The rest is factory bose. Sounds very good, and is way more bass then I'll ever need. I went the route of one sub solely for the reason of keeping most of my trunk free. If you go single sub route, choose a high quality one, with a good strong amp pushing it. A good single sub, with a quality amp, will always out perform a mediocre cheap pair of subs and crappy amp.

But really, it's gonna be what sounds good to you, and how much your wallet can handle. Good luck.

[sy0296]

there's nothing wrong in wanting good music in your car. i've been in to home stereo and car stereo for as long as i can remember. if there's is one thing i might love more than cars, it would be music. for the better part of my life, i've been playing, writing, performing...I've always had decent systems in my cars

the JL w3 series is a very well designed sub, with many of the high tech bells and whistles from the w7 series but with out the price tag. i'm unfamiliar with that particular alpine sub so i can't comment, however i did run a alpine type-x 12" at one point and it was a good sub--granted not suited for me. as far as subs go, i always recommend image dynamics products to my friends. they are very efficient subs and very well rounded for various different types of music. the id and idq series are very musical. the idmax is simply an animal reproducing accurate bass while moving LOTS of air (bass you can feel). they also perform well in almost every type of enclosure. i've run them in sealed boxes and currently run 2 in a free air set up. many have also used them in ported enclosures with great results. the image dynamics team is also very active in helping customers with custom build...so can't go wrong there.

not saying other brands are not as good...i've just had good experience with them.

an old set up running the idmax



sub was powered by a old school xtant x1001 amp...brute power, sounded great, but very temperamental. the macs were actively driving a set of dynaudio gt240 in the front and passively driving a set of focal utopia drivers for fill only. everything was tune though the alpine h701 processor.

the older idmax subs were precision machines...meaning if you looked at them in the wrong way and something went out of alignment, the sub would pretty much self destruct. this was the price early adopter paid to for big excursion subs. the cones on these things literally moved 2+ inches in each direction. i loved that sub to death, but hated needing to repeated sending that damn thing back to image dynamics for warranty work every few months. i went exploring and tried several other set ups

oz audio (don't recall model)

alpine type x

and not pictured: hertz audio (don't recall model), eclipse titanium 12"

in the end, i made a full circle and went back to the idmax. the idmax is in it's fifth iteration now and the image dynamics team pretty much have it perfected. i've been running 2 of them free air in my show car for over a year now. they are powered by single zapco c2k 9.0 (mother of sq sub amps) and i constant beat on them. subs are still running strong.



after all that's being said, bass is just a part of the music. throwing a nice sub into your car is not gonna make it into a "system." you gotta balance out the highs, mid range, and mid bass as well.

completely rebuilt my doors to house these dynaudio 3-ways


also running 4 image dynamics id8 bass drivers for more mid bass up front.

power for the speakers come 4 genesis audio profile 4 ultra amps. good clean british power.

build a sound system is just as fun and as difficult as an endeavor as build a big horsepower motor. lemme know if you have any more questions regarding your project. i'll try to answer to the best of my ability

[Kruat]

from my old days experience - if u listen to rap/r&b type, get one 15". if u r into fast trance/dance music - 2 smaller ones are better (faster response time). in either case, u need good amp that will provide at least 75%RMS that woofer can handle. a lot depends on a box u r using. either of those two setups willl over-power rest of speakers in your car unless u got components with a separate amp. u will also need a good better and a capasitor (a must).
if i was ever upgrading stereo in my car, i would off run 2 sets of components for 4 doors with a good brand name amp at least 75x4 RMS and another one of those bridged into 2 channel to run 2 8" woofer in a rear deck instead of stock woofers. with at least one nice size capasitor for amp that runs subs and probably another one for speakers.

Proper wiring and a decent battery will fix the need of adding a Cap. I've ran several systems in my past cars, from 500w rms, to 1500w rms, and never needed a cap. Another reason for needing a Cap, is if your pushing your amps too hard. IE, you bought too small of a amp to push the subs. Just FYI.

[Tiluleshpingen]

aaaaaaaand the B5 is officially no longer cool.

aaaaaaand the hiden desires finaly explode in the open

[Tiluleshpingen]

there's nothing wrong in wanting good music in your car. i've been in to home stereo and car stereo for as long as i can remember. if there's is one thing i might love more than cars, it would be music. for the better part of my life, i've been playing, writing, performing...I've always had decent systems in my cars

the JL w3 series is a very well designed sub, with many of the high tech bells and whistles from the w7 series but with out the price tag. i'm unfamiliar with that particular alpine sub so i can't comment, however i did run a alpine type-x 12" at one point and it was a good sub--granted not suited for me. as far as subs go, i always recommend image dynamics products to my friends. they are very efficient subs and very well rounded for various different types of music. the id and idq series are very musical. the idmax is simply an animal reproducing accurate bass while moving LOTS of air (bass you can feel). they also perform well in almost every type of enclosure. i've run them in sealed boxes and currently run 2 in a free air set up. many have also used them in ported enclosures with great results. the image dynamics team is also very active in helping customers with custom build...so can't go wrong there.

not saying other brands are not as good...i've just had good experience with them.

an old set up running the idmax



sub was powered by a old school xtant x1001 amp...brute power, sounded great, but very temperamental. the macs were actively driving a set of dynaudio gt240 in the front and passively driving a set of focal utopia drivers for fill only. everything was tune though the alpine h701 processor.

the older idmax subs were precision machines...meaning if you looked at them in the wrong way and something went out of alignment, the sub would pretty much self destruct. this was the price early adopter paid to for big excursion subs. the cones on these things literally moved 2+ inches in each direction. i loved that sub to death, but hated needing to repeated sending that damn thing back to image dynamics for warranty work every few months. i went exploring and tried several other set ups

oz audio (don't recall model)

alpine type x

and not pictured: hertz audio (don't recall model), eclipse titanium 12"

in the end, i made a full circle and went back to the idmax. the idmax is in it's fifth iteration now and the image dynamics team pretty much have it perfected. i've been running 2 of them free air in my show car for over a year now. they are powered by single zapco c2k 9.0 (mother of sq sub amps) and i constant beat on them. subs are still running strong.



after all that's being said, bass is just a part of the music. throwing a nice sub into your car is not gonna make it into a "system." you gotta balance out the highs, mid range, and mid bass as well.

completely rebuilt my doors to house these dynaudio 3-ways


also running 4 image dynamics id8 bass drivers for more mid bass up front.

power for the speakers come 4 genesis audio profile 4 ultra amps. good clean british power.

build a sound system is just as fun and as difficult as an endeavor as build a big horsepower motor. lemme know if you have any more questions regarding your project. i'll try to answer to the best of my ability

aaahhhhh my eyesssss wtf is up with tv's in door cards ooohh my and in the passenger airbag... ohh man car has some nice sport seats but then it got ruined

[alexverve]

Proper wiring and a decent battery will fix the need of adding a Cap. I've ran several systems in my past cars, from 500w rms, to 1500w rms, and never needed a cap. Another reason for needing a Cap, is if your pushing your amps too hard. IE, you bought too small of a amp to push the subs. Just FYI.

i have not been into that "Scene" for the last 10 years, so i am behind on newest technology, but..... if u r into fast music - trance/techno, there is no way an amp going be able to accurately push 2 12" subs (and quality subs need a lot of power) @140 beats per minute for hours. u need good sub, good amp and proper enclosure as well as wiring and capasitor. i run a number of setups in my car back then, from Open Air, to Sealed, to ported and band-pass. all have plusses and minuses. but good wiring is not enough alone to get them run properly.

[sy0296]

true regarding not needing caps but your comment caps are only needed if you bought too small of an amp is not.

the alternator on the modern day car is more than capable of powering a decent sized system. even little civics come with 100+amp alternators now. even if you're running a few thousand watts in your car (right now i'm at a combined 7000+watts) however when you listen to music, the amps are probably using 10% of it's power to reproduce the music. the extra head room in the power is what give the system the dynamics it needs so when that big guitar solo comes flying in or the bassline starts doing something crazy, the power is there to handle it. even still, unless you are playing test tones, it's unlikely the amps are drawing even 50% of the current they need. also, modern amps are so much more efficient than the old school bricks we used to throw in our cars. those class-a, class-b, and class-a/b amps always weighed a ton a drew probably 10 times the amount of current to produce the same kinda of power these tiny amps can put out today. i guess some purists will argue that class-a amps sound better and tey don't build amps like they used to, but my philosophy is that clean power is clean power. an amp is supposed to sound "colorless." it's suppose to only reproduce the music the way it was recorded; not make it sound better or worse.

anyways, going way off topic now. caps are a thing the past. get good large gauge power cable for the amps and also upgrade the "big 3 cables" (alternator positive to battery positive, battery negative to chassis, and engine ground to chassis) and you'll be golden

[sy0296]

aaahhhhh my eyesssss wtf is up with tv's in door cards ooohh my and in the passenger airbag... ohh man car has some nice sport seats but then it got ruined

read: "show car"

and passenger airbag is actually a tablet pc.

anyways, i know it's not everyone's flavor. i love competing at car shows and these are little detials that get you the trophy.

if you notice, every single panel on the interior is either CF or cover in leather/alcantara. my entire door card is dry carbon and even with the LCD and speakers, it's lighter than stock.

[Tiluleshpingen]

read: "show car"

and passenger airbag is actually a tablet pc.

anyways, i know it's not everyone's flavor. i love competing at car shows and these are little detials that get you the trophy.

if you notice, every single panel on the interior is either CF or cover in leather/alcantara. my entire door card is dry carbon and even with the LCD and speakers, it's lighter than stock.

, i agree with that, but TV's on car should be a no no.. and the tablet pc in air bag.. sorry dude its just my opinion

[alexverve]

the extra head room in the power is what give the system the dynamics it needs so when that big guitar solo comes flying in or the bassline starts doing something crazy, the power is there to handle it.

that is what i ment. u need "extra" to get it done properly. Trance/Techno is very demanding in that sense. even though 90% of time it was not needed, just giving extra "help" for $100 was a good idea...

[Kruat]

i have not been into that "Scene" for the last 10 years, so i am behind on newest technology, but..... if u r into fast music - trance/techno, there is no way an amp going be able to accurately push 2 12" subs (and quality subs need a lot of power) @140 beats per minute for hours. u need good sub, good amp and proper enclosure as well as wiring and capasitor. i run a number of setups in my car back then, from Open Air, to Sealed, to ported and band-pass. all have plusses and minuses. but good wiring is not enough alone to get them run properly.

I didn't say just wiring is all that is needed. Dimming of your lights and such is caused by a overload on the electrical system. Now, most car electrical systems can handle most loads presented by adding amps. But, the problem is created when you take your 2 12's, say of a better quality, and try to push them with your cheap 300w jenson amp. That amp is not gonna be able to create enough power for the subs, in which case the amp will create an excess draw on the car's electrical system. Now, you take your same 2 12's, with something more along the lines of a higher end amp, with 500rms-1000rms, and that amp will have no trouble producing the needed power without creating a excess draw on the electrical system. Muisic selection doesn't make that much difference with the right setup. And both of the above examples can be greatly effected by the wiring. I've seen several setups where people try to use 10ga or smaller wire to power one or two amps. That small of a wire cannot provide enough current for the amps, which will cause dimming.

An another exmaple, I'm running 0ga in my truck to one JL 300.4 and one JL 500.1. No caps, and no dimming. The 500.1 is pushing two JL 10w3's in a sealed box. I listen to all types of music, including trance/dance. No dimming at all.

I think ideally, you want your amps running at somewhere between 60-80% power. If you have to run your gain all the way up, you probably have too small of an amp for the speakers.

But were getting sidetracked....

[soundspeedstyle]

For subs, it's all about surface area and excursion. A bigger cone will move more air. More cones will move more air. More excursion means it will move more air. If the sub handled 100000watts and has a tiny cone and tiny excursion, it will not reproduce bass very well.

Without knowing which subs you are referring to so it's hard to make a judgment. However, if both subs have the same cone surface area and excursion, 2 subs will always sounds 'bigger' than 1. Also, non-sense about 1 sub setups being the Best way to go. From either sq or spl prespective, that comment does not stand true...

If the question was 250w amp vs 500w amp then it would make a difference, however, for subs, handling power does not.

Find the right sub(s) for the type of music u listen to, then find the right power for it.

God car audio newbs.... Don't listen to this guy I have a 10" sub that would blow any set up you spent twice as much on with 4 subs. Surface area is bullcrap. I'm telling you don't get a cheap pair get a single man sub you won't be disapointed. I swapped two 12"L5s for one Fi BL12" the L5s surface area was insanely more and together had more power and flex(excursion). The BL put te L5s to shame terribly.

The box is VERY important to the SQ. Either make a box(it's ez) or have one made custom for your sub. I always reccomend the Fi brand again and again they never fail to impress me. Take a look at their sight and give them some good consideration.

If not look into incriminator audio(another great company). Check out caraudio.com/forums ask this there and get the real answer to your question that was the first forum I ever joined.

[J-b5]

and canadia haz nevar been ;)

i want a respectable sub in my s4, one 12" sub with about 500 rms and the amp set to like 1/2 power.

Nothing wrong with a decent stereo. But numbnuts that want 1000W crazyness obviously have yet to realize the permanent hearing loss they will experience as a result. They are the guys that roll into the local parking lot on friday nights with their plates rattling from the noise, hard park, crack open their trunk and bless us with "UNCE UNCE UNCE UNCE" for an hour.

Not cool, never will be.

SQL cars, and competition installer shop cars. Well thats an art form. Not one im interested in much anymore but at least they dont usually contribute to noise pollution on a daily basis.



Oh and take your canada cracks and shove them, or ill round up some angry Scotts and march down there like its 1812 again.

[Tiluleshpingen]

Nothing wrong with a decent stereo. But numbnuts that want 1000W crazyness obviously have yet to realize the permanent hearing loss they will experience as a result. They are the guys that roll into the local parking lot on friday nights with their plates rattling from the noise, hard park, crack open their trunk and bless us with "UNCE UNCE UNCE UNCE" for an hour.

Not cool, never will be.

SQL cars, and competition installer shop cars. Well thats an art form. Not one im interested in much anymore but at least they dont usually contribute to noise pollution on a daily basis.



Oh and take your canada cracks and shove them, or ill round up some angry Scotts and march down there like its 1812 again.

lmao let me take that UNCE x4 and raise you UNCE UNCE UNCE UNCE UNCE UNCE . get it yah. UNCE UNCE UNCE UNCE UNCE UNCE

[soundspeedstyle]

Caps are a waste of money. Spend that 100 are relocating the battery to the rear and x2 on the big 3. If you have any issues just upgrade your battery or alt. Or go with a kenetic HC600 it's equal to over 100 fraads or 50-100 caps and you can get the hc 600 for ~$50

also don't use bass boost it's horrible on everything. And research for actual rms, my IA40.1 rms is 900@ 4ohms 1800@2ohms and 4000@1ohm. Actual is 1300@4 2200@4 and 4400@1 and is .5ohm stable to 5100rms daily.

That amp is a power house and I just used it as an example but companys say they amps are a lot lower than actual for marketing reasons. Rockfordfosgste is the biggest misleader here. Friend had a t2000 w/ 2000 rms the actual tested came out over just Under 2900.

Light dining is caused from electrical draw>amp output from alt. It's simple your car only produces so many amps while the alternated is spinning if your system draws more amps then the alt puts out your lights will dim with the bass. Relocate the battery and upgrade it to a bigger one, or upgrade your alt. A new alt is the way I got it's just the right way to go. That doesn't mean u can get a high power alt with a tiny battery Nd you'll be fine. But get a bigger alt and a decent battery and you will be fine. I ran 750 off stock power supply in my 5 series BMW no dimming I did the big 3 and it was fine. Just do the big 3 N plug the system in then if it gives ya crap get a bigger battery and you will be fine 500 watts no worries ;) if u were going for 1000 I'd gve it a lil more thought.

Again take this to caraudio.com/forums full of great info

[soundspeedstyle]

It's called a bass knob. Have a 4000watts sub and cruise around listening to it like it's a 300-500 then some douche ricer pulls up rattling sounding like shit but thinking they are cool turn that lil knob up n pu them in their place.

As far as rattling it's called dyno mat :) it's a life saver

[J-b5]

If you cant see our your rearview, it too loud.

[J-b5]

It's called a bass knob. Have a 4000watts sub and cruise around listening to it like it's a 300-500 then some douche ricer pulls up rattling sounding like shit but thinking they are cool turn that lil knob up n pu them in their place.

As far as rattling it's called dyno mat :) it's a life saver

Thats what the two-step is for son.

[soundspeedstyle]

Haha agreed ^ but I enjoy bass so why not put their system to shame then two step on em?

And if it's too loud your too old! I can't even read the license plate info off the far INFRONT of me when the bass is boomin :P the btl would make it hard to breath just don't have anything to put it in I can't squeeze my 5cft box in my trunk :( lol

[J-b5]

Haha agreed ^ but I enjoy bass so why not put their system to shame then two step on em?

And if it's too loud your too old! I can't even read the license plate info off the far INFRONT of me when the bass is boomin :P the btl would make it hard to breath just don't have anything to put it in I can't squeeze my 5cft box in my trunk :( lol

Ah yes.. eye compression. I acheived that with a 200W amp and a 12" orion box... in my 20s.... Just doesnt do it for me anymore.

[Slave IV]

Single...but it really depends on all the factors (what sub, what kind of enclosure, what amp, what kind of sound are you looking for, etc...).
For the best in sound quality and imaging (which is what I like), I've found that the less speakers you have, the better. It's all about the installation and tuning but when done right, one set of components in the front with one sub (total of 5 separate drivers) with a nice amp running it all will sound better than any OEM system out there...

[xccess]

well too many questions and too many answer, all I want is just something more punch but no earth quake when I go down the road, and most important of all, it have to be light and room for the trunk. I was looking at two 6.5" or two 8" from JL Audio. but I also looking at Alpine swr-1023D sub. Like I said, it is not for car show or making earth quake, just something more punch. I will only run single ALpine PDX 5 amp that was test at 91w RMS x 4 + 442w RMS mono. Nothing too crazy

[Slave IV]

OK, it sounds like you will do perfectly fine with two free air subs mounted on your rear deck. Just take the deck speakers out and reinforce it to hold the subs instead. Going with smaller diameter subs like the ones you mentioned, it's usually better to go with two.
For another option, you could still go with a single sealed enclosure with a larger subwoofer and just make the box removable when you want to lighten the car (that's what I'm going to do..using a single 12" Image Dynamics Sub)

[soundspeedstyle]

Get a Rockford fosgate P3D2-12, another bonus about getting one sub is if you ever wanna upgrade your bass ya can buy another!

Check out caraudio.com/forums and search through the classifieds they got great deals there all the time.

[Audiophyle]

Wow there is a TON of misinformation getting thrown around in here like its factual. lol

Doubling of power generally equates to an increase of 3db, doubling of speakers also equates to an increase of 3db.
Cutting power in half will usually result in a loss of 3db, & loosing a sub will also result in a loss of 3db.
Essentially a single sub with 500w will have about the same output as dual subs with half the power.
See what I did there? Add a sub, halve the power 0 +3 -3 = 0 gain. Loose a sub, double the power 0 -3 +3 = 0 gain.
(Assuming equipment is directly comparable)

Running a single nice sub instead of two cheaper subs will get you about the same outcome, but take up a little less space. lol
Also keep in mind the enclosure is responsible for 80% of the subs bass output, so dont skimp on a box.

[xccess]

Wow there is a TON of misinformation getting thrown around in here like its factual. lol

Doubling of power generally equates to an increase of 3db, doubling of speakers also equates to an increase of 3db.
Cutting power in half will usually result in a loss of 3db, & loosing a sub will also result in a loss of 3db.
Essentially a single sub with 500w will have about the same output as dual subs with half the power.
See what I did there? Add a sub, halve the power 0 +3 -3 = 0 gain. Loose a sub, double the power 0 -3 +3 = 0 gain.
(Assuming equipment is directly comparable)

Running a single nice sub instead of two cheaper subs will get you about the same outcome, but take up a little less space. lol
Also keep in mind the enclosure is responsible for 80% of the subs bass output, so dont skimp on a box.

well I had a few option, but I think I will settle for single 10" alpine swr-1023d. I just need to find someone who can build me a custom .5 cube for the sub that fit nicely in the trunk

[jibberjive]

Wow, good to see some people who appreciate car audio as well.

I like that deep bass tune my shit to 32hz thank you!
My favorite is Fi BL.

I like to tune my daily systems to around 32hz as well. I had 3 12's in my previous jeep tuned to 28hz lol, it got low.



Fi BL and BTL are nice subs for sure, but way out of what this guy is looking for. I'm currently running an RE SX 15 (real similar to the Fi Q) tuned to 32hz (with a swappable competition port) in my Audi powered by 1600W RMS and really like it for a daily.

from my old days experience - if u listen to rap/r&b type, get one 15". if u r into fast trance/dance music - 2 smaller ones are better (faster response time). in either case, u need good amp that will provide at least 75%RMS that woofer can handle... u will also need a good better and a capasitor (a must).

No offense (honestly), but please nobody listen at all to what was quoted above. Some 15's have faster transient response (read: "tighter" bass) than many 10's. Sub size and "tightness" aren't necessarily correlated.

And as a rule of thumb, DON'T EVER GET A CAPACITOR. Upgrade the "big 3" and run proper sized wire (both of these cost less than a capacitor and need to be done to properly run a decent system anyways.) If you're still having issues, a capacitor is never the solution.

oz audio (don't recall model)

OZ Matrix Elite's. I was about to run two of these on multiple occasions. Sounds like you have the same style as me, and you've ran almost every sub I was considering (IdMax's, Eclipse Ti's, Oz ME, Type X). I ended up finding a great deal on these Critical Mass UL12's, and I can't wait to get them in an enclosure and in my car! I'm going to be running them off of a PowerBass XD3000.1 daily! Should be sick.

they are powered by single zapco c2k 9.0 (mother of sq sub amps) and i constant beat on them. subs are still running strong.

Holy Zapco, McIntosh, Dynaudio...you've spent a good amount of money on quality equipment!

God car audio newbs.... Don't listen to this guy I have a 10" sub that would blow any set up you spent twice as much on with 4 subs. Surface area is bullcrap. I'm telling you don't get a cheap pair get a single man sub you won't be disapointed.

No offense, but I wouldn't be calling anyone a newb, cause it sounds like the guy you're quoting has been around car audio longer than you (might not be true, just going off of the sounds of it since he's talking more of the slightly older school stuff and you're harping about Fi and Incriminator (both great companies BTW, just newer than the one's he's talking about.) I'm not a newb either, go look at my join date on that car audio forum you suggested

And I have to disagree with you about surface area being bullcrap. Sd (surface area) is a big factor in SPL, as is the x-max, Bl, efficiency etc. Your one empirical experience of swapping out two specific subs for one specific sub doesn't mean it'll be true in all cases. Like was said, doubling the Sd is the theoretical eqivalent of a 3dB gain (which technically is doubling the SPL, though the perceived "twice as loud" actually requires a much higher dB gain.) I've personally had setups with lots of Sd and not as much x-max (3 12's with about 14mm x-max) and setups with big x-max but not as much Sd (for example, my current RE SX 15), and there's no way you can say surface area is bullcrap. It's a big factor, just like many others.

Both of the subs he's considering are great subs pretty close to on par with each other, so in his situation you can't say "don't to get a cheap pair vs. a better single one."

If you cant see our your rearview, it too loud.

*for you

well I had a few option, but I think I will settle for single 10" alpine swr-1023d. I just need to find someone who can build me a custom .5 cube for the sub that fit nicely in the trunk

Good choice. Out of those two subs, with your stated goals, that's probably exactly what I would do. And just to re-emphasize what everyone else is saying and what you're already doing, getting the proper custom-built box is crucial. BTW, I have personal experience with the Alpine Type-R's (I had two twelves), and those subs really come alive in a ported box. It would also help make the setup a little more efficient since you're not running a whole lot of power. I go ported if it were me.

And nice amp. I'm going to be running a PDX as well for my components in my S4 setup.

Good luck!

[Capt. Obvious]

I'm not a huge car stereo nerd, I just like to keep things simple.


Powered by an Xtant 2140c. Going to be swapping out the stock Bose doors speakers for some Infinity 4032cf's in the near future.

[soundspeedstyle]

Jibberjive... Maybe the other cuz isn't a new but might as well be consider a newb going off his old school info. Game has changed products and companys have grow and so must you.

With the new subs out there (not limited to FI) you can't say one of those won't put two and sometime three of the olders ones to shame. The main thing to focus on is the box after that, excursion/SA, then watts is something your need to keep in the back of your head at all times. Obviously SA is not something to ignore but I was just saying do not focus on it.

1 good 500 watt sub wll sound better than 2x250s you can argue that.

I'm just going off the information put into this thread now that the intel has been raised moe precise info must be given :).

Now in this case would he not b happier with 1 quality sub IE fi Q?

[Audiophyle]

+ eleventy billion to everything jibberjive said, way to cut through some of the BS in here.

[Capt. Obvious]

Game has changed products and companys have grow and so must you.

Meh. I don't think the game has changed for the better in most respects. I'll take an old school PPI, Xtant, etc. amp over anything that's been made in the past 10 years or so. Same with subs, to a degree.