S4 vs. IS-F

[AJS1]

Hey guys,
Thought to have made up my mind on a new S4, I recently became interested in a used Lexus IS-F. A 2008 IS-F with sub 20k mileage is around ~$42-$45k and a new S4 starts at ~$47k for the S-tronic. Has anyone here driven both and can comment on the differences and the plus and minuse's of both? I like the idea of having a V8 with 414hp and an auto transmission so I can put-put in traffic without the jerkiness or inherent low-rpm shifting s-tronic, while still having a very quick manu-matic option to use.
All the long term review's I have read about the IS-F have been positive in the areas I care most; quality, maintenance issues, fun to drive, great engine/trans etc... Negatives being harsh riding suspension, fugly body accents and a slight heavy feeling when tracking the car. Acceleration was tested by C&D to be 4.2 sec. 0-60 new and at 40k miles.
I have driven a new S4 in a manual and absolutely love it, but for my purposes an automatic transmission is a must for traffic and business commutes. I have not heard very pleasing reviews of the S-tronic in regards to the D mode for auto shifting and that is a major detractor of my interest. If anyone has had similar conflictions in choosing between the two please chime in. Have a great rest of the week!

Andrew

[ISFANDS4]

I actually have an ISF and in December, I leased my wife an S4, already has 6500 miles. I have had the isf for 2 years/9000 miles, the ISF is
definitely faster in every respect, it also handles better due to the 300lb lower weight and rear wheel drive, have not had any problems with the car and I love the aggressive looks. The S4 is also awesome, a little slower, handling is a little more lethargic, but the interior is far superior, we have stronic and the down shifts are quicker than the isf while the upshifts in the isf are much quicker. I always drive the isf in paddle shift mode while I leave the S4 in Smode automatic. My advice is if you are buying car to keep for a while go for isf, if you are leasing for short term get the S4, deals are much better. Both are great cars and I could definitely live with just either one of them. Good luck!

[Okan509]

I actually have an ISF and in December, I leased my wife an S4, already has 6500 miles. I have had the isf for 2 years/9000 miles, the ISF is
definitely faster in every respect, it also handles better due to the 300lb lower weight and rear wheel drive, have not had any problems with the car and I love the aggressive looks. The S4 is also awesome, a little slower, handling is a little more lethargic, but the interior is far superior, we have stronic and the down shifts are quicker than the isf while the upshifts in the isf are much quicker. I always drive the isf in paddle shift mode while I leave the S4 in Smode automatic. My advice is if you are buying car to keep for a while go for isf, if you are leasing for short term get the S4, deals are much better. Both are great cars and I could definitely live with just either one of them. Good luck!

Are you nuts???? The Toyota has better handling because it's rear wheel drive? Sorry I can't take anything you just said seriously because you said a rear wheel drive car handles better than quattro

The IS-F is barely faster too, .3 seconds, especially with how underrated the S4 is...

I also like how on the site it says it has better miles per gallon than the S4, says it has "the comparative advantage"

[Johnny732]

Are you nuts???? The Toyota has better handling because it's rear wheel drive? Sorry I can't take anything you just said seriously because you said a rear wheel drive car handles better than quattro

The IS-F is barely faster too, .3 seconds, especially with how underrated the S4 is...

I also like how on the site it says it has better miles per gallon than the S4, says it has "the comparative advantage"

Rear wheel drive cars do handle well. Quattro is great for all around driving and with the new sport diff the car handles much better and turns in sharper. But have you ever driven an M3 which is a rear wheel drive car. If not get in one especially on the track the car turns in so well and pivots on a dime. I own an S4 and M3. Both are great in their own respects and are very different but in the handling category the M3 is the hands down winner.

[cotmfk]

Yes, handling is affected by awd vs. rwd, but that's not the only thing. Just because the car is AWD does not mean it automatically handles better than a RWD car.

[Ray Khan]

2006 RS4 was 10 seconds faster than the IS-F on the ring. I'm guessing the B8 S4 would be closer tot he RS4 than the IS-F. In the end, I know I'll never take advantage of the full potential of any car I drive, so I would just get the car you like more. For me, I want AWD for the winter.

[Dan[FN]6262]

AWD = Understeer. always. period

RWD = Very fun, unless in heavy snow conditions.... and heavy rain... if you can't drive.


personally I do not like the looks of the IS-F. but they are nice cars. I love the gauge ceremony when you turn it on.

[legbend]

I thought the transmission in the IS-F was ridiculous. No need for 8 gears, it felt like it was always shifting. The ride was harsh, almost as harsh than my lowered S60R. Sounded great, but I was also disappointed with the interior, looks and materials. I liked the C63 much better, but in the end I didn't want an automatic.

[NWS4Guy]

AWD = Understeer. always. period

Sorry but not true at all, especially in the B8 with the sport diff.

[westwest888]

I had signed up to drive the IS-F at Summit Point raceway a few years ago. It was a pay-to-play event. Might have been $250 to drive it for the morning. I ended up canceling at the last minute because of the 8 speed transmission. I've driven that track MANY times and you only need two gears to do it. With a car as highly powered as the IS-F you could probably do the whole track in 4th gear without sacrificing lap time.

Anyway, when you're talking 375 ft/lb of torque AWD is to your advantage. I have high hopes for the sports rear differential making this car best the 335i and put it competitive with the M3. When I get out on the track, I'll let you all know.

[bl0wn3ur0]

AWD = Understeer. always. period

RWD = Very fun, unless in heavy snow conditions.... and heavy rain... if you can't drive.


personally I do not like the looks of the IS-F. but they are nice cars. I love the gauge ceremony when you turn it on.

I'm gonna need you to go drive an EVO and then come back and say that "AWD = understeer". Before people jump one me, I know an evo is completely different than the cars being discussed, I am simply addressing the generalization of all AWD systems. Quattro cars understeer because audi insists on putting the motors so far forward in the cars, and they also set them up to do that for safety. Oh and BTW just because RWD is "fun" doesn't mean it handles better as a rule, if that were the case audi wouldn't have been banned from so many different racing series.

[blmlozz]

I think the most important thing to remember is the IS-F was made to compete with an E90 M3.. and the S4 although newer, is in the 335i market range. It's only natural the IS-F is going to feel faster. If you're into modding cars at all though, eventually the B8 S4 (being the first F/I S car since the B5) will show it's shine.

Are you nuts???? The Toyota has better handling because it's rear wheel drive? Sorry I can't take anything you just said seriously because you said a rear wheel drive car handles better than quattro

quattro is nice.. but you're kidding yourself if you think it's superior to RWD in handling. Maybe it is if you have butterfingers and hams for hands.. otherwise don't kid yourself.

[NWS4Guy]

I had signed up to drive the IS-F at Summit Point raceway a few years ago. It was a pay-to-play event. Might have been $250 to drive it for the morning. I ended up canceling at the last minute because of the 8 speed transmission. I've driven that track MANY times and you only need two gears to do it. With a car as highly powered as the IS-F you could probably do the whole track in 4th gear without sacrificing lap time.

Anyway, when you're talking 375 ft/lb of torque AWD is to your advantage. I have high hopes for the sports rear differential making this car best the 335i and put it competitive with the M3. When I get out on the track, I'll let you all know.

Recorded track times have the S4 over the E90

http://fastestlaps.com/comparisons/_..._335i_e90.html

[Shnab]

Although The ISF is nice and it handles well etc. I dont think its an appropriate car. Lexus has no business making performance cars when 70% of their market is senior citizens. also this is their first performance car. who knows what little quirks the car will have down the road.

although less power in the S4 it would still be my car of choice. a simple ECU flash (when its released) would put it at close to 400hp.

[copia22]

I have driven the Lexus it's styling is overly aggressive if you plan on driving it then the 8 gear transmission will end up biting you.. I promise it sounds great but when you are pushing it the last thing you want is to play around with what gear you are in. The IS-F had no interior, I am 6'2 and felt cramped. But the worst thing... the worst thing is every kid with a STI, EVO, G35 will want to go at it with you.

I haven't driven the S4 so can't comment on that.

[drvolkl]

the ISF is definitely faster in every respect, it also handles better due to the 300lb lower weight and rear wheel drive,

? I would have thought they'd be pretty close... and I can't imagine the IS-F handles better at all. Differently, sure... RWD vs FWD, but I highly doubt it would be faster around any track....

[NWS4Guy]

? I would have thought they'd be pretty close... and I can't imagine the IS-F handles better at all. Differently, sure... RWD vs FWD, but I highly doubt it would be faster around any track....

The 2 tracks on record, show the ISF barely edges out the S4 (by less than a second) on the Hockenheim Short track, but on Virigina International Raceway, the S4 smoked it (by over 3 seconds)

Hockenheim Short
ISF - 1:15.8
S4 - 1:16.7

Virginia International Raceway
ISF - 3:14.0
S$ - 3:10.8

You have to ignore the "Verdict" at the bottom as this always uses MFG suggested times and measurements. The track times are what is more accurate. http://www.fastestlaps.com/compariso...udi_S4_B8.html

[joung300]

The 2 tracks on record, show the ISF barely edges out the S4 (by less than a second) on the Hockenheim Short track, but on Virigina International Raceway, the S4 smoked it (by over 3 seconds)

Hockenheim Short
ISF - 1:15.8
S4 - 1:16.7

Virginia International Raceway
ISF - 3:14.0
S$ - 3:10.8

You have to ignore the "Verdict" at the bottom as this always uses MFG suggested times and measurements. The track times are what is more accurate. http://www.fastestlaps.com/compariso...udi_S4_B8.html

I believe a 1 second margin is relatively big on a track like Hockenheim Short.

The trick torque-vectoring AWD on the S4 is amazing indeed but nothing can truly mask 4,000 + curb weight. Not that the IS-F is a lot lighter but weight is a crucial factor in handling.

[mtmspeed]

wow! this has turned out to be a hot topic....Regardless of lap times, 0-60 times, HP/TQ #s, magazine articles, forum opinions, available mods, AWD vs. RWD, you have to ask yourself what is right for you.
Do you plan on racing your daily ride on the track? Do you plan on drifting it through your subdivision each night on the way home? Do you plan on racing your wife to the grocery store?
Both cars are equally competent in their performance caracteristics but which do you want to commute in each day, which would you rather get stuck in traffic in? For me the S4 is a winner all around, fit, trim and accessories make it a much nicer environment in my opinion.

I wouldn't choose a car based on it being .3 seconds faster or because a magazine says a car understeers or oversteers during hard track time. Articles are written as if we are all test pilots for a race series.....

They're both nice cars.....just let your wife pick the one she likes out of the two and you get a winner all around.

[cotmfk]

Do you plan on racing your wife to the grocery store?.

Definitely a lot of fun! But, the way home (and after you get there) is better.

[NWS4Guy]

They're both nice cars.....just let your wife pick the one she likes out of the two and you get a winner all around.

Spoken like a wise married man!

[wwhan]

I sat in the IS-F, but there is very little headroom. It felt cramped inside.

The IS-F and suffers from some the same drawbacks as the Cadillac CTS-V; lousy gas mileage
and I feel they are not too appealing to look at. The S4 looks better to me.

[Nvius]

The fake, stacked quad exhaust is a deal breaker for me. But that doesn't mean I don't think the ISF is a nice car.

[romanvn106]

all i have to say is

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=irFK8VJ_vDs


thanks

[Twowheelsgood]

I traded an IS350 for the S4. The Lexus had slighly higher quality interior but the S4 is way more functional and just a touch behind in lux with the dash face, etc.
I have an S-tronic and I like it quite a bit. Maybe a later car with better code, but it shifts perfectly smoothly when cruising and does a good job when going quickly. The paddles work well for going fast, at lesat in comparison to slush box trannys with paddles that I've used. The problem with the IS/F as a street car is that they wedge such large wheels into IS fenders that it has just about zero suspension travel. Fine if you live in paradise (or most of Europe) but would be painfully awful around Boston where I live. That, plus RWD in snow, put me off the IS/F when I was shopping.

[mtmspeed]

all i have to say is

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=irFK8VJ_vDs


thanks

Childish...waste of server space and time!

[Dr GP]

Haven't driven an IS F but my wife does have an IS250AW. I know that that's is a completely different animal. BUT, If I were to consider an ISF, I would prefer the M3. The S4 is a great alternative if you are not driving drag race style all the time. IMHO, it is fast enough for any"street emergency"Nod,Nod, wink, wink! But the sport dif makes this car something special. Understeer with the sport dif is almost nil IMHO, the ISF is not special. IMHO, It is a Japanese attempt at the M3 that falls short. Lousy gas mileage as well. If you are really serious about having a great performance car, get the M3. If you want a great daily driver that will perform get the S4 . And If you wait just a few months you should be able to get a chip or flash that will bring the performance of the S4 to level comparable to the ISF.http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ee-6Tvd0q34

[romanvn106]

the isf is garbage i had one and nothing crazy. you could never get the 0-60 times as lexus claims yes it fast but not what there claiming. If your going to be in the new york region you could call me anytime and i will show you . my best friend has one now and his trading it for a gtr

[ISFANDS4]

Wow this is a hot topic! Lets clear a few things up, I feel I am definitely qualified to give a Real World opinion here, not magazine racing! For reference among the cars I have owned in the past are 2 E36 M3's, honda s2000, acura nsx, mb cls55, and a 996 porsche turbo, all bought new and enjoyed! So rear wheel drive definitely handles better even with my porsche turbo, the isf is faster than my cls55 was and as fast as my turbo in real world speed. Isf is not the best handling car but it does handle well, also I hate lexus' cant believe I actually bought one...what can I say the car has a mystique to it. Also the exhaust is not fake, it is a true stacked dual exhaust with four tips, the tips are not atached as with the murcielago, bentley continental, ferrari california bugatti veyron etc... I dont like the c63 benz anymore the transmission is crap and the interior is cheap. I love the e90 M3's. The ISF is the second automatic I have ever owned after the cls55, the transmission is awesome and the 8 gears never come into play when you keep it in manual mode!

ALSO THE ISF GETS MUCH BETTER GAS MILEAGE THAN MY S4 , ESPECIALLY ON THE HIGHWAY! unless you own both please do not state "facts" from magazines i have both in my garage and drive them at my leisure so I think I know how they compare to each other. Thank you for reading...

[Hansel]

all i have to say is

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=irFK8VJ_vDs


thanks

Man with the S4 with a tune will CRUSH all of them. Now I'm pumped.

[Nvius]

Wow this is a hot topic! Lets clear a few things up, I feel I am definitely qualified to give a Real World opinion here, not magazine racing! For reference among the cars I have owned in the past are 2 E36 M3's, honda s2000, acura nsx, mb cls55, and a 996 porsche turbo, all bought new and enjoyed! So rear wheel drive definitely handles better even with my porsche turbo, the isf is faster than my cls55 was and as fast as my turbo in real world speed. Isf is not the best handling car but it does handle well, also I hate lexus' cant believe I actually bought one...what can I say the car has a mystique to it. Also the exhaust is not fake, it is a true stacked dual exhaust with four tips, the tips are not atached as with the murcielago, bentley continental, ferrari california bugatti veyron etc... I dont like the c63 benz anymore the transmission is crap and the interior is cheap. I love the e90 M3's. The ISF is the second automatic I have ever owned after the cls55, the transmission is awesome and the 8 gears never come into play when you keep it in manual mode!

ALSO THE ISF GETS MUCH BETTER GAS MILEAGE THAN MY S4 , ESPECIALLY ON THE HIGHWAY! unless you own both please do not state "facts" from magazines i have both in my garage and drive them at my leisure so I think I know how they compare to each other. Thank you for reading...

Not trying to discredit your review between the two cars as you're opinion holds the most water in this thread since you own both cars, but this is what i mean in terms of "fake". But yes, I infact do see the double stack quad behind the facade also, which I was not aware of.

[brownishwater]

I have driven the Lexus it's styling is overly aggressive if you plan on driving it then the 8 gear transmission will end up biting you.. I promise it sounds great but when you are pushing it the last thing you want is to play around with what gear you are in. The IS-F had no interior, I am 6'2 and felt cramped. But the worst thing... the worst thing is every kid with a STI, EVO, G35 will want to go at it with you.

I haven't driven the S4 so can't comment on that.

I can attest to that.

However, for an auto tranny, it's head and shoulders above BMW's SMG or any other automatic transmission for that matter.

Rule #1 for an IS-F owner: Constantly check transmission fluid

[wwhan]

If the EPA is wrong about the MPG ratings, maybe someone should inform them, that their ratings are incorrect?

From web page; http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/findacar.htm

S4 2010, DSG
18 City, 21 Combined, 28 Hwy

IS-F 2010
16 City, 18 Combined, 23 Hwy

[xtrema]

I traded an IS350 for the S4. The Lexus had slighly higher quality interior but the S4 is way more functional and just a touch behind in lux with the dash face, etc.

Actually I found it's the opposite.

I found the IS350 interior too Corolla like. Switches and buttons looks very cheap.

[Okan509]

When I said it handles better, I meant in the conditions of real life, not on a track...

Anyways the ISF isn't even in the same league IMO, but go for it if you like it...

In that video that RS4 sounds sickkkkkk.... anyways, looked like those cars had exhausts systems and what not, and the S4 looked pretty stock... Don't know if it was really a head to head challenge

[BKNYCS4]

S4 All the way! 1/4 Mile practically the same, S4 Does have better Fuel Economy, S4 Costs Less, Easier to Mod(soon), Quattro especially with the Sport Diff is an amazing system... and give it a lil snow or rain and the ISF disappears in the rear view...

[nick71692]

I debated this topic for months before I decided on buying the s4. The ISF sounds better but to me that was about it. The interior to me was dated and old. Additionally although horsepower figures vary i didnt think they were that far apart performance wise. One thing I could not get is that it took lexus 3 years to figure out that the car needed a LSD rather than a make believe one. Plus with any inclement weather the S4 is the clear winner. The choice ended up being clear for me, S4 all the way.

[ISFANDS4]

If the EPA is wrong about the MPG ratings, maybe someone should inform them, that their ratings are incorrect?

From web page; http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/findacar.htm

S4 2010, DSG
18 City, 21 Combined, 28 Hwy


IS-F 2010
16 City, 18 Combined, 23 Hwy

According to my real world numbers yes the Isf has better gas mileage, ironic since it has a 5 liter V8 compared to 3liter sc v6

[ISFANDS4]

Actually I found it's the opposite.

I found the IS350 interior too Corolla like. Switches and buttons looks very cheap.

I agree, as I stated earlier the S4 interior is far superior, except for the seats, isf seats are more comfortable while hugging in corners

[ISFANDS4]

I debated this topic for months before I decided on buying the s4. The ISF sounds better but to me that was about it. The interior to me was dated and old. Additionally although horsepower figures vary i didnt think they were that far apart performance wise. One thing I could not get is that it took lexus 3 years to figure out that the car needed a LSD rather than a make believe one. Plus with any inclement weather the S4 is the clear winner. The choice ended up being clear for me, S4 all the way.

The make believe lsd actually works perfectly in real world driving, it is in the most extreme track conditions where a true lsd has an advantage.