A4 vs S60R ?

[ronin152]

I have really wanted an s-line a4 or an older b6/b7 s4 but they have been so hard to come by in exactly what I want. I just took a look at the Volvo s60R and it seemed like a really nice car. You get 300 hp and with a tune and exhaust you are into the 330hp+ range plus the cars seem to be going for dirt cheap compared to a comparable audi. The interior is no where near the audi's but the seats are amazing and the outside actually does not look that bad. I also like the fact that you can adjust the suspension. However, the car uses a 90/10 tq split with more tq being sent to the back when it slips. I don't really like this and would prefer the audi awd system over this. But I guess for a couple thousand less I could put up with the faults of a s60r and have it be at s4 speed for no where near the price. Just wanted to see what everyone else though and if anyone has driven one? Thanks in advance.

[maidest]

this is an audi forum, volvo is not audi. Get audi.

[CELison]

The S60R has its fair amount of problems. (transmission if I remember correctly) I would deffinetly read into it more before you purchase one if you go that route. Great car none the less

[JRMSLINEA4]

This is what you need to know since my previous car was a S60R. Page down to my post. http://www.audizine.com/forum/showth...highlight=s60r

[Stewy]

I too have heard about transmission issues on those cars. A friend of mine is a Volvo mechanic and actually has one for his personal vehicle. I know he's had his fair share of issues. I'll pick his brain and reply back. And you're right, the seats in the S60R are super nice!

[JRMSLINEA4]

And you're right, the seats in the S60R are super nice!

Yep the seats are what I miss but will not fit a BIG person.

[grimlock]

The S60R would certainly be faster performance-wise, but I think you should be patient and wait for the right Audi to come along.

[JRMSLINEA4]

The S60R would certainly be faster performance-wise, but I think you should be patient and wait for the right Audi to come along.

Stock it will but after that you can make your 2.0T A4 faster with not a-lot of money. My S60R went 13.78 with a high-flow filter and engine mount otherwise stock. My A4 just went 13.74 with mods in signature.

[ronin152]

This is what you need to know since my previous car was a S60R. Page down to my post. http://www.audizine.com/forum/showth...highlight=s60r

How does it compare to your s-line? The only thing that worries me about the a4's is the dam carbon build up and Audi's lack of responsibility for it.

[JRMSLINEA4]

How does it compare to your s-line? The only thing that worries me about the a4's is the dam carbon build up and Audi's lack of responsibility for it.

Every car has issues. No looking back for me. Yes, I would like to have the Recaro's out of a S4 but other than that with what I have done to the A4 I do not miss the S60R. Overall the A4 is a better car all around. My car now is faster than my S60R and handles better and with Quattro theres no comparison. When I drive my Audi I always think now this is what a car should drive like.

[ronin152]

Would you say the car sucks or is it a nice sports sedan but there is better?

[JRMSLINEA4]

Would you say the car sucks or is it a nice sports sedan but there is better?

Did you read this? http://www.audizine.com/forum/showth...highlight=s60r

[ronin152]

Yep, everyone seemed to be pretty down on it. I guess I will try to test drive one and keep looking for audis.

[WasGTIguy]

Well, I am afraid you are in the wrong place if you want an objective answer. I would try The Car Lounge. Broad spectrum of owners there.

http://forums.thecarlounge.com/zeroforum?id=1

[ElectroMike]

Yep, everyone seemed to be pretty down on it. I guess I will try to test drive one and keep looking for audis.

Not sure if everyone is down on it, I think it's just a more biased opinion, afterall you are in an Audi forum!

A friend of mine has a 2004 S60R and loves it, he had very minor problems.

Before I bought my A4, I looked into the R, it's a nice sporty package, once you hit 3 digits on the speedo the R can keep up with the best of them. The seats are cozy but since they are softer than the Audi seats, most of the R's I saw (very little selection in good condition and low miles) the color was fading away and you saw little crack/weak marks all over. I also had an issue with lack of space right above the pedals, seems like I kept hitting the body panels trying to move my foot from gas/brake/clutch.

From spending a few months on Sweedspeed and other Volvo forums, it seems like JRMSLINEA4 is spot on with his posts and on par with other car enthusiasts. It all depends on what you are willing to spend on repairs to maintain it. Since there are not too many R's out there the aftermarker support is low and everything is expensive compared to the Audi.

Three cars I suggest you test drive, all 2006 models or better, S60R, S4, 330xi, feel the cornering under hard acceleration, find some hairpins, then compare the repair costs after CPO/warranty is up. After these you will be dissapointed with a stock A4 (2.0T) but with mods it tends to be a nice well rounded daily.

Good luck!

[tjsingh]

If u want people to compliment u..then get an Audi. If u want performance get the audi...SO GET AN AUDI!!!

[fbox]

If u want people to compliment u..then get an Audi.

Ha! The R owners used to joke that the worst part of driving the R was (that you were assumed to be just like) the "other" Volvo owners. Grannys and non-MILFs don't make for the best company. :D

It certainly doesn't take long to get tired of having to explain to your non-car buddies why you bought a Volvo.

[tankdeer]

Both are nice, both have their share of problems. But if you go with the R, get a V70R.

[SEXICÄN]

850R, all the other Volvos' suck!

I'd rather buy a B7 and get S3 K04 over a 330hp S60R

[tankdeer]

850R, all the other Volvos' suck!

850R Estate is a thing of beauty.

[Ramathorn]

I actually toyed with a s60r on the Parkway a few weeks ago... and let me tell you that car is fast! I tried to pull on it (and I am chipped) and he was there right behind me at all times. I eventually talked to him... and found out his car was chipped as well... hence the insane amount of power. He told me my car had a nice stance to say the less... and btw he was a member on swedespeed forums ( a place you should probably check out)

[vdubjetta02]

s60 R with a tune and Full turboback are actually around 360 BHP IIRC.... way way more hp than a B7 A4.... and the seats are nicer....

and yes a "stage 2" if you will s60R will even take a k04'd a4 ......they are fast cars with luxury and seats that put ours to shame... i say buy the S60R and the couple grand you save you can put towards any problems that arise???? that way you have a faster car with better seats

S60R

- better performance
- better seats
- better exhaust note
- cheaper

seems like the winner to me... i just couldn't find one with the "OEM body kit" or i would be driving that over my audi

[Matteeee]

However, the car uses a 90/10 tq split with more tq being sent to the back when it slips.

That is not true. Slip is only required in situations where you start standing still. When driving, you have a 90/10 split as you say, but as soon as you accelerate (without wheel slip) or if you turn, the torque split equals out. No slip is needed to transfer more torque to the rear.

I used to drive a TTq with the same Haldex system and I read alot about it.
But it is NOT the same as the Torsen system, but it is far from bad.

In the Volvos however, they use rather weak drive train parts (front bevel gear, rear diff, drive axles) which are common problems, especially regarding tuned cars.
The Haldex itself is quite strong. The same system is used on the Bugatti Veyron, with 1001hp!

But still, I drive my A4 2.0Tsq and not the S60R, being from Sweden and all ;)

[plokm]

Funny I was deciding between the same cars! I chose Audi A4 of course!!

[ronin152]

There really are not alot of cars in the AWD, Manual, 300+ hp, reasonably spacious class.

[scottns]

S60R has the same turning radius as a full size Chevy Suburban... No thanks.

[Jagg3d]

S60R has the same turning radius as a full size Chevy Suburban... No thanks.

x2, tried parallel park a friends S60 and I got no where, seemed no matter how much I turned the wheel the car barely adjusted. S60 1 - Me 0.

[davis449]

The Evolve kitted S60R's are fucking sweet looking cars. I thought about getting one before my A4 purchase. My problem, at the time, was lack of close availability of the S60R I wanted and I was on a time clock for purchase. One thing I do know is that you don't want the 2004-2005.5 with the shitty Gear Tronic auto. They had to limit the torque in 1st and 2nd on those tranny's because they were so weak. The 2005.5 and on models were upgraded to handle it, but again, I have no idea why anyone would buy that car in anything but a manual. Funny thing is, I'm still heavily considering getting one.

[fbox]

The Evolve kitted S60R's are fucking sweet looking cars.

Oh so true.

Have fun browsing the "R Gallery" here:
http://www.deepnetconsulting.com/swedespeed/gallery/r/

Pic whoring of my old V70R at the track:

[coolguy32]

i saw a very nice black one on the freeway today, it was slammed with aftermaket wheels(well at least i thought they were...we hit traffic and i caught a glance of the rims, they looked very similiar to the Ti package wheels) honestly....it looked sick. check out the evolve version http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/...lve/index.html

[AofC_RR]

Sweet engine exhaust note on those things. I will say they handle terribly at low speeds. They've got a terrible turning radius. We've taken a couple in on trade and I've driven them. Great in a straight line. Love that turbo inline 5.

[ronin152]

^is it really that bad? I think I read some where that the suspension was designed by ohlins.

[JRMSLINEA4]

s60 R with a tune and Full turboback are actually around 360 BHP IIRC.... way way more hp than a B7 A4.... and the seats are nicer....

and yes a "stage 2" if you will s60R will even take a k04'd a4 ......they are fast cars with luxury and seats that put ours to shame... i say buy the S60R and the couple grand you save you can put towards any problems that arise???? that way you have a faster car with better seats

S60R

- better performance
- better seats
- better exhaust note
- cheaper

seems like the winner to me... i just couldn't find one with the "OEM body kit" or i would be driving that over my audi

All good points but it will cost you 3k+ to get there and 360 BHP is a little optimistic. I paid $1200 for a Evolve downpipe only!! Honestly my 034 HFC gave me a better gain for $300

[gyroscope]

s60 R with a tune and Full turboback are actually around 360 BHP IIRC.... way way more hp than a B7 A4.... and the seats are nicer....

and yes a "stage 2" if you will s60R will even take a k04'd a4 ......they are fast cars with luxury and seats that put ours to shame... i say buy the S60R and the couple grand you save you can put towards any problems that arise???? that way you have a faster car with better seats

S60R

- better performance
- better seats
- better exhaust note
- cheaper

seems like the winner to me... i just couldn't find one with the "OEM body kit" or i would be driving that over my audi

I agree, the S60R is in a more elite class than the A4. From my past experience in ownership with Volvo's and Saab's, the one thing I can tell you is that Sweedish cars are well put togehter using top of line parts and components. If I had known better before buying my A4, I would have opted for an S60R. Audi stiffed the B7 owners with the cheap seats. Volvo wouldn't pull such maneuver because they produce such a limited number of cars every year, and they have to uphold their reputation to a higher standard. I wouldn't even necessarily place the S60R in the same class as the B7 A4. It is a much more complex machine, intended for a more elite buying segment.

[davis449]

All good points but it will cost you 3k+ to get there and 360 BHP is a little optimistic. I paid $1200 for a Evolve downpipe only!! Honestly my 034 HFC gave me a better gain for $300

While I agree that 360 BHP definitely IS optimistic with those mods, I can't agree with your complaints about the cost involved. Seriously, I would think if you owned one and bought that mod (the DP) you would've looked at it and realized what you're paying that $1500 for. It's a DP with a HFC built into it. Yeah, still seems like it's a bit overpriced, but do the math and you'll see that pre-034 days, your only option for the A4 was a Milltek HFC that was $800 by itself. As for the rest of it, I've added it all up, and to make the same HP gains on our cars (80 HP), it costs the same amt. of money, at retail prices. All of this and at least when you buy Evolve's software, yeah you pay $895 for it, but they actually give you the shit: the Direct Port cable, the software, and the tune files to put on your own laptop. Name a company that does that for Audi's and Revo DOES NOT COUNT because you still have to go to a dealer to get chipped first.

[RedS-line]

IMO Its pretty easy to see that the A4, while a beautiful car with a good amount of power to be unlocked, is still limited as it will never be a monster without a BAT. Maxed out K03s still disappoint if youve ever been in the STI/EVO crowd or even near todays 300+ hp v6's (Infiniti, Lexus, Chevy etc.). Buy the S60R if you need more power than what the A4 can give, or better yet, buy a Subaru Legacy GT SpecB. Or, to take the cake, buy a used 335XI and be really happy.

[JRMSLINEA4]

While I agree that 360 BHP definitely IS optimistic with those mods, I can't agree with your complaints about the cost involved. Seriously, I would think if you owned one and bought that mod (the DP) you would've looked at it and realized what you're paying that $1500 for. It's a DP with a HFC built into it. Yeah, still seems like it's a bit overpriced, but do the math and you'll see that pre-034 days, your only option for the A4 was a Milltek HFC that was $800 by itself. As for the rest of it, I've added it all up, and to make the same HP gains on our cars (80 HP), it costs the same amt. of money, at retail prices. All of this and at least when you buy Evolve's software, yeah you pay $895 for it, but they actually give you the shit: the Direct Port cable, the software, and the tune files to put on your own laptop. Name a company that does that for Audi's and Revo DOES NOT COUNT because you still have to go to a dealer to get chipped first.

Yep, my point was parts are more expensive in the Volvo market and don't give the same gains as in the Audi market. A reflash gives you about half the gain as our cars. But I also think the Volvo Turbo I-5 is close to what it can make safely at 300h.p. Not de-tuned like Audi's 2.7TT/2.0T/ 3.0T(supercharged).

[ronin152]

^2 Well spoken. That is exactly what I feel about the a4 and why I am leaning more towards the s60r or s4. In addition, the carbon build up is a big thing causing me to shy away from the a4s and all the cam follower issues + carbon in the 2.0t make me not want to get that and the 3.2L is just underpowered.