EV14 injector installation?

[Raacerx]

I just installed my ev-14's I ran into the same probems raacer had. They wouldn't sit deep enough when clipped to the fuel rail. I ended up taking the lower o-rings off the stock injectors cause they are much beefier. They were tough to get it but after lubing them and working them all in out and before putting the rail on I got them to fit deep. I used stock clips no spacers and I got them to fit like the stock injectors. I feel 100% confident in this method. The lower o-rings that came with the ev-14's didn't seem to sit deep enough because they float a little bit on the injector. The beefy stock ones fill out all the space.

Man, I didnt think about doing that. that is a good idea to use the OEM lower o-rings.

[americanthunder]

What year, manifold, fuel rail?

mine is a early 2000 stock fuel rail

[americanthunder]

Man, I didnt think about doing that. that is a good idea to use the OEM lower o-rings.

if your still concerned about yours I would give it a try like I said they are gonna be hard to get in at first but just lube them up with some oil and work them once you get them in and out a couple time they pop right in. Then clip them to the rail, then push the rail down, double and triple check they are seated properly then bolt the rail back down, and your good to go.

[Raacerx]

if your still concerned about yours I would give it a try like I said they are gonna be hard to get in at first but just lube them up with some oil and work them once you get them in and out a couple time they pop right in. Then clip them to the rail, then push the rail down, double and triple check they are seated properly then bolt the rail back down, and your good to go.

the injectors were for a friend/customer. 034Motorsport is installing mine as part of the tune, so I will be curious what/how they do it.

[chronogn]

I just wanted to chime in on this 2 year old thread.
After reading this thread and couple of other threads about the EV14, I decided to install the EV14s without the clip.
DO NOT DO THIS.

After couple of months driving it this way, the EV14 ended up getting pushed far enough the manifold that you can see the top O-rings that goes into the fuel rail (I'm guessing due to the fuel rail pressure). One of the injector was pushed out far enough that it sprayed fuel all over the driver side of the engine. I am lucky that I smelled the fuel before the car ended up catching on fire or something.

[infinkc]

My update also, I was running clips, new OEM o-rings before. Just switched to injector hats and spacers from 034. I have to say its a much nicer and safer setup, the injectors seat all the way into the manifold. I never liked being able to see the o-ring in the manifold.

[aysix]

Wow! Its amazing how much max learned within 2 years.

[034Motorsport]

Wow! Its amazing how much max learned within 2 years.

Hah!

2.5 years ago is right when people started to use EV14's on these cars. VAST was improperly supplying hardware for their customers, total safety issue. I've since sold many old VAST customers the appropriate parts to safely use the Bosch injectors.

All of our 2.7T fueling kits include RS4 injector hats and 6mm fuel rail spacers, like "infinkc" mentioned. This is the ONLY way to safely install them and there is no need to change o-rings.

When using an RS4 intake manifold, it is highly suggested that with EV14 injectors, you use a 13mm copper washer over the bottom of the injector (in between o-rings) to keep the injector from being pushed into the intake manifold from the high fuel pressure.

Injector clips are your friend!

[AudiSportB5S4]

I've since sold many old VAST customers the appropriate parts to safely use the Bosch injectors.

What do you mean? What should you have? I helped Mike develop the 52lb EV14 tune on my car a couple years ago and I've had no problems.

[aysix]

Hah!

2.5 years ago is right when people started to use EV14's on these cars. VAST was improperly supplying hardware for their customers, total safety issue. I've since sold many old VAST customers the appropriate parts to safely use the Bosch injectors.

All of our 2.7T fueling kits include RS4 injector hats and 6mm fuel rail spacers, like "infinkc" mentioned. This is the ONLY way to safely install them and there is no need to change o-rings.

When using an RS4 intake manifold, it is highly suggested that with EV14 injectors, you use a 13mm copper washer over the bottom of the injector (in between o-rings) to keep the injector from being pushed into the intake manifold from the high fuel pressure.

Injector clips are your friend!

I bought the injectors from vast & don't run spacers, although I am using injector clips...anything to worry about? All the orings seem to be seated nicely in the intake mani.

[034Motorsport]

What do you mean? What should you have? I helped Mike develop the 52lb EV14 tune on my car a couple years ago and I've had no problems.

I've installed quite a few fueling kits from a lot of different tuners before and since I've worked at 034Motorsport. You'll notice that ourselves and EPL both recommend injector hats when using these injectors.

Just because you can get away without running them in some cases, is not an excuse to not be extra safe. We are dealing with fuel here; anything you can do to ensure there won't be any dangerous issues, you should do.

EV14 injectors that are commonly used on the B5 S4 have a shorter length between the o-rings then factory. I don't really see how you can sit here and still defend this? I've personally witnessed injectors springing fuel leaks from VAST fueling kits. Guess what had to be done with the VAST fueling kit that this thread originally was about (that I posted)? RS4 injector hats had to be added after the injectors spring a leak at the o-ring.

Your choice was to either use the factory injector clips and then not have the lower o-ring submerged safely, or to not use the clip at all, which then meant that you would eventually pop the upper o-ring as the injector continuously is pushed further into the manifold. Keep in mind that you have over 5BAR of pressure above the injector, versus just 1 BAR below.

Please stop defending this as a safe practice; just because you got away with it, doesn't make it wise. RS4 injector hats are barely over $50 and guarantee 100% proper and safe use of the EV14 injectors in the S4 intake manifold with the OEM S4 fuel rail without any swapping of o-rings.

-Max

PS. My goal for injector hats is safety; please stop concentrating so much on defending a company that no longer exists in any form or fashion, and perhaps realize that while something may have "worked for you", it is not an indication that anything else contradicting is bullcrap. Without even taking into account my time before working at 034Motorsport, I think you are aware of the amount of B5's we work on, and the level of development we have done and are still doing for this chassis. Had we never had to repair this exact problem with other tuner's fueling kits involving EV14, I would have never opened my mouth.

There's no reason to "skate by" with something that "works", when you can do something even safer for barely any additional money; especially when it involves gasoline. If you want to save $50, cool, more power to you. We'd never ever ever recommend that.

[jibberjive]

All the orings seem to be seated nicely in the intake mani.

Keep your eye on them on first startup, even if they look well seated, as I had mine leak even though they all looked good. Should be pretty easy to see if they're leaking right off the bat.

[JPM-Engineering]

My update also, I was running clips, new OEM o-rings before. Just switched to injector hats and spacers from 034. I have to say its a much nicer and safer setup, the injectors seat all the way into the manifold. I never liked being able to see the o-ring in the manifold.

Hi

are this the ones to get?
http://www.034motorsport.com/fuel-in...s-p-17911.html

and this for ev14 injectors?
http://www.034motorsport.com/fuel-in...s-p-20197.html

[infinkc]

Hi

are this the ones to get?
http://www.034motorsport.com/fuel-in...s-p-17911.html

and this for ev14 injectors?
http://www.034motorsport.com/fuel-in...s-p-20197.html

Thats what the ones i got look like, but PM Max@034 to make sure, i asked him what ones to get and he put them on a order for me.

[JPM-Engineering]

Thanks I will email him

[AudiSportB5S4]

Etc

Max... First of all.. Easy killer. Don't answer back with a chip on your shoulder, I was asking a question. Beyond some people's belief that haven't and won't ever meet me, I was never some balls to the wall VAST dealer with all sorts of automotive knowledge and a shop, I was simply a customer who they then trusted to begin expanding their operations back in '09 or whenever it was. Since I was still in college and was able to manage it, online sales seemed pretty easy to trade off for free parts. Since things have shut down, I'm continuing on what I've been doing the whole time, my REAL work. Your whole reply to me sounds like you think I'm defending it, when in reality I'm just not aware. Again, because I'm a CUSTOMER. You know where I am today? At work on Park Avenue, doing nothing with cars.

I don't even know what the hell an injector hat is.. Where do you buy it? Lids? I asked because if you said, hey here's what we sell that I recommend, I'd probably buy it.

So easy, champ.

Now.. Do you sell these hats?

[034Motorsport]

Max... First of all.. Easy killer. Don't answer back with a chip on your shoulder, I was asking a question. Beyond some people's belief that haven't and won't ever meet me, I was never some balls to the wall VAST dealer with all sorts of automotive knowledge and a shop, I was simply a customer who they then trusted to begin expanding their operations back in '09 or whenever it was. Since I was still in college and was able to manage it, online sales seemed pretty easy to trade off for free parts. Since things have shut down, I'm continuing on what I've been doing the whole time, my REAL work. Your whole reply to me sounds like you think I'm defending it, when in reality I'm just not aware. Again, because I'm a CUSTOMER. You know where I am today? At work on Park Avenue, doing nothing with cars.

I don't even know what the hell an injector hat is.. Where do you buy it? Lids? I asked because if you said, hey here's what we sell that I recommend, I'd probably buy it.

So easy, champ.

Now.. Do you sell these hats?

I apologize if I came off harsh and personal, but in various threads you very often state exactly what you stated above; that you aren't a VAST fanboy and that you were barely a reseller. However, if you merely do a search of your posts over the last 6 months concerning the keyword VAST, you make it well known at every single possible moment that are a very big supporter of VAST and post-company-failing protector of their reputation. I feel it gets in the way of you objectively looking at some situations, automatically assuming that people are here to bash a company, that you keep reaffirming you are not affiliated with.

There are lots of things that can "work", but that doesn't necessarily mean there isn't a safer alternative. We did our own testing, after installing a very large number of our own EV14 fueling kits, and decided that "Injector Hats" and fuel rail spacers were the only way to guarantee safe operation across the board (especially when a customer may be installing this on their own).

This is what I referenced, and it can likely be found elsewhere as well.

http://www.034motorsport.com/fuel-in...s-p-17911.html

[AudiSportB5S4]

There are lots of things that can "work", but that doesn't necessarily mean there isn't a safer alternative. We did our own testing, after installing a very large number of our own EV14 fueling kits, and decided that "Injector Hats" and fuel rail spacers were the only way to guarantee safe operation across the board (especially when a customer may be installing this on their own).

This is what I referenced, and it can likely be found elsewhere as well.

http://www.034motorsport.com/fuel-in...s-p-17911.html

Gotcha, thanks. I'll probably pick these up when I get the rails.

[Jsmooth65]

The hats and spacers are listed separately on 034's website. How come 034 doesn't make a kit with the hats, spacers, and longer bolts, for the stock manifold? I see you guys have one for the RS4, that has the crush washer, but nothing for the stock mani.

When I bought mine from you guys, I had to call in order to get those longer bolts, because the web ad doesn't say how much longer they need to be, or that you need them at all.

[034Motorsport]

Gotcha, thanks. I'll probably pick these up when I get the rails.

Depending on which manifold you will be using and such, not all of the setups use the hats with our 034EFI rails. For some setups, the rail brackets are designed to negate the use of the spacers. Let me know what setup you'll be running and I'll let you know whether you need the hats or not and make sure you get the right thing.

The hats and spacers are listed separately on 034's website. How come 034 doesn't make a kit with the hats, spacers, and longer bolts, for the stock manifold? I see you guys have one for the RS4, that has the crush washer, but nothing for the stock mani.

When I bought mine from you guys, I had to call in order to get those longer bolts, because the web ad doesn't say how much longer they need to be, or that you need them at all.

That is a good idea and I'll see about at least having options on the product page.

[julex]

I'll just grind a bit off the posts (1/8" or so) while assembling the engine. Costs nothing and will ensure these puppies sit in the holes correctly while clipped into the rail.

[034Motorsport]

I'll just grind a bit off the posts (1/8" or so) while assembling the engine. Costs nothing and will ensure these puppies sit in the holes correctly while clipped into the rail.

Definitely an option too, but most people get scared with making permanent modifications to their vehicles.

[julex]

Definitely an option too, but most people get scared with making permanent modifications to their vehicles.

This option is not for faint at heart and only viable if one removes whole fuel rail assembly etc so that nothing gets cut when grinding. Hats are nice solution to the problem without a need to make any changes.

Cheers.

[Griecos4]

So what is the general consensus on using these hats? Are they needed or not? If they are what else is needed?

I'm not going to buy these hats to be "extra safe" (Max), because I don't have "extra money" to throw away. By the way I have stock fuel rails and IM.

[Griecos4]

AudiSportB5S4, how did it work out for you? Did you get these or stay the way you were?

Max... First of all.. Easy killer. Don't answer back with a chip on your shoulder, I was asking a question. Beyond some people's belief that haven't and won't ever meet me, I was never some balls to the wall VAST dealer with all sorts of automotive knowledge and a shop, I was simply a customer who they then trusted to begin expanding their operations back in '09 or whenever it was. Since I was still in college and was able to manage it, online sales seemed pretty easy to trade off for free parts. Since things have shut down, I'm continuing on what I've been doing the whole time, my REAL work. Your whole reply to me sounds like you think I'm defending it, when in reality I'm just not aware. Again, because I'm a CUSTOMER. You know where I am today? At work on Park Avenue, doing nothing with cars.

I don't even know what the hell an injector hat is.. Where do you buy it? Lids? I asked because if you said, hey here's what we sell that I recommend, I'd probably buy it.

So easy, champ.

Now.. Do you sell these hats?

[zillarob]

Ive seen some people knock down the bosses on the im where the rail bolts on to get injectors to seat better.
Not seen it done with ev14s, but might be enough.

[julex]

I shaved a tiny bit (1/8 maybe less) off my IM bosses and ev14s sit better now. With default height, the o-ring is just barely entering the hole instead of sitting firmly below the edge of it.

[bobkatkat]

I ran the EV14s with the stock clips for a short period. Got them to sit fine and no big leaks but there was always just a faint hint of fuel smell after shutdown. Hated the skidoo smell so I installed the 034 hats and spacers and it really is a huge difference. Fit is perfect you can see that the o-ring fits into the manifold like the stock injectors. After all it is fuel under high pressure on on a boosted engine. Why fuck around.

[aysix]

my ev14's with stock clips seemed to have fit perfectly like stock injectors.

[julex]

my ev14's with stock clips seemed to have fit perfectly like stock injectors.

I doubt it... If you can clearly see the orings then they're not pushed into the manifold. Unless you're not running injector clips but in that case your injectors are almost popping out of fuel rail which is much worse than having them not seating perfectly in the manifold... They're just too short to seal reliably on both ends without somethign, like a hat or shaved off bosses, to make the space they need to fill in shorter.

[bobkatkat]

my ev14's with stock clips seemed to have fit perfectly like stock injectors.

Ya mine seemed to fit, but in reality they did not fit. Now with the 034 hats and spacers i know they fit.

[Austonwerner4]

I used stock o-rings and never had a problem. No clips

[aysix]

I doubt it... If you can clearly see the orings then they're not pushed into the manifold. Unless you're not running injector clips but in that case your injectors are almost popping out of fuel rail which is much worse than having them not seating perfectly in the manifold... They're just too short to seal reliably on both ends without somethign, like a hat or shaved off bosses, to make the space they need to fill in shorter.

I'm not lying to you dude...

[bobkatkat]

I imagine new stock o-rings would seal better that the ev14 o-rings because they are slightly bigger. I did try my stock rings from my old stock injectors and they were to old and dry to do a good seal and my car only has 80k. You would have be best to get new stock o-rings if going this route.

[034Motorsport]

So what is the general consensus on using these hats? Are they needed or not? If they are what else is needed?

I'm not going to buy these hats to be "extra safe" (Max), because I don't have "extra money" to throw away. By the way I have stock fuel rails and IM.

lol

[aysix]

lol

Must be tight on money, they are like...less than 60 bucks for the set, no?

[Griecos4]

If anybody's tight on money right now you are!, Lol

Seriously though why would you buy something that is not needed. If the hats and spacers are needed I will buy them.

,Q,UOTE=aysix;8258159]Must be tight on money, they are like...less than 60 bucks for the set, no?[/QUOTE]

[aysix]

If anybody's tight on money right now you are!, Lol

Seriously though why would you buy something that is not needed. If the hats and spacers are needed I will buy them.

,Q,UOTE=aysix;8258159]Must be tight on money, they are like...less than 60 bucks for the set, no?

I'd say check the fitment first, and if you need them, then get them. As you can see they worked fine for me, and they have also fit perfectly for c0rrup on here without any modifications/hats.

[034Motorsport]

If anybody's tight on money right now you are!, Lol

Seriously though why would you buy something that is not needed. If the hats and spacers are needed I will buy them.

,Q,UOTE=aysix;8258159]Must be tight on money, they are like...less than 60 bucks for the set, no?

I explained our reasoning quite simply for why we feel they are mandatory. If you don't believe it is a legit reason, then don't buy it, but please stop automatically assuming that all I'm here for is to take your hard-earned money; I'm here to help the community and we are extremely familiar with tuning this chassis. We don't make money on things like injector spacers, we offer them because we don't want our customers spewing fuel all over their red hot engine.

If I feel you don't need a product, I'm not going to offer you it, and plenty of forum members here can attest to that.

My point has continuously been that you are dealing with FUEL; not a boost leak, a potential fuel leak. Adding the hats, while maybe not 100% absolutely necessary in 100% of every single situation, is very safe and very cheap.

If $50 to guarantee safety is too rich for your blood, you likely are modding the wrong car.

[Audone]

So do you need the hats AND spacers for the EV14's or just the hats?

(Another VAST fueling kit with EV14s and just clips)