DSG Gearbox Malfunction

[alarum_78]

Maybe we could start a sticky/poll for DSG issues? Its really hard to tell the percentage of failures and if some of us are losing sleep over nothing?

[polov005]

hmm, hopefully that's a computer glitch and not a genuine transmission issue

[Pedro1956]

Love the finish, handling and looks of my 2010 Audi B8 S4.

However, it seems that the more you spend on a car the more time it spends on a tow truck.

1. Water pump failed after only 12 months fixed under warranty.
2. Thermostat failed exactly 12 months to the day after the water pump failure
3. DSG Gearbox Malfunction requiring the mechatronics to be replaced only 3 months out of warranty and 70000 klms. $8000 repair bill with no sympathy from Audi.

This will be the last Audi we ever buy. Can not recommend Audi for reliability.

[s4buckeye]

DSG Gearbox Malfunction requiring the mechatronics to be replaced only 3 months out of warranty and 70000 klms. $8000 repair bill with no sympathy from Audi.

Sorry to hear than man. That REALLY sucks.

[2010drive]

Love the finish, handling and looks of my 2010 Audi B8 S4.

However, it seems that the more you spend on a car the more time it spends on a tow truck.

1. Water pump failed after only 12 months fixed under warranty.
2. Thermostat failed exactly 12 months to the day after the water pump failure
3. DSG Gearbox Malfunction requiring the mechatronics to be replaced only 3 months out of warranty and 70000 klms. $8000 repair bill with no sympathy from Audi.

This will be the last Audi we ever buy. Can not recommend Audi for reliability.

That's why I will never own an expensive car out of warranty.

[tins5]

This is really getting me worried now. Will Audi ever do anything about your mechatronics if there are no alerts on the dash? I only have about 10k miles left on my warranty. Although i haven't gotten any alerts yet, i feel like i have experienced some symptoms that others are saying.

The symptoms are:
-Hard, jerky shifts when manually shifting 1 -->2 under 3k rpm
-Occasional laggy 1-->2 shifts in S mode when flooring it.
-Occasional revving (as if i'm in neutral) in manual mode when slowing down abruptly in 4th gear and then getting back on the accelerator again

[Deschodt]

Will Audi ever do anything about your mechatronics if there are no alerts on the dash?

The symptoms are:
-Hard, jerky shifts when manually shifting 1 -->2 under 3k rpm
-Occasional laggy 1-->2 shifts in S mode when flooring it.
-Occasional revving (as if i'm in neutral) in manual mode when slowing down abruptly in 4th gear and then getting back on the accelerator again

Hmm...Similar worries here, different symptoms... . 2010 with 30K miles, CPO thankfully.
Mine did the laggy jerky shifts in S mode that you describe, and seemed to "jump" and make a "clonk" noise when shifting from Park to Drive (and back to Park and S, to verify what the hell happened, yup still clonking). It did this when parked at my kid's school, then shifted harder than usual on my way home. I attributed it to me not being used to sports mode, but nope. Once home it clonked some more moving back to park. I almost booked a service appointment on the spot, but no warning lights, so..... Odd.. Restarting it 20m later, all was well, and has been ever since... ?!?!? That was a hot day and I had been playing with the paddles a little bit, but nothing crazy. Now I'm waiting for it to happen again or for the dash to light up so I can exercise that CPO warranty on -presumably- the mechatronics, but so far nothing...

I'm almost disappointed I didn't get a code, ironically, I don't like occasional malfunctions - with my luck it'll finally die when the CPO expires...
Kinda annoyed I could not find a local 6MT, but I hear those shift funny too (like a CDV issue). We shall see...

[Kay15]

I have had my mechatronics unit replaced already I still get that revv'ing as if the car is in Neutral. I dont know what it is but I have had the Mechatronics unit replaced, the rear drive shafts replaced, I will see what happens. I have had the DSG re flashed a bunch of times to re learn what is going on. Nothing. Hoping a DSG tune can fix it slightly.

[drob23]

Probably wayyy to early to ask this, but anyone with a 2013 having DSG issues? I do know that they changed some parameters on the shifting logic in the b8.5, and many users reported smoother shifting. But reading all this really makes me wish I went 6MT, guess I'll have to pony up for the extended warranty...not sure how this affects going with a Stasis stg 1 tune.

[VMPhil]

Hmm...Similar worries here, different symptoms... . 2010 with 30K miles, CPO thankfully.
Mine did the laggy jerky shifts in S mode that you describe, and seemed to "jump" and make a "clonk" noise when shifting from Park to Drive (and back to Park and S, to verify what the hell happened, yup still clonking). It did this when parked at my kid's school, then shifted harder than usual on my way home. I attributed it to me not being used to sports mode, but nope. Once home it clonked some more moving back to park. I almost booked a service appointment on the spot, but no warning lights, so..... Odd.. Restarting it 20m later, all was well, and has been ever since... ?!?!? That was a hot day and I had been playing with the paddles a little bit, but nothing crazy. Now I'm waiting for it to happen again or for the dash to light up so I can exercise that CPO warranty on -presumably- the mechatronics, but so far nothing...

I'm almost disappointed I didn't get a code, ironically, I don't like occasional malfunctions - with my luck it'll finally die when the CPO expires...
Kinda annoyed I could not find a local 6MT, but I hear those shift funny too (like a CDV issue). We shall see...

I have had Similar issues in my 2010 S4. No warning lights. Hard thunk when slowing into first gear and hard clonk when shifting to park. It usually happened when stuck in stop and go traffic. Sounds like transmission overheating. Audi service yielded a reflash. It worked great until just recently when the problem reared its ugly head again although it was minor this time. I dont like this. I would rather have a hard failure and get it fixed. no CPO however my car history had the pump and thermostat recall so I should be covered under the extended 6 year 100k mile warranty.

Probably wayyy to early to ask this, but anyone with a 2013 having DSG issues? I do know that they changed some parameters on the shifting logic in the b8.5, and many users reported smoother shifting. But reading all this really makes me wish I went 6MT, guess I'll have to pony up for the extended warranty...not sure how this affects going with a Stasis stg 1 tune.

If you jump back a page or 2, yes there have been a couple of 2013s that have had this issue.

[VMPhil]

after doing some research and thinking back on my own experiences, I believe that the OEM DSG cooling unit is the issue. The reflash is just a band-aid. Replacing the mechatronics unit is what results after multiple over heating sessions.

It goes like this - Transmission overheats, Transmission computer starts messing up the shift algorithms. Eventually Transmission mis-shifts begin to damage mechatronics unit. It is a sound theory anyway.

[OmahaB8]

Does the TSB reflash help with the 1-2 shift issue where it holds the shift way too long and cuts power? If it doesn't fix that then it's not worth it for me to get my GIAC tune removed, go to the dealer for the TSB then have the tune flashed back in.

[VMPhil]

It does. It only does this when run hot. however the problem returned after bumper to bumper traffic. It only happened once tho. after that it was fine.

[OmahaB8]

It does. It only does this when run hot. however the problem returned after bumper to bumper traffic. It only happened once tho. after that it was fine.

What do you consider hot? Operating temperature or flogging the car repeatedly? I never redline the car until it's reached 200F+ any how.

[VMPhil]

What do you consider hot? Operating temperature or flogging the car repeatedly? I never redline the car until it's reached 200F+ any how.

Operating temperature. During stop and go running around the neighborhood on a hot day (never going more than 30mph) was when the problem first appeared for me.

[wwhan]

It seems to act more oddly, more often, in dynamic mode (ADS-light), than the Auto mode. In Auto (compared to Dynamic) it rarely sems to do anything funny.

[Drew855]

I just got the malfunction notification after owning my car for 3 weeks and just over 1,000 miles...but I bought used. Car is a CPO 2011 S4 with 32,000 miles. Brought it into the dealer and they said they will call me tomorrow with a diagnoses. Sounds like it might be the mechatronics. Really won't be happy if my car has to stay in the dealer for weeks while they order parts.

[FBO 335i]

I just got the malfunction notification after owning my car for 3 weeks and just over 1,000 miles...but I bought used. Car is a CPO 2011 S4 with 32,000 miles. Brought it into the dealer and they said they will call me tomorrow with a diagnoses. Sounds like it might be the mechatronics. Really won't be happy if my car has to stay in the dealer for weeks while they order parts.

damn...after 3 weeks of ownership..that's horrible! good thing your car is cpo'ed. good luck and keep us posted on the issue.

[Doc Brown]

Speaking (Writing) off the cuff, and not trying to blame the owners for the issue, stop and go traffic is very hard on a dual clutch transmission. Essentially, it is slipping the clutch near continuously to crawl along. Add 90 degree ambient temperature, hot exhaust from the car in front of you and the AC nice and cool and there is a lot of heat around the drivetrain.

My prior M-DCT M3s had a "walking" option where a quick tap of the gas pedal would engage the clutch fully and walk the car at about 2.5 mph. Thereby not riding the clutch. It was a feature designed specifically to avoid this issue. I think this is further complicated in the Audi with the S-tronic as this transmission is calibrated to feel more like a conventional torque convertor auto. In most situations, one would be hard pressed to distinguish the S-tronic from Tiptronic driving around town. Okay, maybe on hills where it engages from a stop somewhat abruptly. The M-DCT made no attempt to be smooth like a conventional auto. There was no doubt in most any situations that this was a different kind of transmission.

that said, Audi should have designed the transmission to tolerate normal driving conditions in the real world. Or added a "walking" mode, like BMW, to address just this issue.

Whether or not it will make any difference in the long run, I think about the S-tronic when in traffic. If at a light, I will pop it in neutral to take the load off the throw-out bearing. I don't creep along in bumper to bumper. I move in increments - much as I would in a traditional manual. Maybe pissing off those around me as I am not continuously up the ass of the guy in front of me, but less pissed off than they would be if my car shit the bed right there in front of them in traffic and blocked a travel lane.

Only at 7500 miles on my 2013 S4, living in metro PGH, occasionally commuting downtown, and so far no issues.

[theKB]

I just got the malfunction notification after owning my car for 3 weeks and just over 1,000 miles...but I bought used. Car is a CPO 2011 S4 with 32,000 miles. Brought it into the dealer and they said they will call me tomorrow with a diagnoses. Sounds like it might be the mechatronics. Really won't be happy if my car has to stay in the dealer for weeks while they order parts.

parts are typically 10 days out as they have to come from germany. They are vin specific.

Even after my second replacement the car is acting kind of wonky. Really just counting down the days until this thing is gone at this point.

[drob23]

Speaking (Writing) off the cuff, and not trying to blame the owners for the issue, stop and go traffic is very hard on a dual clutch transmission. Essentially, it is slipping the clutch near continuously to crawl along. Add 90 degree ambient temperature, hot exhaust from the car in front of you and the AC nice and cool and there is a lot of heat around the drivetrain.

My prior M-DCT M3s had a "walking" option where a quick tap of the gas pedal would engage the clutch fully and walk the car at about 2.5 mph. Thereby not riding the clutch. It was a feature designed specifically to avoid this issue. I think this is further complicated in the Audi with the S-tronic as this transmission is calibrated to feel more like a conventional torque convertor auto. In most situations, one would be hard pressed to distinguish the S-tronic from Tiptronic driving around town. Okay, maybe on hills where it engages from a stop somewhat abruptly. The M-DCT made no attempt to be smooth like a conventional auto. There was no doubt in most any situations that this was a different kind of transmission.

that said, Audi should have designed the transmission to tolerate normal driving conditions in the real world. Or added a "walking" mode, like BMW, to address just this issue.

Whether or not it will make any difference in the long run, I think about the S-tronic when in traffic. If at a light, I will pop it in neutral to take the load off the throw-out bearing. I don't creep along in bumper to bumper. I move in increments - much as I would in a traditional manual. Maybe pissing off those around me as I am not continuously up the ass of the guy in front of me, but less pissed off than they would be if my car shit the bed right there in front of them in traffic and blocked a travel lane.

Only at 7500 miles on my 2013 S4, living in metro PGH, occasionally commuting downtown, and so far no issues.

Interesting theories, I have also been surprised how well the s-tronic feels while creeping. Do you think this causes additional wear on the clutch packs or stress on the mechatronic unit? I would imagine impulsive forces during hard driving would be worse for wear and tear but that's a total guess. My understanding is the Getrag M-DCT is dry vs the wet DCT's of the VW AG family (PDK, Stronic, golf DCT), so maybe that changes how clutch play works at low speed? I know Ford has had a lot of problems with their powershift Getrag 6-DCT with dry clutch's, which presumably uses lesser quality light weight components.

[Drew855]

I just got a call back from the dealer saying it was the transmissions control module. They said it is apparently a known issue. I asked there was anything mentioned about the mechatronics and he said no. He even went to talk to the tech while I was on the phone who said the mechatronics was fine. Does this sound legit? I don't think I read anything about transmission control modules in this thread.

[theKB]

I just got a call back from the dealer saying it was the transmissions control module. They said it is apparently a known issue. I asked there was anything mentioned about the mechatronics and he said no. He even went to talk to the tech while I was on the phone who said the mechatronics was fine. Does this sound legit? I don't think I read anything about transmission control modules in this thread.

I thought the TCU is the Mechatronics unit??!!

[Drew855]

I was under the same assumption...I am going back to the dealer tomorrow to trade my loaner for a different one and will discuss with the technician. They said the part should arrive tuesday of next week and the car should be ready thursday. We will see about that.

[drob23]

I thought the TCU is the Mechatronics unit??!!

I'd guess the TCU is just an electronics unit while the mechatronic unit comprises the hydraulic actuators that engage/disengage the clutchpacks and mechanically select the gears (what you do with the shifter).

[theKB]

I'd guess the TCU is just an electronics unit while the mechatronic unit comprises the hydraulic actuators that engage/disengage the clutchpacks and mechanically select the gears (what you do with the shifter).

that again doesn't make sense. If you were to get a bench flash TCU upgrade you physically take out the mechatronics and send it to whoever is flashing the software because those actuators are together with the circuit board etc. The Mechatronics is the brain of the transmission.

[riegeraudi]

Love the finish, handling and looks of my 2010 Audi B8 S4.

However, it seems that the more you spend on a car the more time it spends on a tow truck.

1. Water pump failed after only 12 months fixed under warranty.
2. Thermostat failed exactly 12 months to the day after the water pump failure
3. DSG Gearbox Malfunction requiring the mechatronics to be replaced only 3 months out of warranty and 70000 klms. $8000 repair bill with no sympathy from Audi.

This will be the last Audi we ever buy. Can not recommend Audi for reliability.

While the first two was obviously due to some production problems the last one being DSG really is unacceptable. The DSG transmission being a major component should not fail so early in a cars life especially at that cost. I definitely won't be going with any cars with DSG on my next purchase as it looks like Audi can't make it reliable in the long term and are not backing the product. I know when BMW had the HPFP problems they gave the owners a 10year warranty. This is what Audi should do with the DSG with all the failures. This is definitely one area where Audi needs to step up to the plate and back the cars since obviously some of the parts are not well designed.

[riegeraudi]

I was stuck in a traffic jam for about 1.5hours and the DSG transmission was definitely not happy. It started to get loud. Once I put it into neutral it quiet down.

[Drew855]

I spoke to the dealer today and they told me the "transmission control unit" is in fact the mechatronics. They said it should arrive by next week, but based on some responses in this thread I doubt that to be true. Pretty annoying since I have only had my car a week. Oh well, on the bright side, I'll be racking up miles on their car and not mine.

[drob23]

that again doesn't make sense. If you were to get a bench flash TCU upgrade you physically take out the mechatronics and send it to whoever is flashing the software because those actuators are together with the circuit board etc. The Mechatronics is the brain of the transmission.

When I think of the word "mechatronics" I think of robotic's inspired composition of electronic control units with actuators of whatever sort. I presume the actuators in the DCT would be big and buried within the transmission housing. If you are going to bench flash the TCU, I don't understand why you would take out hydraulic actuators. Check out details of the M-DCT by Getrag here (page 30).

But it seems like we are just debating semantics.

[wwhan]

I think the DSG controller is near the sensors & actuators. http://www.audizine.com/forum/showth...ic-%28DL501%29

"The mechatronic system acts as the central gearbox control unit. It combines the electro-hydraulic control unit (actuators), the electronic control unit and some of the sensors into a single unit. On account of the longitudinal configuration, the rpm sensors of both gearbox input shafts and the gear sensor are located on a separate mounting bracket.


The mechatronic system controls, regulates and performs the following functions:

– Adaptation of oil pressure in the hydraulic system to requirements
– Dual clutch regulation
– Clutch cooling regulation
– Shift point selection
– Gearbox control and regulation
– Communication with other control units
– Limp-home programs
– Self-diagnostics"

[drob23]

Cool, thanks for the link. Whenever I think I have any specific knowledge of the DSG (or any subsystem for that matter) I'll remember to look at this and remind myself that I have no f*cking clue how complex this is .

[theKB]

I spoke to the dealer today and they told me the "transmission control unit" is in fact the mechatronics. They said it should arrive by next week, but based on some responses in this thread I doubt that to be true. Pretty annoying since I have only had my car a week. Oh well, on the bright side, I'll be racking up miles on their car and not mine.

tuned/stock and what year? (and if tuned what software)

[Drew855]

2011...bone stock

[Drew855]

Just got a call from the dealer saying my car won't be ready until next week now. They said it is more work than they thought and that they have to pull the entire transmission to replace the mechatronics. Is this true?

[theKB]

Just got a call from the dealer saying my car won't be ready until next week now. They said it is more work than they thought and that they have to pull the entire transmission to replace the mechatronics. Is this true?

yeah it's a big job to replace the mechatronics unit on these cars although it surprises me that the dealership didn't realize the scope of this job. I think it also takes a while to reflash the car etc as well plus re-adaptation etc.

[MailmanOdd]

Mine took a couple weeks to replace when my mechatronics failed @15K miles.

[soundsubs]

looks like I got hit by this too with 2010 S4 @52k miles and APR tune.
My SA said Audi will not cover it because Audi home office claims its "had an ECU flash" based on the VIN.
Its going to be an out-of-warranty replacement of the transmission gearbox and $11,000. Hoping to knock some of this off with the dealer.

[theKB]

looks like I got hit by this too with 2010 S4 @52k miles and APR tune.
My SA said Audi will not cover it because Audi home office claims its "had an ECU flash" based on the VIN.
Its going to be an out-of-warranty replacement of the transmission gearbox and $11,000. Hoping to knock some of this off with the dealer.

Isn't that lovely that your transmission bites the dust 2k miles out of warranty and again hiding behind the tune is simply insane but that's Audi. I am not so sure about it needing a full transmission replacement, and may just be a mechatronics but geez, I would have a hard time stomaching 11 grand because of poor design on audi's/VAG/zF's behalf.

Keep us up to date on this.

Also would love to see a poll posted up with potentially a breakdown by model year and which tuner if not stock.

[tins5]

What were the symptoms of it failing? If they were documented with the dealer prior to it going, maybe they'll help you out. Who knows.