Blown turbo - coolant in oil?

[diman969]

2000 a6 2.7t
I thought that I blew my passanger side turbo about a month ago. My simptoms were lots of smoke from passanger side exhaust pipe and nothing from the driver side. I have a true dual exhaust, no x-pipe. There is absolutelly no boost, when engine running boost gauge shows about -19 hg. Car was parked for almost a month now. Today I started a car to get it to my brothers shop where I'm planning to replace turbo's over the weekends. I took my oil cap of and saw white resedue on it, pulled dip stick and here it is, milky color oil. My question is, could the water be getting inside an engine from the turbo or I blew my head gasket as well???
p.s.
I have white smoke coming from exhaust as soon as I start the car.

[johnkent1212]

Sounds like a bad head gasket and that you have coolant and oil mixing.

[diman969]

thats what I'm thinking, but again if turbo fails and starts leaking oil and water, wouldn't they mix-up on their way through return line?

[Raacerx]

thats what I'm thinking, but again if turbo fails and starts leaking oil and water, wouldn't they mix-up on their way through return line?

Unless the seal busts in the turbo, there shouldn't be any way for oil and coolant to mix. They are on separate lines and systems and separate chambers. A badly blown head gasket can cause white smoke and mixing and is the most common reason for oil in your coolant and vice versa, and if its bad enough, no boost either. Head can be replaced without the engine out, but its certainly more annoying and difficult. Since your worried about the turbo, sounds like an engine pull is a good idea regardless. Even with a blown head gasket, you should be able to make some boost at your MAP sensor. Any codes or anything?

[johnkent1212]

Unless the seal busts in the turbo, there shouldn't be any way for oil and coolant to mix. They are on separate lines and systems and separate chambers. A badly blown head gasket can cause white smoke and mixing and is the most common reason for oil in your coolant and vice versa, and if its bad enough, no boost either. Head can be replaced without the engine out, but its certainly more annoying and difficult. Since your worried about the turbo, sounds like an engine pull is a good idea regardless. Even with a blown head gasket, you should be able to make some boost at your MAP sensor. Any codes or anything?

In additional to a bad head gasket, ie mixing of coolant and oil, is what could have caused the blown turbo....if it is in fact blown.

[Mott Power]

^ agreed, get a compression test, first. if the car was sitting for a while then it could just be moisture build up in the oil which is common.

[diman969]

no codes at all, engine idles fine no shacking or anything like that, and when reving it doesn't hesitate even a bit. Runs like a champ except no boost. when idels I can hear metal to metal noise on a passnager side coming from somewhere around exhaust manifold. On a way to the shop I tried to floor it to see if it gonna boost at all, but needle won't go past 0 at all. I own a car for almost 2 1/2 years and never had any issues with overheating. I got all parts for the k04 swap, but now getting a bit nervous about water in a oil.

[diman969]

its more then a moisture from sitting around, cap is coverd with a thin film of oil/water mix and milky dipstick. I drove maybe total of 3 miles to the shop from parking. When I first had symptoms of turbo failure, I was on a freeway boosting, and out of nowhere white smoke in a rear view mirror. let the gas off, pulled over, checked oil level and it was fine, no water at that time. headed back home, lots of smoke and no boost. smoking from pass side only. everytime I would let gas off there was backfire. had them since did my exhaust, but now it was way louder. so I parked the car until I gathered all parts for turbo swap, now this...

[JDM EJ1 95]

i wouldnt drive the car at all.. even if it was the turbo.. which is not likely..

this is what happens when you drive on a bad head gasket.

just had this with a customer. yes the head actually melted between cylinders and screwed the block up in the same place.


By null at 2010-02-25

[A62TURBO]

breather hose is clogged.

[Raacerx]

i dunno sounds to me like the turbo is blown. If the seal in the turbo blows (which can happens when turbos blow), the main seal between the hot side and the cold side can allow mixing of fluids. How do I know? Cause it happened to me. I am still guessing blown turbo from the sound of things. People blow turbos far more often then head gaskets. You get any sound from it trying to spool? The typical "dentist drill sound" or anything? Turbos can blow from blowing that main seal, they can blow from something hitting the hot or cold side wheels, they can blow from the journal having to much wear and throwing the wheels into their respective housing, or you can simply rip the wheels right off the rotating shaft. Are you getting a primarily coolant smelling smoke, or burning oil smelling smoke? You mention noise too; do you have piggie pipes or aftermarket downpipes? If you have catalytic converters, cut the exhaust before the cats and see if anything falls out. Not "easy", but also pretty cheap for an exhaust shop to do.

[diman969]

i wouldnt drive the car at all.. even if it was the turbo.. which is not likely..

this is what happens when you drive on a bad head gasket.

just had this with a customer. yes the head actually melted between cylinders and screwed the block up in the same place.


By null at 2010-02-25

wow thats some serious damage, well in any case car is at its resting place now. will pull an engine out on the weekends and tear it apart. really hope that its not a head nor head gasket.

[diman969]

i dunno sounds to me like the turbo is blown. If the seal in the turbo blows (which can happens when turbos blow), the main seal between the hot side and the cold side can allow mixing of fluids. How do I know? Cause it happened to me. I am still guessing blown turbo from the sound of things. People blow turbos far more often then head gaskets. You get any sound from it trying to spool? The typical "dentist drill sound" or anything? Turbos can blow from blowing that main seal, they can blow from something hitting the hot or cold side wheels, they can blow from the journal having to much wear and throwing the wheels into their respective housing, or you can simply rip the wheels right off the rotating shaft. Are you getting a primarily coolant smelling smoke, or burning oil smelling smoke? You mention noise too; do you have piggie pipes or aftermarket downpipes? If you have catalytic converters, cut the exhaust before the cats and see if anything falls out. Not "easy", but also pretty cheap for an exhaust shop to do.

I'm running SSAC downpipes, no cats and straight pipe to GMG mufflers. I'm chipped right from the point when I bought the car and probabelly drove around 40k by now. Can't really tell anything about dentist drill sound. When I was trying to boost it, I was getting loud rattle noise, sounded like a nut in a metal can. I never heard dentist drill sound coming from the turbos prior to that day, but again my exhaust is pretty loud especially at WOT. When I was reving it at idle I heard whistle sound but always thought that its normal w/ downpipes . I was getting burning smell at first now its like burning plastic smell or something like that, it smokes when its cold as well. when engine idles there is still rattle noise around pass. exhaust mani but not as bad, if it idles for 5 min w/o reving sound might stop for a min or two and then start again.

[A62TURBO]

the rattle is probably a loose heat shield, as far as the burning smell goes it can be a few things. The fact that you're not getting boost makes me think it's something serious.

[diman969]

the rattle is probably a loose heat shield, as far as the burning smell goes it can be a few things. The fact that you're not getting boost makes me think it's something serious.

I strongly doubt that the sound I'm getting is my heat shields, I modified them and secured them pretty good when did my clutch few month ago. And again sound started right after white somke in a rear view mirror.

[CrazyRobCustoms]

Oil cooler could be mixing also, I see alot of them go bad...

[diman969]

Oil cooler could be mixing also, I see alot of them go bad...

will look into it when gonna take everything apart
thx for the input

[wdbdy2000s4]

Probly head gasket, breather hose, or oil cooler as previously noted. If your turbos are shot your lower intercooler hoses should have oil pools.

[diman969]

Correct me if I'm wrong, I don't know wether its same way on audi but on my bmw, when headgasket went car had a rough idle. And was hesitating when reving it. In any case I will try to start tearing it apart today. Probabely first thing would be pass side downpipe and lower ic hose. Will keep u posted w/ pictures of the progress

[boomerro]

coolant in oil=blown head gasket, i guarantee it.

[DxC]

coolant in oil=blown head gasket, i guarantee it.

possible, but not probable.

i say its a blown turbo where the seals are mixing. i just dealt with this issue last wknd. oil came out looking like chocolate milk, and its from the turbo being blown badly

[julex]

If turbo wheels and shaft detach, it is possible for housing to get damaged and allow for mixing of fluids.

When one turbo fails, the other one works overtime but it can't generate any visible boost since the air backs out thru bi-pipe back to blown turbo, then to y-pipe and re-enters the good turbo's y-pipe section again. Essentially you are spinning air in place never generating any tangible pressure. What's even worse, the good turbo is spinning out of control since wastegate is not longer regulating the guy due to lack of pressure in the system...

As to the banging sounds... it could be broken off hot side turbine or its pieces rather. Remember that it gets hit by high velocity exhaust gases now so it is natural for it to rattle like crazy.

[A62TURBO]

Correct me if I'm wrong, I don't know wether its same way on audi but on my bmw, when headgasket went car had a rough idle. And was hesitating when reving it. In any case I will try to start tearing it apart today. Probabely first thing would be pass side downpipe and lower ic hose. Will keep u posted w/ pictures of the progress

Not necessarily, it depends where the head gasket fails.

[diman969]

ok here is some update, not much but something. got off work pretty late to do any work today, but stoped by the shop anyway. looked inside my pass side muffler and here is what I found in there

[lbs4]

dxc is probably right, my oil was very mixed with coolant, it looked like a bad head gasket but we went ahead and just changed the turbo out hoping that was the cause since we didnt break the motor down to check and thats all it was. the turbo blew the seals wernt working and they were mixing the fluids inside the housing.

[Raacerx]

possible, but not probable.

i say its a blown turbo where the seals are mixing. i just dealt with this issue last wknd. oil came out looking like chocolate milk, and its from the turbo being blown badly

Like I also said before, I agree with DxC. You can get a mix from a blown turbo. Mooseimage, a forum member on here, has plenty of pictures of this and his head gaskets are just find and the only thing wrong was that he blew a turbo seal and had to drive it home a couple hours. He got lots of mixing as well. The more you drive and idle it, the more it will mix.

If you pull everything apart and it is not the turbo, I will send the OP $10... if there are no wheels or no shaft or things are totally destroyed in there, there will be no abnormal sound or dentist drill sound. The dentist drill sound is from vibration (either from a wheel losing blades and being off balance or the journal bearing having to much play, etc). I agree it can be hard to hear it with SSAC downpipes.

[lbs4]

the picture upload didnt work.

[diman969]

clicky

[lbs4]

hmmm clicky isnt working either? it seems a bit harder to upload picutres since they upgraded the forum imo

[diman969]

[diman969]

here we go, finally

[lbs4]

ooooo, is that a little mixture of coolant oil mix at the end of the exhaust? which ever side exhaust that is pull your intercooler hose off and its probably filled with oil also, either way it looks like its from our bad turbo. i think if you just go ahead and change them out you'll be fine. are you going to go with for turbos?

[diman969]

i picked up a set of rp k04 turbos from one of the guys here on az about 2 weeks ago, was waiting on intake pipes, valve cover gasket and some other stuff. Figured that might as well do all at once and forget about it for some time. But after getting car to the shop and checking oil cap with a dip stick got a bit conserned that its not just the turbos. Well now, I do feel relief even w/o taking the IC hose and downpipe off. Well, will be tearing it apart tomorrow 8 am. Will keep posting pics of the progress on the evening bases.

[lbs4]

yea i think ull be fine. when i did mine i just about shit my pants when i saw that and i wouldnt have been able to get the parts i needed becuase of the weeked so just installed the turbos alone and the car is running awsome. hopefully eveyrthin goes good!

[Das General]

I had the same problem, pulled the motor to fix a headgasket. When I pulled the turbos off, one of them was blown. Some fools said it was my tune, guess it isn't...

Oh and my heads were pulled off of the car, they were fine, gaskets included.

[diman969]

i'm sure hope its just the turbo. kinda feel bit paranoid because of this. well guess I'll know for sure tomorrow morning...
thx for the input

[julex]

It is a turbo, gaskets blew and now oil is squirting everywhere, out the exhaust and into ICs... Not fun but hey, better than blown gasket.

[diman969]

indeed, especially that exectly what I was ready for, parts wise. and even thinking about head gasket replacement makes me nervous

[diman969]

Ok, here we go. Started taking everything apart today. Didn't pull the motor out, kinda got a late start, but got up to the pass side turbo. Pulled the downpipe, and tried to feel the turbine wheel, and there is none. Turbine wheel on a hot side is missing, no shaft as well, guess it shifted all the way to the pressure side.
Will post pictures later.

[Audiophyle]

Bad turbo or not, I find it highly unlikely for a failing turbo to mix coolant & oil together.
Ive worked on plenty of Turbonetic & Garrett CHRAs to know the coolant chambers are 100% isolated from each other as they are cast as completely seperate chambers within the CHRA. I really doubt BW CHRAs are any different.
The only thing the seals do in a turbo is keep the oil where the bearings are & out of the turbine & compressor housings.
The only way coolant is getting into the oil at the turbo is if the CHRA has a good sized crack in it.


EDIT: The turbine wheel & shaft are 1 piece, so if the turbine wheel is missing the shaft either broke in half or the lock nut came off on the compressor side & the whole thing came out. The turbine wheel physically will not fit through the turbine housing without extensive damage to the wheel. If its not in the turbo it has to be in the downpipe.