Hub Centric rings not mating with spacers - HELP!

[Rommulus]

I have a set of 8mm H&R spacers that are seized to my hub. Therefore, they must be used, as removing them is really not an option without completely destroying them. They are hub centric and are the type with an angled extension tapering down to the lip. As pictured:


Because of this angled section of the lip, I am not able to properly seat the hub centric rings needed to run my aftermarket wheels. Are there any rings on the market that will mate up with the angle of these spacers?

As stated above, I can't remove the spacers, so that solution is out!
If I put everything together like normal and bolt the wheels down, the rings (plastic) will stretch over the angled part as the wheel is screwed tighter, but I'm sure this will cause them to break at some point... or will it?

Suggestions anyone???


UPDATED 3/11/10

When we left off, It was determined that in order to make my hub rings work with these spacers, I was going to have to do a little bit of Dremeling. My initial thought was to Dremel out the inside of the hub ring at an angle in order for it to slide over the spacer taper.
Upon closer inspection, I came up with an easier solution. I decided to trim off the outside lip of the hubring. This lip is used to keep the hub ring from sinking into the wheel bore. It is at a slight angle and seats itself flush with the inside hub face of the wheel once installed.

Here is a pic of the original hub ring. Notice the small lip around the outside edge.


I actually didn't even use the Dremel or any other tools to trim the lip, but rather pressure! I installed the rings on the spacer lips just as you normally would do and mounted the wheel. As I began to tighten the lugs, the compression between the wheel and the spacer scored a nice clean line around the entire ring. I tightened the wheels all the way down, then loosened them up and tightened them again. Basically using the mating points of the spacer taper and wheel hub to snap off the obstructing plastic lip. It's hard to explain how this works, but you can see how cleanly it broke the lip off.




The flat portion of the spacer lip extends enough to accommodate the entire depth of the hub ring. The ring is fully supported on the spacer lip even though it is not able to be pushed back (over the taper) to the vertical face of the spacer. Now that the plastic lip has been removed from the ring, the wheel is able to freely slide over the hub ring AND spacer taper and mate up flush with the spacer face, just as it normally would. ( NOTE: The center bore for my aftermarket wheels is 66.06 which was big enough to accept the width of the spacer taper. If you have a smaller center bore, this might not work for you.)
Basically, by removing this piece of the hub ring it allows the ring to fit fully inside the wheel hub instead of being stopped at the hub face. We have changed the positioning where the hub ring sits (in terms of how deep it goes into the wheel hub) but that hasn't altered it's function at all.
This was a much easier solution than trying to Dremel out the inside of the hub ring to accommodate the spacer taper.
Wheels have been test fit and everything is seated properly and ready to go! Thank you everyone who contributed to this thread and helped me to find an easy solution to this problem! Hopefully this can help others who might run into this problem!

[grndzro26]

I had this issue too. I just used a dremel to carefully remove the area that was hitting the spacer. Little by little until the ring fit over the spacer

[walky_talky20]

What if you have to change the rotors? They've got to come off of there *somehow*. I'd start with a hammer, then use a chisel as needed. If they are seized that badly it is possible you will break them or the rotor in order to remove them.

[A4SoftWalker]

What spacers are those? My H&Rs dont have that slope on there. Maybe get different spacers and sell those - could be an option. Also try and see if there is a hucentric ring that has that angle to it as well.

[n7plus1]

Try taking them off after a spirited drive. When they are hot/warm, they come off much easier.

[Rommulus]

I had this issue too. I just used a dremel to carefully remove the area that was hitting the spacer. Little by little until the ring fit over the spacer

I'm thinking this is the route I am going to have to take. Did you dremel at an angle to match that of the spacer?

[zz2h33]

i had the same issues. i was told its a problem with 12mm spacers and aftermarket wheels, is that what you are using? i also had to dremel and sand the lip (spacer side) so it will mate. you can go bigger or smaller, but for some reason the 12mm has the problem.

[Rommulus]

^^^ My spacers are 8mm

[MikeWire]

Are you running hubcentric rings on your aftermarket wheels? If so, then you can just change the rings in your wheels to OEM Audi spec which is 57.1mm with the taper.

[CrtchRktRcr]

Try some pb blaster.

[mxrz]

What spacers are those? My H&Rs dont have that slope on there.

H&R has at least three or four different types of 8mm spacers. I have one with no lip, and another one with a small taper lip, but no flat section.

[b6onboost]

The 8mm H&R spacers (pictured) are only designed for OEM Audi/VW wheels. I ran them for a while and they worked fine, but noticed that they will not work with aftermarket wheels or hubrings.

OP: your options are to modify the hubring to sit flush, stick to OEM wheels, or remove the spacer.

[Rommulus]

Are you running hubcentric rings on your aftermarket wheels? If so, then you can just change the rings in your wheels to OEM Audi spec which is 57.1mm with the taper.

Please elaborate. Are you saying Audi makes a hub centric ring that accomdates this taper? I currently have Gorilla 66.06 to 57.1mm hub rings with no taper.

[mxrz]

Please elaborate. Are you saying Audi makes a hub centric ring that accomdates this taper?

Why would Audi do that, all hub rings are aftermarket.

[AvantinUSP]

^^^I think people aren't reading your post carefully.

As far as removing the spacer, try using some penatrant and a rubber mallet.

[Rommulus]

Why would Audi do that, all hub rings are aftermarket.

That's what I thought. I am confused as to what Mikewire is suggesting in his post...

[b6onboost]

Spray on a penetrant, drive around and get the brakes hot, then try to get the spacer off. It will have to come off eventually if you replace your rotors. Worst case, destroy the spacer, they're like $60/pair to replace should you want them again.

[jaynyce]

I removed my Hub rings and had no issue with just the spacers behind the rims

[A4SoftWalker]

H&R has at least three or four different types of 8mm spacers. I have one with no lip, and another one with a small taper lip, but no flat section.

Good to know stuff mxrz...

OP b4 attempting any machining I recommend getting a spare set of hub-centric rings in case u mess up with the dremel... Hope it works out.

[MikeWire]

Please elaborate. Are you saying Audi makes a hub centric ring that accomdates this taper? I currently have Gorilla 66.06 to 57.1mm hub rings with no taper.

OK, so leave your spacers on. Change the hubcentric rings in your aftermarket wheels to Audi tapered rings. 66.06 is a strange bore size, but there may be something out there, or you can get them turned to fit.

I fit my winter wheels by getting Audi hubcentric rings and wobble bolts.

[MikeWire]

I'm not saying Audi makes hubcentric rings BTW, you can get them from various sources.

What I am saying is that you need to find Audi specific rings with the correct taper and fit for your application.

[Rommulus]

OK, so leave your spacers on. Change the hubcentric rings in your aftermarket wheels to Audi tapered rings. 66.06 is a strange bore size, but there may be something out there, or you can get them turned to fit.

I fit my winter wheels by getting Audi hubcentric rings and wobble bolts.

Where can I get Audi Tapered rings? Where did you get the rings for your winters? Thanks for the clarification.

[MikeWire]

I got my set from Raderwerks along with the wobble bolts. Just give them a call and tell them the bore size you need, and they can get you a set if they have them. If they don't have them, you may try your wheels manufacturer, or eBay. I think mine ran me under $20 for the set. And FYI, just get plastic, the alloy sets aren't worth the coin.

What wheels are you running?

[Rommulus]

Thanks for the help MikeWire! I'll see if Raderwerks has what I need. The wheels that I'm trying to run are 20x8.5 Verde Kaos. This pic is them mounted last year before I put on the spacers.

[MikeWire]

Right on, looks good. Let us know what you find!

[b6onboost]

This still does not make sense. The OEM hub (where the wheel sits) does not contain a taper. It is just a strait 57.1mm lip. A 57.1mm hubring is "Audi specific", and will mount perfectly to the OEM hub letting you run aftermarket wheels of a different center bore.

The problem is that an Audi specific hubring is not designed for an aftermarket spacer with a taper. The OEM wheels contain a female taper, so they can sit flush against the spacer and still catch the lip. However most aftermarket wheels, and hubrings, are flat on the hubside, so they cannot sit flush against a spacer with a taper.

I'm not saying Audi makes hubcentric rings BTW, you can get them from various sources.

What I am saying is that you need to find Audi specific rings with the correct taper and fit for your application.

[mxrz]

This is exactly why I made my self these... Hub centric AND wheel centric (fits both my summer Volk TE37's and winter ASA AR2's). No need to mess with rings.

[VMRWheels]

Try some pb blaster.

+1, PB Blaster is great, it's always come through for me. Spray some on and let it sit overnight, hopefully it'll loosen up the spacers for you.

[MikeWire]

This still does not make sense. The OEM hub (where the wheel sits) does not contain a taper. It is just a strait 57.1mm lip. A 57.1mm hubring is "Audi specific", and will mount perfectly to the OEM hub letting you run aftermarket wheels of a different center bore.

The problem is that an Audi specific hubring is not designed for an aftermarket spacer with a taper. The OEM wheels contain a female taper, so they can sit flush against the spacer and still catch the lip. However most aftermarket wheels, and hubrings, are flat on the hubside, so they cannot sit flush against a spacer with a taper.

I'm not sure what is not making sense, but maybe you don't have the same setup as myself and the OP. The hub assembly does have a small taper at the inside edge of the hub and a 57.1 lip. If you want to run aftermarket wheels (with no spacers), you can run them non-hubcentric or get Audi hubcentric tapered rings for your wheels.

He is running the above ^^ spacers...Audi specific H&R spacers, which are meant to run with OEM wheels or aftermarket wheels with Audi hubcentric rings. What I am suggesting is that he run Audi hubcentric rings in his aftermarket wheels since from his #1 post, does not want (or can't) remove his spacers.

Like I said earlier, right now I am running aftermarket wheels with Audi specific hubcentric rings. I also have 10mm H&R Audi specific spacers for my summer setup in the rear. Both setups are hubcentric.

I tried to find a pic of the taper on the hub, but can't find any decent shots.

[Rommulus]

+1, PB Blaster is great, it's always come through for me. Spray some on and let it sit overnight, hopefully it'll loosen up the spacers for you.

So, are PB Blaster and Penatrant pretty much the same thing? I have never used either. Can I pick them up at Autozone or like stores?

[A4SoftWalker]

So, are PB Blaster and Penatrant pretty much the same thing? I have never used either. Can I pick them up at Autozone or like stores?

Same stuff - pick either one up @ any car parts store or WalMart/Kmart

[b6onboost]

I am holding my hubring, it does have a small taper on the hubside, and fits perfectly on the OEM hub. I had the same H&R 8mm spacers and these audi specific hubrings wouldn't sit flush on them. This is the exact same issue the OP is having. So I'm saying I have the right hubrings for Audi and tried them on the exact same spacer...didn't work.

So what doesn't make sense is how what you are suggesting is different.

I'm not sure what is not making sense, but maybe you don't have the same setup as myself and the OP. The hub assembly does have a small taper at the inside edge of the hub and a 57.1 lip. If you want to run aftermarket wheels (with no spacers), you can run them non-hubcentric or get Audi hubcentric tapered rings for your wheels.

He is running the above ^^ spacers...Audi specific H&R spacers, which are meant to run with OEM wheels or aftermarket wheels with Audi hubcentric rings. What I am suggesting is that he run Audi hubcentric rings in his aftermarket wheels since from his #1 post, does not want (or can't) remove his spacers.

Like I said earlier, right now I am running aftermarket wheels with Audi specific hubcentric rings. I also have 10mm H&R Audi specific spacers for my summer setup in the rear. Both setups are hubcentric.

I tried to find a pic of the taper on the hub, but can't find any decent shots.

[MikeWire]

I am holding my hubring, it does have a small taper on the hubside, and fits perfectly on the OEM hub. I had the same H&R 8mm spacers and these audi specific hubrings wouldn't sit flush on them. This is the exact same issue the OP is having. So I'm saying I have the right hubrings for Audi and tried them on the exact same spacer...didn't work.

So what doesn't make sense is how what you are suggesting is different.

My understanding was that the non tapered hubcentric rings were the issue, but b6onboost I totally understand what you mean now, and I apologize for not understanding you correctly. I had to get a visual on what you were explaining so I went out and pulled my wheel off to take a look:


Spacer (10mm):



Hubcentric ring (57.1 -> 73.1 w/ Audi taper):



Both spacer and hubcentric ring - illustrates the gap between the parts:



So, could the OP just dremel or have a machine shop widen the taper?

The best solution is to pull the spacers I suppose.

[b6onboost]

^ Exactly. I applaud your effort to pull the wheel and provide pics. See many H&R and ECS spacers are for OEM wheels only, and the pics above illustrate why.

Options are to dremel the hubring to fit or remove the spacers.

[grndzro26]

I'm thinking this is the route I am going to have to take. Did you dremel at an angle to match that of the spacer?

Yes i tried to keep the same angle as the spacers. I dremeled then sanded by hand to smooth it out.

[Rommulus]

Mikewire, those pics display exactly what I am dealing with! My hubrings do have that slight taper, it's just not as much as the taper on the spacers. Thank you all for your advice and help with this matter. Looks like I'll be getting the Dremel out this weekend! Thankfully I only have to do this for 2 wheels (rears).

[MikeWire]

Right on! Good thing you have a dremel.

I wasn't aware of that spacer/hubring issue, so thanks b6onboost for the info. It seems easy to me, but I'm surprised there are no aftermarket hubrings that will fit the OEM wheel spacers.

Keep us updated and ggod luck!

[akaEsCo01]

pb blaster, it will come off

[John@PureMS]

Apply with caution.

You basically want to heat the spacer just enough to expand it. You may want/need to tap the edge of an unused hole in a rotational direction to break it loose, just be careful not to cause any excessive damage that may protrude and keep the wheel from sitting flush.

Most aftermarket wheels with hub rings do not have the same amount of taper as the OE wheels have, and thusly will not fit. You can generally have them machined, or spend a considerable amount of time with a dremel, or you could just go with a bigger spacer. I do NOT recommend running wheels without the centering ring for reasons stated in my link at the bottom. Simply put, the weight of the vehicle will be entirely on the lugs, and not on the hub, where it belongs, and is unsafe.


My spacers writeup can be found here: H&R Spacer Overview

[Rommulus]

SOLUTION FOUND: Please see update to OP!