Carbon Build Up - 2008 Audi A4 3.2L

[Tanner]

There's an engine from Toyota already that incorporates both direct and indirect injection plus it's included in the 2.0L boxer engine in the BRZ/FR-S which I'm currently looking at. Audi's only finally coming around to this with their recent 1.8T in Europe and it'll trickle down eventually to all of their FSI engines.

That patent of coating the backside of the intake valves, not sure how effective it is especially if Audi is now doing indirect injection. I honestly don't think it really worked well in the real world if they are using it in their FSI engines. Cattch cans do help but it won't resolve the issue 100% due to valve overlap.

[Simply Juiced]

I have a b7 a4 3.2Q At with 115k miles on it and I am currently the second owner and the car-facts showed soooo many Audi services but none for injection cleaning should I be worried about cleaning out my valves because I get some hesitation going up the merge ramp onto the highway at 4k RPM's occasionally. Also the CEL is on showing and the code shows something within the intake shut closed.

[West.point1]

I had my 08 done at 102k km which is 63k miles and mine was disgusting inside ! Drove great for couple weeks after now just feels the same but it is still really peppy good throttle response improvement. It's not cheap to have it done right. But it's an audi so do it right !

[vtwinjunkie]

08 a4 2.0T here....63k miles on it and I have never had the carbon buildup issue....Is this primarily a 3.2 issue or are there just as many 2.0T's with the problem? If so....what mileage?

[Roaldtm]

My experience with the FSI engines started with my MKV VW GTI. When I got my GTI it had 111,000 miles, needless to say I had to do the timing belt service right away. After owning the GTI for a few months I began to have the P0101 code when the car was cold. A few visits to the shop and tinkering with it made us look into the carbon deposit issue. The build up was really nasty but after that was done and over with the car it was a complete beast (at the time it was APR stage 2+). After owning the GTI for almost 3 years with no issues and I guess having a mid life crisis I decided that I wanted an Audi.

3 months ago I finally got my A4 Quattro Sline, knowing and loving the 2.0 FSI engine in my GTI it was a no brainier for me to get the Audi(here's where everything went downhill). I got the car with 70,300 miles and while I was test driving it I connected it to my reader and I was able to pull a P0303 code. Thinking the usual: Coil Packs, Spark Plugs, Injectors etc I went ahead and purchased the car from the Ford dealership where they couldn't be happier with getting rid of the Audi. Got in the car thinking that I outsmarted the dealer and that I had already the R8 coil packs at home from the GTI the first thing I did when I got the car was the plugs and coils. With this the car was running smoother and I was a happy guy with my low mileage almost new Audi. Two weeks after that the P0303 code came back... having the extended warranty on the car(for which I paid $3,700) I drove the car to the nearest Audi dealership which is 1 hour 20 minutes away. The dealership said that most likely was an injector so they replaced 1 injector for almost $600 which is messed up because the 4 injectors set are like $430 on any website. Anyway 4 days without a car and I'm back home thinking that everything is good to go, but no! a week after getting the car the P0303 came right back, I called the dealer and asked if they saw any sludge or deposits when they removed the injectors and they said no.

I didn't have time to be without a car and the car was running perfectly fine every time I cleared the CEL so I lasted like that for a month. Last week the car started leaking something(power steering fluid from my AWE aftermarket cooler which came with the inter cooler kit) so I decided to take the car to the dealership again and get both issues fixed. Now I was just told by the guy at the dealership that since the power steering cooler is aftermarket the extended warranty will not cover it(FML but hey I didn't buy the inter cooler so I really don't know how long it had been there) and that after checking the compression, cylinder #3 is not good so they will have to replace either the Cylinder Head (sticking valve) or the whole engine (scorched piston or cylinder wall). This is my experience with the outstanding 2.0 T FSI made by the VAG in both of my VAG cars.

[Audibot]

08 a4 2.0T here....63k miles on it and I have never had the carbon buildup issue....Is this primarily a 3.2 issue or are there just as many 2.0T's with the problem? If so....what mileage?

It's a problem with all direct injection engines that don't have any kind of port injection (i.e., all the 2.0Ts, 3.2s, 4.2 FSI). The naturally aspirated ones have a bigger problem than the forced induction ones, probably because it doesn't get as hot.

I had my 2.0T done at 120k, and OMG did it wake up!

So you probably do have a buildup but not enough to cause codes. I never had any problems unless I went WOT, at which point the CEL would start blinking. Even the guys who built up their engine with W/M injection have buildup issues.

[vtwinjunkie]

I hope I can make it to 120k before having to do it!

It's a problem with all direct injection engines that don't have any kind of port injection (i.e., all the 2.0Ts, 3.2s, 4.2 FSI). The naturally aspirated ones have a bigger problem than the forced induction ones, probably because it doesn't get as hot.

I had my 2.0T done at 120k, and OMG did it wake up!

So you probably do have a buildup but not enough to cause codes. I never had any problems unless I went WOT, at which point the CEL would start blinking. Even the guys who built up their engine with W/M injection have buildup issues.

[TheBlueMartin]

So there is a new oil vapor separator for the older 3.2's that should help reduce the carbon issues we have. Wish I would have seen this before I got mine all back together:

http://www.hengst.de/conpresso/_data...Technology.pdf

http://www.ecstuning.com/Audi-C6_A6-...Emissions/PCV/

The visual difference is the plastic housing of the new part compared to the aluminum housing of the old one.

[jayulzvern]

^ how does this help with buildup? Isn't the problem that there is no fuel/ solvent going past the intake valves? Is there a way to pump some intake cleaner in with the intake air to break up some of the buildup?

[Audibot]

^ how does this help with buildup? Isn't the problem that there is no fuel/ solvent going past the intake valves? Is there a way to pump some intake cleaner in with the intake air to break up some of the buildup?

While this is true, the oil vapor separator would PREVENT (or at least reduce) the oil vapor from reaching the valves, thus reducing carbon buildup. Fuel/solvent over the valves during operation would just help rinse off what is deposited, but since that's not an option (without much modification) on these cars, this would be a more feasible solution.

[TheBlueMartin]

^ how does this help with buildup? Isn't the problem that there is no fuel/ solvent going past the intake valves? Is there a way to pump some intake cleaner in with the intake air to break up some of the buildup?

Where did you think the carbon building up on the valves is coming from?

[West.point1]

Have any of you fellow 3.2ers had problems with your hpfp and can follower?
My 08 3.2 is throwing two codes right now
P0346 - camshaft position sensor
P0087 - fuel rail / system pressure too low

[TheBlueMartin]

Why don't you start a thread somewhere to bring up this HPFP issue? You're not going to get much feedback on the thread that is talking about carbon buildup.

[jimrobbington]

Have any of you fellow 3.2ers had problems with your hpfp and can follower?
My 08 3.2 is throwing two codes right now
P0346 - camshaft position sensor
P0087 - fuel rail / system pressure too low

Short answer, yes. There's even some recalls for it. Search.

[West.point1]

I've tried and dealerships even say there is nothing for my car either...

[jimrobbington]

I've tried and dealerships even say there is nothing for my car either...

That's right. I think the recalls Wes only for years before 08, and for some reason, 08 got left out, even though it still has the same hardware.

[West.point1]

^^ exactly my point !

[steveakatheman]

I have a 07 b7 3.2, has about 125k now. Hasn't thrown any codes yet, should I worry about carbon build up?

[crazyquik22023]

I have a 07 b7 3.2, has about 125k now. Hasn't thrown any codes yet, should I worry about carbon build up?

If you take mostly long trips and use high octane gas there will be less chance of carbon build up. If you take short trips and use lower octane gas the chance is greater. If you start getting misfiring codes its time for a cleaning.

[TheBlueMartin]

If you take mostly long trips and use high octane gas there will be less chance of carbon build up. If you take short trips and use lower octane gas the chance is greater. If you start getting misfiring codes its time for a cleaning.

That's not true at all, I haven't seen a car with over 100k on it without carbon buildup. I commute 35 or more miles each way (mostly highway), take long road trips, and only use premium gas (mostly Costco). I also run 5w40 Castrol Syntec in the summer and 0w40 Mobil1 in the winter. And my valves at 192,000 miles on the ODO:

[oVeRdOsE]

That's not true at all, I haven't seen a car with over 100k on it without carbon buildup. I commute 35 or more miles each way (mostly highway), take long road trips, and only use premium gas (mostly Costco). I also run 5w40 Castrol Syntec in the summer and 0w40 Mobil1 in the summer. And my valves at 192,000 miles on the ODO:

+ 1, octane level has nothing to do with carbon build up.

Even less for direct injection engines.

Octane level is a carbon chain in the fuel that change the flash point. On high octane level, The air/fuel mixture will need more heat to ignite.

If you have dirt build up because of octane, is because you have old car and the ECU can't adjust, then you have pre-detonation, and the air/fuel calculation is bad and you running extra rich on non-direct injection engine. Having all those situation combine, then octane MIGHT influence the engine cleanliness.

[vwjetta1.8t]

I've been getting really poor mileage lately. Would this be an indication that I have carbon build up?

[shahk62]

https://instagram.com/p/BE4BjiLQBR5/


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[Okedokey]

Its really not that hard to clean yourself

[esandes]

It would be great to have a new car, but it seems like all the new cars that I like have direct injection.

exactly. same here. i'd rather have the old fashioned fuel injection.

i thought audi was supposed to be introducing the hybrid fuel/direct injection system. that would help to sweep the intake ports and valves.

[veeray]

Just a question, do the exhaust valves also need to be cleaned? I walnut blasted my intake valves, they were REALLY bad (210k kms), and it took away some issues, outlined in my other thread. Next step is to try and walnut blast the exhaust valves, and someone mentioned they could have been burnt too...

EDIT; Link to my thread

http://www.audizine.com/forum/showth...ighlight=p0301

[Okedokey]

Interesting, thats a good question.

[b7_Andy]

Just a question, do the exhaust valves also need to be cleaned? I walnut blasted my intake valves, they were REALLY bad (210k kms), and it took away some issues, outlined in my other thread. Next step is to try and walnut blast the exhaust valves, and someone mentioned they could have been burnt too...

EDIT; Link to my thread

http://www.audizine.com/forum/showth...ighlight=p0301

The only way to fully remove the exhaust manifold in a 3.2 is to pull the motor. I'm curious if the exhaust valves get buildup, I don't think they would but maybe it's possible.

[veeray]

The only way to fully remove the exhaust manifold in a 3.2 is to pull the motor. I'm curious if the exhaust valves get buildup, I don't think they would but maybe it's possible.

Luckily it's a 2.0t... Im gonna see what I can do over the weekend, I will update my original thread.

[b7_Andy]

Luckily it's a 2.0t... Im gonna see what I can do over the weekend, I will update my original thread.

Ah gotcha, ya I'm interested to see if the exhaust valves have carbon buildup

[veeray]

Before I started to pull the turbo and manifold off. I figured it would be best to do a leakdown test.

But im even more puzzled lol

When 1st cylinder is on tdc, i can hear air coming out of the oil dipstick hole. I move it a little to the right, and air starts coming from the 2nd spark plug hole. Keep moving it and its really hard to work against the air pressure, so im very puzzled.

Did the same thing on 2nd cylinder, got the same result and the 2nd cylinder has no misfires... i dont know whats going on.

[veeray]

New developments in original thread, if you guys could drop some knowledge as to why that is, I would appreciate it greatly. From now, I am going to post there, as this is taken a weird turn aaway from the carbon cleaning. Thanks

http://www.audizine.com/forum/showth...-up?p=11802799

[Audi Junkie]

I have a 2010 Q5 and just got the CEL for secondary air now at 60k. I'm guessing the dealer is going to sell me on a valve cleaning too, in addition to the "covered" SA cleaning.

I never had an issue before, as I do an intake cleaning every Spring, now with the new CRC GDI spray. I suggest taking a look.... http://crcindustries.com/auto/intake-valve-cleaner.php

Made for DI, has 150x the PEA in Techron. Yes it clean the exhaust valves, as the spray process creates an excessively rich engine condition.

The thing is, I don't want to pay the dealer for a BG type cleaning, well not more than $200 let's say. What's involved in a physical cleaning, or what's the process known as....? Just "decarb" doesn't mean much unless it's physical, not chemical. No way I'm paying $600 for that.

I'll check back later.

[Audi Junkie]

Also, I going to rethink letting my wife run 93, as it'll burn more slowly than the 91 which is what the engine is tuned for, specifically the valve timing. I think 93 could cause deposits. Running higher octane is notorious in power equipment for this exact thing....deposits.

[Kingprime]

I've just picked up an 07 3.2 a4 avant 3 weeks ago and my cel started flashing the second day I had the car. My ESP light also came on at the same time. I was on the highway and the car was shuddering and there was reduced power on acceleration. Brought it to the dealership and they changed the fuel injector in cylinder 2. Car ran ok until today. 1500k later and the same problem. I was backing into my driveway when I felt the car start shuddering (misfire?). The esp light came on then the CEL started flashing. Are these the same symptoms that you guys with carbon issues experiencing? Hooked the car up to an OBD2 and getting codes p0202 and p0302.

did you get this sorted out? do you remember what all was wrong and what needed to be fixed? i think ill start with the ignition coil packs and go from there but im experiencing the same issue. thanks for any and all info