DIY: B6 A4 3.0 - Power Steering Noise Fix

[rpetral0]

This issue has been coming up quite a bit and with snow and donuts and dropping temperatures I'm sure it will continue to happen.

The system is pulling air when it gets cold. very common and simple fix on the 3.0...As it gets cold fluid drops cause and the system starts pulling air which makes that obnoxious noise. Two things...fill it up to the top of the m in "MAX" instead of the line, audi recommends this. and use the fix i posted not to long ago.

You'll know this is the problem because after driving the car and hearing that noise, open the p/s reservoir and you'll see a bunch of bubbles on top of the fluid. By the way, audi says on the 3.0 you MUST fill the fluid not to the line it says to fill to but to the top of the word Max, look on the stick you'll know what I mean when you see it, yes this is normal, when it gets cold especially the 3.0 starts really sucking down this fluid and then it pulls air into the lines making that noise. By doing the fix below and toping off the fluid and then driving around, you'll bleed the air out and have a full system again!.

First pull off the 3.0 cover, there's four clips on each corner just pull straight up.


Then you'll be looking at this...


Now if you look at what you just uncovered closely...You will notice a hose with probably a stock audi clamp on the drivers side, as you can see in the pic below. Check this hose for leaks or cracks, my guess is at the end by the clamp there will be a little bit of fluid. Go to the home depot or harbor freight and get a hose clamp that fits around that hose, cut the stock audi one off without cutting the hose, open up the new clamp so you can get it around the hose, then crank it down! Fill up the system to the top of the words and drive it around to bleed out the air, problem solved.

[zz2h33]

+rep to you. good write up

[1RAudiSQ5]

+another one

[Dan1969]

+rep my friend, way to take the initiative! Now can someone move this to the DIY section or put a sticky?

[rpetral0]

sorry I didn't know how to do that/how to go about asking to do that. Thanks for the plus rep and I hope this works out well for everyone!

[nightshutter]

Same issue here. Ill try this when I do a flush

[Synthetik]

I was going to do this same thing when I fix mine tomorrow, you beat me to it.

+rep though.

Also, you might want to add "only mineral based" fluid


Your power steering sounds like this...Click

[MK13]

This is great. Thanks for the post. I was just about to do a search for this problem but decided to look through the first page to see if there were any interesting things to read and this was the third post down. Thanks again.

[yourtoys7]

worked for me, no more wale noice :)

[nightshutter]

Doing this today! I tried uploading a pic of mine but didnt work. Its no nasty. Thanks for the tip

[Charlescrs6]

Anyone have a pic of the factory clamp for that location? I looked at mine and realized I already had a clamp there.. probably from when the pump was replaced a few months back.

[rpetral0]

yeah that's not factory, the factory one is like any other factory hose clamp...I can get you a pic tomorrow but just look at any hose under there and you will see the crappy looking one time use clamps. They're all over things like the evap system :P

[nananana4k]

+rep. this helps me alot.

[autoverruckt]

rpetral0, you are the fvcking man for posting this. I finally replaced the clamp and BAM, the mating whales are gone! I am so stoked I didn't fork over $650 to the dealer for a new PS pump like they f*ckin' recommended. My PS pump works just fine. I got this 2 pack for $1.67 at Lowes. I hope these will work fine under the engine bay? In the write up you said to crank it down...is it possible to have it too cranked? I didn't go as hard as I could but I gave a good crank for sure.



One more thing, in your last pic, what is the skinny fabric-covered hose next to the PS hose? The fabric on mine is pulverizing and wondering if those lines will need replacing.

[dasHotrod]

Thanks for this. Don't have any problems yet. Will be sure to change that clamp soon - don't like the sight of that junk on top.

Here's a pic of the oem clamp.

[rpetral0]

Sorry I didn't respond to this too fast, I think just snug should be fine...I wouldn't worry about cranking the living crap out of it. And yeah I think that stuff on the connection is power steering fluid cause mine was full of that gunk :P

[rpetral0]

One more thing, in your last pic, what is the skinny fabric-covered hose next to the PS hose? The fabric on mine is pulverizing and wondering if those lines will need replacing.

Missed this part earlier, Those are just vacuum hoses connecting two valves on each side of the motor. If yours are fraying and dried out and shrinking I would replace them, very easy to do just pull them off the connector in the center and out of the valves and get a couple pieces of the same size from a dealer or something, mine didn't even charge me. Make sure you get the new ones before that though haha. They are tough to wedge back onto the parts...try sticking the ends of the hoses under really hot water in a sink to allow them to stretch easier to put them on. As someone pointed out on this thread one of mine looked insanely crappy so I just did both of those.

[cabreezy]

rpetral0 is a savior. this extremely simple solution fixed my ps whale sound as well, saving me headaches playing a power steering guessing game. much deserved +rep.

[aqua120]

I was searching on the net to find anyone who had a similar problem to mine. I found what I believe to be rpetral0's audi on youtube regarding a power steering whine noise. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r9k1QGmun78 My car is making the same EXACT noise. Granted it usually does in when the weather gets chiller. I'm going to have my boyfriend try to follow the directions you gave about changing the clamp. I also noticed my PS fluid is a sliver below max. So I guess I'm going to purchase PS fluid, and add more. I know for a fact it has no leaks! Hopefully your technique works! It's kind of my last resort before going to the dealer.

[ayfour]

Im sorry to bump an old thread, but im absolutely fed up with this noise. I cant take it anymore.

I did both clamps on this hose about a month ago, it was dead quite for weeks, then all the sudden it came back. I took it to a mechanic who tightened all the clamps and added some stop leak, again it was quite for about a week. I just had my timing belt done and the noise is back louder than ever.

What else can I do??? Im desperate here. Audi just says put a new pump in... but the pump is NOT dead.. when the fluid warms up after about 20 mins of driving its quite again.

Anyone have any other suggestions?

[patchelect]

My car has decided to moan and groan the loudest it has ever done yesterday. I had confirmed that the fluid was filled according to plan. I had already done the hose clamp install thinking that I solved the problem since she got quiet as a mouse for a day. The temps last night weren't all that bad, low 50's, but making a turn into my driveway the groaning was loud enough to wake the dead, and the steering was really hard, proving to me that there is a serious hydraulic issue. As others have posted, I am quite reluctant to take the car to anyone since the "replace the pump and/or rack" recommendation is the likely result. It's easy to spend my money, and since this has put me off this car so much, I really don't want to drop another grand or more into repairs necessary due to some poor design.

Someone had suggested a complete fluid change. It was apparently done on another non Audi product and shut the system up, but that car was 12 years old with a somewhat unknown maintenance history. Although I didn't buy this car new, it only had 12K on it when I bought it 3+ years ago and now it has 46K.

[GP2001]

I began having this exact same issue two days ago. I went ahead and added that clamp and also filled up the fluid to the m in max. However the noise did not go away. I still have foamy fluid in the reservoir even after bleeding it. My pump sounds god awful,almost like its grinding,think it may be toast? Also,I notice the other clamp on that hose also has fluid around it. Should I go ahead and replace the pump? Should I try replacing the fluid completely? When I was bleeding the system I was taking a look in the reservoir while someone else was turning the wheel, and I noticed that the fluid doesn't really move at all, just a tiny "wave" in the fluid once it hits "lock" on each side. Is the fluid supposed to be sucked down? The pump sounded like it didn't have fluid in it, even though the reservoir is full, is it possible that the screen in the reservoir is clogged, possibly prohibiting fluid from going through the system into the pump? I'm not sure what your supposed to see happen when you look in the reservoir while the power steering pump is active...

[Synthetik]

I began having this exact same issue two days ago. I went ahead and added that clamp and also filled up the fluid to the m in max. However the noise did not go away. I still have foamy fluid in the reservoir even after bleeding it. My pump sounds god awful,almost like its grinding,think it may be toast? Also,I notice the other clamp on that hose also has fluid around it. Should I go ahead and replace the pump? Should I try replacing the fluid completely? When I was bleeding the system I was taking a look in the reservoir while someone else was turning the wheel, and I noticed that the fluid doesn't really move at all, just a tiny "wave" in the fluid once it hits "lock" on each side. Is the fluid supposed to be sucked down? The pump sounded like it didn't have fluid in it, even though the reservoir is full, is it possible that the screen in the reservoir is clogged, possibly prohibiting fluid from going through the system into the pump? I'm not sure what your supposed to see happen when you look in the reservoir while the power steering pump is active...

Before you spend money on the pump, try flushing the fluid. As far as the reservoir level, I never noticed a change either. But the clamp thing fixed mine, until recently when it was just a little loose, I cranked it tighter and the noises went away. Are you getting noises like in the video, or something worse?

[T0M3K]

My power steering started making noises too. Especially on cold engine, I can make turn all the way and rpms can drop badly enough to sound like if it's about to stall. Also weird clunk can be heard. Makes me think it's a rack-pinion on its way out, but I have difficulties in reproducing it. The whine I got used to, 2200 rpm seems to be its magic number. I was thinking of doing a fluid flush. Is there a procedure for that or just try to drain reservour as much as possible and fill it back up?

[GP2001]

Before you spend money on the pump, try flushing the fluid. As far as the reservoir level, I never noticed a change either. But the clamp thing fixed mine, until recently when it was just a little loose, I cranked it tighter and the noises went away. Are you getting noises like in the video, or something worse?

OK I will try a fluid flush. I already bought a quart of the hydraulic mineral fluid, what is the capacity for this vehicle? Do you know if I need more than a quart? If I tighten the clamp any tighter I think it will start to rip through the rubber on the hose. However, the other end of the hose there is the exact same type of clamp, and I can see some fresh fluid around it. I am assuming this could just as well be a problem, but I cant for the life of me figure out how to access it without taking a bunch of stuff off the car. Damn Audi... My noises are similar to the one in the video when you sit in the car, but when I poked my head under the hood while bleeding it, I noticed grinding type sounds coming from my pump. It sounded like there was no fluid in it. Power steering still works fine, just sounds god awful.

[jonan]

My power steering started making noises too. Especially on cold engine, I can make turn all the way and rpms can drop badly enough to sound like if it's about to stall. Also weird clunk can be heard. Makes me think it's a rack-pinion on its way out, but I have difficulties in reproducing it. The whine I got used to, 2200 rpm seems to be its magic number. I was thinking of doing a fluid flush. Is there a procedure for that or just try to drain reservour as much as possible and fill it back up?

if the clunk sounds like a bone popping out of its socket, it could be your control arms...the bushings in mine are shot and sound like my shoulder when it pops out of my joint while i'm doing jumping jacks...

[Synthetik]

OK I will try a fluid flush. I already bought a quart of the hydraulic mineral fluid, what is the capacity for this vehicle? Do you know if I need more than a quart? If I tighten the clamp any tighter I think it will start to rip through the rubber on the hose. However, the other end of the hose there is the exact same type of clamp, and I can see some fresh fluid around it. I am assuming this could just as well be a problem, but I cant for the life of me figure out how to access it without taking a bunch of stuff off the car. Damn Audi... My noises are similar to the one in the video when you sit in the car, but when I poked my head under the hood while bleeding it, I noticed grinding type sounds coming from my pump. It sounded like there was no fluid in it. Power steering still works fine, just sounds god awful.

http://www.audizine.com/forum/showth...luid-flush-DIY

[GP2001]

So I am also confused about the type of fluid to use. There is Pentosin CHF11S and Pentson CHF7.1. The guy at my local auto parts store looked up my car and said that I need CHF7.1 (mineral based hydraulic fluid) and my power steering cap also says to only use mineral fluid. However, the Pentosin website says that my year range Audi uses CHF11S, but that is a synthetic fluid and my cap says mineral.... Should I just stick with CHF7.1? Also, the website says NOT to mix fluids. I added a little bit of CHF7.1 to my car since that is what appears to be required, but I'm nervous the previous owner put something else in there, what could happen from mixing?

[Synthetik]

OEM FTW.

[GP2001]

OEM FTW.

See this is why I am confused. That bottle said do not mix with anything other than CHF 11S. However, CHF 11S is synthetic, and the cap on my 2002 3.0 A4 says mineral fluid ONLY, which is CHF 7.1. So, which one is it?

I am relatively torn right now as to what step I should take first. I need to spend $50 on fluid just to replace it to see if that helps. If it doesn't (which I dont think it will, my pump sounds nasty), thats a waste of $50, since when I replace the pump I will need all new fluid again. The pump is only $180, so if I just go ahead and replace that right away I will have the peace of mind of having a new pump, since mine is probably almost dead anyway if it isn't already, and I wouldnt have wasted $50 in fluid,assuming that doesnt fix it. I just wish I knew that my pump was toast for sure, and it wasn't so much of a guessing game. Balls.

[patchelect]

I did shut the pump up a few weeks back by REALLY tightening the clamp. In fact until this thread resurfaced I had forgotten about it altogether so I guess that's a good thing. It turns out the fluid I needed was the same product I had purchased to solve a convertible top low fluid problem on a previously owned Jaguar XK8.

[road_tripper]

See this is why I am confused. That bottle said do not mix with anything other than CHF 11S. However, CHF 11S is synthetic, and the cap on my 2002 3.0 A4 says mineral fluid ONLY, which is CHF 7.1. So, which one is it?

I am relatively torn right now as to what step I should take first. I need to spend $50 on fluid just to replace it to see if that helps. If it doesn't (which I dont think it will, my pump sounds nasty), thats a waste of $50, since when I replace the pump I will need all new fluid again. The pump is only $180, so if I just go ahead and replace that right away I will have the peace of mind of having a new pump, since mine is probably almost dead anyway if it isn't already, and I wouldnt have wasted $50 in fluid,assuming that doesnt fix it. I just wish I knew that my pump was toast for sure, and it wasn't so much of a guessing game. Balls.

I don't know what gold-plated fluid is $50? the stuff from the dealer isn't that much, and you only need 1 pint if you totally drain and refill.

I removed the hoses from the reservoir, let everything drain out, then turned wheel lock-to-lock (with engine off) until no more fluid dripped out of the hoses.

Hooked the hoses back up, filled the reservoir, then did the bentley procedure:

start engine, let run a few seconds, turn off engine, turn steering wheel lock-to-lock 10 times, if fluid level dropped, add more and repeat

[GP2001]

I don't know what gold-plated fluid is $50? the stuff from the dealer isn't that much, and you only need 1 pint if you totally drain and refill.

I removed the hoses from the reservoir, let everything drain out, then turned wheel lock-to-lock (with engine off) until no more fluid dripped out of the hoses.

Hooked the hoses back up, filled the reservoir, then did the bentley procedure:

start engine, let run a few seconds, turn off engine, turn steering wheel lock-to-lock 10 times, if fluid level dropped, add more and repeat

No gold plated fluid, the hydraulic mineral fluid is available by me for $25 a liter, and the DIY power steering flush thread for the 3.0 indicates that the system takes 1.5 liters of fluid. So thats two bottles, $25 each, therefore $50.

Still confused as to what the proper fluid is, since the Audi fluid is different than what the cap on my reservoir says...

[JEENYUS]

No gold plated fluid, the hydraulic mineral fluid is available by me for $25 a liter, and the DIY power steering flush thread for the 3.0 indicates that the system takes 1.5 liters of fluid. So thats two bottles, $25 each, therefore $50.

Still confused as to what the proper fluid is, since the Audi fluid is different than what the cap on my reservoir says...

if you buy it from the deal er you are going to be just fine. I have been using that for over a year now and just fill it when it gets a little low.

edit: i actually think the audi dealer only sells mineral hydrolic fluid.

[87supraman]

So I am also confused about the type of fluid to use. There is Pentosin CHF11S and Pentson CHF7.1. The guy at my local auto parts store looked up my car and said that I need CHF7.1 (mineral based hydraulic fluid) and my power steering cap also says to only use mineral fluid. However, the Pentosin website says that my year range Audi uses CHF11S, but that is a synthetic fluid and my cap says mineral.... Should I just stick with CHF7.1? Also, the website says NOT to mix fluids. I added a little bit of CHF7.1 to my car since that is what appears to be required, but I'm nervous the previous owner put something else in there, what could happen from mixing?

Saw this while surf searching...

http://m.audizine.com/forum/showthre...eak?styleid=12


old guy 06-28-2010 07:24 PM #6
Originally Posted by sixers229:
I was to make sure it wont damage any other part of the steering system...i.e. the power steering pump.

The audi uses a CHF type fluid and I do not believe it is compatible with the ATF which is what Lucas Stop Leak is.
Excellent point, but I believe the two are compatible. Here is some info from Blauparts on the subject:


Can You Mix CHF 7.1 Non-Synthetic Mineral Base Hydraulic Fluid With CHF 11S Synthetic Mineral Base Audi Hydraulic Fluid?


There has been a good measure of controversy over this question. Here is what our own experience shows. Over the last decade we've had no compatibility problems mixing the CHF 7.1 non-synthetic mineral base fluid and the CHF 11S synthetic based Audi hydraulic fluid. No problems with our own vehicles and no problems with our customers vehicles. Our success in mixing the 2 Audi hydraulic fluids coincides with the Audi tech bulletin 48-89-T07 issued in November 1989. It states "The new [synthetic Pentosin 11S] and old hydraulic fluid [non-synthetic Pentosin 7.1] can be mixed if necessary ... the part number [remains] unchanged." So according to Audi, you can mix the 2 Audi hydraulic fluids. Even though the composition of the fluid changed (CHF 11S synthetic mineral oil vs CHF 7.1 non-synthetic mineral oil), Audi didn't even change the part number. All 1990 - on Audi models have come filled from the factory with the synthetic CHF 11S Audi hydraulic fluid (G002000). Please Note: Never mix generic hydraulic fluid or other fluid with the CHF 7.1 or CHF 11S Audi hydraulic fluid (G002000). If you or someone else did, flush the Audi hydraulic fluid as described below.

[GP2001]

Saw this while surf searching...

http://m.audizine.com/forum/showthre...eak?styleid=12

old guy 06-28-2010 07:24 PM #6
Originally Posted by sixers229:
I was to make sure it wont damage any other part of the steering system...i.e. the power steering pump.

The audi uses a CHF type fluid and I do not believe it is compatible with the ATF which is what Lucas Stop Leak is.
Excellent point, but I believe the two are compatible. Here is some info from Blauparts on the subject:


Can You Mix CHF 7.1 Non-Synthetic Mineral Base Hydraulic Fluid With CHF 11S Synthetic Mineral Base Audi Hydraulic Fluid?


There has been a good measure of controversy over this question. Here is what our own experience shows. Over the last decade we've had no compatibility problems mixing the CHF 7.1 non-synthetic mineral base fluid and the CHF 11S synthetic based Audi hydraulic fluid. No problems with our own vehicles and no problems with our customers vehicles. Our success in mixing the 2 Audi hydraulic fluids coincides with the Audi tech bulletin 48-89-T07 issued in November 1989. It states "The new [synthetic Pentosin 11S] and old hydraulic fluid [non-synthetic Pentosin 7.1] can be mixed if necessary ... the part number [remains] unchanged." So according to Audi, you can mix the 2 Audi hydraulic fluids. Even though the composition of the fluid changed (CHF 11S synthetic mineral oil vs CHF 7.1 non-synthetic mineral oil), Audi didn't even change the part number. All 1990 - on Audi models have come filled from the factory with the synthetic CHF 11S Audi hydraulic fluid (G002000). Please Note: Never mix generic hydraulic fluid or other fluid with the CHF 7.1 or CHF 11S Audi hydraulic fluid (G002000). If you or someone else did, flush the Audi hydraulic fluid as described below.

Awesome, thanks! I still find it odd that Audi now uses a synthetic CHF 11S, but the cap says mineral fluid only *shrugs shoulds*

[chokung]

Work perfect, now my car stop 'whining' when I get into the parking spot, parallel etc that it used to make a bit noise before.

My case:
I chk the clamp, someone already put it on so I double chk and tighten it a bit then top up the CHF11S over the 'max' instead of at the line as before. Bam, it quite! THANKS A BUNCH

[a4reetz]

I have a 2005 B6 A4 3.0 L V6 with 96k on it.

I dropped my car off at the shop to perform the timing belt service.

They completed that and also replaced the power steering hose that they said had a crack in it and was sucking air (I had heard the whale groaning noise in the past and fixed it by adding power steering fluid to the top of the MAX).

Then they said they couldn't get the power steering system to prime and replaced the power steering pump.

I got the car back and the whales are gone, but now have no power steering except for random spurts of it, which feels quite dangerous when driving actually.

Anyone know what this could be?

[ayfour]

bring it back, if they did the replacement and it doesnt work its not your problem.

[a4reetz]

Brought it back. They diagnosed it as a bad power steering pump pressure release valve and are installing a new pump tomorrow.