Difference between 2.8 VW VR6 and Audi 2.8 A4 motor?

[reloadmylove]

Alright, I apologize if this has already been asked...and I know I've seen SEVERAL other posts of people trying to turbo their 2.8L v6, and how others hate on us 2.8 owners and say we should've gone with a 1.8T....But I'd like to do something different. I've considered the 2.7 Biturbo w/ 6 speed swap from an S4 into my car, but I began to wonder if anyone knew if there was a big difference between the VW 2.8L that was out at the same time Audi was using the 2.8L in the A4's?? They make turbo kits everywhere for the 2.8 vr6 motors, and was just wondering if anyone has tried it or had any idea how different the manifolds were from the VR6 to the 2.8 in the A4...Thanks for any help...if I had to I know a couple of people in my town who could fabricate me a flange for my stock manifolds to turbo or even twin turbo it my 2.8 A4, but I figured I would ask about this first...Thank you again in advance!!

[flynnr]

vr6 turbo is like an inline 6... all the intake ports and exhaust ports are the same side, respectively, and therefore can be easily single turbo'd... you have a v6, which is offset like 60-90 degrees (no clue) and so the intakes are on opposite side of the engine

[reloadmylove]

Ok thanks a lot man, I apologize for my ignorance...I've been a Honda guy since I got my license, and they were so straightforward and easy to tweak and tune, I just picked up my A4 last month and I'm still trying to learn..I see they make a supercharger kit for my motor but I'd still like to try and go turbo if possible, I'll just have to have a manifold fabricated from a stock one, and get a bigger fuel pump and injectors...I've heard that the compression in this motor isnt very good for turbo, but I think I would be safe at around 7psi

[AudiTechS4]

vr6 turbo is like an inline 6... all the intake ports and exhaust ports are the same side, respectively, and therefore can be easily single turbo'd... you have a v6, which is offset like 60-90 degrees (no clue) and so the intakes are on opposite side of the engine

I think he means the exhausts are on opposite sides of the motor.

And to the OP. Really ... your asking this question. did you even look at the turbo kits offered for the vr6 and say hmm why is there only 1 manifold with 6 ports?if you dont know the difference in a v6 vs a vr6 then why are you trying to turbo your car. if it was worth turbocharging it would be all over the internet. but no reason to when the 2.7l is already done for you. there is a supercharger for the 2.8 but that's about it.

[flynnr]

exactly yeah sorry about that

[AudiTechS4]

Ok thanks a lot man, I apologize for my ignorance...I've been a Honda guy since I got my license, and they were so straightforward and easy to tweak and tune, I just picked up my A4 last month and I'm still trying to learn..I see they make a supercharger kit for my motor but I'd still like to try and go turbo if possible, I'll just have to have a manifold fabricated from a stock one, and get a bigger fuel pump and injectors...I've heard that the compression in this motor isnt very good for turbo, but I think I would be safe at around 7psi

im sorry man but 1st you have 2 manifolds. Second why are your trying to turbo a motor when a 2.7l was built for turbos? makes no sense. People have a hard enough time dreaming of the big plans on their s4 for a6 with the bi-turbo 2.7l motor. Dont even try to turbo the 2.8. if your really serious about stepping up the power go with the super charger or swap the motor. the 2.8 doesn't have alot of aftermarket potential sand not worth all the hassel of trying to turbo

[llewop_211]

you should check out scaudi.com for info about putting a turbo on your 2.8l

[yung turbo]

well the old 2.8 a4 was actually the vr6 12valve motor but i dont know which year they made the switch but they changed to a 30valve 2.8l v6.

[Spykce]

well the old 2.8 a4 was actually the vr6 12valve motor but i dont know which year they made the switch but they changed to a 30valve 2.8l v6.

This is untrue, no a4 has had a vr6 in it, the tt's do, the a3's do, not a4's. The VR6 was designed to be a latitudinal engine. The 12v was simply a 2 valve per cylinder engine while the 30v is a 5 valve engine.(Ok a few a4's do but have had major work done, like 034's)

[NYEuroTuner]

well the old 2.8 a4 was actually the vr6 12valve motor but i dont know which year they made the switch but they changed to a 30valve 2.8l v6.

No, but in Germany a B5 did actually come with the VR5 motor, so thats why it is now possible for a VR6 12v or 24v VR6 to be installed on your AWD system.

But your 2.8 audi motor in no way relates to the VR6 Mechanically speaking..


However there are a couple guys running 12v VR6's using their stock harness from this audi 2.8...


I suggest you or anyone else that is serious about dropping a VR6 intro their B5 A4/S4 read this ENTIRE thread.

http://www.audizine.com/forum/showthread.php?t=286716

Then once you've read the thread, PM the OP in that thread "ISSAM", He is head of INAEngineering who had a big part in the 034 VR6 time attack car.

[BlkBullitt]

The VR6 is a 15 degree V6 engine where both banks of cylinders actually share the same head.

The 12v and 30v 2.8l V6 engines are both 90 degree V6 engines.

Here's an example (from wiki) showing the difference between a 15 degree (VR) V6 engine and a more traditional 90 degree V6 engine:

[somebody5788]

Ugh... people if you don't know what your saying don't say it.

Like a couple have said the VR6 is a 100% different engine like the diagram shows it is an extreme narrow V (around 15* I believe) It has intake on one side and exhaust on the other and makes it easier to do stuff to like any 4 cylinder or inline 6 (why do you think skylines and supra's have so much easy power? It's not just because they were built well)

As far as turboing. Unless you like having a one off car and you are willing to spend 6k+ just on bolting the turbo's up not including tuning and building the engine then this is not for you. The 2.8 30v has 10.6:1 compression ratio (or 11.6 I kinda forgot....) it would not handle boost very easily just due to that but also there is the fact that it just over all has weak valves and pistons that melt under boost. The supercharger kit is about as far as you want to take it and even then its still 3500 bux. If I can find a JUST the m62 supercharger that PES uses I'm going that way because I've got everything else to bolt it up or its already sourced lol. I was going to try something else but I'm not sure now... the price I was looking at was low and I was just having trouble with it still.

If your looking for something as easy to tune as a Honda then you should get the 1.8t. It's already turbo'd and you can throw an elim kit on a stock engine and make around 300whp easy. Not to mention you can have it going down the road in a matter of 4-8 hours depending on experience.

If you were 100% set on this your best bet would be twin GT25's 100% built heads (2.7 guys use the heads with the cams sometimes so stuff is available) and lower the compression ratio and forged pistons. But at this point you should really have the block drilled for 4 bolt mains instead of the 2 bolt ones. The rods are the same as the S4. And your still stuck on tuning at this point because the 2.8 computer can only be tuned with a flash chip installed and nobody but PES does this and thats for their supercharger kit.

Hope that helps

[b6onboost]

Another main advantage, and reason for the 15deg V design, is that it is a small package. You can have a 2.8-3.2L 6 cylinder motor that is essentially the same size as a 4 clyinder.

[NYEuroTuner]

Another main advantage, and reason for the 15deg V design, is that it is a small package. You can have a 2.8-3.2L 6 cylinder motor that is essentially the same size as a 4 clyinder.

Ding Ding Ding

[B6T]

A VR5 eh? Given that the 20V Audi 5 cylinder and the VR6 sound pretty good, I bet that engine sounds incredible being a combination of both.

[terraflata]

I have seen S4 engines for sale for about 1400. With your 2.8 its a striaght bolt on. Well maybe not, but someone will correct me if I am wrong. For the cost of the engine, and work to install it, I am sure it comes up cheaper than just buying a supercharger for the 2.8

2.8 = Fail for power. 2.7t = Fail if you don't have a garage and a lift.

[Spykce]

A VR5 eh? Given that the 20V Audi 5 cylinder and the VR6 sound pretty good, I bet that engine sounds incredible being a combination of both.

I miss both my gti vr6 and audi coupe dearly simply for the sounds they made...

Maybe someday i'll have a vr6 a4, I just love the b5 a4 body...

[RockyMountainB5]

Why not supercharge that bad-boy?
Your low end torque will make all us 1.8 guys all jealous and weepy.
Besides, you are gonna spend $4k on a 1.8t trying to make it make 300 horse anyway...

[qttroking]

well the old 2.8 a4 was actually the vr6 12valve motor but i dont know which year they made the switch but they changed to a 30valve 2.8l v6.

wait wut? I vote ban.

[NYEuroTuner]

Maybe someday i'll have a vr6 a4, I just love the b5 a4 body...

x2 B5 is sexy as hell..

[somebody5788]

wait wut? I vote ban.

I'm with the noob here lol'z!

[somebody5788]

Why not supercharge that bad-boy?
Your low end torque will make all us 1.8 guys all jealous and weepy.
Besides, you are gonna spend $4k on a 1.8t trying to make it make 300 horse anyway...

Or do a combination of supercharging and installing a 1.8t trans like I'm slowly working on. Lower gearing torque + supercharger torque = omfg lmao. Least I think so.

[somebody5788]

And someone prove that theres a VR5.... I doubt it but too lazy to prove it wrong. Audi used the I5 for years though so did VW. And VW just released a 2.5l 5 cylinder a couple of years ago.

[qttroking]

And someone prove that theres a VR5.... I doubt it but too lazy to prove it wrong. Audi used the I5 for years though so did VW. And VW just released a 2.5l 5 cylinder a couple of years ago.

Search n00b.

http://www.carfolio.com/specificatio...car/?car=16973
http://www.topgear.com/UK/volkswagen...est/estate-vr5

[reloadmylove]

Would it be possible to bolt up the exhaust manifolds and stock turbos from an s4 or rs4 to the 2.8L motor or is that all different too? I guess I could just go with the PES supercharger kit, its really not a bad idea, I guess I just kind of wanted to have room to expand, after awhile the 300hp offered with the supercharger just wont seem like enough I'm afraid...

[mholme]

You don't want to bolt on anything from an S4 engine to an A4 engine. It's far from a bolt on project.

[BlkBullitt]

I have seen S4 engines for sale for about 1400. With your 2.8 its a striaght bolt on. Well maybe not, but someone will correct me if I am wrong. For the cost of the engine, and work to install it, I am sure it comes up cheaper than just buying a supercharger for the 2.8

2.8 = Fail for power. 2.7t = Fail if you don't have a garage and a lift.

Installing the 2.7t into a B5 with a 2.8l is far from a bolt in procedure... you're basically going to have to replace the entire engine and interior wiring harness, ecu, and if you're doing things correctly the clutch, transmission (swap to the 01E), prop shaft, rear end, axles, and suspension uprights. Put simply it's cheaper to just sell the car and buy a B5 S4.

If he wants to keep the 2.8 the PES Supercharger would be much more cost effective in making power then swapping the 2.7t.

Or do a combination of supercharging and installing a 1.8t trans like I'm slowly working on. Lower gearing torque + supercharger torque = omfg lmao. Least I think so.

Just remember you need both the 1.8T transmission and rear end otherwise you'll kill the center differential in the transmission.

[dingguhlbary]

well the old 2.8 a4 was actually the vr6 12valve motor but i dont know which year they made the switch but they changed to a 30valve 2.8l v6.

i know with vw's they changed from the 12v vr6 to the 24v vr6 around 2002.2003. no idea though if that was the same time frame for the audi v6's changing the number of valves.

[onemoremile]

Lots of interesting misinformation in here.

No A4 came with the VR6. As far as I know, it was only used longitudinally in the Cayenne and Touareg. It can be made to fit the Audi chassis but it takes a lot of money and determination to get it done.

The S4 stuff should not be bolted to a normal 2.8 v6. The engine isn't strong enough and it would be a shame to go through all that effort just to blow it all up.

If you want s4 power then get an S4.

The 1.8t transmission has the same rear diff as the 2.8 trans. The only one you have to swap the diff for is the 6 speed from the s4.

[Altech75]

Everything here could have been summed up with, 'If you have to ask, then you can't do it."

Look, you can supercharge the 2.8, and that's it. Don't ask about what else you can do, because EVERYTHING else involves building up the motor and the "If you have to ask" rule comes back into play. End of story.

I would also like to mention that this thread has brought out a large number of the 'lurker' type members. Very interesting, and disappointing as well.

[malanca]

No, but in Germany a B5 did actually come with the VR5 motor...

Sorry but I cannot second that. The B5 never had any 5-cilinder engine nor a VR type of engine. Not even in Germany .

A 2.8 AAH can be charged up with a PES or Eaton compressor, but this will cost serious money. Of course, in the end you'll have a rare car and the sound, like it or not, is quite unique.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GsFtKo66EV4

[Scotty@Advanced]

No, but in Germany a B5 did actually come with the VR5 motor, so thats why it is now possible for a VR6 12v or 24v VR6 to be installed on your AWD system.

The B5 Audi never had a VR engine in it, however the B5 VW Passat did come with the VR5.

[djwimbo]

No, but in Germany a B5 did actually come with the VR5 motor, so thats why it is now possible for a VR6 12v or 24v VR6 to be installed on your AWD system.

False.

The VR6 was retrofitted b/c the 2.7T is a PITA and expensive to build. The VR-T setups are rather reliable and easier to work on.
power output/potential is almost identical since both are the same displacement. The VR6 is stupid cheap in comparison to the 2.7T.

Audi used the I5 for years though so did VW. And VW just released a 2.5l 5 cylinder a couple of years ago.

sorry Nic, I hate to burst your bubble, but the 2.2/2.3L I5 has virtually nothing to do with the VW 2.5 I5. The similarities between the two are limited to pretty much the firing order.

[SualexB5]

I drive a B5 2.8L V6 12V haha and wow, i'm already selling this and getting either a 1.8T or 2.7T....

[Rb26dett s13]

While on this topic... does a stock 2000 B5 Passat 2.8 ECU work on a stock 2000 Audi 2.8??

[Scotty@Advanced]

We have the adapter plate in stock as well as a bolt in oil pan for the Vr6 in a B5 chassis.

While on this topic... does a stock 2000 B5 Passat 2.8 ECU work on a stock 2000 Audi 2.8??

Yes if the ECU part nos are the same.