[Update 2] The Big APR RS4 ECU Upgrade thread.

[Retsujou]

This is my personal account of the APR ECU experience for the B7 RS4.

Some might know my car, for those of you who do not, it is a B7 2008 RS4 with roughly 35000 Kilometers on the clock. The car has been completely de-gunked in February by manually cleaning the accessible parts and chemically cleaning the parts inaccessible.

If you are look for cold hard numbers and before and after dyno runs, then this thread is not for you. If you are looking for the account of two very different individuals reflected in a thread that tries to be objective about something that is very emotional, then please do continue to read.

DISCLAIMER
I have no affiliation with anyone working at APR. I stand to gain nothing from more units being sold and I am in no way employed or receive monetary benefits by APR to present this point of view. For reasons of full disclosure I would like to point out though that APR has agreed to sponsor the ECU flash for the purpose of this review and the continued effort of my updating this thread. The offer of sponsoring the upgrade was unsolicited and in no way a prerequisite for this thread/review.

Day 1
RS4 ECU's 1 APR Flash 0
Today we were scheduled to upgrade my car's ECU's at H2Sports here in Ontario. As it turns out my car had other plans.
To quote from the email I received:

...
As it turns out, the RS4 software is available, however as we
discovered, the software is not available for your specific ECU
revision.

Rather than attempt to flash potentially incorrect software, we've
completed a software extraction. The software extraction takes a copy of
the ECU software, which is then sent to APR. The engineers at APR will
go over this extracted software, and will create a version of the APR
programming specific to the revision of ECU in your RS4.

Unfortunately this process takes a bit of time - however I've spoken
with Keith at APR who has assured me that the software will be ready in
time for your visit tomorrow
...

The experience of speaking to Keith at APR and the guys at H2sports has been a pleasant one so far. Let us hope the revision will be ready tomorrow, I shall update this post as soon as the work has been completed and I have gathered some initial feedback.

Day 2
So here we are again. The Experts at APR are hard at work, apparently it will take around 3 hours to finish off the changes necessary to support the revision of ECU I am sporting in my car. At around 2pm we shall give H2Sport another call and if everything it there the flash will then happen.
Car had to go to the dealership this morning as there was a CEL, apparently related to fuel quality or pressure. Right now they are on a 100KM test drive to flush some chemicals through the system.

The flash has been completed. What follows are the impressions of my partner after having driven the car only for about 15 Kilometres and in rather heavy traffic.

Did you notice anything different when you drove home?
"No, not really"
Did you notice any increase in power? Does it feel more agile to you?
"No, I really cannot tell a difference"
Did you think that driving was more smooth, especially in the stop and go?
"No, not really"
Did you notice anything else?
"Well the car seems louder now"

I just came home with a co-worker, I have not drive the car at all yet. Please take into account that she does not drive the car as much as I do nor does she drive it as hard. This is an unbiased, first impression.
I will add my first impression in about 3 hours. Tomorrow we are going on a fairly long trip down to VAST I will continue to update this thread.

First Impressions
They say that first impressions are the most important ones and you only get one chance at them. I just completed a very short drive to the bank. Never went over 70 and could not really go WOT anywhere. As sceptic as I am as a human being I have to say I am impressed.

I had expected to find a small difference, little improvements here and there but my car behaves very differently now.
It is best described with a smoother power delivery that seems to have woken up the car. Furthermore shifting from first gear into second gear seems almost effortless now and getting the car off the line feels quite different as well.

It is hard to explain how it feels, it seems as if the car was more willing to "go". Revving up to around 3500 which is my normal shift point in first gear seems to happen earlier at the same throttle position. Now that might be because the throttle is being read differently, yet how the power is delivered feels different as well. It feels more effortless as if the car was pulling itself there with ease. Like a runner that outlasts all the competitors but is actually only going half speed.

In first gear there is a definite improvement as to how the pedal responds to input right after you started rolling. It is a lot less jerky and coming off the pedal the car decelerates much smoother. especially in first and second.

I notice more responsiveness in third gear going from around 1800 up to 3200 to get back up to speed.

So far I am pleased. This change has brought a smile to my lips and the emotional benefit of having the tune is beginning to sink in. Tomorrow is road trip time, which will be the true endurance test.

On the weekend the flywheel, tune and piggie combination will be tested and I shall report on that too.

[drew]

oops

[jstahmann]

oops

Why oops? It's great that APR takes the time and effort to get it right, rather than just loading whatever software they may have and potentially cause problems.

APR is big enough with enough experience that they can take something like a different ECU software version in stride. Many smaller vendors would be left scratching their heads...

Thanks for sharing, Ret.

[PESAPC]

Why oops? It's great that APR takes the time and effort to get it right, rather than just loading whatever software they may have and potentially cause problems.

APR is big enough with enough experience that they can take something like a different ECU software version in stride. Many smaller vendors would be left scratching their heads...

Thanks for sharing, Ret.

Yah ... SINGH TUNING had all this SW out and in RS4s two years ago. How do I know? Because it has been in my car all that time!

Similarly, the ECUs were different than expected so the downloaded profile was sent off to engineers for review and tweaking and back in the car all with one day.

Best of luck RET ... indeed we are interested in your candid comments. If it's anything like my experience with my car, you should witness a big ass change.

[beemercer]

Not a surprise, the S4's have a few separate ECU. I know back when I got my tune from JHM they were finishing up work on certain 05's but at this point they are all set for any revision.

[richib86]

if I remember correctly from this whole process(I beta'd my car with revo so same story as Ret. and pesapc) there are 4 different ecu versions. I can't wait for results but I have a feeling you will enjoy the freed up power.

[sakimano]

what's with the tiny fine print? What does 'sponsoring' mean? Free ECU?

[Retsujou]

what's with the tiny fine print? What does 'sponsoring' mean? Free ECU?

I have changed the size so you can read it old man .
Yes sponsorship means that APR is covering the cost of the actual flash I am covering labour costs to get it onto the car.

[LondonRS4]

Keep us posted. H2Sport did the APR on my B7 A4 Avant. Great guys. There is a APR dealer in London now, at Leavens VW dealership no less !

[Retsujou]

Big update, thus a bump

[Retsujou]

another bump, as I added my first impressions

[Sharkfin]

with the conversational/storyline writing and the small font in the first post I'm confused

[richib86]

and you called lies on that smoother less jerky first gear... lol

[Retsujou]

and you called lies on that smoother less jerky first gear... lol

No, I said that it usually is the driver's fault. After all I had nothing to compare it to I would never call any member on here a liar.

[Retsujou]

with the conversational/storyline writing and the small font in the first post I'm confused

This thread will not contain hard numbers. It is deliberately written from an emotional point of view. "Is it worth it" is usually not determined by the gains you get in numbers (for some it is, not all of us).

Is there anything you would want me to touch on that I have not yet?
Thank you for the feedback.

[richib86]

I'm just poking a little fun, I'm glad you're liking the tune so far and if it's anything like the revo was it'll jut get better with more miles

[Keith@APR]

First Impressions

They say that first impressions are the most important ones and you only get one chance at them. I just completed a very short drive to the bank. Never went over 70 and could not really go WOT anywhere. As sceptic as I am as a human being I have to say I am impressed.

I had expected to find a small difference, little improvements here and there but my car behaves very differently now.
It is best described with a smoother power delivery that seems to have woken up the car. Furthermore shifting from first gear into second gear seems almost effortless now and getting the car off the line feels quite different as well.

It is hard to explain how it feels, it seems as if the car was more willing to "go". Revving up to around 3500 which is my normal shift point in first gear seems to happen earlier at the same throttle position. Now that might be because the throttle is being read differently, yet how the power is delivered feels different as well. It feels more effortless as if the car was pulling itself there with ease. Like a runner that outlasts all the competitors but is actually only going half speed.

In first gear there is a definite improvement as to how the pedal responds to input right after you started rolling. It is a lot less jerky and coming off the pedal the car decelerates much smoother. especially in first and second.

I notice more responsiveness in third gear going from around 1800 up to 3200 to get back up to speed.

So far I am pleased. This change has brought a smile to my lips and the emotional benefit of having the tune is beginning to sink in. Tomorrow is road trip time, which will be the true endurance test.

On the weekend the flywheel, tune and piggie combination will be tested and I shall report on that too.

So, you like it? Would you have paid for it and kept it?

The reason it feels so snappy has to do with that acheived 30+ degrees of timing this engine loves so much. Timing makes the engine feel snappy under load and at idle.

[richib86]

this car LOOOVES timing

[ngng]

Glad to hear you noticed a difference!

[WinterRunner]

Once it's out of beta testing (Spring) Im gonna run over to Pawtuckett and get a flash trial. Thanks Rets for the review.

[Keith@APR]

Once it's out of beta testing (Spring) Im gonna run over to Pawtuckett and get a flash trial. Thanks Rets for the review.

Its out of beta we just don't have program switching ready yet. The calibrations are set and won't change. Switching will be in the next month or so.

[WinterRunner]

Its out of beta we just don't have program switching ready yet. The calibrations are set and won't change. Switching will be in the next month or so.

Well that's what I meant, sorry for the confusion.

[Stevelev]

I was expecting to hear "not noticeably different" or perhaps a response to Kieth's question : "no, I wouldnt have kept and paid for it" ...

I figured this would be my first Audi to remain relatively stock but from what I'm reading here and having positive experience with APR on a couple of my past Audis, I think keeping my "winter beater" bone stock could be shortlived !

[Keith@APR]

Well that's what I meant, sorry for the confusion.

ok, I understand. It was my confusion, sir!

[Retsujou]

So, you like it? Would you have paid for it and kept it?

The reason it feels so snappy has to do with that acheived 30+ degrees of timing this engine loves so much. Timing makes the engine feel snappy under load and at idle.

So far so good. I am hesitant to really answer that question yet. So far I enjoy the much smoother delivery of power and the feeling that you get when you actually go into the accelerator. Please understand that I had a very very short drive yesterday and a very long highway drive today.

Unfortunately my clutch had to be replaced and now I need to break in the JHM clutch until I can actually test this new setup.

Big Kudos to APR for providing VAST with a testpipe calibration so that my O2 sensors would not have to be relocated.

Back to the original question though, at this point in time I believe the flash is well worth the money and I probably would have kept it. I predict this will most likely be my final verdict as well.

For now I need 800KM of clutch breaking in.

[Keith@APR]

So far so good. I am hesitant to really answer that question yet. So far I enjoy the much smoother delivery of power and the feeling that you get when you actually go into the accelerator. Please understand that I had a very very short drive yesterday and a very long highway drive today.

Unfortunately my clutch had to be replaced and now I need to break in the JHM clutch until I can actually test this new setup.

Big Kudos to APR for providing VAST with a testpipe calibration so that my O2 sensors would not have to be relocated.

Back to the original question though, at this point in time I believe the flash is well worth the money and I probably would have kept it. I predict this will most likely be my final verdict as well.

For now I need 800KM of clutch breaking in.

I am glad you are enjoying it!

[badhbtz]

I am glad you are enjoying it!

Hi Keith..

I'm new on here but not with APR.. I have worked with the guys down south years ago with the VW GTI's and R32s we owned in a Michigan based group that also worked with VW/Audi N.A. in Auburn Hills, MI. I recently picked up an RS4 and wonder who you would recommend to possibly work on a flash for me. As I recall Steves Euro was an APR Dist. Anyone else?

Thanks,

Chip