Engine carbon cleaning - by dealership, worth $250???

[francis_a]

Hi!

So I brought in the wife's B6 due to another coilpack problem, 2nd one in less than a year. But of course, Audi already admitted they're faulty and going to replace them anyways so I got bumped up in the list due to the failure.

Anyways, dealership is telling me that they highly recommend engine carbon cleaning before the car leaves the lot. Even told that he would not drive the car out until the carbon cleaning is done. And it's for a whopping $250.

Is this procedure worth $250 or is this something similar to combustion chamber cleaning? He described the thorough procedure but I'm kinda skeptical it really should cost that much.

So they offered and if something went wrong somewhere down the line with the engine, could they use it against me if I opt out?

Thanks in advance for any advice. Wanting to pick up the car today.

[doublezero30]

what kind of cleaner do they use? when i was in school they had some engine carbon cleaning kit they is only available to dealers (and tech schools apparently) and a single bottle of the solution itself cost $40 plus the machine that runs it through the system plus the labor to have it done. was told it was like $200 to have it done so im thinking this might be the same thing. i did it on my car (at the time 99 nissan maxima) and noticed a huge difference in power, throttle response, and gas mileage. i couldnt believe it. i forget the name of the stuff, but if you post it, if i see the name im sure ill remember it.

forgot to mention, car has 105k miles when i did it.

[francis_a]

Unfortunately, they didn't tell me exactly the name of the product but the procedure seems to be what you described. They hook up one end of the machine somewhere from the engine and the other end back to the intake. Sorry not much more details. The B6 has about 56k and not sure if it needs to be done now.

Thanks

[BNZ TOY]

Interesting. Never heard of this. What is the recommended mileage for this service???

[doublezero30]

Unfortunately, they didn't tell me exactly the name of the product but the procedure seems to be what you described. They hook up one end of the machine somewhere from the engine and the other end back to the intake. Sorry not much more details. The B6 has about 56k and not sure if it needs to be done now.

Thanks

ya that sounds like the stuff i used. unfortionatly im not really sure how to tell if it needs to be done. wouldnt hurt to ask them why they think you need the service.

[alexza4]

tell them to go F themselves. they're just trying to take your money. you do not need carbon cleaning done at 56K! the whole "we can't even drive the car before its done" is a ploy to just to scare you into doing it. if you really want to carbon clean your car - seafoam it. you will get the same effect for <$10 (well maybe not same but close enough)

[B5A4Kevin]

search the b7 forums for "carbon thread" by title. theres one that links to a video. the link is http://www.vimeo/3989681. it shows the BG 3 phase induction service on a newer 2.0t a4. they have before and after shots using a borescope. if it is the audi chemical, that price sounds about right. if its a bg induction service which uses 3 chemicals instead of one, it should actually be about 50-100 dollars cheaper. a lot of shops offer the BG line of products, including mine.

one chemical is a fuel additive that goes in the tank. this is comparable to a gumout regain, or stp injector cleaner. the second additive is a more concentrated version of the first, and is plumbed directly into the fuel rail or (high pressure pump inlet on 2.0t's) to completely clean the injectors. the third chemical is what does the trick, and is comparable to the audi chemical, and to a lesser extent, seafoam. this is injected via a spray nozzle aimed right at the throttle body. this chemical cleans the TB, intake mani, valve faces, stems, and seats, as well as the combustion chamber and piston face. if you have excessive carbon you will know because TONS of white smoke will pour out your exhaust, especially when you free rev the engine afterwards to clean out the cat.

the reason it works similar and sometimes better (2 cans of third chemical in one treatment) that carbon cleaning on the bench via scrubbing and soaking, is that the engine is running so the constant movement of the valves is what loosens and breaks up the carbon. the BG induction service is very effective if carbon is your issue and it is way way way cheaper and easier than pulling the head off and cleaning your valves individually.


and by the way, BG and Audi recommend some form of de-carboning service every two years or 15k. so if youve never done it, its probably a good idea. you dont have to get it done there, but i would get it done somewhere. benefits include very marginal power increase, increased mpg, smoother idle, more responsive throttle, and better combustion chamber sealing (hence increase in power). good luck and happy tuning.

[Sales@RAI]

search the b7 forums for "carbon thread" by title. theres one that links to a video. the link is http://www.vimeo/3989681. it shows the BG 3 phase induction service on a newer 2.0t a4. they have before and after shots using a borescope. if it is the audi chemical, that price sounds about right. if its a bg induction service which uses 3 chemicals instead of one, it should actually be about 50-100 dollars cheaper. a lot of shops offer the BG line of products, including mine.

one chemical is a fuel additive that goes in the tank. this is comparable to a gumout regain, or stp injector cleaner. the second additive is a more concentrated version of the first, and is plumbed directly into the fuel rail or (high pressure pump inlet on 2.0t's) to completely clean the injectors. the third chemical is what does the trick, and is comparable to the audi chemical, and to a lesser extent, seafoam. this is injected via a spray nozzle aimed right at the throttle body. this chemical cleans the TB, intake mani, valve faces, stems, and seats, as well as the combustion chamber and piston face. if you have excessive carbon you will know because TONS of white smoke will pour out your exhaust, especially when you free rev the engine afterwards to clean out the cat.

the reason it works similar and sometimes better (2 cans of third chemical in one treatment) that carbon cleaning on the bench via scrubbing and soaking, is that the engine is running so the constant movement of the valves is what loosens and breaks up the carbon. the BG induction service is very effective if carbon is your issue and it is way way way cheaper and easier than pulling the head off and cleaning your valves individually.


and by the way, BG and Audi recommend some form of de-carboning service every two years or 15k. so if youve never done it, its probably a good idea. you dont have to get it done there, but i would get it done somewhere. benefits include very marginal power increase, increased mpg, smoother idle, more responsive throttle, and better combustion chamber sealing (hence increase in power). good luck and happy tuning.

We have this system at the shop, but it is WAY more important for the FSI cars, where the intake valves don't get cleaned by the injectors. Either way it's not a bad service but we charge $125 for it, I would skip the $250 and do a seafoam treatment

[BNZ TOY]

Hmmm... I wonder who does this locally up in Vancouver...

[CyberPMG]

I had it done at 130K miles. I'm sure it cleaned out everything really well, but the engine did develop some small oil leaks to both the front and rear cam seals which had to be replaced. The oil leaks were noticed 3k - 5k miles later.

[Sales@RAI]

I had it done at 130K miles. I'm sure it cleaned out everything really well, but the engine did develop some small oil leaks to both the front and rear cam seals which had to be replaced. The oil leaks were noticed 3k - 5k miles later.

That could be a side effect. That rubber material gets brittle with heat over time.

[francis_a]

Thanks guys. I think I'll opt out of it for now and find someplace else to do it for less. Ya, I agree, it's a ploy to scare owners and run away with $250. I do agree as to the benefits but I find it hard to believe that they try to pull this one off at 56k miles.

Used to own Jeeps and used the Mopar Combustion Chamber cleaner on the engines and did it all myself. Honestly, it's the $250 that scared me much more than the carbon build up :)

[texasboy21]

^^good call, next oil change just run a can trough the gas tank, vacuum system, and crank case.

[kovachian]

Hmmm... I wonder who does this locally up in Vancouver...

I think I'll opt out of it for now and find someplace else to do it for less

Find a shop

[Jeff]

Many dealerships use BG products, also known as "BG44K" to do a carbon clean/flush. Audi uses their own branded product they call the "de-sludge" bottle, but I have reason to believe it's the same as BG44K.

[BNZ TOY]

Find a shop

Thanks and Reppd

[B5A4Kevin]

the 44k is just the in-tank fuel additive. it is not the concentrated injector cleaner, nor is it the intake system cleaner (which is what cleans the carbon out). the 44k is just one of 3 chemicals in the BG induction service. the Audi chemical (long skinny white bottle) g001 700 03 is similar to the 44k and on the bottle it states "fuel additive for petrol engines".

if carbon is the problem, you can either tear down your heads and clean each valve after soaking in seafoam, run seafoam through your intake, or (IMHO the best option) pony up 125 and have a full injector clean and get out all or most of the carbon in one shot.

yes the fsi cars are more prone to carbon, esp 2.0 and high rev 4.2 (r8/rs4) but i believe its a good product for any internal combustion engine.