HELP!!! Having a CV axle issue...Watch the video...

[97ss10]

I was changing my oil today and noticed I need a new CV boot on the drivers side since it was slinging grease everywhere so I decided to check the other side as well. That boot looked fine but I wanted to spin the wheels and see why it feels like there's "slack" in the drivetrain. I'm not sure if that's normal so any input on that would also be helpful but that's not my point. As I was doing this, it looked like the passenger side CV shaft was moving a bit more than it should. So I grabbed it around the inside joint and tried to move it up and down and it moved...a lot! There's also, what appears to be, very fine metal shavings around that same area. I don't have a lot of experience with CV shafts but I know enough to know that's not normal. My question is, what exactly is behind where the axle bolts to the flange on the transmission? Is there some sort of housing that could be broken or a bearing that's gone bad? Does anyone have a exploded diagram of that area that may help in figuring out what's broken? Thanks in advance for any help.

Here's a video of what it's doing:

[97ss10]

Anybody???

[Dan1969]

Did you check online sources to see an exploded view? VAGcat.com?

You probably have a bad axle depending on how many miles you have on the car.

[97ss10]

Yeah I found what I believe to be and exploded view of the tranny but IIRC I think it was for a B5. I don't see how it could be that much different though.

I think the axle will be ok...hopefully. I'm thinking it's the bearing on the right side output shaft (not sure what it's called) which is allowing it to wobble around excessively to the point that it's making the "Brake" light blink and beep. I've read that it could be low brake fluid causing that and I forgot to check. Once I get my hands on the tools, I plan on removing the shaft so I can see if it IS the bearing or not.

[MikeWire]

Looks like the axle flange shaft bearing is done. When you pull the inner CV flange off, you will see a bolt in the center - see how tight that is, and if it's tight then the bearing is toast.

Basically I think you are going to need to pull the axle and the flange out of the transmission to replace that bearing, o-rings etc.

Anyone have an exploded view? OP is that auto or manual?

[97ss10]

Once I remove the axle , will that flange just pull out of the tranny or does that happen after you loosen that bolt in the center that you're talking about. I pray that the bolt is just loose but that's not my luck. I'm thinking that the bearing is pressed on the flange shaft along with a seal, correct? After that flange shaft is pulled, is all the fluid is going to pour out? Thanks!

Yes it's a Tiptronic.

[MikeWire]

Here's some diagrams that may help - I found them in a PDF while researching the ZF 5HP19FLA Automatic Transmission . You will need to pull the flange and shaft, and you may lose some front diff fluid. Inspect that bearing and flange and R&R what is needed. Take some pics for us!

[97ss10]

Thanks for the diagram! I'm not seeing the bearing for the output flange on there (I'm sure I'm over-looking it). And what the hell is an "Anti-Fatigue Bolt" (35.200), is that just European for "Hardened?" So just to be perfectly clear, I remove the 35.200 and the Output Flange just slides out and nothing falls apart inside the differential (unless it's broken) right? I just don't want this to turn into a tow truck trip to the mechanic rapist...i mean shop :) Thanks again!

[MikeWire]

Thanks for the diagram! I'm not seeing the bearing for the output flange on there (I'm sure I'm over-looking it). And what the hell is an "Anti-Fatigue Bolt" (35.200), is that just European for "Hardened?" So just to be perfectly clear, I remove the 35.200 and the Output Flange just slides out and nothing falls apart inside the differential (unless it's broken) right? I just don't want this to turn into a tow truck trip to the mechanic rapist...i mean shop :) Thanks again!

Sorry I can't tell you for sure what will happen when you pull the axle shaft. On my F250 I can pull the rear and front axles (L or R) out with no problems and put it right back without digging into the differentials. It seems to be the same here, but I have no experience in this repair.

About the bolt, an anti-fatigue bolt is a bolt with a long non-threaded shaft and usually coarse or fine threads at the end of the bolt - similar to a head bolt used on VAG cars. It's elastic enough and resilient enough to apply the correct amount of tension on the part(s) it is holding together. I don't know if this would need to be replaced or not, but I would say you can probably use it over again since it is holding the output flange to the differential. There is little outward force pulling on the flange, just torque on the shaft.

Someone else may be able to chime in and let us know if it is a torque to yield stretch bolt or not.

Here is a thread I found on PW for a B5 which is similar:

http://www.passatworld.com/forums/sh...d.php?t=256802

Yours is the right (passengers) side correct? If so it should be a little easier.

FYI you will need to fill up your front differential with fluid again, so make sure to pick a bottle up - the capacity is .8L in the front.

[A4SoftWalker]

Cell phone camera but - it might help

[97ss10]

Yes it's the right side output shaft. I read on another thread that you don't have to pull your suspension completly apart to get the CV out. You can just turn your wheel a certain way and jack up the suspension a little or something like that. Is that true or is it easier to just pull it apart and have the room?

Apparently you've pulled this apart A4SoftWalker, so is there more to this than what it seems? Any tricks or tips to make this project any easier? Any special tools or techniques for pulling apart the suspension? Thanks guys!

P.S. I just got in the Triple Square set and the 17mm Hex socket to pull it down but I'm about to be in the middle of a move so I'm not sure when I can get to it.

[A4SoftWalker]

Yes it's the right side output shaft. I read on another thread that you don't have to pull your suspension completly apart to get the CV out. You can just turn your wheel a certain way and jack up the suspension a little or something like that. Is that true or is it easier to just pull it apart and have the room?

Apparently you've pulled this apart A4SoftWalker, so is there more to this than what it seems? Any tricks or tips to make this project any easier? Any special tools or techniques for pulling apart the suspension? Thanks guys!

P.S. I just got in the Triple Square set and the 17mm Hex socket to pull it down but I'm about to be in the middle of a move so I'm not sure when I can get to it.

U are correct there is not need to break down the entire suspension I was in the middle of a complete control arm replacement and coilover install and I decided to throw in a half-axle replacement as well with R-Axles.

Basically I used the steps on Audiworld Tech article section here. Go here to fill in on the steps I did not elaborate on below. (All this typing, referencing, and researching makes me feel like I'm back in college doing assignments - haha)

1) Jack up car and remove wheel (skip this step if u are able to remove ur centercap with the wheel on the car)
2) Remove centercap from wheel, replace wheel, and lower (doesn't need to be all the way down)
3) Use 17mm hex with breaker bar to loosen the axle bolt
4) jack up car again
5) remove wheel
6) further loosen and remove the axle bolt (Must replace with a new bolt from dealer or online if u have time to wait "one time use item")
7) attempt to compress the cv joints and take out the axle if not remove the pinch bolt (this is also a one time use item but many have used it over 1-3 removals - i wouldn't)
8) R&R old axle with new (ensure u mark or take careful note of the starting bolt on the transmission side of the car when ur tightening the 6 or 8 bolts "transmission dependent" on the tranny side)
9) Torque:
Axle bolt to ~ 148lb-ft (200Nm) + 180* (the 180* is done with the vehicle on the ground)
Pinch bolt to ~ 30lb-ft (40Nm)

Here is another image to help u out:

Now get out there and have at it

[97ss10]

Thanks for the great info! Now I'll have to start making a list of "one time use" parts I'll have to replace. I'll wait to do all that AFTER I tear it down so I can order any other parts needed. I have one question about the torque specs...the article on Audiworld says the "pinch bolt" is 30 lb/ft and the "axle bolt" is 89 lb/ft...is that because it's a B5? Thanks again!

[AvantinUSP]

Remove the pinch bolt. It will make your job 10x easier. I spent 30min trying to wiggle and pry the axle out without it and gave up. when i unbolted the upper control arms it came out no hassle.

[A4SoftWalker]

Thanks for the great info! Now I'll have to start making a list of "one time use" parts I'll have to replace. I'll wait to do all that AFTER I tear it down so I can order any other parts needed. I have one question about the torque specs...the article on Audiworld says the "pinch bolt" is 30 lb/ft and the "axle bolt" is 89 lb/ft...is that because it's a B5? Thanks again!

Ummm... the only thing down there that is torqued to 89~90lb-ft are ur 5 lug bolts on ur wheel. The axle bolt is 200Nm (148lb-ft) + 180* as I stated before.

U can get all these values from the Bentley CD where I got the screenshot from - believe me I checked & I've done it 3 times bout to be 5.

It is available from ECS Tuning.

[97ss10]

Ok I got the shaft out by only removing the pinch bolt and it turns out that our suspicions were correct. The bearing behind that output flange on that short shaft is all but blown apart. There were little pieces of the bearing left in there. My question now is how do you get that bearing out. I'm hoping there's a seal on that housing that comes out then remove the bearing? Or do you have to remove the whole housing? Thanks a lot!

[doublezero30]

off topic- but can someone post or PM me a picture of their OEM axle out of the car? i ordered a new axle and i think it may be the wrong one. dont want to take the old one out before knowing though. thanks!

[A4SoftWalker]

Ok I got the shaft out by only removing the pinch bolt and it turns out that our suspicions were correct. The bearing behind that output flange on that short shaft is all but blown apart. There were little pieces of the bearing left in there. My question now is how do you get that bearing out. I'm hoping there's a seal on that housing that comes out then remove the bearing? Or do you have to remove the whole housing? Thanks a lot!

I just got done putting mine back in 2 weeks ago but yah it can be done on the car but:::

the axle HAS to come out

then u need to get back there with a 12mm triple square tool to remove the 4 bolts that are holding in the wheel bearing housing in the upright (#15 in the diagram)

very difficult to gain access but could be done by turning the steering wheel all the way to the opposite side of the car.

That would save u from having to take out and re-torquing the track control arm which will need a whole new tool called a go-through wrench.

This will allow u to use a long hex socket and 2nd ratchet to hold it in place while torquing.

Basically just get the Bentley already ur qus will be different and more targeted to the task and we wont have to write paragraphs and thesis to explain everything to u.

Hope u figure it out or get it done... If u were in my neck of the woods I would have been able to lend my experience and tools cause u will need a few for this one.

[A4SoftWalker]

off topic- but can someone post or PM me a picture of their OEM axle out of the car? i ordered a new axle and i think it may be the wrong one. dont want to take the old one out before knowing though. thanks!

I would post mine but I have a 5spd quattro and the axles are different for 6spd and 5spd:::

Edit sigh... ... the things I do:::

LINKS to posts I made

http://www.audizine.com/forum/showthread.php?t=320982

http://www.audizine.com/forum/showthread.php?t=320949

IMAGES/PICS:::

[97ss10]

Yeah I got all that out and managed to remove the transmission housing on that side only to discover that it's the bearing that's inside the ring gear as well as the external bearing that's on the ring gear shaft. I'm assuming that those bearings are pressed on and I have to remove the ring and pinion to replace those? This is getting far outside my tiny area of expertise but I'm willing to keep going as long as I have an idea of where it is I'm headed.



There WAS a needle bearing in the end of that shaft, between the splines and the outer edge, that is no more. The big bearing around the outside is in bad shape as well.



It almost looks like someone put grease in the differential to possibly quiet it down?

Thanks a lot for all the help on this...couldn't have gotten this far without you guys! I'll try to find an electronic copy of a Bentley manual soon I promise!

[A4SoftWalker]

^^^ Those pics look like the car was under water at some point???

How long u had the car???

[97ss10]

About a year and a half I think. Never been under water with me and it has a clean title so I don't know?

[MikeWire]

Wow that's messy! You know it looks like to me that someone put in a non-synthetic gear oil, or like A4softwalker said, the car was underwater or submerged. Still, the seals on the diff are usually really good.

Maybe your bearing has been bad for so long that just water/dirt from the road contaminated it?

[97ss10]

Wow that's messy! You know it looks like to me that someone put in a non-synthetic gear oil, or like A4softwalker said, the car was underwater or submerged. Still, the seals on the diff are usually really good.

Maybe your bearing has been bad for so long that just water/dirt from the road contaminated it?

Yeah I thought maybe from the bearing being bad that it just got REALLY hot from the friction but there's no way that could've been it and the car still drive. I'm still leaning towards someone putting grease in there instead of gear oil OR some how water getting in there. Doesn't really matter that much because either way I have to figure out how to change those bearings SOON.

[MikeWire]

It does look like grease, but I have no idea why someone would think to pack that bearing with grease instead of know it takes gear oil!

Well, you sure have your work cut out for you! You are getting rep for having to deal with someone elses mistake

[CHRI7S]

Anymore info on this?

[97ss10]

Yeah...just found out today from the local dealership that I can't get the bearings I need. Which means, according to Bentley, I have to replace the transmission! That's $4800 BTW, for a remanufactured from the dealer. I'm going to make some calls today to see if I can get a used tranny from somewhere. If anyone else has any ideas please let me know! Thanks a lot.

*Update*
I called LKQ (salvage parts company) and they quoted me a price "starting at" $1150 for a GBJ code tranny. I'm wondering what years I could get a replacement tranny from to see if it would just be cheaper to buy a wrecked donor car. Any advice???

[97ss10]

*UPDATE*

Car's still down! Tried to buy a wrecked A4 at auction but it went too high. I'm looking into getting a bearing made but according to a bearing company I talked to, "No one is making needle bearings anymore." Still trying to figure this thing out!!!

[97ss10]

**UPDATE**
Well I've gotten the part I need to reassemble the front diff!!! Long story short, a machine shop was able to make a brass bushing with oil grooves in it to go where that needle bearing was and it works like a charm. I'm going to start reassembling everything tomorrow after I clean all that crap out of the diff. Does that thing require special fluid or will Mobil 1 work or what? Hopefully I can remember how all that came apart! Thanks guys!

[A4SoftWalker]

I WOULDN'T DO MOBIL 1

[02ALLROAD02]

Hi everyone, I know it's an old thread, but I'm having the same issue with the bearing and found some info that may be useful. The needle bearing the passenger side output flange rides on is made by INA. The part number is hk3224. It's an odd size and not many places carry it. It's even been difficult to order off of the Internet. Hope this helps

[RyanB]

**UPDATE**
Well I've gotten the part I need to reassemble the front diff!!! Long story short, a machine shop was able to make a brass bushing with oil grooves in it to go where that needle bearing was and it works like a charm. I'm going to start reassembling everything tomorrow after I clean all that crap out of the diff. Does that thing require special fluid or will Mobil 1 work or what? Hopefully I can remember how all that came apart! Thanks guys!

Damn, I know this is an old thread, but I need to respond to this for future researchers. (I was linked here from another thread myself.)

An oil groove bushing will not have the same load carrying and wear capabilities as the tapered roller bearing and/or needle bearing originally used. I can't imagine OP's solution having lasted that long, but we never got an update.