Frustrated painter can't match paint!! Help!

[rzundel]

Many of you know that I am in the process of having a major make over on my B6 S4. In preparation to taking it to AE Performance next week to get the work done I thought I would take it to my painter to have him repaint and freshen up the front and rear bumpers. In addition to covering up some basic rock chips, my main motivation for painting my bumpers was to get the paint on my bumpers to match my car. I have a silver car. Everyone knows that the bumpers from factory on a silver car don't match. My painter thought he could get them to match.

WRONG!! He has painted both twice and it seems to be getting worse not better. He even painted a corner panel and used the same paint on the bumper and it is still off. He has tried every trick he knows and still gets a different color on bumper and car. We are both frustrated with the results.

Does anyone have a solution here?

[A4Dit]

It will not work on silver, even the factory paint is off and they use the same exact paint on the entire car. The problem lies underneath the paint. You are painting over plastic as opposed to metal. It will probably never match. Hope this makes sense.

[iconoclast]

its a difficult task to match with silver and grey... on top of that youre on two different materials... plastic and metal.

[ClarkSJ]

I have had both VAG Reflex Silver and Lake Silver Metallic successfully matched by a body ship on plastic and metal parts. A good shop will check the color on the car with a color spectrometer, and mix the paint accordingly.

[jdmnomore]

same here, i was rear ended while sitting still at a light in my imola b6. Shop tried its hardest a reputable shop, but couldnt get it to match. Plastic vs Metal. Good news is it should only be off at certain angles, most of the time it should look like a perfect match.

[deviant-customs]

I am a painter and have never had a problem making plastic and metal the same color.
First off once the car is painted you are no longer painting plastic or metal, you are painting over paint. You can paint on paper test sheets and match it.
Second thing is if it is a rather transparent color what is under neath it will effect the final look of the color you are spraying. The pattern you spray will effect the metallics.
Third if the guy painted it twice I hope to hell that he stripped all that paint off first. If not you (the owner) will regret it later because the thicker the paint the easier and faster you end up with multiple rock chips. ( i just stripped 2 layers off mine for that exact reason )

Sometimes you need to blend into the next panel instead of butt matching, but if you are talented and used to silvers you should be able to achieve it. In those situations you should always spray test spray outs first to make sure you have the correct color / pattern.

[A4Dit]

Why do plastic bumper covers change color? Every once in a while we get a phone call from body shop client that is trying to deliver a car and their customer will not take it because the bumper looks different than the car. The most amazing thing is that the bumper and the front end of the car was painted at the same time, with the same gun, same air pressure, same temperature and the same paint.

How do you explain the bumper color change to the customer? Plastic bumpers will always change color especially in metallic colors. The plastic has a static charge and the metallic paint will settle different than on the sheet metal parts, causing pigment floatation that will shift the color darker or lighter. The other reason is surface temperature, if the sheet metal is colder, the bumper will look lighter, if the sheet metal is hotter than the bumper, the color on the bumper will look darker. The third reason is flex additive. If the clearcoat is applied on the bumper with a flex additive, it will shift the color slightly.

How do you prove your point after explaining this to the customer? Your customer will probably think your trying to fool them with this explanation, Luckily, the majority of our body shop clients in our area are dealerships. So they walk the client to the show room floor and point out that just about every car on the lot with a metallic color has a shade different on the bumper covers, front and rear, plastic door handles and plastic mirrors, all have different shades. Most clients are more at ease when they realize that they bought the car this way but had never noticed.



Reference: Autobodysuply.net

[rzundel]

I am a painter and have never had a problem making plastic and metal the same color.
First off once the car is painted you are no longer painting plastic or metal, you are painting over paint. You can paint on paper test sheets and match it.
Second thing is if it is a rather transparent color what is under neath it will effect the final look of the color you are spraying. The pattern you spray will effect the metallics.
Third if the guy painted it twice I hope to hell that he stripped all that paint off first. If not you (the owner) will regret it later because the thicker the paint the easier and faster you end up with multiple rock chips. ( i just stripped 2 layers off mine for that exact reason )

Sometimes you need to blend into the next panel instead of butt matching, but if you are talented and used to silvers you should be able to achieve it. In those situations you should always spray test spray outs first to make sure you have the correct color / pattern.

My painter did 7 color swatches to try and match corner panel paint exact. Mixed and sprayed the paint and still came out a different color. He even sprayed one of the corner panels and the corner panel matched the rest of the car but the bumper still came out different. I am starting to accept that fact that they are two different materials you are painting and there really is not a way to get an exact match on a silver metalic. Paint is an art. I'm sure there are probably painters that have figured out how to compensate for this and can probably can make a match.

[Silver B6 S4]

My car is the same way, but it's only noticeable on the back bumper. Cars from the factory that came in Light Silver Metallic, were the same way. My car hasn't had the paint touched, and the back bumper is darker than the rest of the car. If it was the plastic affecting the paint, than why is the front bumper/antenna,spoiler, and side moldings match?

[deviant-customs]

I have painted hundreds of cars and hundreds of motorcycles. Matching colors is not always the easiest, but it is by no means impossible. Plastic, metal, carbon fiber, urethane, fiberglass you can put it all on one car and make it match end of story.

Many places will not go through the extra effort because frankly it is not worth the time and money for them. Most consumers don't care if their bumper is a shade off if they ever notice. You can look at other cars that are silver from the factory and see that they are dead on. Different paint materials different plastic materials different painters different shops equal different results.

I am by no means putting your painter down. i am sure he did what he normally does and just ran into troubles

[RAudi Driver]

Marcos Auto Body. End of Story. Go to the San Gabriel location and tell them that Edward Lee sent you here. They will take care of you and I guarantee that your paint will match spot on.

[Sigster]

One reason the bumpers dont match from the factory is that they aren't painted at the same time or place. They are usually added to the car after it has already been painted. Metallics lay down different on plasic then they do on metal too. Most likey why it matches on the car and not the bumper. Even if the color is close enough that you can livee with it I would be concerned about the paint being too thick. It may look good now but if your original concern was rock chips there will be more and uglier chips in your near future. It really needs to be stripped and repainted. The best solution is my opinion is finding a good painter and a shop that uses waterbourne paint. It's the closest to the factory finish and the metallic lay down correctly every time. It's also covers more with less paint and that means less rock chips.

Good luck and sorry about the pickle your in.

[rzundel]

I'm not concerned about the thickness of the paint and rock chips because I am having them install a clear bra up front after they get the paint color sorted out. No more rock chips.

[...Mark...]

Sounds like your painter isn't as skilled as you thought.

[rzundel]

Sounds like your painter isn't as skilled as you thought.

Point well taken. He's a good painter but trying to satisfy my high expectations on color match. For those with silver cars it looks like it takes more than skill to pull off the impossible. The only way to really make it perfect is to paint the corner panels at the same time.

[D.K]

I had the driver's side rear door, quarter, and front bumper all replaced after an accident and they were able to match the silver up without problem.

[04 Ass 4]

It will not work on silver, even the factory paint is off and they use the same exact paint on the entire car. The problem lies underneath the paint. You are painting over plastic as opposed to metal. It will probably never match. Hope this makes sense.

x2. Silver is THE hardest color to match. Surprisingly..

[RAudi Driver]

Just had the GTI front bumper repainted and it's an absolutely perfect match.

[rzundel]

Just had the GTI front bumper repainted and it's an absolutely perfect match.

Is it Silver? I want to make sure I emphasize that we are talking about color match on Silver Audi's. This seems to be the problem.

[import automart]

I paint alot, silver is the worst to match. A butt match is highly unlikley, it happens but only by shear luck. The easiest way is to blend into the next panel. You have to get a good cover down, once it's covered wet sand until all the peel is out of the color but don't rub through your cover layer, then with extreme attention to pattern and consistancy, lightley cover everything once more with color dilluted a little thinner than usual, don't forget, do not pull the gun away to blend keep the same distance but release the trigger as you get near the blend. Enjoy!

[drew]

sounds like your painter has been sucking on fumes a little too long...

[rzundel]

I paint alot, silver is the worst to match. A butt match is highly unlikley, it happens but only by shear luck. The easiest way is to blend into the next panel. You have to get a good cover down, once it's covered wet sand until all the peel is out of the color but don't rub through your cover layer, then with extreme attention to pattern and consistancy, lightley cover everything once more with color dilluted a little thinner than usual, don't forget, do not pull the gun away to blend keep the same distance but release the trigger as you get near the blend. Enjoy!

This is what I mean by the "art" and sure luck of getting it right. My painter said the same thing about almost impossible to get a butt match but blending it into another panel can help. I believe this is what he is doing. I pick it up tomorrow. I'll let you know how it goes?

[rzundel]

sounds like your painter has been sucking on fumes a little too long...

Come on Drew, I've seen your bumpers, our painters are sucking on the same fumes my friend!

[sinned]

No Joke, try using a shop that is reputable and utilizes Dupont paint products, especially the Spies Hecker or Standox line (while a good painter is always recommended, the computer color match of the Dupont line makes the job much easier for painters to get great results). My supposedly hard to match "Candy White" was spot on from a bumper repaint to the rest of my car's body.

Locate a Dupont authorized body shop through the locator and also see if some people have experience with some of the shops around you...

http://pc.dupont.com/dpc/en/US/html/...n/locator.html

I would only use a body shop that utilizes Spies Hecker or Standox paint line, not even PPG. PPG probably has good formulations but paint match on a european car, I haven't had good experience.

[drew]

Come on Drew, I've seen your bumpers, our painters are sucking on the same fumes my friend!

lol

i think my front and sideskirts match pretty damng good. the back is like that from audi.

[RAudi Driver]

Is it Silver? I want to make sure I emphasize that we are talking about color match on Silver Audi's. This seems to be the problem.

It's United Gray and has metallic. It's supposedly another one of those hard to match colors but probably not as hard as silver.

[rzundel]

No Joke, try using a shop that is reputable and utilizes Dupont paint products, especially the Spies Hecker or Standox line (while a good painter is always recommended, the computer color match of the Dupont line makes the job much easier for painters to get great results). My supposedly hard to match "Candy White" was spot on from a bumper repaint to the rest of my car's body.

Locate a Dupont authorized body shop through the locator and also see if some people have experience with some of the shops around you...

http://pc.dupont.com/dpc/en/US/html/...n/locator.html

I would only use a body shop that utilizes Spies Hecker or Standox paint line, not even PPG. PPG probably has good formulations but paint match on a european car, I haven't had good experience.

Spies Hecker is what my painter is using.

[craiglieberman]

Go to another paint shop. I've owned 43 cars, 12 of them had paintwork done in the last 11 years. Every panel matched every time. Your guy is using the wrong equipment/procedures. Run, don't walk, to another paint shop.

[rzundel]

Guys, many of you are missing the point of my posting. This is not about whether or not my painter is good or bad. The truth is he is a very reputable painter that in under contract with the high end Porsche/Audi/BMW dealerships here in the area. He knows what he is doing so stop slamming the painter. This is about the reality about how challenging it is to match paint on our "SILVER AUDI's" and even someone that is reputable is still challenged to make it right. I was looking to see it there was a "secret sauce" that my painter was possibly missing? The responses from many of you have confirmed that trying to get silver to butt up and match is frankly not possible unless you blend it in with the corner panels. Sure there will be those occassions that someone gets it right. My painter is attempting to make that happen because he is determined to do a good job for me. I have to give him credit for that. Most painters would simply give up and say here you go..

[rzundel]

Update - I picked the car up last night and to my pleasant surprise, I was very impressed with how it looks! He got it right! Took 10 days and several tries but his tenacity (and mine) paid off. Without painting the rear quarter panels he did a good job matching color. In some angles it's not perfect but I haven't seen a silver car yet where perfect was achieved. In the front, he did blend into the front quarter panels. Looks great! He also did a very nice job painting the grill insides and rear valance satin black. The guy who did the clear bra was amazing! No seams and you can't even tell it has a bra on it unless you look real close around some of the edges. Simply amazing. I will be posting photo's later today.

[deviant-customs]

I am glad your painter stuck with it and made it happen for you. Looking forward to pics.
I thought about getting a clear bra for mine as well once I finish it up

[rzundel]

Here are some quick photos I took today with the finished result:

[sinned]

That's definitely a match on a silver if I ever saw one. Plus it is Spies Hecker Dupont finish which is one of the best in the industry.