Salvaged Title in CA but Clean Title in Other State?

[HardHitter]

As you know, I'm looking to buy a nice Stage 3 S4 and I randomly get a PM telling me that he may be interested in selling his car.

According to CarFax, the title was given a salvaged title on the registration to the 3rd owner in California. After 5 months, the car was then registered in WA and 3 months later the car was registered in UT where it has been with the owner for almost 4 years.

I just called 1800DMVUtah and gave them the VIN to run, and according to them, they show that the title is clean. I told them that the car got it's salvaged title in California and that they would pull the original title from California but I won't be able to hear from them until tomorrow.

I'm still debating if I should even waste my time with the car:

Statis 6 speed with center diff
Duh Fmic with wiggins clams 007 forge dv samco silicone tbb
Brand new motor with only 900 miles on it with rods, pistons, all new valve train, springs and titanium retainers timing belt water pump.
All asp motor mounts trans mounts rear stabilizer mount asp twin disk clutch and drive train stabilizer with polly mount
all brand new suspension and stasis coil overs big break kit two sets of rims and tires for the car
jhm solid shifter linkage short shifter
avic a1 navigation head unit with xm radio and xm traffic ipod connect
alarm with turbo timer
trick integrated turbo boost gauge and many other functions (it reads on the dash)
Unitronics tuning
jhm meth injection
jhm in cabin boost controller

The car and the motor was built with O34 rods and the pistons are JE's. The valve train is all O34 titanium with higher rate springs. I haven't done much research but I remember you and Rick telling me that 034 is a high class shop and is reputable. Don't know about the JE pistons or anything though. The car seems to have not cut any corners as far as it's build. He states that he has all paperwork and receipts which helps a lot too.

Now I did some searches and a lot of people were saying that the 2871's are not good turbos as they will never spool. According to the owner, he states

My opinion of the drivability of the car is fantastic. As far as the turbo lag goes, it's not a K04 or RS6, but when it hits boost at around 2800 all the way to 7800, it's damn fast. My girls beg me to take them for rides because they like being pushed back in the seats! My friends that have RS6 turbos won't even race me because they've been for rides. And if you're worried about turbo lag in a race, I have that covered too with NOS. I chose these turbos because it's been a dream of mine to have one of the fastest S4's around, and I would rather spend the money the first time to do it right. The turbos are a T3/T4 equivilent to a GT2871R, but are easier and less expensive to rebuild, if ever necessary. And they make exactly the same horsepower. It has 38mm Tial wastegates.

What I am looking for in the car is basically #1 casual driving about 80% of the time staying out of boost. When I want to get into it, I want the power to be there. Will it be good to have a turbo that has some lag so when I'm casually driving I'm not getting into boost but when I want the power, I'll be able to get that kick in the pants?

Thanks guys! I'm still wondering what to do if the car is salvaged. Supposedly everything is brand new and no flaws. Trying to do my research to find that one car!

[HardHitter]

Here are some pictures he sent:

[Mooseimage]

Holy shit, that car is clean. How much is he asking for? And what caused it to be Salvaged?

[HardHitter]

Asking price is $19,999 but he sent that prior to me saying there is a Salvage title. He didn't believe it and didn't know there was a salvaged title until I sent him the CarFax.

Don't know if it's a Salvaged title or not yet, it's clean in Utah but again, according to the CarFax it has a salvaged California title. The DMV is going to call me tomorrow to see if the CA title is salvaged or not.

Current owner, had to have known something was up

There are no scratches or dents inside the car and I just had the exterior painted in May, so there are no scratches or dents there either. The previous owner had a minor accident & dented the hood and fender, so I went ahead and replaced both of those and the bumper with Audi OEM parts. The bumper used to have a few scratches on the bottom, and since I'm a perfectionist, I went ahead and replaced it too. Mechanically, everything but the rear wheel berings has been replaced. Mostly because I'm a little OCD and wanted everything to be new.

[dan4g63]

The title issue is very common, its called "title washing". Sometimes its done on purpose to obtain a clean title and other times its done by accident. I bought a couple out of state salvage cars and once i registered them in CA the title became clean. Of course if you run a carfax the salvage history still shows up and when i sold them i advertised them as salvage.

About the car, it does look/sound good but 20k for a salvage car even with the mods sounds very high to me.

[HardHitter]

Well that is something that we will work on. He gave me that $20,000 price tag, not knowing that the car was salvaged. The car had 3 owners in CA (3rd owner is where the title got salvaged) then the car went to another state and was a clean title, and then he bought it. Obviously the previous owner that sold him the car told him it was a "clean title" because he says that he didn't know the car was salvaged and had me send him the carfax report.

If the California title comes back tomorrow and does actually show it is a salvage car, then what would be a good price to work around for that car? All I know is that a salvaged title car is going to be a PITA for the seller whenever they go to sell the car and I'll need to take that into consideration if I move forward to buying the car. I really would love to jump on this car but again, the salvaged title is holding me back and not knowing why exactly it's a salvaged title. I could ask him to bring the car to a body shop and they can do a look over if the body is straight and so forth.

Another problem is going to be smog. He said he will put cats on the car before being sold for me, but CA is a lot more strict. As you see from the pictures, the car looks stock. If it has cats do you think it'll pass visual and then pass the sniffer?

[will175]

PM Issam@034 and ask him if he knows anything about that car. O34 is a very top notch shop. Have him bring the price down to the same as mine then if you can find some good info on the car buy it and enjoy.

[dan4g63]

Unlike most people i don't mind salvage cars. Sometimes you can get a really nice deal. However i need to see it in person and inspect it in detail. I would also find out why it was salvaged.
A low mileage <100k clean title stage 3 s4 runs around 14-16k right? At least thats the asking price. A lot sell for less. This one does have some other really nice mods like the diff/built motor/extra wheels etc but it is salvage and im sure once you inspect it other small problems will surface. If the car checks out and everything on it is perfect and the mods are documented, frame is straight, etc i would say somewhere around 15k is fair. It does have over 100k, at least 4-5 owners, out of state car, and the title is a killer.
Personally i would pass but i could understand if you dont.
As far as smog if he puts the stock cats back on you should be fine. There are a few stage 3's on the forum and you could ask for their "special" smog tech.

[HardHitter]

Will: The car is located in Utah and the car didn't really have any mods when it was located in CA where it ended up getting it's salvaged title. Do you think 034 would know about the car?

I don't mind a salvaged car either as long as everything is running fine and things are in great shape. The damage of a salvaged title is going to come when you want to sell the car. I'm not going to put any money into this car (so I think) as it is already fully built as far as mods go.

If I do end up going with this salvaged car, I basically have to NOT sell the car in order to keep my value. The displacement is now a 2.8 with forged rods pistons all new main/rod bearings rings 034 valve train springs retainers timing belt the motor is completely new with ~900 miles on it. Brand new paint in May, suspension already done, wheels already done, audio done, interior is in great shape it is as if it is a "brand new car" although the chassis has 103k.

Check list to do with the car is
#1 receive info from DMV about the California title
#2 if salvaged, decide if I still want to pursue the car
#3 if I want to pursue, setup appointment to bring car into body shop for inspection
#4 if everything checks out, do I bargain with him first with both of us sort of agreeing on a price seeing that everything else is said as is or do I fly out without talking price and check out the car and when I get there talk price. I would hate to fly out there, like the car and then end up not being able to agree on a price that both of us agree on.

I can foresee a problem if the car comes back salvaged in CA and I try to negotiate with the seller due to the salvaged title with him replying that he will not drop the price because the title is clean in Utah but we will see.

[will175]

I would pm Issam and see if he has any knowledge of the car. If not check the sellers post history if he is a member. You can learn a lot, especially if he is being honest with you about the sale. Have a knowledgeable utah AZ member check it out on top of getting a PPI done at Audi. And for sure bring that price down. There is no way I would buy that car with a salvage title for that price, You spend a few thousand more and get that widebody one in the classifieds. I would say 17k and thats not a lowball in my head. Not that many people are buying our cars in that price range. The guys that have the money to drop that kind of money for this car already own a S4. You need to be comfortable with the sale.

In all honesty, if I was in your shoes. I would by a cheap S4 around 5k and then do the VR-T motor swap though O34 (since they are local) and then spend some money on the JHM tranny rebuild and new control arms and some wheels. I think that would put you about what you would spend on this car at that asking price. Im going with the VR-T swap very soon. Shipping the car back up there in a month to get all the work done. There is A LOT of pros to doing that swap and I see NO negatives AT ALL, unless you are set in stone with needing to have a 2.7TT in there.

[HardHitter]

Will PM sent

As far as the VR-T engine, I haven't heard anything about it or what it is but I will do some research. I read the first page on the 034 VR-T swap and it seems to be #1 cheaper parts and easier to work on than the 2.7TT.

[Raacerx]

It'd bet on the car indeed being a salvage vehicle. While the car may run just as good as a clean title vehicle... that is really beside the point in my opinion, because you'll never get more then 50% of the value of the car when it comes to insurance. That doesn't include all those fancy mods and the built engine. You might be able to get reimbursed for some of them, but with a salvage car, you are always on the losing end.

Then again... if the price gets low enough, maybe it is worth it. Everyone sees it differently, depending on priorities, etc. When I bought my stock S4, I had the choice between a clean title that was fairly beat up and needed new turbos for $5k or a very clean looking one that supposedly was good all around for $7.5k. Except that the most you'd get for that salvage car if it was totaled would be like $4k-$5k, whereas with the clean title, despite being beat up, it would be upwards of $11k.

just my 2 cents. sure sounds like a nice car though. if the title shows up clean, and your insurance company will insure it as a clean car, then I think whether the car had a salvage title or not at one point is irrelevant.

[washyourrhands]

looks like a cool car man!

price is jsut wayyy too high

[HardHitter]

Just got off the phone with the CA DMV (Wow, they take FOREVER!) and I had them run the VIN number to check the title status and they confirmed that in California, the title was branded salvaged as of 2005.

So I went ahead and e-mailed the owner telling him that although I like the car, the salvaged title is going to be a HUGE hurdle and if he's willing to work on a deal, if not, then sadly I'm going to have to pass on this car no matter how much/how clean the car is.

If he IS willing to work on the price/deal and we are both in the same ballpark range for the car, then I will find a body shop around his area to get it checked out. If everything pans out as good and again, we agree on a price in our ballpark then I may go ahead with it and fly out and see it.

He's asking $20,000 thinking he had a clean title. With a salvaged title, I would think $15,000 maybe would be a decent price in order to have me take on that salvaged title?

[washyourrhands]

i think the 15 is defiantly a good price for that

[washyourrhands]

oh...and i need a ride=]

[HardHitter]

Hmmm....

We just talked to the CA DMV and they confirmed that it was salvaged. I'm still confused about how it went from salvaged to clean in WA and UT. I wish I had known it when I bought the car.

I have put over $18,000 in the car since I bought it, so I can't sell it for less than $17,500 and that's with me taking a loss. Also for that price I can't include the extra rims & tires. The motor, trans, and drive train alone are worth $15,000 and for a car this clean with all the extras you'd pay a lot more than $3000. So I still feel $17,500 is fair. If I can't sell it for that much, then it's not worth selling. My whole purpose in selling the car is to pay off some debts and now with the hospital bill, I really need the money. If I can't sell it, then I'll just sell two of our other cars and keep the S4.

Let me know if you still want to see a video. I just got our new video camera today so I was about to go out and make another video if you still want to see it. Let me know.

[koolade9]

The title issue is very common, its called "title washing". Sometimes its done on purpose to obtain a clean title and other times its done by accident. I bought a couple out of state salvage cars and once i registered them in CA the title became clean. Of course if you run a carfax the salvage history still shows up and when i sold them i advertised them as salvage.

About the car, it does look/sound good but 20k for a salvage car even with the mods sounds very high to me.

Bingo...This is done in TN as well...you can get a clean title for any car. Many of the katrina flood cars now have TN titles...

Hmmm....

We just talked to the CA DMV and they confirmed that it was salvaged. I'm still confused about how it went from salvaged to clean in WA and UT. I wish I had known it when I bought the car.

I have put over $18,000 in the car since I bought it, so I can't sell it for less than $17,500 and that's with me taking a loss. Also for that price I can't include the extra rims & tires. The motor, trans, and drive train alone are worth $15,000 and for a car this clean with all the extras you'd pay a lot more than $3000. So I still feel $17,500 is fair. If I can't sell it for that much, then it's not worth selling. My whole purpose in selling the car is to pay off some debts and now with the hospital bill, I really need the money. If I can't sell it, then I'll just sell two of our other cars and keep the S4.

Let me know if you still want to see a video. I just got our new video camera today so I was about to go out and make another video if you still want to see it. Let me know.

the seller is just playing on your emotions right now...regardless of whether or not he knew it's a salvage...everyone knows now, and that's the data you need to work with. It's not the only stg3 S4 out there, nor will it be the last.

If you're on a date with a girl, and your buddy calls to tell you she had a sex change before...do you still f*ck her/him?

[HardHitter]

It's not a stage 3 car, a lot more than just a stage 3 car. If it was a stage 3 car, I wouldn't even think twice about furthering my options.

If I do go farther with this car, I need to be for certain that #1, the car gets checked out by a body shop and #2 that I really want the car and will not want to sell because once I pickup a car with a salvaged title, all the value is going out the window.

[A4Avant02]

Having formerly been an insurance adjuster in CA who handled total loss vehicles, I would recommend you stay away from this vehicle unless you pay very little for it. An across state title wash is real easy to do and is just another way for the scammers to prey on unsuspecting buyers. At least go in with both eyes open and expect to experience problems with the car if you do buy it.

[dan4g63]

I think he's playing dumb. Who invests over 18k in a car not to mention the initial price of a car and doesnt pay $30 for a carfax report. I think he knows about the salvage title.
Then the engine/trans built that's another story. He better have well documented info on that.
Also think about the extra costs like the ticket there, gas to drive it back, tax, registration, smog, etc. In the end youll be back to over 20k easy and thats assuming there are no hidden problems with the car, and thats a big assumption. Way to much money for that car.
Personally i wouldn't even pay 15k for it, but seeing how much you like the car i feel 15k should be your max.

[HardHitter]

Thanks for the help guys. Too good to be true, if the car wasn't a salvaged title, I would be all over it :(

http://www.audizine.com/classifieds/...=18170&cat=fav

That is what I'm looking at next. Price seems a little high to me though does it not?

[dan4g63]

the black s4 with the r8 reps looks nice, i would pursue that one instead and i bet you could get it for 13-14k

[washyourrhands]

god damn dude=[

that car would be sooo sick to have

[will175]

Thanks for the help guys. Too good to be true, if the car wasn't a salvaged title, I would be all over it :(

http://www.audizine.com/classifieds/...=18170&cat=fav

That is what I'm looking at next. Price seems a little high to me though does it not?

Bro that not a full stg 3, it does not have fueling. See if you can get that one for 11-12k. The you can pick up my fueling,lol. Looks good though.

[HardHitter]

Without fueling it's a Stage 3- right? With fueling it's a Stage 3?

How much would a fueling kit cost with installation and how much more of a difference is it between a stage 3- and a stage 3?

[washyourrhands]

fueling can cos from 1200 to 3000

best thing around here is to get a custom feling setup from JHM which will cost 2000 and 2200 depending on the year of the car

[doobiesdaddy]

offer 11k and if he says no, move on. Plenty of stage 3 s4's out there for less $$ in better condition.

[wannabeS4]

I dk if you saw this one, looks clean.

http://sfbay.craigslist.org/eby/cto/1282530636.html

[HardHitter]

Yea I've been in contact with that owner. It's currently at 034 getting work done and then to get tuned.

He will start showing the car Thursday.

[mtxsho93]

If you're on a date with a girl, and your buddy calls to tell you she had a sex change before...do you still f*ck her/him?

So uh, what's the correct answer here?

Ian

[mufflerman]

If you're on a date with a girl, and your buddy calls to tell you she had a sex change before...do you still f*ck her/him?

Whoa! So a salvage S4 is the equalivant of a man that has a vagina?!