APR 1 vs 1+ : Maintenance and Driveability

[ratten46]

Ok, at risk of sounding like a moron, I'm trying to decide between APR's 1 or 1+ upgrade for my B6 (04 A4 1.8T QT) with 60K miles. I've searched and searched, but I don't really see this comparison on this or any other forum, in terms of anything other than performance. Clearly, the 1+ has greater performance. I did read a thread related to the injectors, pointing out that the stage 1 probably puts the standard injectors at nearly 100% of their duty cycle (at peak?).

So, I have an appointment for tomorrow morning...I've purchased the injectors, but I'm still thinking about just doing stage 1. This car is my daily driver, and I put 60 to 100 miles on per day. I don't want and cannot afford reliability issues that would put my car completely out of commission. I understand coilpacks will go bad and the DV will need replaced (already ordered one). This is probably true either way. I do my own maintance, not too big of deal. It's more of the WAF. How much real difference (butt dyno) is there between the 1 and 1+ file, and how much harder is the 1+ file on the car? Does 1+ use higher boost, or is it just pushing more fuel? At this point, the cost is the same, but I would likely be able to sell my TT225 injectors and get my money back. Currently, I find myself at WOT more often than I would like, and I'm sure it's lack of power delivery from the stock ECU. Will Stage 1 be enough to give me low end power (1st/2nd gear) without sacrificing longevity of the car? Or is 1+ just as hard on the car as 1?

Yeah, write a book - but now you can hopefully help me....

[onlyaudis]

Do a search on these questions, as the archives are full of info about this.

biggest problem with doing stage 1+ is the stock inter cooler gets overwhelmed in a hurry when you are on the boost, so your new found power is short lived if you stay on the boost. i don't think either set up will damage the car, although the APR 1+ can run higher boost levels than I think are best for long turbo life.

[ratten46]

One would think that this question was answered hundreds of times before in the archives, but I just can't find it. I'm sure it's a search term issue. I don't know the right one. The only stuff I've found is either comparing the older files APR had, or just talking about dyno numbers and 0 to 60. I don't drive on a dyno, and I very seldom do 0 to 60 in a straight line at WOT. I also don't plan to do ANY other performance mods. There have to be other people who have been in this situation...

I'm willing to search, if anyone knows a search term that will help, please share. I've been "searching" for 3 days before posting this.

[kwimberly]

That's a good question, and despite "onlyaudis" response, I haven't seen a thread that speaks to your issue (and I've been on the board a little longer).

I don't think there are necessarily any additional maintenance issues that 1+ will give you. I ran Stage 1 for a few months before going to 1+. Regardless of the "plus" I still need to grease my DV every now and then, and I have an intercooler already ordered. 1+ did provide a higher peak/sustained boost, but I don't do any extra maintenance because of it.

One consideration for you is that you say you drive a lot. If you stick with Stage 1 your gas mileage will actually improve. By adding the injectors and going to 1+ your mileage will be close to stock.

[turboSpartan]

One thing I noticed with my stage 1 flash was that at a certain rpm level you will get a "chatter".

Something about the sudden rush of torque.

Not really a maintenance thing though.

Sell me those injectors.

[jursch2211]

One consideration for you is that you day you drive a lot. Is you stick with Stage 1 your gas mileage will actually improve. By adding the injectors and going to 1+ your mileage will be close to stock.[/QUOTE]

This isn't entirely true. If you keep up with maintenance and drive like a normal person and have supporting mods with the 1+, gas mileage shouldn't be that much affected. If you are like some on here who like to race and push the car hard, gas mileage with definitely go down...a lot! I have had 1+ for some time now and like the op I don't want issues since it's my daily driver. I change the plugs often, change oil regularly, keep tires inflated to proper psi, clean maf, change fuel filter regularly, and I get decent gas mileage. If he is driving 60 to 100miles on highway, gas mileage should be alright. Stop and go city driving will be a lot different but as long as he's not racing to each stop light and drives normal, gas mileage shouldn't be too bad. My .02

[kwimberly]

One thing I noticed with my stage 1 flash was that at a certain rpm level you will get a "chatter".

Something about the sudden rush of torque.

Not really a maintenance thing though.

Sell me those injectors.

I get that, too. Usually if I'm a little too low in the RPM's to be in fifth gear when I go WOT. I read something about it being the driveshaft wobbling a bit.

[A4SoftWalker]

If ur driveshaft is wobbling I have a DIY for that here rear diff mount upgrade

[Monkey77]

That's a good question, and despite "onlyaudis" response, I haven't seen a threas that speaks to your issue (and I've been on the board a little longer).

I don't think there are necessarily any additional maintenance issues that 1+ will give you. I ran Stage 1 for a few months before going to 1+. Regardless of the "plus" I still need to grease my DV every now and then, and I have an intercooler already ordered. 1+ did provide a higher peak/sustained boost, I don't do any extra maintenance because of it.

One consideration for you is that you day you drive a lot. Is you stick with Stage 1 your gas mileage will actually improve. By adding the injectors and going to 1+ your mileage will be close to stock.

Agreed

[gtsingh91]

Does 1+ use higher boost, or is it just pushing more fuel?

Yeah, write a book - but now you can hopefully help me....

Always wondered this as well, does anyone have an explained answer?

[ratten46]

Always wondered this as well, does anyone have an explained answer?

If nobody has an answer, I will certainly ask at the shop tomorrow. Right now, I think I'm leaning toward the 1+, just because I already have the injectors. Just seems like most end up upgrading FMIC and exhaust after the 1+, and I dont wanna go there.

[vinny.dtw]

I've been in both stages. And all i can say is my car was flawless running apr 1 and 1+. Having 1+ felt like it was chipping all over again. I clocked somewhere around 80k miles on my car of being chipped stage 1 and 1+. And when i took my turbo out there was 0 shaft play. This was commuting to school about 120 miles a day.

As long as you have proper warm ups, and cool downs you will be just fine with whichever you decide to choose. Lots of people neglect that state, and imo is a crucial part to a turbo's longevity.

Good luck.

[wolfdog]

Not reading anything above - buy TT225 injectors from manguyan and go for 1+.

[LampyB]

i still get 30mpg highway while cruising at 80mph on a flat road with Stage 1+. i haven't had to do anything abnormal to the car because of 1+. heat soak is going to be a bit worse than Stage 1, but even stock my car would be slow as hell due to heat after about two pulls. naturally i don't even notice the difference now because i know our little intercoolers are junk. you shouldn't have to do anything more maintenance-wise with Stage 1+ than you'd normally have to at Stage 1. for the longevity of your engine i'll just stress how important it is to always stay up on maintenance, and thats about it.

i drive about 100 sometimes 150 miles per day or more for work, i'm in sales. car has been very reliable, no issues that i can even think about blaming the tune for. go for 1+, if you have the injectors there's no solid reason not to.

[gtsingh91]

IIRC apr doesn't charge fir upgrading from stage 1 to 1+ do why dont you try 1 first and see how you like it?

[b6onboost]

See bolded answers below:

How much real difference (butt dyno) is there between the 1 and 1+ file, and how much harder is the 1+ file on the car?

On the dyno (both real and butt) 1+ is a strong upgrade over stage 1. It adds a good amount of torque and horsepower, and more importantly provides the torque over a wider rpm range. From the drivers seat stage 1 gives you a nice rush of torque at 2500rpm and quickly fades by 4000rpm. It is more of a 'spike' of power. Stage 1+ not only gives you a larger rush of torque, but it holds it until 5500rpm, making it more or a 'plateau' of power. That's the best way to explain it, and if you look at a dyno that is exactly what is happening. I only had Stage 1 for a month, i felt Stage 1+ was a significantly better file, not only for power but for powerband and drivability. By nature it is a little harder on the car than Stage 1, but it has been proven very reilable. Many people have a lot of miles on Stage 1+ with minimal issues.

Does 1+ use higher boost, or is it just pushing more fuel?

It pushes more fuel to allow higher boost.

Will Stage 1 be enough to give me low end power (1st/2nd gear) without sacrificing longevity of the car? Or is 1+ just as hard on the car as 1?

'Enough' is relative. Both 1 and 1+ provide the same low end (below 2500rpm) power. 1+ just shines in the mid range. 2500-5500rpm 1+ is a lot better. For a daily driver its a nice setup, plenty of passing power in that range, turbo spools quickly, and you really don't have to give it much more than 1/4-1/2 throttle to pass someone quickly.

[audi1.8tA4]

had my car done APR 1+ about 20K miles a go and I love it. I have not had any problem with it. When I first did it I just went with the APR 1 and then went back a week later for the 1+.

[plug1]

I'd go Stage 1 first...fall in love with your call all over again...then months down the road when you get used to the power...upgrade to stage 1+ (Free software upgrade from APR, install the injectors yourself) and then fall in love with your car once again....

[Papachristou]

1+ uses higher boost (up to 22/23 peak, holds 18-20) whereas stage 1 peaks 18-20 and holds a little less... and stage 1+ can use more fuel (hence the larger injectors) however my actual fuel mileage is about the same when i drive reasonably

it only makes a little more HP than stage 1 but 40 more ft lbs torque i believe...


i would get the 1+, you can always add supporting mods later.. the software update is free but dealers will charge you between $50 and $100 for their time/trouble...


and lastly for the question reguarding longevity, i have put 50k miles on my car with the APR 1+ flash. about half of that was without any supporting mods and i havent had any problems. I would recommend getting hitachi E coilpacks just so you dont have to worry about them popping any time.. but thats with either flash you decide on

[turbofed]

1+ uses higher boost (up to 22/23 peak, holds 18-20) whereas stage 1 peaks 18-20 and holds a little less... and stage 1+ can use more fuel (hence the larger injectors) however my actual fuel mileage is about the same when i drive reasonably

it only makes a little more HP than stage 1 but 40 more ft lbs torque i believe...


i would get the 1+, you can always add supporting mods later.. the software update is free but dealers will charge you between $50 and $100 for their time/trouble...


and lastly for the question reguarding longevity, i have put 50k miles on my car with the APR 1+ flash. about half of that was without any supporting mods and i havent had any problems. I would recommend getting hitachi E coilpacks just so you dont have to worry about them popping any time.. but thats with either flash you decide on

great information!

[ratten46]

1+ uses higher boost (up to 22/23 peak, holds 18-20) whereas stage 1 peaks 18-20 and holds a little less... and stage 1+ can use more fuel (hence the larger injectors) however my actual fuel mileage is about the same when i drive reasonably

it only makes a little more HP than stage 1 but 40 more ft lbs torque i believe...


i would get the 1+, you can always add supporting mods later.. the software update is free but dealers will charge you between $50 and $100 for their time/trouble...


and lastly for the question reguarding longevity, i have put 50k miles on my car with the APR 1+ flash. about half of that was without any supporting mods and i havent had any problems. I would recommend getting hitachi E coilpacks just so you dont have to worry about them popping any time.. but thats with either flash you decide on

Yes, great information. I asked the dealer today what the tuning difference was between 1 and 1+, and he told me APR doesn't publish that info, so he really didn't know. He was gonna charge an hour of labor to put in my injectors, so I told him I'd be back in 15 minutes, and went out into the lot to do it myself. A bit intimidated by it, but it was really easy. Needless to say, I went with the 1+ file - my dealer is 2.5 hours away, didn't want to drive back up in a week and pay 30 minutes of labor time again. He did say there was a logged misfire on cylinder 2. I guess I'll be ordering those coils soon. Where do you get the Hitachi E ones? I've only seen the newer type R ones that came on the car.

A tip for those of you in this situation, you can use oil off of your dipstick to lubricate the seals on the new injectors. I read somewhere that someone used spit...doesn't make sense when you don't need more than a little oil from the dipstick. Made installation a breeze. Literally 15 minutes on a warm engine with LOTS of rags to protect everything and soak up the fuel.

Thanks for all the advice!!

[north door]

Check ECS Tuning for the coils.....let us know how the stock intercooler handles a Midwestern summer (such as it is). The research I've done so far says you will need a FMIC soon, but I am in the same situation as you. Interested in how your tune holds up this summer.....

[Papachristou]

good call on DIYing the injectors. I offered the dealer i used in plano $50 to save me the trouble. THey said nope, costs $100 to install them. I said , look i dont want to get dirty, it takes 15 minutes $50 or ill DIY. ZBut they wouldnt budge So i just popped the hood, and popped em right in.... APR has a nice helpful DIY on their website you can print and take with you.

I got my hitachi E's from ECS tuning. you can also piece together the needed parts from www.purems.com i believe and come out a few bucks cheaper

yeah, the dealers can update your file for free to 1+ but they will charge you for their time.... thats why you made the smart call!