Front subframe replacement? wtf

[Philio]

Went to the dealer last week because of a clicking noise when I would brake, advance and turn my wheels. Turns out they found it to be my front subframe.
They ordered the piece and will replace it. I was shocked, how can this fail? I figured the bushings were worn or something.
The service rep confirmed that it wasn't a bushing but the actual subframe. How can this happen?? My car has 82k kms!

Out of curiosity is the part expensive? I can't find it online anywhere.

[IceMole]

Maybe it's really the rear from a bmw?

[gdawg'05a4]

I had this exact same issue with the front subframe. Dealer wanted $1500 to replace it as I was out of warranty at the time. Brought it to my indy mechanic who found out that while it was the subframe, the crap fold/pinch welds Audi decided to use was the cause. He welded up the seams along the folded areas of the subframe and clicking noise was fixed. Cost me an hour of labor ($60) to fix it.

See pic: The arrows are pointing to the fold and pinch parts of the subframe. Those are all around the subframe piece. He welded up the seams along them.

[Philio]

wow 1500$ thank god I'm under warranty.
What causes the clicking sound though?

[gdawg'05a4]

It was the subframe flexing a bit around those folds. He was able to replicate the sound by putting a large pry bar between the top of the subframe and transmission then applying a little bit of pressure down onto the subframe.

[Philio]

hmm. Thanks for your response. I'm amazed at all the little things that have gone wrong with my car since I purchased 4mths ago.

[Kittrell]

hmm. Thanks for your response. I'm amazed at all the little things that have gone wrong with my car since I purchased 4mths ago.

Pff rookie, I bought mine 14 months ago and expensive shit is still breaking on a regular basis.................

[wickedrick]

i have the exact same problem, pretty weak if you ask me ... and i was making fun of my friend with his e46, shoul'd have keep my mouth shut lol !

dealer is replacing mine this week under CPO...


in about a year and a half, dealer replaced for at least 10000$ under CPO, i hope it stops since my waranty is almost done !!


*** Oh and Philio, i think it's the montreal roads that are smashing our subframe to pieces !!!!

[gdawg'05a4]

Wow, $10k?! I thought about buying a extended warranty after the factory one ended but decided to take the chance. Quotes I got were about $3000-$3500 for another 2 years or up to 100k miles. From 50k - 100k miles, I only had two major unexpected repairs:

1. Steering rack leaked. That repair did hurt a bit, $1500.
2. Wiper motor bracket seized, $500.

Total cost was still less than a warranty in the end. Since those two unexpected repairs, it's been regular maintenance and replacing wear and tear items (shocks, control arms, etc).

[Philio]

i have the exact same problem, pretty weak if you ask me ... and i was making fun of my friend with his e46, shoul'd have keep my mouth shut lol !

dealer is replacing mine this week under CPO...


in about a year and a half, dealer replaced for at least 10000$ under CPO, i hope it stops since my waranty is almost done !!


*** Oh and Philio, i think it's the montreal roads that are smashing our subframe to pieces !!!!

10k...I'm climbing slowly to that mark too.
I've had the car 4mths and my list so far is as follows (I'm sure I'm forgetting some stuff)
- 2 coilpacks
- heater core
- catalytic converter
- fuel sender
- something under the shifter
- Front wheel bearing
- oil dipstick funnel
- serpentine belt
- and finally the front subframe

[wickedrick]

my list goes on :

1: complete new rad
2: almost every gasket and seal
3: control arm and bearing's
4: subframe
5: ABS module
6: front airbags sensor
7: lumbar support
8: heated seat
9: seat airbag + connector
10: check valve
11: window switch
12: light switch
13: coil packs.....

and i had to change :

1: flywheel n clutch
2: rear brake pads
3: timing belt


and im sure i forget a lot ...

at least i can say i used my CPO


and now im pretty sure my flex pipe is shot since when i start the car cold, i hear the exhaust from the front !!

and it seam that my car doesn't handle right, but ill wait and see after the subframe fix

[wickedrick]

10k...I'm climbing slowly to that mark too.
I've had the car 4mths and my list so far is as follows (I'm sure I'm forgetting some stuff)
- 2 coilpacks
- heater core
- catalytic converter
- fuel sender
- something under the shifter
- Front wheel bearing
- oil dipstick funnel
- serpentine belt
- and finally the front subframe

did you get a check engine for the catalytic converter ?

[gdawg'05a4]

Some of those I would consider wear and tear and not "it broke" kind of repairs. Control arms, gaskets, seals, clutch, brake components and timing belt are all just wear items. Those would be expected on any car, not just Audi and is part of regular car maintenance. On some cars, they may last longer than others but at some point they'll wear out. At least your CPO is paying off!

[Philio]

did you get a check engine for the catalytic converter ?

yup, it happened right after 2 coilpacks failed so I guess it was related.

[Gallep]

I'm having the same issues and found a part #, Supplier, and Price if anyone is interested. My sub frame is really beat up with rust and dents so replacing is more attractive to me.

Part # for 1.8 Manual ONLY = 8E0 399 313 BD

Price= $439

Supplier is http://www.miramarvw.com/. Parts Department: 800-924-0561
They're a dealership in San Diego so if you're not local, shipping will be a considerable price. (Shipping to Denver is looking to be about $40. They don't have one in stock so he guessed on the weight via FedEx)

Have your FULL VIN when calling. Hope this helps!

[A4 Moda]

MIramar seems to know what the hell is up. That's good to know. They are 10 minutes away from me.

[1.8cab]

Has anyone had a front subframe fail twice? I just had it replaced under warranty and now two weeks later the same noises are back. What do they make these things out of - tin foil?

[infernocl]

miramar is genuinevwaudiparts.com

[AudiCVT]

I know this is an old thread but Gallep did the clicking go away after the subframe replacement or did it eventually come back even with the new one?

I need to get mine welded. Dang noise is driving me up the wall!

[Kittrell]

I know this is an old thread but Gallep did the clicking go away after the subframe replacement or did it eventually come back even with the new one?

I need to get mine welded. Dang noise is driving me up the wall!

We were roommates all through 2009. To the best of my knowledge, he has not replaced his subframe.

[Gallep]

yep, I haven't replaced it yet due to lacking funds. Got married :)

[diagnosticator]

hmm. Thanks for your response. I'm amazed at all the little things that have gone wrong with my car since I purchased 4mths ago.

IMO, having the subframe welded as already mentioned by "gdawg\ 05a4", instead of removing the original part and installing a new subframe, is the only way to go, regardless of the warranty. The welded subframe will be stronger than the new part, and the original subframe does not have to be removed to weld the seams. A welded subframe must have the welds rattle can primed and painted though.

[pape]

IMO, having the subframe welded as already mentioned by "gdawg\ 05a4", instead of removing the original part and installing a new subframe, is the only way to go, regardless of the warranty. The welded subframe will be stronger than the new part, and the original subframe does not have to be removed to weld the seams. A welded subframe must have the welds rattle can primed and painted though.

If the little things that go wrong/need repairs really bother you, then maybe you should be driving a transportation appliance like a Toyota instead of an Audi. My Avant has had all the typical little problems also. However, owning and enjoying driving an Audi provides so much more refinement and quality of the experience, I don't consider the little problems as worth a second thought, they don't matter to me at all. My Audi satisfies me every time I drive it. Sometimes, I delay going home because I am having so much fun cruising in my Audi. Not everyone will be sensitive to the qualities an Audi offers and won't appreciate the obvious and subtle aspects of advanced engineering and quality construction an Audi provides. Most of the Audi owners here on Audizine are enthusiasts, as that is the case, routine little problems don't usually concern us much. Practically all makes of complex advanced design cars have characteristic problems.
For many average drivers, a transportation appliance is all that is needed and is the better choice.

This is really funny "maybe you should be driving a transportation appliance like a Toyota"
I have never seen a post like this from you...

well apart from the humor, I always wondered what was that "clak" noise on the b6's when you jack them up by the front subframe. I also tried to replicate the noise on mine since I changed all front suspension components and, i just let it be. Well I guess I will have to weld the subframe.

[Styleprojekt]

God damn you guys have horrible cars. My 02 had 1 problem which was me blowing the steering pump doing donuts, besides that I cant think of anything that ever went wrong on my car in 4 years ownership besides stuff that I break by being an idiot

[Sales@RAI]

God damn you guys have horrible cars. My 02 had 1 problem which was me blowing the steering pump doing donuts, besides that I cant think of anything that ever went wrong on my car in 4 years ownership besides stuff that I break by being an idiot

It's cause your low n' slow haha

[Styleprojekt]

It's cause your low n' slow haha

Which obviously pays off ;)

[Valve_Cover]

God damn you guys have horrible cars. My 02 had 1 problem which was me blowing the steering pump doing donuts, besides that I cant think of anything that ever went wrong on my car in 4 years ownership besides stuff that I break by being an idiot

Same here, I've had my '03 for 18 months now and in 30k km's I've done T-belt, brakes, and an oil dipstick. Nothing has broken, leaked, or stopped working...and my car has 210k kms.!! Maybe the Previous owner fixed everything for me hehe :P

[DPDISXR4Ti]

See pic: The arrows are pointing to the fold and pinch parts of the subframe. Those are all around the subframe piece. He welded up the seams along them.

Good pic, but what is the typical failure mode? Do the pinch welds fail, allowing the sub-frame channel to open up?

[AudiCVT]

I just got my car back from the automotive welder. Had him weld up all the seams he could get to on the subframe without taking it out. He cleaned it, welded one side and let it cool before doing it on the other side so that the heat didn't warp it, then painted it for protection. I am a happy camper. No more clak, click, pop, beeack sounds. I'll report back in 6 months to see if it's still the case. Dang these noises started 50K miles ago and now it's gone, finally. For a while I was felt like that guy in the free credit report commercial...when the girls pulled up and then his car jerked - in my case it was with an added clak, clunk or click. Thought it was the caliper at first. But after much searching on this forum I was able to remedy the problem so thanks guys, esp the tech who was able to figure that it was the subframe.

[DPDISXR4Ti]

I need to get my car up in the air to actually inspect for this, but for those of you who have had this problem, did the noise first appear while turning at slow speed? I've got something of a groaning noise occurring only under slow-speed turning (like pulling into a parking space, for example).

Any way, anyone want to answer my previous question? ^^^^ i.e. What actually fails? Is it the spot-welds that fail, or is the part simply held together via the pinched stamping, and that's coming apart over time?

[O2VW1.8T]

I got weird noise's also, i keep forgetting to check when its on the lift. but my upper control arms are shot also, so it might be that

[diagnosticator]

The several parts of the front subframe are crimped together. Depending on how rough the roads are in your region, the stresses sooner or later loosen the crimps on the subframe allowing the several parts to move in relation to the other, causing the clicking and popping noises. Welding the seams stops the relative motion between the several parts of the subframe. New replacement subframes should be welded and painted before installation to avoid the problem from happening again.

[DPDISXR4Ti]

The several parts of the front subframe are crimped together. Depending on how rough the roads are in your region, the stresses sooner or later loosen the crimps on the subframe allowing the several parts to move in relation to the other, causing the clicking and popping noises. Welding the seams stops the relative motion between the several parts of the subframe. New replacement subframes should be welded and painted before installation to avoid the problem from happening again.

Good thorough response - thanks!

[Jalbie2.7s-line]

I have a weird scrape sound under my feet when I pull out of park I can feel it on the floor panel I'd love to know what it is

[Tarrant]

Can anyone re-host the pics of this? I want to see if my subframe issues are in the same place.

Thanks guys!

[AudiA4_20T]

FYI you can use a B5 subframe. Can probably grab one at the junkyard for $25.

[boy412]

Necro bump. Can anyone post pics of where these seams fail on the B6 front subframe?

[DPDISXR4Ti]

Necro bump. Can anyone post pics of where these seams fail on the B6 front subframe?

I know there's a good pic in here somewhere - you might want to try search a bit.

I recently tried to fix mine with a spot welder but I was in a rush and was unsuccessful. I think if using a spot welder you'll need to get the surfaces cleaned up to expose some bare metal and use some C-clamps to clamp down for better contact on either side of the target weld point.

[boy412]

I know there's a good pic in here somewhere - you might want to try search a bit.

Found it. Clicky Click

Clint has already mentioned that a B5 subframe will work as a replacement. And I read elsewhere that a B7 subframe will work as well? I don't want to get TOO far ahead of myself but any knowledge on this I can collect the better. Going to crawl under the car later and see if I can identify any issues.

[fR3ZNO]

Found it. Clicky Click

Clint has already mentioned that a B5 subframe will work as a replacement. And I read elsewhere that a B7 subframe will work as well? I don't want to get TOO far ahead of myself but any knowledge on this I can collect the better. Going to crawl under the car later and see if I can identify any issues.

FWIW, I am not sure a B7 subframe would be any better since it can fail just like the B6 one.