Premium gas or no premium gas

[kleung]

Hi everyone,

I wanted to know what you guys thought about this. Audi's fuel recommendations: 91 octane is recommended but not required (for maximum performance). What would happen if you don't use the 91? I understand that there may be some pinging with lower octane gas, but is there any other consequences short and long term?

Thanks is advance.

[Postman]

So you spent all that money on a new A4 and you're considering saving a couple bucks by running the wrong fuel?

On both my 1.8T and my 2.0T I tried it. Not only did I lost power and have more turbo lag, but my fuel mileage dropped 2-3 MPG which negates any noticeable long term savings.

It's really not a good idea. If saving a few dollars is that important then you should of gotten a cheaper car IMO.

[{PMS}fishy]

Put 91 or better in it. Period.

[kleung]

I wasn't going to put the lower octane, but I didn't understand the consequences. Thx for your responses.

[audi til I die]

No pinging, no knocking, no damaged fuel injectors. No real physical short term damage will be done by lower octane. The ECU compensates for the fuel and IF it realizes wrong detonation it will adjust before your engine is hurt.

Can you put 87,89??? Yes
Should you??? NO
Why? Because you bought a fucking Audi.

Don't worry, I'm sure this is one of MANY threads on this same question soon to come

[sakimano]

why is everyone attacking him? he bought an Audi A4, not an R8.

If he wants to know the consequences of saving a few bucks per tank, why can't he ask? Further way too many people think the A4 is a supercar that needs to be babied...it's just an entry level luxury car!

OP: since Audi recommends 91, just use 91 as the $ difference will be PARTIALLY offset by slightly better fuel economy (not enough to cover the 10% premium cost though) and slightly better engine performance which should put a slightly bigger smile on your face. The consequences, as mentioned earlier will not be grave but in the end the savings will be nominal and not worth it. You might save $150 a year in exchange for hampered performance.

[John4378]

...And if you get the car chipped, be sure you're running the correct octane for the mapping you have selected.

My wife put 87 in her Stage 2 B7 Avant Sline. I had the 93 octane program selected not knowing her error at the time. I tried to be aggressive with it and I just looked at her and said, "you put in regular didn't you?". It was horrible...even after I switched to the 91 program....it sucked. No power and sluggish. She'll never do that again...lesson learned.

[tekieru]

put diesel.

[afouralex]

Hi everyone,

I wanted to know what you guys thought about this. Audi's fuel recommendations: 91 octane is recommended but not required (for maximum performance). What would happen if you don't use the 91? I understand that there may be some pinging with lower octane gas, but is there any other consequences short and long term?

Thanks is advance.

this seems to be the question NOT to ask around enthusiast forums but honestly, nothing happens - i put the cheap stuff in my B7 for both years I was leasing it...it was my daily driver and I was giving it back so I didn't really care

yes performance will suffer but depending on how many miles you drive, how obsessed you are with your car, how long you plan on keeping it, and how expensive gas is, do the calculations and decide accordingly...

at the end of the day, yes it's an A4 and deserves the highest octane but it's also JUST an A4...if this is your daily driver and it doesn't really matter to you, then save some money!

[moses0324]

why is everyone attacking him? he bought an Audi A4, not an R8.

If he wants to know the consequences of saving a few bucks per tank, why can't he ask? Further way too many people think the A4 is a supercar that needs to be babied...it's just an entry level luxury car!

^^^agree

its an a4 not a lambo gallardo...as previously stated the engine will retard or alter the timing to prevent knocking or pinging

no consequences but you wont save money in the long run due to the poor fuel economy of 87...just put in the 91

whats the compression ratio of the new a4's??? 12:1???

[audi til I die]

A lot of people baby their A4 and treat it like a "Lambo" because they cant afford something more expensive and they know how much work it takes to buy a $40k-50k car and they actually appreciate it, not see it as an "entry-level luxury car". The 09 and 01.5 get the same pampered treatment because I know they both cost sweat and blood. They're both babied.

[quattro.it]

I have run the new Shell V-Power nitrogen enriched fuel for two tanks now and I swear I'm getting an extra ~50 miles per tank. Has anyone else experienced this?

[falcontackle52]

^^^ really, thats super impressive if thats true, well worth the shell tax as they call it

[Beelzeebub]

I have run the new Shell V-Power nitrogen enriched fuel for two tanks now and I swear I'm getting an extra ~50 miles per tank. Has anyone else experienced this?

thats some marketing gimmick Shell Corp. has come up with...

[B_Boy]

it does work i use shell vpower nitro

[sakimano]

A lot of people baby their A4 and treat it like a "Lambo" because they cant afford something more expensive and they know how much work it takes to buy a $40k-50k car and they actually appreciate it, not see it as an "entry-level luxury car". The 09 and 01.5 get the same pampered treatment because I know they both cost sweat and blood. They're both babied.

nobody said you shouldn't love your car...I think you misinterpreted my post.

I just said that you shouldn't panic over the thought of filling up with 87 as it's not a highly strung supercar engine that can't handle...it's a car that was designed to be a basic commuter car in Germany and around the world, and is often used as a taxi in Bavaria...it's not a race car that needs to be treated with kid gloves.

don't get all A4 sensitive on me please...I have had one in the past, and am about to have one alongside my S4 and love all the cars.

[audi til I die]

nobody said you shouldn't love your car...I think you misinterpreted my post.

I just said that you shouldn't panic over the thought of filling up with 87 as it's not a highly strung supercar engine that can't handle...it's a car that was designed to be a basic commuter car in Germany and around the world, and is often used as a taxi in Bavaria...it's not a race car that needs to be treated with kid gloves.

don't get all A4 sensitive on me please...I have had one in the past, and am about to have one alongside my S4 and love all the cars.

I never really focused on your post. Yours was to the general public and so was mine. There are a lot of people that will freak out at the fact of 87, but there are also people that think the A4 is the "beater" of Audi's (some S4 owners and most BMW owners especially). Neither is right. I've ran my CHIPPED A4 on 87 before because I was at work 10 miles from any gas station so I took some of our lawn tractor gas and drove it home, just tried to stay out of boost if I could. It's not gonna kill your car so you don't have to be THAT anal, but you SHOULD be putting 91/93. Hell, if someone feels very attached to their A4 and wants to treat it like a supercar with kid gloves I'm all for it

[B6JoeS4]

damn. where i live we have 93. i cringe every time i have to put something as low as 91 in my car when i am out of state.


i couldn't imagine putting 87 in. you only say a couple bucks per fill up. if you fill up once a week, thats only $104. Is that worth it? and you will be going to the pump more often as your millage will be 2-3mpg lower

stick with 91 or 93 bro

[Ryan_T]

I only put Shell 91 in mine. Nothing above 91 in Canada, but I heard 91 here is closer to 93 in the states.

[quattro.it]

thats some marketing gimmick Shell Corp. has come up with...

How is it a gimmick if I'm realizing more miles on a tank than I was before? If Chevron and Shell fuel are gimmicks then why are they tier 1 rated gasolines? Even between the two I prefer Shell because I have better results with it. Obviously ymmv (literally).

[fusionx]

this shouldn't even be a question, ALWAYS USE 91 NO MATTER WHAT

[fetched]

chevron 94 is available in Canada.
Vancouver.

[sakimano]

I only put Shell 91 in mine. Nothing above 91 in Canada, but I heard 91 here is closer to 93 in the states.

I think Sunoco has a 93 or even a 94?

[fetus4cletus]

I use 87. The sky won't fall. Your car won't blow up.

[jdogg]

In Toronto we have Sunoco, and it has 94. Thats what i use.

[jdogg]

So what you all are saying is, I can run 91 and not use only sunoco.
On the fuel tank door it says, minimum 91 - maximum 95.
And i di not know about shells 91, i will have to try it.
I have always used Petro canada 91 only, in all my cars.
Now i am going to use shell only and see what my car does.

[A4OrlandoB6]

have never used anything lower than 93

[sakimano]

I've ran my CHIPPED A4 on 87 before because I was at work 10 miles from any gas station so I took some of our lawn tractor gas and drove it home, just tried to stay out of boost if I could.

TOTALLY off topic, but I'd suggest you run 91 on your lawn tractor and especially on your snowblower/leaf blower and gas trimmer...avoid ethanol at all costs with these engines as the alcohol dries out parts of the engine, specifically the carbs, and kills it. Same with boats. Plus, then you've got premium gas at home in case of emergency with the car

[John4378]

Like previous people have stated: You can run 87, and your car will compensate for it. No long term negative effects will materialize because someone chose to run 87 in their "gasp" Audi A4.

Really people, that's the lamest reasoning ever.....91 octane..why? "because you bought a fuckin' Audi"....umm, so what??? It's not the brand, but the engine, that should determine the fuel used.

Personally, I have always used Shell 93, but I wouldn't flame others because they choose to use 87, and take a holier than though attitude, like some of you are doing in this thread.

Get proof that Audi absolutely "requires" 91 or better as to not experience detrimental effects to the engine. Remember all of those years of being brain-washed with "change your oil every 3,000 miles....."? Remember, there are industries and brands that are in bed with one another. Don't take everything you read / hear at face value. I will qualify that statement by also saying that there are obviously some items you should take at face value but this may not be one of them. I'm not saying that the car doesn't require 91 but I have not seen any evidence to suggest it does.

Can any of you flamers lend evidence to support your bashing?

[Ryan_T]

Shell V-Power 91 got me 730km on a recent road trip. Used some random gas station 93 on the way back and I got 660km. Go figure. I've always and will continue to use Only Shell.

[fetus4cletus]

Well said, that's an awesome post.

Get proof that Audi absolutely "requires" 91 or better as to not experience detrimental effects to the engine.

But the inside of the gas door says so!!!

[B8_Jim]

Get proof that Audi absolutely "requires" 91 or better as to not experience detrimental effects to the engine.

Going to be hard to prove ...

The book of ownership, "cleaning and protection", "Fuel supply and filling your fuel tank", "gasoline", "Fuel supply", Section 1 - "fuel recommendation", paragraph 3, sentences 1-2 :

-- please stand for the word of Audi ---

"Your vehicle may also be operated using unleaded regular gasoline with a minimum octane rating of 87 AKI/91 RON. However, using 87 AKI/91 RON octane fuel will slightly reduce engine performance."

[fetus4cletus]

That doesn't prove anything other than it is ok to use 87 aki.

[John4378]

Reducing engine performance also does not imply reducing engine life or reliability.

[B8_Jim]

That doesn't prove anything other than it is ok to use 87 aki.

Exactly -- that's why I said it would be hard to prove that 91 is required and sighted the manual stating 87 is OK.

Reducing engine performance also does not imply reducing engine life or reliability.

I'm agreeing with you... guess I should have just left the second sentence off...

Audi says in the manual it is OK to use 87 octane. So :

1) Audi does not require use of 91.
2) Audi would not say it's OK to use fuel that would reduce engine life/reliability without some other kind of warning.

For 2) -- reference the huge # of warnings in the manual for completely obvious things -- for pete's sake -- they have a huge warning (just the first one that I found opening the manual to a random page) for the sunroof :

! WARNING
Pay careful attentionn when closing the sliding/tilting sunroof - otherwise serious injury could result! ... blah blah blah

Do you really think they would OK use of 87 octane if it reduced the engine life given the tort environment in the US?

[Brian@AudiMV]

The lower octane gasolines burn hotter, but the car will compensate for that.

Think of what happens when you throw a bunch of wood on a fire... it dies down and for a short period of time doesn't burn very hot. When the combustion chamber temperatures rise, the car will throw more gas into it to cool down and prevent knocking and detonation.

To sum up, your car can handle 87, but it's not really saving you as much money as it looks like at the pump.

[fetus4cletus]

Exactly -- that's why I said it would be hard to prove that 91 is required and sighted the manual stating 87 is OK.

Sorry, I read your post as sarcastic. ;)

[B8_Jim]

The lower octane gasolines burn hotter, but the car will compensate for that.

Think of what happens when you throw a bunch of wood on a fire... it dies down and for a short period of time doesn't burn very hot. When the combustion chamber temperatures rise, the car will throw more gas into it to cool down and prevent knocking and detonation.

To sum up, your car can handle 87, but it's not really saving you as much money as it looks like at the pump.

Well -- lower octane gas is more likely to detonate rather than burn "properly". If it does detonate -- sure -- it's a lot hotter, as the combustion takes place too quickly and doesn't put as much energy into forcing the piston down as it would if it were burned correctly without detonation.

This is where the knock sensors come in -- if they detect imminent detonation, they will retard the ignition timing. The fuel will be ignited by the spark plugs a bit later, and not as much of the fuel/air charge energy will be used to push the piston down -- part of the downward stroke will be before the fuel is ignited. Thus the reduced performance/lower efficiency.

I can't speak to how much it saves vs. the $0.20-0.30 per gallon you might save over super unleaded, I've always wanted the extra HP or two

[msharifi]

I have run the new Shell V-Power nitrogen enriched fuel for two tanks now and I swear I'm getting an extra ~50 miles per tank. Has anyone else experienced this?

I agree with you..

[akaisuzu]

87 vs 91 is like what, approx $0.10 more per litre?
Suppose you fill up approx 55 litres every tank, 1 tank per week.
If you fill up 87, you save $5.50. And you save approx. $286 a year.

But if there's something wrong with the engine due to filling up 87 for a long term, I think it'll cost more than $286 to fix it.

Note: These are Toronto gas pricing btw. $0.10 is just an estimate of what I remember.

BTW, One of my car freak friend once told me that looking at the compression ratio of the B8 A4, even running 89 will be fine, but you can't go wrong using the Manufacturer recommend fuel rating.