C5 S-Line vs Non S-line HP question

[Susp3nc3]

You might say this thread has been written many times, but i couldn't figure the answer out by reviewing them all.

Obviously the 2004 a6 s-line has 265 hp vs the 250 of the regular 2.7t c5 a6. Some said it was the ECU and some said it was some slight turbo variation (which also made it so that u cant simply bolt on K04's to an s-line).

I would think it would just be a computer tweak to give it the extra 15 hp. My question is if after chipping, the s-line and non s-line would be at the same HP or not...

i figured since the modest 15 hp increase of the s-line was from a computer flash, the chip would wipe out the old flash and would make the s-line and non s-line the same. However, if it is indeed a turbo difference then of course the hp's would still be different after both were chipped.

So... to make it easy. Does the s-line still have 15 more HP after both cars are chipped?

This question stems from determining if i really want the s-line or not, because i have found a great deal on a 03' 2.7. Besides the 15 hp, the s-line only has the spoiler, and the badges.... Because all 03's have the sport suspension, which is the same as the 04' s-line?

Forgive me as my facts could be very off....I am trying to learn all of this in a relatively short period of time.

[Stampy]

hmmm, I believe Daft has dropped knowledge on this before. I will go search it out for you NEWB

[Stampy]

Answers here under BD

Answers here under Daft

I think that should answer it......Ecu. And the Tip S-line has different turbos

[Susp3nc3]

Yeah i read those before...but there were conflicting comments... This is what Daft said and what i concluded to be true

"All 2003-2004 A6 and allroad cars with a tiptronic transmission (S-line was only available in tip) have 703T and 704T part number turbos. For some reason they changed the shape of the turbos at that point and due to this the K04s will not bolt up the same.

The only changes on the S-line cars are:

15HP (via a small software change)
RS6 trunklid spoiler
RS4 style wheels
S-line badges on rear door trim moldings"

Still nobody answered the question if the non s-line and s-line would have matching hp after a chip since the s-line just has 15 hp more due to a ecu modification

if Daft is correct...then the 2003 has the same turbos as the 2004 s-line and the 2003 still has 250...so the turbos have nothing to do with the hp.

[Asicks]

I have absolutely no facts to back up the following statement......but i would be willing to bet that once both cars are chipped they will make the same power. I read through the links posted above and it sounds like the 'shape' of the turbos on the sline was changed...whatever that means. I just don't think from a business standpoint that they would put 'specially' built turbos in the sline and only gain 15hp.....that would be a little increawse for a large cost.

Cliffnotes* without hard evidence to back up the claim i have to go with the assumption that a chipped s-line a6 and a chipped non s-line a6 would make the same amount of power.

[Susp3nc3]

Thanks for the reply...That's what i would think as well. Just curious

[pit viper]

I would think you could still bolt up K04's, just swap manifolds while you're at it.
I wonder what they would have changed on the turbos?
Bolt patterns are fairly specific, they don't change much.

[blkrhyno]

What are you guys trying to say, that I won't be able to upgrade to K04s when I'm ready?

[2001A6]

99% sure chipped HP is the same. I thought I read that before, someone with an S-line just had a thread about getting chipped not that long ago. Il try to look for it. There was something different I recall, but I think the ending output is the same.

[mcaanda]

What are you guys trying to say, that I won't be able to upgrade to K04s when I'm ready?

x2 If that's the case -

[ENDEE666]

What are you guys trying to say, that I won't be able to upgrade to K04s when I'm ready?

Well another variable is that the S-Line only came in tip, which is known to shit the bed in stage 3 cars. The tip barely holds with regular chip. Any real power kills that trans.. S-Line should have come in 6MT, but because it didn't, its poop.

[blkrhyno]

Well another variable is that the S-Line only came in tip, which is known to shit the bed in stage 3 cars. The tip barely holds with regular chip. Any real power kills that trans.. S-Line should have come in 6MT, but because it didn't, its poop.

So you are saying that I can only go up to stage 2 and that's it?

[A62TURBO]

That's why before I go stage 3 I'm gonna upgrade the VB and TC.

[ENDEE666]

So you are saying that I can only go up to stage 2 and that's it?

You can do anything you want. But the tip is weak and will likely not hold up. The tp is a lot slower as a rule of thumb, even on comparably tuned cars. But the 6MT has more tuning potential and can take a lot more power.

The A6 2.7T trans were the same as the B5 S4 trans, so search on that forum and you will find a lot more info you are looking for.

[Stampy]

I thought the thing with the S-line TIP was that the turbo housings were shaped a little different? I thought is why they have different part #'s?

[BostonDriver]

99% sure chipped HP is the same. I thought I read that before, someone with an S-line just had a thread about getting chipped not that long ago. Il try to look for it. There was something different I recall, but I think the ending output is the same.

I would concur with this, sicne the extra 15hp for the S-line is all about ECU programming. If you alter the program with the same aftermarket chip, I cannot see how it would be any different in the end. Just because the base-line starts our 15hp more, the aftermarket programming ekliminates that advantage, but then adds back the supplemental hp from the custom programming.

And yes, the tip tranny is the weak link. A 6-speed 2.7T is the ultimate choice for creating the "super" A6. A guy on the AW forums in CA took his super-modded 2.7T manual and combined it with the body of a 4.2 (with some RS6 parts) and made the "ultimate" A6 track beast!

[mcaanda]

A guy on the AW forums in CA took his super-modded 2.7T manual and combined it with the body of a 4.2 (with some RS6 parts) and made the "ultimate" A6 track beast!

You wouldn't happen to have that link handy would ya - I'd love to check it out. Sounds like it would be one hell of a project for sure.

[BostonDriver]

The car itself is a 2003 A6 2.7T 6-speed sport with OCT stage IV setup, Labree exhuast, H&R coilovers, homebrew Stage III ECU, and 332 Brembos.

Here is a pic of the car after the body conversion, absolutely the sweetest C5 out there!!! :)))

[2001A6]

Oh my...

the things I would do for that car...

And I couldnt find that post. IIRC, it was an APR tune, and there were sime coding issues at first because its a dif ECU. But I believe it was all worked out and the power was the same as a regular 2.7.

On a side note, similar but not... the early Rabbits with 150 hp, get the same finished product as the Rabbits with 170hp, according to the APR shop here in town... Know this cause a friend was just there for that deed.

[blkrhyno]

You can do anything you want. But the tip is weak and will likely not hold up. The tp is a lot slower as a rule of thumb, even on comparably tuned cars. But the 6MT has more tuning potential and can take a lot more power.

The A6 2.7T trans were the same as the B5 S4 trans, so search on that forum and you will find a lot more info you are looking for.

Thanks for the info.

[The Stig]

Here are quotes from some of my emails I saved. I own a 2004 A6 S-line, and had the same question.

(These are quotes from people who work at APR.)

“From what I understand, we apply the same calibration to the S Line as the standard 2.7T. The S line makes it's power from a mild version of a "chip" from the factory.”

“The software is effectively a little different for the S-line vehicles, as they come with a little more power from the factory and we calibrate for the different equipment on the s-line. We determine programming not only by vehicle but by ECU part number as every ECU is a little different and the software must be custom tailored to work with that particular unit.”

“We do not simply ADD our tuning on top of the existing factory tuning. We RECALIBRATE the ECU to work within the confines of the existing vehicle hardware and fuel octane. Therefore, it doesn't matter if your car is an S-Line that came with 15 extra hp over the typical 2.7T. It's not like as though we pile our stuff on top of this extra 15 hp.”

Hope this helps.

[ENDEE666]

“The software is effectively a little different for the S-line vehicles, as they come with a little more power from the factory and we calibrate for the different equipment on the s-line. We determine programming not only by vehicle but by ECU part number as every ECU is a little different and the software must be custom tailored to work with that particular unit.

That parts true, but not specific to just the S Line differences and its ECU. The 2.7T came with a few different versions of the ECU either way. There was M box, A box, K box, etc. No matter if it was an A6 (S or regular), S4, Allroad or whatever. And which "Box" you have is important to what they flash the ECU with. But that is not an S Line specific comment.

But either way, an S line or non S line, they would make the same power once they are "chipped". The differences, and the determining factor of who wins a race or loses, would be the fact the S Line is a tip. The gear ratios are different, and its much slower. Mod beyond a certain point and the tip can no longer hang.

And yes, the extra 15hp in the S Line is from the ECU tweak from the factory. The other differences were cosmetic, and basically all the things previously included in the "Sport Package" option from the factory. Thicker sway bars, slightly lower & stiffer springs, and sport seats.

I think that should pretty much answer what the original poster asked...

[djez016]

so can I make my stock 2.7 into an sline

[MuttsNutts]

What are you guys trying to say, that I won't be able to upgrade to K04s when I'm ready?

you can switch to KO4s BUT there is alot more custom piping and fitting that has to happen first.

[plainaudiguy]

so can I make my stock 2.7 into an sline

My co-worker has an S-line. I think you need a sports supension,rear spoiler,shark fin antennae, s-lne rims, and exposed exhaust tips. His car looks much nicer than my A6, buy my APR chip evens the playing field.

[02 A6 2.7T]

The other differences were cosmetic, and basically all the things previously included in the "Sport Package" option from the factory. Thicker sway bars, slightly lower & stiffer springs, and sport seats.

I think that should pretty much answer what the original poster asked...

The sport seats were an option on the S-line, and a lot of them I've looked at don't come equipped with them. Have a look at the interior photos in this ad from my local Audi dealer... http://www.barriermotors.com/Vehicle...G=14&maxMPG=38

Definitely NOT sport seats...

[Despized]

I have a 2004 a6 2.7t s-line and no I don't have sport seats. Just the generic 12way power leather. Though the rims/badging/shark fin/spoiler are nice and the tips out the back. Could anyone verify the differen suspension? that would be great to know.