is the A4 a dissapointing turbo car?

[babbagandu]

Hello to everyone,

I have been a G35 coupe owner for about 3 years. I recently drove a turbo Jetta and ever since I have really been wanting a turbo car.

Looking through the forums, as well as a couple of other Audi forums, I must say that so far I am a bit disappointed. I'm not here to troll or anything. I really like the A4, which is why I have been reading up on the mod potential for the B7, trying to get a feel for what the car is capable of.

I have always been under the impression that cars that come turbo from the factory can easily be made to make good amounts of power. For example, the Evo, STI, 335i, the old Eclipse, Supra, etc. I was pretty excited when thinking of getting an A4, with the AWD, luxurious Audi interior, and the mod potential for a turbo car.

After reading on here it seems that this is not the case. It seems to be the consensus here that a chipped A4 is still not as fast as a stock G. Am I wrong about this? I would just like to know if there is any way to make some good horsepower numbers on the A4 2.0T without spending thousands of dollars on an upgraded turbo kit.

Once again, I am by no means trying to troll. I really love the look of the A4, and everything else about it. If I find out that the car does in fact have good modding potential I will most likely be getting one for myself

[Sal_B7]

You can get some good power out of the A4 but the thing is that the stock turbo isnt really big and can only put out soo much. You dont buy an Audi for Power, unless your looking at getting a Stage 3 B5 S4 or an RS4 or R8. But Audi is more luxury then power when it comes down to the A4.

[Glassnpowder98]

If you're looking solely for performance, the a4 is probably not the car for you. Mods for the a4 are expensive, and you're not going to see over 230-250whp without upgrading your turbo. However, if you're looking for a great overall car that looks good, has one of the best interiors, can be modified to be decently quick, and has one of the best AWD systems, the a4 is a good match for you.

If you want most of these (german class, looks, handling), plus more potential for bolt on hp, a 335 is probably going to be your best bet.

If you want raw power and cheap bolt on mods with big gains, I'd suggest an STI or EVO.

[RichardsA4]

I have always been under the impression that cars that come turbo from the factory can easily be made to make good amounts of power. For example, the Evo, STI, 335i, the old Eclipse, Supra, etc. I was pretty excited when thinking of getting an A4, with the AWD, luxurious Audi interior, and the mod potential for a turbo car.

I'm new to A4's myself, however from what I have read it seems highly possible to run in the 12's with a stock longblock. Which is not far off from all the cars you quoted above.

[T0mat3]

Ok, your comparing cars with more then 250 hp stock to a 210 hp car stock.... If you want something with boost and that has some more stock power get the new supercharged S4.... its as fast as a 335i. Plus you wont get much out of a 2.0t without upgrading the turbo thats for sure. The stock turbo's are made to make the car drivable at low revs. If you want more hp, you'll need a bigger turbo, but you'll lose out on some low end torque.

[T0mat3]

Christ i had time to write that post and 2 more appeared before me :O

[Glassnpowder98]

I'm new to A4's myself, however from what I have read it seems highly possible to run in the 12's with a stock longblock. Which is not far off from all the cars you quoted above.

That's not going to happen without an upgraded turbo which the OP said he didn't want to do. You'd need to most likely spend at least $10-15k in just engine parts to break 13 seconds in a b7 a4 not including labor. On top of that, it would be wise to upgrade suspension and brakes...

[jayphil82]

I'm new to A4's myself, however from what I have read it seems highly possible to run in the 12's with a stock longblock. Which is not far off from all the cars you quoted above.

Not without a turbo upgrade and that's his point.

+ 1 for the 335 power if it's what you want!

Also B7 are not that reliable with the fuel pump / cam issue but I can't tell the relialibiilty of the 335 tho...

[GQ//S4]

Find a stage 3 B5 S4, buy it, enjoy..... yeah, they're quick little things.

[elwigglero]

You're comparing very different cars. The 335 is a twin turbo 6 cylinder. Evo's and STI's have big ass turbos and slightly larger 4 cyl engines. I love my A4, and with a tuned ECU, it's pretty quick, but the small stock turbo isn't going to have the tuning potential that the cars you listed have.

Your best bet would be to see if you can go to a meet in your area and ask someone with a re-flash to take you for a ride. At least this way, you'll know what you're gettin in to.

[brownishwater]

If you're looking solely for performance, the a4 is probably not the car for you. Mods for the a4 are expensive, and you're not going to see over 230-250whp without upgrading your turbo. However, if you're looking for a great overall car that looks good, has one of the best interiors, can be modified to be decently quick, and has one of the best AWD systems, the a4 is a good match for you.

If you want most of these (german class, looks, handling), plus more potential for bolt on hp, a 335 is probably going to be your best bet.

If you want raw power and cheap bolt on mods with big gains, I'd suggest an STI or EVO.

x2


This has been debated many times, but if you can afford the 335i, then thats a no-brainer.

If you want something a little less expensive with comparable luxury, decent power, and better handling, get an A4.

If you're in highschool and/or enjoy street racing, then the EVO or STi is the car for you.

[Koby]

Look at what the GTI guys do with the 2.0 to see the car's potential. What you are observing is that for the most part, the B7 A4 community picks a different combination of power, luxury and style. Depends on what your bottom line is, if power is #1 then the A4 isn't the best choice.

The motor is certainly capable if you are committed to getting it there, with the same modding strategy as you'd find in any other turbo car, although maybe costlier.

Other big deterrent is service, Audi's are not cheap to fix if you get denied on a warranty claim.

[Bmeister]

...It seems to be the consensus here that a chipped A4 is still not as fast as a stock G. Am I wrong about this? I would just like to know if there is any way to make some good horsepower numbers on the A4 2.0T without spending thousands of dollars on an upgraded turbo kit.

If you are looking for top street performance on the cheap, the A4 is certainly not the car for that intended purpose. You CAN get it into the 12s and retain the luxury and comfort, but how fast do you want to spend?

Considering you stated you like everything else about it, depending on your mechanic you would need to spend ~$10,000 (incl labor) for a GT28 turbo upgrade, clutch upgrade, HP fuel pump upgrade, injectors upgraded and a special REVO (or other) chip tune. With a 6spd manual transmission and good driving skills, you will easily be in the 12s. One of my customers who first interested me in the A4 is running high 12s at his track in Michigan and he is an amateur driver at best when it comes to running a quarter track.

The thing you must consider is if the car you're looking for is a daily driver or not. You can get better performance from other cars (i.e. BMW 335) but you have to love their foibles. I personally find the BMW 3-series ugly and the interiors boring/bland and the 5-series I'm not much more fond of either. You may, however, believe otherwise.

FWIW, I had a G35 several years ago and find the REVO chipped A4 ("Stage 1") with manual transmission quicker, better handling and more comfortable than the G35. Good luck on your search.

[gpxluke]

I think the A4 already does pretty good after it's chipped...Look at it this way, the G35 has a V6 while the A4 is only a 4 banger w/ a tiny turbo, I think it's already doing its job really well....

As the others have said, if you want something luxury + more performance get the 335. It can have this massive power w/ only a chip~~~

[Slo.Mo.Shun.]

my car on stage II+ dogs g37s. And that was with my old faulty intank. Now the car spins third from a roll.

[Hockenheim]

For a compact luxury car that's fuel efficient and sporty its perfect

[Auditude2.0T]

I have a GT28 A4 and i really love it. Is it as fast as similarly modded STI or Evo no but for the whole package i wouldn't trade for any of the above. I have some money in my car but power wise, appearence wise, and over all package wise the only factory cars i would trade my car for are a M3, RS4 or C63. Never in a million years would i trade it for a rice rocket because evos and stis may be fast and "cool" but there still ricer.

[vtracer20]

as for a stock car the stock turbo 2.0t doens't do it enough. It needs about 30-50hp as a stock car to be really fun to drive. The weakness with our cars is the weight. The main thing that has going for our cars is the awd and interior. When compared to similar classed cars ours wins hands down. power is our weakness.

[Don Supreme]

You're comparing very different cars. The 335 is a twin turbo 6 cylinder. Evo's and STI's have big ass turbos and slightly larger 4 cyl engines. I love my A4, and with a tuned ECU, it's pretty quick, but the small stock turbo isn't going to have the tuning potential that the cars you listed have.

Your best bet would be to see if you can go to a meet in your area and ask someone with a re-flash to take you for a ride. At least this way, you'll know what you're gettin in to.

Evos and STI's do not come with "BIG ASS TURBOs" and the EVO has a 2 liter engine just like your car.

[elwigglero]

Evos and STI's do not come with "BIG ASS TURBOs" and the EVO has a 2 liter engine just like your car.

Helpful post.

Sorry Don. You're right. The Evo is a 2.0 and the STI is a 2.5. The Evo makes about 300 hp and runs 20 psi all day stock. A4 is 12 psi or so. You telling me that's not a bigger turbo? Should I have quantified "big ass"?

[melloyelloguy]

Your G35 is V6 engine while a A4 is still a inline 4 engine. The cars are not even compareable. Granted if that your price range you can get more hp with the G35 but drive the S5 and you'll understand.

[Alkemix]

I think what babbagandu is getting at is... why is the A4 so underpowered stock. A 2.0L turbocharged engine is better than 1.8, but doesn't give a lot of potential for huge power gains outside of strapping on a new turbo kit... any non turbo car can benefit tremendously from doing the exact same thing, only we get a smaller gain since we're already turbo charged.

He wants a sporty luxury car and it seems the A4 has got the looks, but lacks to go and it can be disappointing to see a car that nice not put out as expected.

All i can say is, at least it doesn't drive like an IS 250.

[MrB]

you're not going to see over 230-250whp without upgrading your turbo.

see: http://en.bsr.se/products/t903/

and: http://en.bsr.se/products/t903/chart/

[Glassnpowder98]

see: http://en.bsr.se/products/t903/

and: http://en.bsr.se/products/t903/chart/

Man, those websites are terrible and hard to understand what's going on... Furthermore, I'm pretty sure they're talking about 276hp to the crank and not to the wheels because they mention stock is 196hp which is stock hp to the crank. A simple Revo tune produces around 250hp to the crank, but that is only about 180-190hp to the wheels...

So to clear things up, when I said 230-250whp, I meant 230-250 wheel horsepower. I actually meant to say 230-250awhp (all wheel hp) because you will see more hp with a FWD car due to less drivetrain loss.

[MrB]

sorry m8 I did not read/see the whp

[Glassnpowder98]

sorry m8 I did not read/see the whp

All good brotha! I've never heard of that company before, but it seems like they have put together a pretty aggressive tune!

[Don Supreme]

Helpful post.

Sorry Don. You're right. The Evo is a 2.0 and the STI is a 2.5. The Evo makes about 300 hp and runs 20 psi all day stock. A4 is 12 psi or so. You telling me that's not a bigger turbo? Should I have quantified "big ass"?

The Evo does come with a larger turbo than the A4, but nothing that can be honestly referred to as a "Big Ass Turbo".... more like baby turbo in the grand scheme of things.

PSI has nothing to do with the size of the turbo. A stock evo 9 probably peaks @ 20 psi and drops to 16 psi @ red line, but a chipped b7 could probably do the same thing (but still not make as much power).

PSI is not flow. The stock Evo turbo can flow a good bit more than the b7 stock turbo --- Its all about flow.

[RedS-line]

Going from a more powerful, lighter infiniti to a heavier and slower A4 is only going to depress you in terms of power unless you plan on changing the turbo. the stock k03 can only be pushed so far. People are pushing 23 psi on this tiny turbo and while the torque is great, the hp leaves u wanting more.

[elwigglero]

The Evo does come with a larger turbo than the A4, but nothing that can be honestly referred to as a "Big Ass Turbo".... more like baby turbo in the grand scheme of things.

PSI has nothing to do with the size of the turbo. A stock evo 9 probably peaks @ 20 psi and drops to 16 psi @ red line, but a chipped b7 could probably do the same thing (but still not make as much power).

PSI is not flow. The stock Evo turbo can flow a good bit more than the b7 stock turbo --- Its all about flow.

I understand that, but from factory a turbo that peaks at a higher psi will be manufactured differently than one peaking at a lower psi. This is done in order to keep a turbo well within its limits, so it can be reliable. ECU tuning just pushes those limits a bit. It may not be a "big ass" turbo, but it definitely is bigger because it is designed to make more power from factory. Either way, an EVO/STI is a different car designed for a different purpose/demographic than the A4. I used to wish that I would have went for a new white Evo, but after the APR 93 flash, I'm a pretty happy camper.

[jimrobbington]

This is retarded! You can't compare the a4 to the STI or EVO. The a4 is a luxury class vehicle, whereas the STI is made stock to be in the "fast and furious" class. Yeah, you can build an a4 to be as fast. Is the STI as nice a car? No. Can you build an STI to be faster than an a4 can ever be? Yes. Compare an RS4 to an STI, they are in the same class, and the RS4 will beat the shit out of an STI in the long run. What does an STI weigh? even 3000 lbs? My a4 weighs about 3600 lbs stock. That's all luxury, noise reduction, etc... I promise you an STI will be noisier on the inside, less comfortable, less safe, and way more common. You want to drive around and see that every 18 year old douchebag in the world drives the same car as you, somehow has more money to put into it than you, and thinks he's top shit cuz he has a bullshit car that is mass produced to race? No, you want a great car that's fast, that is much more unique in the world of tuners. I'm sick of anyone who owns and Sti, Evo, or even the most bullshit car, the SRT4, thinking they are badass because their car was built off the line faster than mine. I can't wait to build my car up and smoke some teenage punk in his ricer. Thankyou. My rant is over.

[Insane_Audi]

This is retarded! You can't compare the a4 to the STI or EVO. The a4 is a luxury class vehicle, whereas the STI is made stock to be in the "fast and furious" class. Yeah, you can build an a4 to be as fast. Is the STI as nice a car? No. Can you build an STI to be faster than an a4 can ever be? Yes. Compare an RS4 to an STI, they are in the same class, and the RS4 will beat the shit out of an STI in the long run. What does an STI weigh? even 3000 lbs? My a4 weighs about 3600 lbs stock. That's all luxury, noise reduction, etc... I promise you an STI will be noisier on the inside, less comfortable, less safe, and way more common. You want to drive around and see that every 18 year old douchebag in the world drives the same car as you, somehow has more money to put into it than you, and thinks he's top shit cuz he has a bullshit car that is mass produced to race? No, you want a great car that's fast, that is much more unique in the world of tuners. I'm sick of anyone who owns and Sti, Evo, or even the most bullshit car, the SRT4, thinking they are badass because their car was built off the line faster than mine. I can't wait to build my car up and smoke some teenage punk in his ricer. Thankyou. My rant is over.

im scared

[jimrobbington]

im scared

I'm sorry, I didn't mean to frighten you. I got caught up in the moment.

[scottie92]

I'm in the same situation here, in the process of parting out my G35 coupe and get a certified B7 s-line, I'm drawn to the A4 because of its aesthetics and interior, plus with a tune and minor bolt-ons I think it'll make more than decent power for daily driving. Plus, you have appreciate the quite, solid built feel of the A4, not to mention the excellent safety features and the famous Quattro AWD.

[TX-A4]

.....and the famous Quattro AWD.

Fixed it for ya!

[scottie92]

Fixed it for ya!

crap yes I meant FAMOUS

[nick71692]

I just recently got into it with a brand new evo with a huge exhaust out the back and I can say while i didnt beat him i was pretty suprised how well i hung with him on the highway. Overall i would never trade my a4 for a shitty ass evo or sti even if it is faster. Everything about the evo is obnoxious, the big wing the big exhaust the loud ass sound, overall it is a metal body with a turbo motor and seats. A shit can with wheels. Get the A4 man I can say that i would be embarrased if i owned an evo and my coworkers saw me getting out of the car in my suit, however i feel proud getting out of my a4 with a suit, in fact i feel like a baller (j/k)

[A4RingPimp]

no

[sukhoidad]

As has been said above, it depends on what you are looking for in a car. The STI and Evo are geared more for performance (hp, brakes, etc.) and compromise in other areas (comfort, fit and finish) I've read articles that say that the Evo has great performance numbers, but the rattles and quality of the "non-performance" related components allow the price to be where it is. Seeing an Evo in person reminds me of a butter face....all business, but she doesn't look that sexy.

So if you are after straight performance, the Evo or STI is probably the way to go.

[excelT4]

no

completely agree

[PSI NRG]

Evos actually run a relatively big turbo... Evo 8s run a 16g with a 10.5cm hot side. Evo9's run 20g's which is much larger as u can see in the pic. For a compairison those turbos are about the size of a gt28