450HP Turbo Kit for B7 Audi A4 2.0T FSI

[Geoffafa]

...coming soon to a smurf near you

[Arin@APR]

Ahhh, 450 HP kit is a bit of false advertising. Technically someone could just strap a huge turbo on a manifold and say "600 HP KIT" without any extra text.

Things to take into consideration to get the advertised power this kit claims:

1. You'll need fueling and other hardware. Where will you get this? What will you use?
2. You'll need software. Who will tune it? What other hardware will they require?
3. What octane fuel will you use to make the claimed 450 HP? Don't expect to get that on 93 octane alone!
4. How will the power delivery look? These engines are a bit RPM limited before valve float with the HPFP begins to occur so this top number may be provided with a very small power band. Keep that in mind!
5. Reliability.........

I'd love to sell everyone our kit, but I know it's not for everyone. There are some people looking to make purpose built drag cars, and a bigger turbo with custom tuning may be the way to go. So, I'm just saying, know what you're looking at before you start drooling. ;)

[marty was here]

Ahhh, 450 HP kit is a bit of false advertising. Technically someone could just strap a huge turbo on a manifold and say "600 HP KIT" without any extra text.

Things to take into consideration to get the advertised power this kit claims:

1. You'll need fueling and other hardware. Where will you get this? What will you use?
2. You'll need software. Who will tune it? What other hardware will they require?
3. What octane fuel will you use to make the claimed 450 HP? Don't expect to get that on 93 octane alone!
4. How will the power delivery look? These engines are a bit RPM limited before valve float with the HPFP begins to occur so this top number may be provided with a very small power band. Keep that in mind!
5. Reliability.........

I'd love to sell everyone our kit, but I know it's not for everyone. There are some people looking to make purpose built drag cars, and a bigger turbo with custom tuning may be the way to go. So, I'm just saying, know what you're looking at before you start drooling. ;)

is it true these kits are working on MKVs?

[grmntoy]

5. Reliability.........
Whats reliable these days??????? your fuel pumps ...chips??? when you go 450hp nothings reliable ,it becomes a drag car. My .02 cents. I am drooling over the price range their giving!!!Especially these days people are looking for the best price range for a lil speed. Kmd is selling the 350hp mild complete kit with all the other aspects to make it run for less than $2995.Is that prone to failure also??? let me guess noone will know unless we do extensive experiments for 3 years. Let me run this for 3 years at 18 psi and i'll get back to use .Ohh and ill keep the extra $2000 or so under tha matress if it does break down!

[eskimopunk]

5. Reliability.........
Whats reliable these days??????? your fuel pumps ...chips??? when you go 450hp nothings reliable ,it becomes a drag car. My .02 cents. I am drooling over the price range their giving!!!Especially these days people are looking for the best price range for a lil speed. Kmd is selling the 350hp mild complete kit with all the other aspects to make it run for less than $2995.Is that prone to failure also??? let me guess noone will know unless we do extensive experiments for 3 years. Let me run this for 3 years at 18 psi and i'll get back to use .Ohh and ill keep the extra $2000 or so under tha matress if it does break down!

lol this made me laugh, in a good way. good point

[bloodstar57]

5. Reliability.........
Whats reliable these days??????? your fuel pumps ...chips??? when you go 450hp nothings reliable ,it becomes a drag car. My .02 cents. I am drooling over the price range their giving!!!Especially these days people are looking for the best price range for a lil speed. Kmd is selling the 350hp mild complete kit with all the other aspects to make it run for less than $2995.Is that prone to failure also??? let me guess noone will know unless we do extensive experiments for 3 years. Let me run this for 3 years at 18 psi and i'll get back to use .Ohh and ill keep the extra $2000 or so under tha matress if it does break down!

LOL


Arin@APR how you could not achieve this on 93 octane? (serious question)

[I495 Bandit]

This is what you would need to to get this kit running.

1. Software (Revo or Unitronic has a file for this turbo).

2. Rs4 injectors to match the software.

3. HPFP upgrade. Doesn't really matter which one but APR's is probably the most comprehensive out of the bunch.

4. FMIC with a least a 2.5" ID in and out.

5. ATP's 3" MAF housing if the kit doesn't come with it.

6. 3" intake from turbo to air box

7. One step colder sparkplugs

8. Upgraded DV & PCV valve

9. Possibly rods, depends how linear the torque curve is and how good of a tune the BT file is.


10. Stage 3 or better clutch.

11. CB exhaust

I think that's about it. Now how much all these supporting mode is going to cost you on top of the ATP kit price is another story.

I hope this came out right. I wrote all this from my shitty as iPhone! LOL


9.

6.

4

[A4ringedONE8T]

is it true these kits are working on MKVs?

Yes, REVO makes a file for the ATP T3 3071R setup for the transverse 2.0T

It makes approx 350whp on pump gas and on race gas the car used for tuning has made 509whp with the ATP setup. Only internal mods being IE drop in rods, stock pistons, stock valvetrain. APR HPFP and RS4 Injectors

[David2739]

In Holland we have these kits for the 2.0TFSI.

JD-Powerpack


Stage 1
Chiptuning 245pk 350Nm € 690,=

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Stage 2
Compleet uitlaatsysteem & chiptuning stage 2 (incl. montage) 265pk 385Nm € 2390,=

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Stage 3
Complete turboset incl. turbo, spruitstuk, slangen , pakkingen enz.. incl. spec. Bougies aangepaste benzinedruk, Powercontroller, meerdere standen en versnellingsafhankelijk & Chiptuning op maat, op rollenbank (incl. montage) 310pk 390Nm € 4590,=

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Stage 4
Complete turboset incl. turbo, spruitstuk, slangen , pakkingen enz.. incl. spec. Bougies, aangepaste benzinedruk, Powercontroller, meerdere standen en versnellingsafhankelijk Compleet uitlaatsysteem & Chiptuning op maat, op rollenbank (incl. montage) 323pk 400Nm € 6190,=

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Stage 5
Complete turboset incl.ballbearing turbo, speciaal spruitstuk incl. buizen leidingen, filter , grotere Luchtmassameter enz.. incl. spec. Bougies, aangepaste benzinedruk, Grotere injectoren, grotere benzinepomp Gesmede zuigers met lagere compressie, H-profiel drijfstangen Speciale lagers, koppaking enz.. Powercontroller, meerdere standen en versnellingsafhankelijk Compleet uitlaatsysteem & Chiptuning op maat, op rollenbank 376pk 445Nm

Montage € 14.970,=

€ 2470,=

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Stage 6
Complete turboset incl.dual ballbearing turbo, speciaal spruitstuk incl. buizen leidingen, Airbox en filter , grotere Luchtmassameter enz.. incl. spec. Bougies aangepaste benzinedruk, grotere benzinepomp Grotere injectoren, grotere benzinepomp Gesmede zuigers met lagere compressie, H-profiel drijfstangen Speciale lagers, koppaking enz.. Diverse extra modifcaties Powercontroller, meerdere standen en versnellingsafhankelijk Speciale koppelingset Compleet uitlaatsysteem & Chiptuning op maat, op rollenbank 416pk 490Nm

Montage € 16.980,=

€ 2960,=

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Stage 7
Complete turboset incl.Twinscroll ballbearing turbo, speciaal spruitstuk incl. buizen leidingen, Airbox en filter , grotere Luchtmassameter enz.. incl. spec. Bougies aangepaste benzinedruk, grotere benzinepomp Grotere injectoren, 2e grotere benzinepomp plus catchtank Speciaal inlaatspruitstuk met 4 extra injectoren en gallery. Gesmede zuigers met lagere compressie, H-profiel drijfstangen Speciale lagers, koppaking enz.. Diverse extra modifcaties Powercontroller, meerdere standen en versnellingsafhankelijk Speciale koppelingset Compleet uitlaatsysteem & Chiptuning op maat, op rollenbank 470pk 560Nm

Montage € p.o.a

€ p.o.a.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Stage 8
Complete turboset incl.Twinscroll ballbearing turbo, speciaal spruitstuk in voorbereiding/testfase >500pk 600Nm

Montage € p.o.a

€ p.o.a.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a2oGF...tml/media.html

http://www.jdengineering.nl/

I'm sorry I don't have the time to translate, but the numbers say enough.

P.s. At stage 5 they also change the pistons, H profile connecting rod, packings and the bearings of the enigine.

Can't believe you have 450HP for 3000 dollar....

[slimmj0k3r]

Yes, REVO makes a file for the ATP T3 3071R setup for the transverse 2.0T

It makes approx 350whp on pump gas and on race gas the car used for tuning has made 509whp with the ATP setup. Only internal mods being IE drop in rods, stock pistons, stock valvetrain. APR HPFP and RS4 Injectors

I hope you're not reffering to Jeff (jc@douglas) on vortex with the revo tune. He isnt running stock pistons he has Scat rods, with JE Pistons.

it has to be him i'm pretty sure there are no other revo tuned mkv's running 509whp. that i've heard about. USP is or was at like 600whp but they were off an APR kit with some of their own stuf + race gas

[Mike@APR]

LOL


Arin@APR how you could not achieve this on 93 octane? (serious question)

Arin didn't do any of the tuning. But I did with the help of one other engineer here at APR. What is exactly is your question? Could you elaborate?

I just want to be clear on your exact question so I can give a clear answer.

Thanks,

Mike

[juggernaut201]

some one buy this so we know what the deal is

[viperdsa]

Someone give me 5k and I will take the leap of faith to see if it work well.

[juggernaut201]

lmao i will take the same deal lol wouldnt want anyone fighting over who gets 2 give him 5k if we have mor ethen one offer loll

[viperdsa]

Has anyone looked at the KKK hybrid turbos? I know most people go with Garrett turbos for BT kits, but what about getting an exhaust manifold and a hybrid KKK turbo?
http://www.034motorsport.com/index.php?cPath=21_101

[A4ringedONE8T]

lmao i will take the same deal lol wouldnt want anyone fighting over who gets 2 give him 5k if we have mor ethen one offer loll

Cant anyone put up there own money to better the performance options available for the platform? Absolutely no reason that you can't make it work, you just have to do whats needed and be positive about completing the setup. If no one ever tried new things we would all be driving around in stock, slow ass cars. Grow some balls and stop waiting for everyone else to do the work. If your wanting more power, figure out how to get it done. Anyone could have put this hardware kit together, even in 05' when the B7's came out ...

[Grassmonkey]

THe exhaust manifold as shown by ATP is for a transverse engine, I already tried their transverse manifold, and the turbo hit the motor mount.
ATP's advice was to modify the motor mount bracket. Thats something I'm not prepared to do, and it looks like it might be necessary with this setup.
Just FYI

[viperdsa]

I sent an e-mail asking about the manifold and how it looked just like the transverse one. They said the one for the A4 uses the same cast but is machined differently.

[rnp614]

I sent an e-mail asking about the manifold and how it looked just like the transverse one. They said the one for the A4 uses the same cast but is machined differently.

Yowza, talk about bad design. (whoops, meant to quote the grassmonkey post)

[bloodstar57]

Arin didn't do any of the tuning. But I did with the help of one other engineer here at APR. What is exactly is your question? Could you elaborate?

I just want to be clear on your exact question so I can give a clear answer.

Thanks,

Mike

"What octane fuel will you use to make the claimed 450 HP? Don't expect to get that on 93 octane alone!"

Why couldn't you run 450 hp on 93 octane?

[grmntoy]

"What octane fuel will you use to make the claimed 450 HP? Don't expect to get that on 93 octane alone!"

Why couldn't you run 450 hp on 93 octane?

Dont even ask them that question, they'll spit out some kinda formula from the engineering room that they calculated to tell us its impossible that anything will work lol

[Mike@APR]

"What octane fuel will you use to make the claimed 450 HP? Don't expect to get that on 93 octane alone!"

Why couldn't you run 450 hp on 93 octane?

What claimed 450hp are you referring to from APR? Nobody from APR made any claims about 450hp. The advertisement of a 450hp turbo kit is coming from ATP. ATP is selling a hardware-only kit minus fueling components and minus software that they claim is capable of 450hp. This has nothing to do with APR. For not having a single dyno plot or tuner supporting the ATP hardware package yet, it's funny how everyone takes the 450hp number as law. Yet, at the same time, if APR puts out a power curve for a kit where we have spent many months, and sometimes more than a year working on, everyone questions the numbers and picks them apart. I don't mind the scrutiny, but it's just a funny situation sometimes. If it means we are being held to a higher standard, that can only mean good things for APR and our customers.

Anyway...

APR is offering a Stage 3 turbo kit for the B7 A4 that makes 375hp on 93 octane fuel. The reason for not making 450hp on 93 octane is simple. At 375hp on 93 octane, you have reached the knock limit of the engine for this fuel and the Exhaust Gas Temperature (EGT) limit need to ensure the safety and longevity of the engine and turbo. Remember, these engines have 10.3:1 compression ratio. This is relatively high for a turbo car and you must properly tune to ensure a decent level of spark advance such that your EGT's are safe under all conditions. So, just turning up the boost can work for some peak power number, but not for longevity.

I think 375hp on 93 octane is a very nice and powerful package. I drive this package everyday as I own an APR Stage 3 B7 A4. The car is powerful, responsive, torquey, and safe. On the 93 octane file, the car is only running an N75 duty cycle of about 65% with the APR Stage 3 with GT2871R turbo. There is plenty of headroom left for a race gas file that I will be working on soon. Our dyno has recently been booked up solid so I have not yet returned to the dyno for the B7 Stage 3 race file yet. I will be using 100 octane unleaded for this file. I look forward to sharing this data with the AZ crowd.

Also, one item of note: All the APR power and torque numbers were made using the stock B7 side mount intercoolers.

If anyone has any technical questions about what I have stated here, feel free to ask. I am a B7 owner so I am here to support this forum.

[Mike@APR]

Dont even ask them that question, they'll spit out some kinda formula from the engineering room that they calculated to tell us its impossible that anything will work lol

I am very proud of my engineering degree and professional experience, before and during my employment at APR. I am not here to tell you what to do with your car and who you should trust to tune it. But I will say the following:

- Yes, I am an actual engineer with a college degree who left a Fortune 100 company to come to APR and live out my dreams making wonderful cars faster. I couldn't be happier.
- If you don't like your tuning companies employing the best tools and talent they can find, you are really going to hate APR. There are some amazing people in this place that humble me daily and amaze me at the things they can accomplish. Not a bash toward any other company, just a statement about a great group of engineers and technicians that I happen to be a part of.

If you have any questions about APR or our products, feel free to ask.

Mike@APR
Mechanical Engineer/Engine Calibrator

[rnp614]

What claimed 450hp are you referring to from APR? Nobody from APR made any claims about 450hp. The advertisement of a 450hp turbo kit is coming from ATP. ATP is selling a hardware-only kit minus fueling components and minus software that they claim is capable of 450hp. This has nothing to do with APR. For not having a single dyno plot or tuner supporting the ATP hardware package yet, it's funny how everyone takes the 450hp number as law. Yet, at the same time, if APR puts out a power curve for a kit where we have spent many months, and sometimes more than a year working on, everyone questions the numbers and picks them apart. I don't mind the scrutiny, but it's just a funny situation sometimes. If it means we are being held to a higher standard, that can only mean good things for APR and our customers.

Anyway...

APR is offering a Stage 3 turbo kit for the B7 A4 that makes 375hp on 93 octane fuel. The reason for not making 450hp on 93 octane is simple. At 375hp on 93 octane, you have reached the knock limit of the engine for this fuel and the Exhaust Gas Temperature (EGT) limit need to ensure the safety and longevity of the engine and turbo. Remember, these engines have 10.3:1 compression ratio. This is relatively high for a turbo car and you must properly tune to ensure a decent level of spark advance such that your EGT's are safe under all conditions. So, just turning up the boost can work for some peak power number, but not for longevity.

I think 375hp on 93 octane is a very nice and powerful package. I drive this package everyday as I own an APR Stage 3 B7 A4. The car is powerful, responsive, torquey, and safe. On the 93 octane file, the car is only running an N75 duty cycle of about 65% with the APR Stage 3 with GT2871R turbo. There is plenty of headroom left for a race gas file that I will be working on soon. Our dyno has recently been booked up solid so I have not yet returned to the dyno for the B7 Stage 3 race file yet. I will be using 100 octane unleaded for this file. I look forward to sharing this data with the AZ crowd.

Also, one item of note: All the APR power and torque numbers were made using the stock B7 side mount intercoolers.

If anyone has any technical questions about what I have stated here, feel free to ask. I am a B7 owner so I am here to support this forum.

You're talking about the power plots for K04 and Stage 3? I thought you require FMICs for Stage 3 folks?

[Mike@APR]

You're talking about the power plots for K04 and Stage 3? I thought you require FMICs for Stage 3 folks?

Yes I am. And we do recommend an upgraded intercooler for the Stage 3 folks and K04 folks (kit not yet released). I don't recommend that anyone run with the stock intercoolers at this boost and power level. They can get heat soaked very quickly. The ECU tuning will protect the engine at that point; we have set it up that way. But that's not much fun.

At the time the power numbers were finalized, we were still waiting for prototypes of our B7 intercooler end tanks and custom cores to arrive. However, we had also done testing with a mock-up of a potential B7 intercooler design. I am currently running a Beta version of the APR B7 intercooler design that we will finish developing for production release and will assess my car with this FMIC using 93/91 octane on the dyno before I move on to start testing with 100 octane.

So in summary, I have run the APR B7 Stage 3 with the stock SMIC's, a mock-up FMIC, and now I am running the fully tooled Beta version of the APR B7 IC. However, since we did not have our production intercooler at the time, the released numbers are from a car with stock SMIC's. Running like this also helped me collect data about the performance of the car when temps get hot. This is cruicial for our customers who will run at high altitudes or in really hot climates.

[viperdsa]

Hey Mike, just wondering why does no one use the KKK hybrid turbos?

[Mike@APR]

Hey Mike, just wondering why does no one use the KKK hybrid turbos?

I am not sure what would be the purpose of running a KKK hybrid. Why do you think this would be an attractive option?

Here's my $0.02:
1. Since the 2.0T FSI has an integraded manifold and turbine housing from the factory and we upgraded to the APR Inconel FSI Exhaust Manifold, there was no reason to keep any of the OEM turbo hardware. Some people used to run KKK hybrids so that they can find a turbo that fits directly or comes close to mating up to the stock manifold and plumbing. Since we are replacing the biggest piece of exhaust plumbing, the exhaust manifold, with the APR Inconel investment cast unit, there is really no advantage in a KKK hybrid. Not to mention, there isn't a KKK hybrid that fits directly on a 2.0T FSI given the fact that the factory manifold and turbine housing are part of the same casting.

2. When moving to a larger turbo with more inertia, a dual ball bearing design like the GT2871R we are using makes good sense for spool up. So this precluded the use of any of the journal bearing turbos.

3. As a Garrett "Engineering House", we have the option to buy turbo components and mix and match them as we see fit to develop the product in a way that meets our performance goals while still getting any needed technical support from Garrett.

I hope this answers your question. However, I still want to know what your thoughts were on the KKK hybrids.

[viperdsa]

I was actually talking about these hybrid,
http://www.034motorsport.com/index.php?cPath=21_101

[Mike@APR]

I was actually talking about these hybrid,
http://www.034motorsport.com/index.php?cPath=21_101

I know. So was I.

[viperdsa]

Then why wouldn't it be woth it to get an aftermarket exhaust manifold and one of those turbos? My main reason for looking at those was that I wouldn't have to bother with changing the exhaist flange to fit a Garrett turbo.

[Mike@APR]

Then why wouldn't it be woth it to get an aftermarket exhaust manifold and one of those turbos?

Since you brought up these turbos, let me turn the question back at you. Why are you so interested in one of these turbos? Which one strikes your fancy and why? Why do you want a KKK turbine housing and Garrett compressor housing for your 2.0T FSI? What do you think the advantages are?

I personally don't see any advantages for running a KKK hybrid turbo on the 2.0T FSI. I can get anything I want and more from Garrett and customize it to work with various engine parameters, plumbing, etc. I am not saying there's anything wrong with the KKK hybrids, but it doesn't provide me any benefits when setting up a 2.0T FSI for a big turbo application. I can't see a performance or fitment advantage.

Also, as far as changing the exhaust flange, how are you sure that these turbos land in the same spot as your factory turbo when mounted to a new exhaust manifold? Do you really think everything is going to line right up so that you can just keep all of your existing exhaust plumbing? I can tell you this, even KKK (aka Borg Warner) has variations in their exhaust flanges. Just look at a 2.0TFSI in the A4 and compare it to a 2.0T FSI in the GTI. The factory Borg Warner turbos have different exhaust flanges in these cars for the same basic engine.

[viperdsa]

I edited my post to say why.
I'm prolly going to be piecing together a BT kit over the next year or two. The big thing that I was trying to avoid was having to fiddle with the exhaust flange. But after looking a little more at the options for the GT3071R it looks like they might have an option that could be a direct bolt up to the exhaust. I don't see it for the 2871 though.

No i doubt that they will line up right, but in my mind it seems easier to shorten the cat some (LaBree cat not stock) then having to go to a TP to get the taper right from the 5 bolt flange.

[Mike@APR]

I edited my post to say why.
I'm prolly going to be piecing together a BT kit over the next year or two. The big thing that I was trying to avoid was having to fiddle with the exhaust flange. But after looking a little more at the options for the GT2871R & GT3071R it looks like they might have an option that could be a direct bolt up to the exhaust.

Since you are piecing together a kit with one person's manifold and another person's this or that, I doubt that it will all just bolt up together unless the companies got together to plan it that way. Even if the turbine exit flange technically bolts up to the exhaust, that doesn't mean they will all bolt together once the manifold comes into play. If you are going to piece together a kit, these are things you have to be prepared for. You also have to make sure that the turbo mounted on the manifold doesn't come into contact with the motor mount. Or you could save up for an APR Stage 3 and have a turn-key solution that will bolt on and go. Sorry, I had to say that. But I still stand by what I said, I wouldn't choose my turbo based on the hopes that it will bolt up to the exhaust because unless it's designed that way, it probably won't.

[viperdsa]

In the end I might just end up going with one of ATP's different setups that they will release. I want to stay away from a TP though. Only if I win some money in the lotto or get lucky like Sal will I be able to get your stage 3 kit.

[grmntoy]

I am very proud of my engineering degree and professional experience, before and during my employment at APR. I am not here to tell you what to do with your car and who you should trust to tune it. But I will say the following:

- Yes, I am an actual engineer with a college degree who left a Fortune 100 company to come to APR and live out my dreams making wonderful cars faster. I couldn't be happier.
- If you don't like your tuning companies employing the best tools and talent they can find, you are really going to hate APR. There are some amazing people in this place that humble me daily and amaze me at the things they can accomplish. Not a bash toward any other company, just a statement about a great group of engineers and technicians that I happen to be a part of.

If you have any questions about APR or our products, feel free to ask.

Mike@APR
Mechanical Engineer/Engine Calibrator

Listen this forum is for the 450hp and beyond. Not for an APR kit. Arin made a remark that these kits are false advertisements and I really dont understand why he mad that remark. I've seen your kits,I've installed your kits and their nice simple kits.Ive also installed Atp kits , great kits also but yeah you have to sit down and think with them, and I think those kits are for diffrent goals certain customers are trying to achieve. I'm not bashing your expertise, I'm bashing the reason Arin and you came in here to chime in and say these kits are unlagit. I'm and aerospace engineer, not in the same field as you , but i do love to work on vehicles , especially audi/vw's. I have one question since I got you on this forum, when are you going to build a RELIABLE fuel pump capable for us little guys to not have to inspect it every so often. A couple of threads back ,theres a client of yours that had his fuel pump failed , and the information I got from the thread was that the Audi dealer was pointing at you, while Apr was pointing at audi for the apparent failure in engineering design they created when designing the pump and the essential components related to it.I dont want to get into it really. All I'm saying is why come out with a pump when you know this design from the core is a failure. Why didnt you spend a little more time resolving this aparent issue which all of you engineers know about and get it resolved since you are selling the pump $500 more than AWE, Autotech and KMD.In my field this would have cost lives and id probably be investigated by the FAA and maybe even locked up. Anyway enough said on my part, the whole reason I created this forum was because there are other alternatives other than APR that can create power, maybe not as efficient and RELIABLE but I sure can beat your kit if i can install it.Happy tuning evryone!!!!
STREET ENGINEERS TAKE IT TO THE NEXT LEVEL!!!!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CWAm7uMTfyI

[Quattro]

subscribing...

[eskimopunk]

subscribing...

x2

[GhostSquadGarage]

x3

[Mike@APR]

Listen this forum is for the 450hp and beyond. Not for an APR kit. Arin made a remark that these kits are false advertisements and I really dont understand why he mad that remark. I've seen your kits,I've installed your kits and their nice simple kits.Ive also installed Atp kits , great kits also but yeah you have to sit down and think with them, and I think those kits are for diffrent goals certain customers are trying to achieve. I'm not bashing your expertise, I'm bashing the reason Arin and you came in here to chime in and say these kits are unlagit. I'm and aerospace engineer, not in the same field as you , but i do love to work on vehicles , especially audi/vw's. I have one question since I got you on this forum, when are you going to build a RELIABLE fuel pump capable for us little guys to not have to inspect it every so often. A couple of threads back ,theres a client of yours that had his fuel pump failed , and the information I got from the thread was that the Audi dealer was pointing at you, while Apr was pointing at audi for the apparent failure in engineering design they created when designing the pump and the essential components related to it.I dont want to get into it really. All I'm saying is why come out with a pump when you know this design from the core is a failure. Why didnt you spend a little more time resolving this aparent issue which all of you engineers know about and get it resolved since you are selling the pump $500 more than AWE, Autotech and KMD.In my field this would have cost lives and id probably be investigated by the FAA and maybe even locked up. Anyway enough said on my part, the whole reason I created this forum was because there are other alternatives other than APR that can create power, maybe not as efficient and RELIABLE but I sure can beat your kit if i can install it.Happy tuning evryone!!!!
STREET ENGINEERS TAKE IT TO THE NEXT LEVEL!!!!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CWAm7uMTfyI

I am sorry that you are unhappy with Arin's comments but I still stand by my comments. I am not here to bash anyone and whatever they want to buy for there cars. I was only trying to answer a question about tuning that was directed at Arin but should be answered by me.

Now with that said, let me address the fuel pump items you have brought up in this thread that you state is supposed to be about ATP's kit...

Audi/VW has admitted that they have a hardness issue with some batch of their FSI intake camshafts. They have released a technical service bulletin about it. We developed the fuel pump LONG before there was any knowledge of this issue from customers or from Audi/VW. In fact, we had been running theses pumps in cars at APR, the APR SEMA GTI, and the VWoA R-GTI for some time before it became available to the public. Before ever turning a single RPM with our pump, we calculated all the design parameters and potential risk and were evaluating them based on this information. All of a sudden, Audi/VW announces they have a hardness issue that may have bled over to all model years but will only be covered by a TSB, not a warranty recall. As soon as we were aware of the situation, we started informing our customers to inspect their camshafts before and during the service life of the fuel pump. The inspection is what we feel is prduent given the nature of the issues that may come up if the camshaft lobe fails.

Also, a solution to this problem cannot be made with some "bolt-on" fix. The solution has to involve a new camshaft. Since there are so many customers out there like you who like to "street" engineer everything and pay the cheapest price possible, it becomes difficult to explain to folks that this is not an easy fix and will cost money. I have already conceptuallized a fix for the Audi/VW issue of poor camshaft hardness, but guys like you would not pay for it. How does this reflect poorly on our fuel pump? It is still the most well engineered FSI pump solution on the market. That's why VW Motorsport has adopted it.

In addition, how could you challenge the engineering quality of our pump in one breath and then bring up pricing in the next? If you want a truly engineered solution, you surely understand that it costs money. From a quality standpoint, we are the ONLY people providing a tried and tested product before it leaves our door. From a pricing standpoint, for $649 you can send in your fuel pump and we will check it, rebuild it, and check it again on a custom designed flow bench made in-house at APR specifically for this pump. Can you make the same claims from the other names you mentioned? Also, if I come out with a camshaft and follower pair that fixes Audi/VW's camshaft weakness, are you going to buy it? The fuel pump is very reliable. Paired with a properly hardened camshaft, you should have no worries. However, if you want real reliability, this setup should have a roller follower, not a sliding tappett. This is the true achilles heal. But you need a different cam profile to run a roller compared to a slider. I am sure "company x" will come out with one next week without requiring a new cam and people will buy it just because it's cheap.

I will leave now and let you guys dicuss the ATP kit. I only intended on participating in this thread because some questions were directed at a colleague who I felt could use my help answering since I am one of the engineers directly involved in these engines.

[grmntoy]

HERES A LAUGH!!!!! ATP JUST SENT ME THIS CLASSIFIED VIDEO!!!!! LOL

APR LOSING A STREET RACE

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DCte8ePw9Us