*Help bad center driveshaft bearing!!

[PZWOGIV]

started hearing some weird noises from underneath my 00 S4 today so i jacked her up and found out that the driveshaft has some slop in it.. i was told that it is most likely a bad driveshaft bearing... and that i would have to replace the complete driveshaft.... is this true or can i just buy an new bearing?? i did see them for sale on ebay

[jakecro]

First, I will say that the rubber bushing that surrounds the bearing is very thin and flexible; so this may be you source of play (and the play should be minimal). Unless the rubber is degraded I would say that the bearing is fine.

You may have a bad CV joint on one or both ends of the drive shaft itself. (This is what was wrong with my drive shaft.)

you can buy a new center bearing; eBay has them, Blauparts.com also has them ($$$), and powertrainindustries.com also carries them.

I was having the same problem on my car. I would get vibrations at highway speeds as well as a loud banging in the center of the car at peak torque loads. My initial thought was a bad center support, (as I put the car on a lift and heard a squeaking while running in 1st gear) but after talking to Powertrain Industries I felt that it was the CV joints on the shaft.

You can source the joints and a full rebuild kit at Blauparts.com, but for a few more $ you can get a complete re manufactured drive shaft. I bought mine from Fleet Pride who ordered it from Powertrain Industries. (Fleet Pride was considerably cheaper that going directly throught Powertrain) ~$450

There is also another online retailer (wholesaleimportparts.com) who sells complete drive shafts for $420 including shipping. They did seem a little shady (always went to answering machine when I called) but I decided to go local with Fleet Pride in case I have a warranty issue.

Fleet Pride store locator

I'd be more than willing to help you over the phone as well if you would like. Just let me know and I will PM you my #

You can also check out these links to AudiWorld where a guy had the exact same problem:
http://forums.audiworld.com/s4/msgs/2746361.phtml
http://forums.audiworld.com/s4/msgs/2752127.phtml

-jake

[Bendy]

I think I have this same problem. After a clutch and lightweight flywheel install, I have some really bad noise and vibration at low RPM while accelerating that goes away once I cross ~2000RPM or let off the gas. It does not vibrate at all in neutral in that RPM range, so it's definitely drivetrain related. I was under the car last night with all 4 wheels up on jackstands and when my wife let the clutch out in gear I heard a clunk from the driveshaft under the exhaust heat shield. It was getting late so I didn't look further, but after reading the second symptom on this page, I believe I will find my problem in the support bearing or the u-joint.

http://blauparts.com/audi/audi_drive...pair_kit.shtml

I will post back here as the story unfolds.

[jakecro]

I think I have this same problem. After a clutch and lightweight flywheel install, I have some really bad noise and vibration at low RPM while accelerating that goes away once I cross ~2000RPM or let off the gas. It does not vibrate at all in neutral in that RPM range, so it's definitely drivetrain related. I was under the car last night with all 4 wheels up on jackstands and when my wife let the clutch out in gear I heard a clunk from the driveshaft under the exhaust heat shield. It was getting late so I didn't look further, but after reading the second symptom on this page, I believe I will find my problem in the support bearing or the u-joint.

http://blauparts.com/audi/audi_drive...pair_kit.shtml

I will post back here as the story unfolds.

My problem was in the center U-joint. When I removed the prop shaft that joint was extremely stiff which was causing the center support bushing material to deform thereby allowing the shaft to slop around.

My suggestion to you would be to replace the entire shaft with either a brand new unit or a re-manufactured one since the rebuild kit you linked to is almost the same price an entire rebuilt unit. Among the retailers I mentioned in my above post you may also source a rebuilt shaft from raxles.com. I have heard of one or two others using them for the prop shaft with good results.

[Jsmooth65]

+1 from Powertrain here. I used them and installed it no problems.

My problem was the front CV by the main cats. The heat from the cats dehydrated the grease in the CV so bad it was almost like putty. Figured I should just replace all the driveshaft so I wouldn't have to take that puppy off again when the center bearing, or u-joint, or rear CV fails.

[Bendy]

I finally got under there to inspect things and I found that the u-joint has some play in it. I believe this is the cause of my clunk. Now Blauparts sells the rebuild kit, but I can't see to source just the u-joint and whatever associated hardware goes with it by itself. I plan on calling them to see if they will just sell me that part. Just curious if anyone has found a source for just the u-joint?

[jakecro]

I finally got under there to inspect things and I found that the u-joint has some play in it. I believe this is the cause of my clunk. Now Blauparts sells the rebuild kit, but I can't see to source just the u-joint and whatever associated hardware goes with it by itself. I plan on calling them to see if they will just sell me that part. Just curious if anyone has found a source for just the u-joint?

To be honest, I wouldn't waste the time and effort to replace just the U-joint (assuming you can source it). It is much more beneficial to replace the entire prop shaft assembly, especially if you have over 100k miles.

I know that the way my luck goes if I would replace just one piece, another would fail a short time later and I would be back under the car pulling the that shaft back out. Once you realize what a PITA it can be to remove and install the shaft you will only want to do it once.

[The_Jerbel]

Agreed, there are just too many parts on that shaft that can wear out. Just get one cheap from raxles.com or something and call it a day.

[quickdub]

Good time to upgrade to a 1pc Carbon Fiber Drive shaft... ;o)

[akielb]

Same here - I think mine might have been a little more extreme. I have a loud clicking sound coming from the center of the car. My mechanic says its the drive shaft CV and is going to replace it next week. I think he said the part would cost $180.

[exorcet]

Same here - I think mine might have been a little more extreme. I have a loud clicking sound coming from the center of the car. My mechanic says its the drive shaft CV and is going to replace it next week. I think he said the part would cost $180.

for $180 it's probably the axle CV

[akielb]

Problem was the Drive shaft CV - cost was $160 for parts $160 for labor

[obijohn22]

shokan.com


under $400 with 6 month warranty. I have bought many parts form them and they a first rate parts. they look new and are less than the reman. with a 6 month warranty.

I went with the new bearing at first and the vibration was better but not gone. before you go buying parts check the alignment of the shaft and also check your tranny/engine mounts. My whole problem started because one of my tranny mounts went bad and it scewed the engine-tranny and threw out the alignment. which in turn took out my center bearing and front CV. I reccomend checking your mounts and alignment and replacing the entire shaft assembly.

[rms-s4]

takes 10 minutes to pull a drive shaft out. if you have it out, replace everything on it. why pull it out two or three times whe n you can do it once and not have to worry about it. also replace the output shaft seal while you are in there

[Bendy]

I wanted to say that it ended up being the CV joints on either end of the driveshaft that had play in them. My U-joint was fine. I had slightly mis-diagnosed my problem, but it was still the driveshaft. After I put the new one in, the car was much improved.

[okkim]

After a clutch and lightweight flywheel install, I have some really bad noise and vibration at low RPM while accelerating that goes away once I cross ~2000RPM or let off the gas.

That is most definitely flywheel chatter.

[Bendy]

I will agree here. My 15lb Fidanza makes a horrible noise below 2000rpm that goes away above that. I've had to learn to live with it since I bought the Fidanza as a cheaper alternative to a new OEM one.

[jakecro]

I wanted to say that it ended up being the CV joints on either end of the driveshaft that had play in them. My U-joint was fine. I had slightly mis-diagnosed my problem, but it was still the driveshaft. After I put the new one in, the car was much improved.

Good to hear that you solved your problem. My U-joint stiffness was different from the usual failing CV joint you experienced. Smart move replacing the entire unit rather that just the CV joints themselves considering the price is about the same but the install is much easier!

Did you have any problems aligning the new unit on install? I get a slight vibration @ ~40-45mph that cannot seem to get rid of. Readjusted the shaft a few times to no avail. Just curious.

[Bendy]

I have a vibration at 70-75mph since the install. I don't really know what I can do to fix it. I don't do a lot of highway driving with the car, so I don't worry about it too much.

[jakecro]

I have a vibration at 70-75mph since the install. I don't really know what I can do to fix it. I don't do a lot of highway driving with the car, so I don't worry about it too much.

Strange, that is where my vibration was before I replaced the drive shaft.

There is a tiny bit of adjustment that can be made at the carrier bearing support. The mounting holes in the support bracket are slightly larger than the mounting bolts allowing for some side to side adjustment. That is where you can fix your issue. Only problem is it is a trial and error type of situation.

[Bendy]

Thanks for that info. If I ever get some free time with this car that I'm not fixing something else on it, I may play with it. :)

[jms-4]

Driveshaft center support write up:

http://www.audizine.com/forum/showth...upport+bearing

[jms-4]

Some notes about what a few of you are experiencing:

The driveshaft support bearing isn't necessarily the problem, it's the rubber grommet that surrounds it. When I did mine, it looked perfectly OK, but the rubber seemed softer than the one I replaced it with.

Regarding lining up the bearing, I just popped mine on then ran the car in gear on jacks through 3rd gear, then I tightened it completely. I also did my snub mount, so this helped to seat that, too.

I fail to see how the driveshaft U joint can fail under normal driving conditions. The thing is completely sealed and pressed in, and it's also protected by a heat shield. Unless the thing was manufactured incorrectly, I don't see how contaminants can get in there. Also, the grease should not dry out, either. Maybe under the most extreme conditions (tracking the car in hot weather constantly), but that's it.

[jms-4]

takes 10 minutes to pull a drive shaft out. if you have it out, replace everything on it. why pull it out two or three times whe n you can do it once and not have to worry about it. also replace the output shaft seal while you are in there

Yeah. 10 minutes after you get all 4 corners of the car off the ground, after you remove the exhaust, after you remove the heat shield.

[jms-4]

I finally got under there to inspect things and I found that the u-joint has some play in it. I believe this is the cause of my clunk. Now Blauparts sells the rebuild kit, but I can't see to source just the u-joint and whatever associated hardware goes with it by itself. I plan on calling them to see if they will just sell me that part. Just curious if anyone has found a source for just the u-joint?

The ujoint needs to be rebuilt by a shop that has the ability to press it apart and then back together.

U joints are seldom the cause of a clunk. Clunk is usually rear diff mount.

Bad Ujoints squeak.

[giancu]

So I just replaced my center support bearing along with a driveshaft and rear differential from a low mileage car as I was having a bunch of the symptoms that were listed here (vibrations at around the 2k rpm range and I was experiencing a bad clunk as well). Upon removing the old driveshaft it was clear that my vibrations were coming from the worn out rubber in the bearing and found the clunk to be from the u joint rather then the cv joints which surprised me, it was the reason of buying a whole different unit so I wouldn't be replacing everything piece by piece. Anyway I put it all back together and the clunk is definitely eliminated, as for the vibrations I still feel some but I feel like it's from not having my exhaust up at all and running just from the dp's because when I am coasting at 50+ and push the clutch in there is absolutely nothing and when I rev it I feel the same vibrations so I think it's fine now. Drove the car for a day and am now experiencing what sounds like the clutch pressure plate making friction with the clutch on deceleration only (like downshift to 3rd and let it rev down that's is when I hear the noise, it's pretty loud. Anyone have any experiences with this? I haven't had a chance to look underneath again due to work and it is my plan for tomorrow get get under there. Was reading some online and read somewhere that if the driveshaft isn't aligned properly it can cause the input shaft bearing to go bad. Any help would be greatly appreciated!

Chris

[blmlozz]

[haven't had a chance to look underneath again due to work and it is my plan for tomorrow get get under there. Was reading some online and read somewhere that if the driveshaft isn't aligned properly it can cause the input shaft bearing to go bad. Any help would be greatly appreciated

alignment is critical to life and NVH elimination. This is a 2 piece driveshaft, if it's off by even a little it's going to wobble. There's actually a special service tool to do this.

[giancu]

alignment is critical to life and NVH elimination. This is a 2 piece driveshaft, if it's off by even a little it's going to wobble. There's actually a special service tool to do this.

Ugh, so you think I already messed something up internally? Yea I'm aware Audi used a tool to align it but it's hard to get, I've seen a lot of people just make their own tool to install in straight, others even used a laser to get it as close on as they could. When I installed it I eyeballed and while I had the car up on stands I even when through 2nd and watched it rotate to see if I could see it moving in any direction and didn't.


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[giancu]

Contacted Audi stealership and they said $120 for alignment


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[blmlozz]

Ugh, so you think I already messed something up internally? Yea I'm aware Audi used a tool to align it but it's hard to get, I've seen a lot of people just make their own tool to install in straight, others even used a laser to get it as close on as they could. When I installed it I eyeballed and while I had the car up on stands I even when through 2nd and watched it rotate to see if I could see it moving in any direction and didn't.


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How long did you drive it? It would have to be significantly off for a long period of time to cause transmission damage. I do think that minor balance problems could cause a variety of issues.

Contacted Audi stealership and they said $120 for alignment

that's not really that bad. The tool itself isn't that complicated, it's basically a steel rod that ensures the two ends are straight. The hassel and then the DIY aspect to me might be worth just paying them to do it.

[giancu]

How long did you drive it? It would have to be significantly off for a long period of time to cause transmission damage. I do think that minor balance problems could cause a variety of issues.


that's not really that bad. The tool itself isn't that complicated, it's basicly a steel rod that ensures the two ends are straight. What it won't do though is vertical adjustments.

I only drove it to work and back which is a total of 50 miles. It couldn't have been significantly off because I wasn't getting any heavy vibrations and I even took it up to 75 mph. What do you think it could cause? I had my gf put her head down to the floor board next to my shifter and she said she could definitely hear something from just under..



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[giancu]

I will take a video tonight when I get home of the noise I'm getting and post it. Thanks for your help so far man I do appreciate it.


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[Delmed83]

Well this will make you feel better..........I just went through the whole prop shaft replacement fiasco. I first bought a "NEW" shaft from wholesaleimportparts.com. I did the r&r by the book and aligned it with a replica tool that I made at home. Above 60mph, I got HORRIBLE vibrations. It seriously felt like I was constantly driving on those grooves they put on the side of the highway in case you fall asleep. I drove 40 miles to work and 40 miles back home with it like this. I immediately called WIP because something was obviously wrong. The customer service guy had me re-align the drive shaft a certain way. Well, it made it even worse. I drove another 40 miles to work and another 40 miles home (the S4 was my only car at the time and by the time I had re-aligned the prop shaft after work, I went to sleep after; no time for test drive as I was dead tired). I called them again and this time they overnighted me another "NEW" shaft. I did the r&r again and guess what.....same problem, same vibrations. I had no choice but to drive to work yet again (another 80 miles). Finally they agreed something was wrong with the manufacturing of their "NEW" shafts and had me return both of them.

Right now I have a brand new genuine audi prop shaft which i aligned with my homemade tool. The tool is extremely easy to make....do not bother paying audi $120 when you can make a tool with a scrap wood 2x2.

The moral of the story here though is that in that 240 miles of driving with HORRIBLE vibrations, my transmission is fine. The vibrations I had were so bad that I DID think it was going to damage the tranny. After finally getting the prop shaft resolved, I paid a lot of attention in the future days and listened for odd noises from the tranny; I got nothing. Everything seems to be as it was.

[giancu]

You're right, that did make me feel a ton better. I'm over here stressing I just ruined my tranny/who knows what and have to throw more money at it. Were you able to get it aligned and sorted out with the tool you made? Yeah I think that's what i'll end up doing tomorrow with my day off. Do you have a picture you could send me of the tool you made just so I can get an idea of what I need to do? I just don't know what the friction sound is and why but I guess i'll find out tomorrow. Thanks Delmed and blmlozz for you guy's input and help.

[Delmed83]

You're right, that did make me feel a ton better. I'm over here stressing I just ruined my tranny/who knows what and have to throw more money at it. Were you able to get it aligned and sorted out with the tool you made? Yeah I think that's what i'll end up doing tomorrow with my day off. Do you have a picture you could send me of the tool you made just so I can get an idea of what I need to do? I just don't know what the friction sound is and why but I guess i'll find out tomorrow. Thanks Delmed and blmlozz for you guy's input and help.

Here's my old thread:

http://www.audizine.com/forum/showth...s-Change/page2

Refer to post #57 for pics of homemade tool. After I bought the new genuine audi shaft, I remade the tool out of a piece of square hollow metal (i think steel) from home depot....just to be damn sure it would be aligned correctly. Looking back, the wood tool worked fine and would have worked fine again for my final install of the audi shaft. I was just being paranoid.

If you want to get it PERFECTLY straight, be sure to refer to the Bentley manual and follow it exactly. Pay close attention to the table that shows the space thickness vs corresponding shim size. If you have each cv joint attached and you have your alignment tool secured, you will see that there is space between the center support bracket and the body of the car (most likely). So when i was installing mine, I had 10mm of space on either side. Then, I referred to the table.....for a 10mm space, the correct shim size is around 8mm, not 10mm!!! You wanna know why? Because after you fasten the center support bracket and remove your alignment tool, the middle of the prop shaft (right at the center support bushing) is going to drop a little bit from its own weight. By using the slightly smaller shims, you account for this drop. Finally, when you remove your tool, you will see the shaft is now perfectly straight after it has lowered a little from its own weight.

I hope you understood all this. If not, you will when you do it.

So now people can get into the argument that when the shaft is spinning up to speed, it may raise a little on its own and "float" while you're driving.......so then you don't actually need to account for the drop......LOL. Who knows....all I know is I followed the manual precisely and it worked out.

[giancu]

Here's my old thread:

http://www.audizine.com/forum/showth...s-Change/page2

Refer to post #57 for pics of homemade tool. After I bought the new genuine audi shaft, I remade the tool out of a piece of square hollow metal (i think steel) from home depot....just to be damn sure it would be aligned correctly. Looking back, the wood tool worked fine and would have worked fine again for my final install of the audi shaft. I was just being paranoid.

If you want to get it PERFECTLY straight, be sure to refer to the Bentley manual and follow it exactly. Pay close attention to the table that shows the space thickness vs corresponding shim size. If you have each cv joint attached and you have your alignment tool secured, you will see that there is space between the center support bracket and the body of the car (most likely). So when i was installing mine, I had 10mm of space on either side. Then, I referred to the table.....for a 10mm space, the correct shim size is around 8mm, not 10mm!!! You wanna know why? Because after you fasten the center support bracket and remove your alignment tool, the middle of the prop shaft (right at the center support bushing) is going to drop a little bit from its own weight. By using the slightly smaller shims, you account for this drop. Finally, when you remove your tool, you will see the shaft is now perfectly straight after it has lowered a little from its own weight.

I hope you understood all this. If not, you will when you do it.

So now people can get into the argument that when the shaft is spinning up to speed, it may raise a little on its own and "float" while you're driving.......so then you don't actually need to account for the drop......LOL. Who knows....all I know is I followed the manual precisely and it worked out.

It really does all make sense from all the reading i've done online about it. The shim part is what I wasn't getting but it all makes sense now, the way I installed it was just with the 10mm spacers that were already there from the original one. I know this is a sad thing to say but I still don't have a Bentley manual nor a vagcom however i'm sure i'll be able to find something online. Alright looks like this is what i'll be doing all day tomorrow and btw that wooden tool you made looks great for how simple of a design it is, gets the job done and i'll have one made up tomorrow. Thanks again for all your help so far, love audizine for this reason, everyone's so willing to help and actually help with care. Good stuff i'll have an update tomorrow.

[f4m0u5]

Then, I referred to the table.....for a 10mm space, the correct shim size is around 8mm, not 10mm!!! You wanna know why? Because after you fasten the center support bracket and remove your alignment tool, the middle of the prop shaft (right at the center support bushing) is going to drop a little bit from its own weight. By using the slightly smaller shims, you account for this drop. Finally, when you remove your tool, you will see the shaft is now perfectly straight after it has lowered a little from its own weight.

Sorry to bump this way later. But that makes no sence with thwe shims. When you insert a smaller shim (10mm space witha. 8mm shim) that will raise the center of the bushing housing and move he bearing closer to the bottem of the bushing housing. then removing the tool would drop the bearing even more the wrong way wouldnt it?

I feel it should be the oppsite. With a 10mm space use a 12mm bushing to push housing lower so when you remove tool it will center back out with gravity....


Any one have the table and actualy procedure from bently?

[vavJETTAw36]

Sorry to bump this way later. But that makes no sence with thwe shims. When you insert a smaller shim (10mm space witha. 8mm shim) that will raise the center of the bushing housing and move he bearing closer to the bottem of the bushing housing. then removing the tool would drop the bearing even more the wrong way wouldnt it?

I feel it should be the oppsite. With a 10mm space use a 12mm bushing to push housing lower so when you remove tool it will center back out with gravity....


Any one have the table and actualy procedure from bently?

There is no procedure as this is an "unserviceable " item

[f4m0u5]

There is no procedure as this is an "unserviceable " item

There is a procedure to allignt the driveshaft when it is replaced. I found the table. He was right on the numbers ( a 10 mm space takes 8mm shim) but it was not for the reasoning he said. Its because of when there is load put on the driveshaft it pushes the bearing to right location

[SlowestB7ever]

Hey hey hey sorry to bring this post back from the dead, but I just bought a stage 3 s4, with a bad carrier bearing which I replaced, and little there after the bearing went again. The actual bearing is fine, but the bracket became warped and snapped on one side.
Is something misaligned?
Or is the hp/tq to much for the bearing?


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