So... how did the B7 RS4 end up weighing more than the B7 S4 (U.S. spec cars)?

[astris]

This has been known for a while, but while browsing the Audiusa website the other day I noticed they finally posted the info publically. For the longest time Audi didn't provide any official weight stats on the RS4 and I can see why. It would probably put some hurt on their sales stateside.

U.S. spec weights are unladen. Not positive on the euro spec.

RS4 = 3957lbs
S4 (sedan) = 3869lbs
RS4 (euro) = ~ 3600lbs (I've seen from 1620-1650kg)

So, how does the U.S. RS4 end up weighing MORE than it's S4 counterpart? Where do the weight savings come from in the euro version? Different seats and steering wheel won't drop 300lbs.

It's even more perplexing to me since the U.S. spec S4 and RS4 pretty much share the same interior. Did Audi not see this coming for the U.S. spec cars? You think they would have done what they could to atleast keep the car under the weight of the S4. Seems almost like the U.S. RS4 was an afterthought. BTW, I still like and appreciate the RS4.

Your thoughts?

[sykotoyRS4]

well side airbags for a start, electric motors in seats, perhaps USA collision side bar ......hmmmm not sure what else...oh the v8 badge..hehe we dont get that either

[OneFastBMW]

the Euro RS4 also does not have power rear windows as well as some of the bumper reiforcements.

[astris]

All valid points, BUT the S4 also has all of those things mentioned as well. I still don't see how removing that equiptment = weight loss over the S4 in europe and just retaining the equiptment (that is also standard on the S4) = increase over the S4 the U.S.???

My real question is...How is the RS4 heavier than the S4?

If the RS4 is lighter than the S4 in europe, why is the S4 lighter than the RS4 in the states? What RS4 components actually add weight to the S4?

[sams4]

it's the fat wallet the RS4 owners have that adds all the weight

[cesc]

I don't see how a car like the RS4 doesn't have power rear windows, I've seen a few with the manual winders in the back. It's crazy I tell ya!

[heliskyr]

That's an interesting question, because I can think of more parts that should make the RS4 lighter (aluminum hood, lw battery, & no spare) than parts that could make it heavier (19" vs. 18 " wheels, larger brakes, beefier sway bars). So I guess I'm not of any help with this question, but would be interested in the answer too!

Maybe someone could comment on the weight difference b/t the S4 V8 and the FSI V8.

[V-8]

The US-spec RS4 comes with a sunroof as standard equipment whereas the S4 weight probably doesn't include it. Also, the first batch of cars sent to the US all had the non-optional premium package so maybe the RS4 weight is based on a fully loaded car whereas the S4 weight is for the stripped down base model?

[crafty]

I think each HP = 10lb...

Really have no idea... but the theory that the better suspension components, reinforced whatchamacallits everywhere, etc. are probably enough. Perhaps that is why they stayed with the alum hood, etc. to couteract those weight gains. Vettes are fiberglass for the same reason I think...

[astris]

it's the fat wallet the RS4 owners have that adds all the weight

lol, not a bad theory.

That's an interesting question, because I can think of more parts that should make the RS4 lighter (aluminum hood, lw battery, & no spare) than parts that could make it heavier (19" vs. 18 " wheels, larger brakes, beefier sway bars). So I guess I'm not of any help with this question, but would be interested in the answer too!

Maybe someone could comment on the weight difference b/t the S4 V8 and the FSI V8.

My thoughts exactly. The trunk and hood are aluminum. I do know the brakes are heavier than what comes on the S4 and I believe the suspension is as well. Not sure about the wheels.

I don't have any numbers on the engine weights, so I'm not much help there either.

The US-spec RS4 comes with a sunroof as standard equipment whereas the S4 weight probably doesn't include it. Also, the first batch of cars sent to the US all had the non-optional premium package so maybe the RS4 weight is based on a fully loaded car whereas the S4 weight is for the stripped down base model?

Actually both the U.S. spec S4 and RS4 come standard with a sunroof. So, I'm assuming they were included in the unladen weight.

Interesting theory, but I doubt Audi would give the weight of a stripper S4 and a loaded RS4. Seems detrimental to their campaign especially with all the initial focus on the RS4's weight reduction.

I think each HP = 10lb...

Really have no idea... but the theory that the better suspension components, reinforced whatchamacallits everywhere, etc. are probably enough. Perhaps that is why they stayed with the alum hood, etc. to couteract those weight gains. Vettes are fiberglass for the same reason I think...

Well, the math nearly adds up.

[ieatfishburitos]

I'm gonna guess that it has something to do with the engine differences? FSI is heavy...

[V-8]

Actually both the U.S. spec S4 and RS4 come standard with a sunroof. So, I'm assuming they were included in the unladen weight.

Interesting theory, but I doubt Audi would give the weight of a loaded S4 and a stripper RS4. Seems detrimental to their campaign especially with all the initial focus on the RS4's weight reduction.

Yeah, I don't know. It appears that the published Euro-spec weight of the 6-speed S4 is 1660kg which is 3661 pounds, or only 10kg (22 lbs) heavier than the Euro-spec RS4. Based on that I would expect a Euro-spec RS4 to weigh much closer to a Euro-spec S4 than Audi would have you believe. I also know that every time a magazine or independent tester has weighed a Euro-spec RS4 it's much heavier than 1650kg.

So if the difference between a Euro-spec S4 and RS4 is only 22 lbs, even with the lighter seats, aluminum, no-spare, etc. etc., then maybe the additional weight of the US-spec seats and other "standard" items are what makes the US-spec RS4 heavier than the S4? Also, contrary to the Euro tests, the US magazines/testers have found their fully loaded US-spec test cars to weigh close to, if not less than the listed weight of 3957 lbs. This is what makes me think AoA's published RS4 weight is for a fully loaded car.

[astris]

Yeah, I don't know. It appears that the published Euro-spec weight of the 6-speed S4 is 1660kg which is 3661 pounds, or only 10kg (22 lbs) heavier than the Euro-spec RS4. Based on that I would expect a Euro-spec RS4 to weigh much closer to a Euro-spec S4 than Audi would have you believe. I also know that every time a magazine or independent tester has weighed a Euro-spec RS4 it's much heavier than 1650kg.

So if the difference between a Euro-spec S4 and RS4 is only 22 lbs, even with the lighter seats, aluminum, no-spare, etc. etc., then maybe the additional weight of the US-spec seats and other "standard" items are what makes the US-spec RS4 heavier than the S4? Also, contrary to the Euro tests, the US magazines/testers have found their fully loaded US-spec test cars to weigh close to, if not less than the listed weight of 3957 lbs. This is what makes me think AoA's published RS4 weight is for a fully loaded car.

Interesting how close the euro spec cars are. Closer than I thought too, but the RS4 is lighter across the pond.

It's a good theory, just don't know why Audi would do that. It's not to their benefit and they should certainly know that.

[wkornfeld]

Let's not forget that the car is just plain bigger....!?

[bhvrdr]

All valid points, BUT the S4 also has all of those things mentioned as well. I still don't see how removing that equiptment = weight loss over the S4 in europe and just retaining the equiptment (that is also standard on the S4) = increase over the S4 the U.S.???

My real question is...How is the RS4 heavier than the S4?

If the RS4 is lighter than the S4 in europe, why is the S4 lighter than the RS4 in the states? What RS4 components actually add weight to the S4?

It's not that much heavier than the S4, but how about the heavy ass brakes they put on the RS4 along with the heavy ass 19" wheels as well as whatever it took to widen the stance? Just guessing here.

cheers! Mike

[OneFastBMW]

I find it odd that no one has even metioned DRC yet, all of that has to be heavy as hell.

[GQ//S4]

I think each HP = 10lb...

Really have no idea... but the theory that the better suspension components, reinforced whatchamacallits everywhere, etc. are probably enough. Perhaps that is why they stayed with the alum hood, etc. to couteract those weight gains. Vettes are fiberglass for the same reason I think...

Well since the Rs4 has always been Audi's "Racing" version, it should be assumed that when upgrading the brakes and suspension they would source a lighter and more expensive material to reduce unsprung weight. Typically upgraded brakes tend to shed pounds rather than add because performance is taken into account when in development, and they use different materials than the typical iron or what have you brake calipers.

Personally, if I were to switch and buy an Rs4, I would expect to make some "luxery" sacrifices for the extra sportiness in the package. I would WANT an aluminum hood, roof, and trunk lid, along with less sound deadening, a lighter exhaust, battery, no spare, and lighter wheels and brakes. To top it off, I would expect my performance Recaro seats to be made like the Audi R8's, with a CF backing to reduce the weight. These are all typical reductions that are usually made when creating a peformance street car, and that is exactly what I would expect Audi to do.

Just a hypothetical, but perhaps some of the weight is increased by dry vs wet weight at weigh in. Just a theory, but it may account for some of the extra mass.

[bhvrdr]

Well since the Rs4 has always been Audi's "Racing" version, it should be assumed that when upgrading the brakes and suspension they would source a lighter and more expensive material to reduce unsprung weight. Typically upgraded brakes tend to shed pounds rather than add because performance is taken into account when in development, and they use different materials than the typical iron or what have you brake calipers.

Personally, if I were to switch and buy an Rs4, I would expect to make some "luxery" sacrifices for the extra sportiness in the package. I would WANT an aluminum hood, roof, and trunk lid, along with less sound deadening, a lighter exhaust, battery, no spare, and lighter wheels and brakes. To top it off, I would expect my performance Recaro seats to be made like the Audi R8's, with a CF backing to reduce the weight. These are all typical reductions that are usually made when creating a peformance street car, and that is exactly what I would expect Audi to do.

Just a hypothetical, but perhaps some of the weight is increased by dry vs wet weight at weigh in. Just a theory, but it may account for some of the extra mass.

This is not the case. Audi cut corners. The brakes on the RS4 are larger and are not utilizing proper LW rotors and the calipers are gigantic units (i'm uncertain of their exact weight but they are heavy). The wheels are also not super LW forged wheels like should have been used. And, yeah, the suspension is even heavier as OneFastBMW pointed out. A true coilover setup would be much lighter. I can see all that easily adding up to the ~100lb difference.

cheers! mike

[GQ//S4]

This is not the case. Audi cut corners. The brakes on the RS4 are larger and are not utilizing proper LW rotors and the calipers are gigantic units (i'm uncertain of their exact weight but they are heavy). The wheels are also not super LW forged wheels like should have been used. And, yeah, the suspension is even heavier as OneFastBMW pointed out. A true coilover setup would be much lighter. I can see all that easily adding up to the ~100lb difference.

cheers! mike

Yeah, like I said, if I had it my way lol! Sad that Audi didn't do that.

[bhvrdr]

I agree with you. I'm going to wait to see what the B8 has to offer but likely i'm going to go back and buy a lighter B6 A4 and just put a big turbo on it and have a blast while getting 25mpg :)

cheers! Mike

[belinko]

I agree with you. I'm going to wait to see what the B8 has to offer but likely i'm going to go back and buy a lighter B6 A4 and just put a big turbo on it and have a blast while getting 25mpg :)

cheers! Mike

X2 ^^^^ Mike

The 1.8T is such a bullet proof powerplant. The B5 & B6 chasis are a great platform to work with.

Just think about what Donkervoort is doing with 1.8T and also don't forget the record breaking MTM TT, with two 1.8T mounted in the rear.

[astris]

It's not that much heavier than the S4, but how about the heavy ass brakes they put on the RS4 along with the heavy ass 19" wheels as well as whatever it took to widen the stance? Just guessing here.

cheers! Mike

I was wondering when you would chime in.

Yeah, I mentioned the brakes, wheels, and suspension. on the car would counteract some of this.

If you figure around 100lbs for the wheels, suspension, and brakes then minus a few for the hood, boot, etc. you would end up at around 90lb difference... which Audi's official weights show.

Like you were saying, cutting corners.

[Kem]

I would never want a big turbo 1.8T, wayyy too much lag.

[bhvrdr]

I would never want a big turbo 1.8T, wayyy too much lag.

Not to get too far off topic but sure many of them are laggy but if you get a top notch kit that comes with a great tune and great manifold they are not as peaky as I would have expected.