B6 1.8t spark plug gap?

[deltaforcehall]

yea i browsed through the mod sticky and performance section.. i couldnt find the gap spec for our oem plugs... my buddy says they are pre-gapped... but i dont play that shhhhhht.

anyone know the spec? i have the oem platinum ngk laser cuts.

thanks

i found this much on ngk's site... but is this what people are running in their oem setup

http://ngk.com/results_app.asp?AAIA=1411276

[SeKKeY]

guessing youre not modded? if you run platniums i think you run them as is. for copper gap is .032 stock, .028 for when you have chip etc

[deltaforcehall]

i gapped them at .032 .031.. in that area... oem plugs. platinum

[A4TL]

the true oem plugs are side fire non-gappable solid platinum designed for 50-60K of use. no need to gap them, once they are worn replace them.

for everyone else .30 is good because the copper plugs wear down to about .032 by 5-6K when you should change them (and your oil).

to much gap you'll get a misfire at peak torque too little gap you'll get crappier mileage and rougher idle.

[topcat]

I run the platinum OEM right out of the box with apr 1 programming with no problem. Or at least I don't sense any problems. Should get it logged sometime to see how optimum I am. Everything feels fine though.

[sfwjesse]

So this explains why i was getting 32 mpg (chipped), but horrible 1/4 mile times, changed my wicked eroded plugs with personally gapped .32 bosh platinums and now i only get 27-29 mpg tops but better power?

[FrenchFrye]

gaped some AC Delco ( they get a lot of hate) double platinum tipped copper core spark plugs at .030 because that's what was on the OEM never before replaced plugs at 109k miles. i am noticing a rougher idle slightly lowered mpg's ( i might just be flooring it a bit more then normal). and it seems to be taking a bit longer to turn the car on. the plugs were pre-gapped at .047 and i see mentioning to gap them at .030 above, should i change the gap to one of those?

[CyberPMG]

The range of .032" - .028" is the normal gap for plugs assuming using the standard ignition coils. If you upgrade to the TFSI ignition coils found in the 2.0T engine, then the gap on the plugs will increase (and use a different plug that comes with a larger gap - like the NGK BKR7E-11 instead of the NGK BKR7E).

[Gberg888]

.028 for BKR7E by NGK

[diagnosticator]

Running NGK copper tipped plugs is misguided. There is no advantage to running copper tipped plugs and several disadvantages except cost. Use Platinum/Iridium plugs.

[Charles.waite]

The range of .032" - .028" is the normal gap for plugs assuming using the standard ignition coils. If you upgrade to the TFSI ignition coils found in the 2.0T engine, then the gap on the plugs will increase (and use a different plug that comes with a larger gap - like the NGK BKR7E-11 instead of the NGK BKR7E).

This. I ran BKR7EIX-11 plugs on my stage1+ 1.8t with 07K TFSI coils without a single issue for 3+ years. the "-11" designates the 1.1mm (.044") pre-gap vs the standard .8mm (.032") pre-gap. The TFSI coils can more than handle that larger gap.

And I wouldn't fux with coppers. Platinum/Iridiums work exactly the same and you only have to change them every 40k. Not only do you end up saving money on them over the long haul, but you have much less wear and tear on your head removing and installing spark plugs all the time.

[PreciseD]

BAT guys will run colder plugs with a much smaller gap. My tuner recommended 2 colder plugs with a gap at .23

[amgraham]

Running NGK copper tipped plugs is misguided. There is no advantage to running copper tipped plugs and several disadvantages except cost. Use Platinum/Iridium plugs.

Agreed. I'm running a 1+ Motoza tune and ordered whatever NGK Iridiums that it called for and slammed them in. Has run great for 5K+ miles now. DON'T TRY TO GAP IRIDIUMS!!!

[MacFady]

If you aren't setting the gap yourself, can I just recommend at the very least double checking that the gap out of the box is actually what it says it is supposed to be.

[Charles.waite]

You can gap iridiums, you just have to do it differently that coppers. You can't lever the ground strap off the electrode like with coppers because you'll damage it.

[CyberPMG]

I've been very happy with the Iridiums. I use the NGK BKR7eIX-11 plugs with my TFSI coils. Great combo!

[amgraham]

The chances of the average joe doing that without damaging the electrode is remote. I've never had a misgapped NGK out the box (professional mechanic).

[Charles.waite]

It's easy if you have the right gapping tool:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=XFehqlFsUQA

[Human Garbage]

Running NGK copper tipped plugs is misguided. There is no advantage to running copper tipped plugs and several disadvantages except cost. Use Platinum/Iridium plugs.

So cost isn't an advantage. I understand... I think.

I run copper core plugs. They are cheap enough I buy bulk and throw a new set in every oil change. Surely even iridiums/platinums wear during the long service interval and aren't as good over time as new set after new set of coppers in terms of performance. While I respect your opinion, I'll pass on that advice thanks.

[diagnosticator]

So cost isn't an advantage. I understand... I think.

I run copper core plugs. They are cheap enough I buy bulk and throw a new set in every oil change. Surely even iridiums/platinums wear during the long service interval and aren't as good over time as new set after new set of coppers in terms of performance. While I respect your opinion, I'll pass on that advice thanks.

As long as you are fully aware of the situation, using copper electrode plugs as you prefer is your choice.

Besides being very hard and resistant to erosion and gap width increase from the spark, the platinum and iridium precious metals used on more expensive spark plugs resist rounding of the electrode edges and corners for a very long time in use. When the sharp when new copper/steel electrode edges wear off and get rounded, the required secondary coil output voltage necessary for a spark to jump the plug gap increases a lot, and is much higher than the fine wire point platinum or iridium electrode plugs.

Platinum or iridium electrode plugs will maintain a stable plug gap width for many tens of thousands of miles, at least 30K miles and often a lot more, and provide superior ignition spark consistency over that operation interval compared to copper electrode plugs that begin to suffer deterioration of he spark within a few thousand miles from new.

Frequent plug changes often cause problems with the aluminum spark plug hole threads after a few years as well. After some number of plug changes at OCI frequency, striped plug hole threads are more likely to occur.

[Corrado_Guy]

As long as you are fully aware of the situation, using copper electrode plugs as you prefer is your choice.

Besides being very hard and resistant to erosion and gap width increase from the spark, the platinum and iridium precious metals used on more expensive spark plugs resist rounding of the electrode edges and corners for a very long time in use. When the sharp when new copper/steel electrode edges wear off and get rounded, the required secondary coil output voltage necessary for a spark to jump the plug gap increases a lot, and is much higher than the fine wire point platinum or iridium electrode plugs.

Platinum or iridium electrode plugs will maintain a stable plug gap width for many tens of thousands of miles, at least 30K miles and often a lot more, and provide superior ignition spark consistency over that operation interval compared to copper electrode plugs that begin to suffer deterioration of he spark within a few thousand miles from new.

Frequent plug changes often cause problems with the aluminum spark plug hole threads after a few years as well. After some number of plug changes at OCI frequency, striped plug hole threads are more likely to occur.

In some ways that make sense but it depends what the main goal is. If you want a good spark plug that will give you good performance and a long life then expensive Platinum/Iridium plugs but not the cheap ones is the way to go. The cheap Platinum/Iridium plugs have a very thin core and do not have good performance and can cause issues under boost. So yes the Platinum/Iridium plugs are a good plug but under high boost and load they are not the best choice. I like to compare them to all-season tires, they are designed for all seasons but they are not designed for all conditions. The problem with the Platinum/Iridium plugs is they are not as good under high load and can over heat and and can cause mis-fires and late fires. These plugs do not perform as well as they are hot and they do not dissipate heat as well and the ground electrodes will open a little like flower and increase the gap as they heat. Driving normally they work well enough but when you are pulling fast revs they do not work as well when firing really quickly. These are not bad things by any means because these plugs are more in line with economy and long life. There are a lot of dyno tests out there with tuners comparing plugs so these are solid observations backed by some data.

The copper core plugs conduct electricity much faster and the copper can dissipate heat much faster. The down side to these plugs is they have very a poor service life at the expense of performance. Copper core plugs will erode and they harder you drive the car the shorter life span they will have. That is simply how it goes so if you are running NGK BKR copper core plugs you will need to change them more often but they are better under high load conditions. I change the oil and plugs around every 5,000 kms or so and I find my plugs go from 0.028" to 0.031 or so in that time period. I drive my car hard and I also read the plugs to see how well they are working and how hot they are running. I found my last set was burning a bit closer to threads so I dropped it to BKR8E plugs and it is running a little better. I also run R8 FSI coils and find any bigger gap than 0.028" starts to miss and under high load it doesn't work as well.

So I think both plugs work well in the conditions they are designed for so pick your poison and go with it. I beat on my car like it owes me money so I go for a better performance plug but if you think 4,000 - 4,500 RPM is revving pretty high then Platinum/Iridium plugs are probably better suited to your needs. I do disagree with issues relating to changing plugs though. If you use anti-seize on threads and torque the plugs properly then wear will be minimal.

[Charles.waite]

I disagree. I don't think there is any negative tradeoff going to iridium or platinum from coppers. They stay more consistent for a longer time than coppers and the cost per mile is hardly different.

Plus there's just a lot less waste in materials and whatnot which DOES make a difference.

In my mind it's the same as people buying expensive synthetic then changing it at 5000 miles. They're throwing away perfectly good oil for no reason.

I don't think copper plugs are measurably better in any metric.

[diagnosticator]

I disagree. I don't think there is any negative tradeoff going to iridium or platinum from coppers. They stay more consistent for a longer time than coppers and the cost per mile is hardly different.

Plus there's just a lot less waste in materials and whatnot which DOES make a difference.

It's the same as people buying expensive synthetic then changing it at 5000 miles. They're throwing away perfectly good oil for no reason.

I don't think copper plugs are measurably better in any metric.

The justification for changing expensive synthetic oil at 5000 mile OCI, is that the only way to remove sludge forming contamination from the engine is by changing the oil. The best synthetic oils are able to hold a lot of contamination in suspension in the oil to control sludge, while still being able to lubricate the engine really well. Regardless, if an engine like the 1.8T tends to develop excessive sludge deposits, the only way to manage the amount of contamination of the oil is by changing it well before it is otherwise necessary,

[diagnosticator]

In some ways that make sense but it depends what the main goal is. If you want a good spark plug that will give you good performance and a long life then expensive Platinum/Iridium plugs but not the cheap ones is the way to go. The cheap Platinum/Iridium plugs have a very thin core and do not have good performance and can cause issues under boost. So yes the Platinum/Iridium plugs are a good plug but under high boost and load they are not the best choice. I like to compare them to all-season tires, they are designed for all seasons but they are not designed for all conditions. The problem with the Platinum/Iridium plugs is they are not as good under high load and can over heat and and can cause mis-fires and late fires. These plugs do not perform as well as they are hot and they do not dissipate heat as well and the ground electrodes will open a little like flower and increase the gap as they heat. Driving normally they work well enough but when you are pulling fast revs they do not work as well when firing really quickly. These are not bad things by any means because these plugs are more in line with economy and long life. There are a lot of dyno tests out there with tuners comparing plugs so these are solid observations backed by some data.

The copper core plugs conduct electricity much faster and the copper can dissipate heat much faster. The down side to these plugs is they have very a poor service life at the expense of performance. Copper core plugs will erode and they harder you drive the car the shorter life span they will have. That is simply how it goes so if you are running NGK BKR copper core plugs you will need to change them more often but they are better under high load conditions. I change the oil and plugs around every 5,000 kms or so and I find my plugs go from 0.028" to 0.031 or so in that time period. I drive my car hard and I also read the plugs to see how well they are working and how hot they are running. I found my last set was burning a bit closer to threads so I dropped it to BKR8E plugs and it is running a little better. I also run R8 FSI coils and find any bigger gap than 0.028" starts to miss and under high load it doesn't work as well.

So I think both plugs work well in the conditions they are designed for so pick your poison and go with it. I beat on my car like it owes me money so I go for a better performance plug but if you think 4,000 - 4,500 RPM is revving pretty high then Platinum/Iridium plugs are probably better suited to your needs. I do disagree with issues relating to changing plugs though. If you use anti-seize on threads and torque the plugs properly then wear will be minimal.

I believe you are sincere stating the several copper vs platinum electrode plugs perceived differences. However, I have never seen any actual data to support the belief that copper fat electrode plugs work better than platinum/iridium plugs under high boost conditions. That belief is inconsistent with the established facts involved.

[Kevin C]

FYI... Copper plugs have a copper core and typically have a nickel alloy electrode that is fused to the copper core. If you used copper for an electrode it would last about five miles. Also, those fancy small tip expensive plugs typically have a copper core. The real difference it what they use for an electrode.

5.“Copper plugs”

“Copper spark plugs” is a term mistakenly used for a standard material spark plug. A standard material spark plug traditionally uses a nickel-alloy outer material fused to a copper core. Almost all spark plugs use a copper core center to conduct the electricity, jump the gap, and promote heat dissipation. However, as an outer electrode material, copper would not be a good choice, as it is soft and has a low melting point (resulting in a plug that would last minutes, not miles). Nearly all NGK spark plugs, including precious metals iridium and platinum, have a copper core. When one talks in terms of nickel alloys, platinum and iridium, one is referring to its durability, or how long a spark plug will last before it needs to be replaced. However, when one talks about copper, he or she is referring to its ability to conduct electricity that is needed to fire across the gap and ignite the air-fuel mixture.

https://www.ngksparkplugs.com/about-...ut-spark-plugs

[amgraham]

In my mind it's the same as people buying expensive synthetic then changing it at 5000 miles. They're throwing away perfectly good oil for no reason.

The justification for changing expensive synthetic oil at 5000 mile OCI, is that the only way to remove sludge forming contamination from the engine is by changing the oil. The best synthetic oils are able to hold a lot of contamination in suspension in the oil to control sludge, while still being able to lubricate the engine really well. Regardless, if an engine like the 1.8T tends to develop excessive sludge deposits, the only way to manage the amount of contamination of the oil is by changing it well before it is otherwise necessary,

Just changed my Liqui Moly at 5K on the nose and it was funk nasty. The 1.8T is rough on oil. I'll keep on "wasting" expensive synthetic in the Audi. On my other vehicles though (06 4Runner, 04 Denali, 11 F-350 Diesel) I run synthetic 10K and it still looks better coming out than the Audi at 5K. Nowadays you really can't make a blanket statement about all cars oil requirements. Some are super particular (IE my mom's 2016 Outback uses 0W20 synthetic on a very strict interval) where a Toyota you can throw damn near anything in it (within reason).

[Charles.waite]

Just changed my Liqui Moly at 5K on the nose and it was funk nasty. The 1.8T is rough on oil. I'll keep on "wasting" expensive synthetic in the Audi. On my other vehicles though (06 4Runner, 04 Denali, 11 F-350 Diesel) I run synthetic 10K and it still looks better coming out than the Audi at 5K. Nowadays you really can't make a blanket statement about all cars oil requirements. Some are super particular (IE my mom's 2016 Outback uses 0W20 synthetic on a very strict interval) where a Toyota you can throw damn near anything in it (within reason).

Nowadays you can't really make a statement about the lifespan of an oil simply by looking at it when you drain it either.

I submitted an oil sample of Rotella T6 to Blackstone a few years back with 8000 miles of all city driving and they said the oil still had plenty of life left.

Yea it's black and "nasty" looking but oil isn't evaluated simply by its color.

Also a turbocharged engine will see the oil undergo much higher peak temps than a naturally aspirated one, in general. Turbos get really hot sometimes. That's why the color darkens so quickly.

[PreciseD]

I have heard to not use Platinum on turbo cars for the fact that they retain heat and cause premature ignition... Here is a good little bit of info...

"Platinum plugs actually have a piece of platinum in them, hence the name, that heats up very quickly. What this does is help ensure a more complete burn in the combustion chamber, thus reducing wasted gas and in turn, lowering overall emissions. Platinum plugs are great for a stock daily driver, and can last a long time because the platinum gets so hot that it burns up any deposits on the plug; in essence it is self-cleaning. However, on a turbocharged, supercharged or nitrous application, where you are increasing cylinder pressure and thus, heat, the platinum in the plug can become the hottest point in the combustion chamber and can actually ignite the mixture before the plug even fires. This is called pre-ignition, and actually tries to force the piston back down the cylinder while it's on it's upwards travel. This is not good. This breaks rods."

I will stick to the $1.97 NGKs and change them often...

[Charles.waite]

I'm pretty sure Audi might have thought of that when they specced platinum/iridium plugs as OEM for literally every single turbo car they've built for the past 20 years....

Nothing against the V-power "copper" plugs (great link btw, Kevin, I didn't know the cooper plugs electrode was coated like that) they work absolutely fine. But I'm personally going to take the word of an OEM like Audi or a manufacturer like NGK over something a tuner said. I'm assuming that's your source PreciseD, where did you get that statement from? It sounds like conjecture, not really anything based on research. Detonation is caused by too hot a plug for the engine, it has nothing to do with the material of the plug. I'm positive that manufacturers normalize their heat ranges and design them to absorb/disperse heat identically across materials and construction, otherwise a heat range number would be worthless and they wouldn't use them.

Now its possible that Iridium/platinum plugs could have a tighter tolerance for improper heat range and thats a valid concern. But there is no inherent propensity for Iridium/platinum plugs to cause detonation.

Consider this: NGK BKR7EIX-11 plugs cost $8 on Amazon. The copper BKR7E-11's cost ~$3 each on Aamzon. You can obviously find them cheaper, but even at $2/ea you're maaaybe breaking even vs an iridium plug that lasts for 40k or so. And yea its not hard to change them, but its still work and it still takes a bit of time that is unnecessary. I guess I don't see what the point of doing the extra work is when it improves nothing...

[PreciseD]

I'm pretty sure Audi might have thought of that when they specced platinum/iridium plugs as OEM for literally every single turbo car they've built for the past 20 years....

Nothing against the V-power "copper" plugs (great link btw, Kevin, I didn't know the cooper plugs electrode was coated like that) they work absolutely fine. But I'm personally going to take the word of an OEM like Audi or a manufacturer like NGK over something a tuner said. I'm assuming that's your source PreciseD, where did you get that statement from.

A stock low power car, yes.... That is why Audi now uses Iridium and not Platinum on their cars..

[Charles.waite]

A stock low power car, yes.... That is why Audi now uses Iridium and not Platinum on their cars..

Well you said "turbo cars" you didn't specify BT modified cars.

I know JHM reccommends tri-electrode Bosch plugs for various reasons. I believe they're coated copper, but I believe that the reasoning is that the three ground straps let the spark disperse more and ignite the mixture more completely. Assuming the current and voltage flowing to the plug is the same, you'll actually get a WEAKER spark with those, you just get 3 weaker sparks, rather than one stronger spark.

[PreciseD]

Well you said "turbo cars" you didn't specify BT modified cars.

I know JHM reccommends tri-electrode Bosch plugs for various reasons. I believe they're coated copper, but I believe that the reasoning is that the three ground straps let the spark disperse more and ignite the mixture more completely. Assuming the current and voltage flowing to the plug is the same, you'll actually get a WEAKER spark with those, you just get 3 weaker sparks, rather than one stronger spark.

How many of us are actually running a stock file car? Anything over stock and I would ditch those Platinums in a heartbeat.

[Charles.waite]

I ran NHK IX plugs on my stage 1+ car (it was apr, but still...) for years without any issues. As far as I know the current owner is still running them. I actually experimented with coppers and iridiums and heat range 6 and 7. And never really noticed any differences to be honest. The only difference was with the two gap sizes. And even then it was pretty minimal and likely just in my head.

[PreciseD]

I ran NHK IX plugs on my stage 1+ car (it was apr, but still...) for years without any issues. As far as I know the current owner is still running them. I actually experimented with coppers and iridiums and heat range 6 and 7. And never really noticed any differences to be honest. The only difference was with the two gap sizes. And even then it was pretty minimal and likely just in my head.

Aren't IX plugs iridium and not platinum?

[Charles.waite]

Aren't IX plugs iridium and not platinum?

Yea.

[Corrado_Guy]

I believe you are sincere stating the several copper vs platinum electrode plugs perceived differences. However, I have never seen any actual data to support the belief that copper fat electrode plugs work better than platinum/iridium plugs under high boost conditions. That belief is inconsistent with the established facts involved.

Great argument, I thought you were actually knowledgeable in mechanical systems but by this reply I can see it is simply opinion and nothing more. There are a lot of people who have spent a lot of time testing plugs for maximum performance and their findings are much different than your opinion. Maybe if you actually did some research and stopped spouting opinions you may enlighten yourself. I said it before and I will say it now, if you want a general use plug that is good over a long period of time OEM platinum plugs are good but if you are tuned and pushing more power then copper core plugs are the better choice. I can see the difference in the logs from one to the other and there are a lot of people who have forgotten more than most people will know who have taken the time and proved what I wrote. Just because you have not personally seen these results does not make it true or false.

[Charles.waite]

I'm almost loathe to even dive down this rabbit hole.... But where of the studies and data from these people doing this testing. "Common knowledge" in the tuning community doesn't really count. Nor does one guy who pulled logs once.

[PreciseD]

I'm almost loathe to even dive down this rabbit hole.... But where of the studies and data from these people doing this testing. "Common knowledge" in the tuning community doesn't really count. Nor does one guy who pulled logs once.

Actually many tuners, 4 of which I've talked to, do not recommend platinum at all. It is common knowledge if you read about it.. some have even done testing of different plugs and their results. I know John is knowledgeable but sometimes he states opinions as facts and that is wrong...

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