power steering fluid: do i have to use audi/vw?

[arizona steve]

or does it not matter? mine leaks a bunch and since ive just now tackled the cat issue the car is running again, but next up is replace the oil cooler which i may, or may not, try and do tonight.

as for the leaking power steering, i can deal with filling it up every other day or however long it takes to leak until i can fix it or get it fixed (i read a thread that said sometimes the clamps squeeze down and cut the hose, im hoping its that but theres so much build up from leaking oil and power steering fluid down there my engine bay is a mess! theres no way to tell where its coming from. perhaps ill wipe that area down and see if something comes out fresh and locate the leak.)

so can i go to checker and buy some PS fluid or do i have to go to the dealership and get whatever OEM stuff they sell?

[arizona steve]

what can you guys tell me about this?

power steering leak stop

http://www.partsamerica.com:80/Produ...ring+Stop+Leak

[bOOOOstedAudi]

yes either vw audi stuff or pentosyn. you can burn your pump up using regular stuff

[bOOOOstedAudi]

or does it not matter? mine leaks a bunch and since ive just now tackled the cat issue the car is running again, but next up is replace the oil cooler which i may, or may not, try and do tonight.

as for the leaking power steering, i can deal with filling it up every other day or however long it takes to leak until i can fix it or get it fixed (i read a thread that said sometimes the clamps squeeze down and cut the hose, im hoping its that but theres so much build up from leaking oil and power steering fluid down there my engine bay is a mess! theres no way to tell where its coming from. perhaps ill wipe that area down and see if something comes out fresh and locate the leak.)

so can i go to checker and buy some PS fluid or do i have to go to the dealership and get whatever OEM stuff they sell?

in all honestly i would worry about that por steering leak. that can become way costly if not tended too. also that fluid ruins everthing under the car

[grip_racer]

yes either vw audi stuff or pentosyn. you can burn your pump up using regular stuff

what, are you serious? how do you know this to be true? i just put some generic in mine

[Ewok_Fetus]

If you put some generic in your car, wait about a year or so.

[onemoremile]

You need a fluid that is Vw Audi G002000 compatible.

[arizona steve]

what is pentosyn? can i get it at checker, i just dont want to drive all the way to the dealer (because its really low...ide like to drive as little as possible to checker and top it off in the parking lot for safe measures. or can i not mix whatever OEM is left in there with the new 'pentosyn' or whatever i buy?)

i cant seem to find the leak anywhwere but its very dirty and hard to see anything clearly down there.

[onemoremile]

Removing the SMIC to throttle body hose makes access to the pump and lines a whole lot easier. Check that both lines are tight at the pump, at the reservoir, and at the cooler. Those are the big obvious places. If it isn't any of those then it is probably the rack.

[europshhrc279]

mine leaked a bit when i was doing my FMIC and its a bit low..need to pour some more...which one do i need to buy...if i buy from autozone or pepboys, i really dont wanna drive to audi/vw

[arizona steve]

i hate everyone that works at checker/auto zone all those places.

i call and ask 'do you guys sell the OEM audi/vw power steering fluid, the same stuff that is available at the dealer?'

he says in that totally awesome i know everything because i work here tone 'which one, its model specific'

then i say 'i dont know, i just want to know if you sell the OEM vw/audi fluid, i can figure it out when i get there i just want to know if you sell it or not'

then he mumbles around and says something and i ask 'well what brands do you have at least?'

he says 'theyre all the same, except honda'

wtf? i just say alright later. so he tells me its model specific, and then they are all the same? he needs to explain some shit or something...

[onemoremile]

Honda does have a specific fluid. So does VW/Audi but no one sells it but the dealership. There is a G002000 compatible fluid available in some parts stores but I forget what it is. FWIW, the Audi fluid comes in a generic black and white bottle (think Dharma project) and just says VW Hydraulic Fluid on it. All modern VW and Audi cars use it.

[onemoremile]

from here:
http://www.germanautoparts.com/chemi...luids/Pentosin

Pentosin CHF 7.1 Hydraulic Fluid - Special mineral based hydraulic fluid for use in power steering, central hydraulic and suspension level control systems. Should not be mixed with ATF or other fluids. Temperature range -40C to +100C. ***Note - this was sold as part # G00200 by Audi/VW through 1989. As of 1990 Audi/VW is selling Pentosin CHF11S as their part # G002000. 1989 and earlier models can use either although the 11S is recommended. Audi/VW states that 7.1 and 11S can be mixed if necessary but we suggest draining and flushing the system if you are changing from 7.1 to 11S***

Pentosin CHF 11S Synthetic Hydraulic Fluid - Fully synthetic hydraulic fluid for steering and central hydraulic systems. This synthetic fluid is correct for many later models which specify synthetic fluid. Temperature range -40C to +130C. Should not be mixed with ATF fluids or other power steering fluids. ***Note - this is currently sold as part # G00200 by Audi/VW as of 1990, replacing Pentosin CHF7.1 The CHF11S is correct for Audi/VW 1990 and later models, while Audi/VW 1989 and earlier models can use either 7.1 or 11S although 11S is recommended. Audi/VW states that 7.1 and 11S can be mixed if necessary but we suggest draining and flushing the system if you are changing from 7.1 to 11S***

[offroader1006]

check the hose from the reservoir, thats where mine leaked from.

[bOOOOstedAudi]

I personally dont know what you guys are thinking(some of you). if you put regular stuff in there you will burn out the pump way faster then a year. Also you can get the pentosyn stuff or the vw audi stuff from me and ecstuning.com. onemoremile is also on the right track. and do not ever put stop leak anything in your car

[arizona steve]

went to checker, they were clueless as to what i should get so i went to the dealership where a friend of mine was working and he gave me a CHS green and white metal bottle of fluid and it 'mineral penosin' or however you spell it, but the strange thing is when i went out to the parking lot i was expecting it to be low...and the fluid was pretty much fine. i threw some in there and even then, no difference.

[CaSp3r9]

Listen to bOOOOsted - You must use only Audi/VW specific fluids, if you don't you can say bye bye to your pump within a matter of months. Don't be lazy or cheap, do it right the first time or it'll cost you a new power steering pump. Guaranteed.

[Squarrl]

There is a new cheaper VW fluid out G 004000 MK2 its about $30CND from dealer so its much cheaper now then the G 002000 was

[grip_racer]

okay someone has to prove to me that generic will burn out my pump

im not about to pay $15 for something i can buy for $2 unless there is proof.

[bOOOOstedAudi]

Listen to bOOOOsted - You must use only Audi/VW specific fluids, if you don't you can say bye bye to your pump within a matter of months. Don't be lazy or cheap, do it right the first time or it'll cost you a new power steering pump. Guaranteed.

yeah and now you have to fluch your sytem. i would do it now because last time i checked a p/s pump was close to $280 shipped from me

[tamadrumr88]

There is a new cheaper VW fluid out G 004000 MK2 its about $30CND from dealer so its much cheaper now then the G 002000 was

thats what i bought last week.... $17 for the 1 liter bottle, i work at a competing dealership so i just show them my paystub and they throw me the discount.... total after tax came to $14 and change


here's my thread when i located the p/s leak for my car.... http://audizine.com/forum/showthread.php?t=138237

[pac1085]

Per AudiJunkie over on AW (resident oil/lubricant/fluid guru) there are alternatives, not recommended by Audi of course. He seems to talk about Mobil 1 ATF (yep...automatic transmission fluid) the most. I am putting that in my beater A4 with the new pump to see how it works.

[wood_e]

M1 ATF huh? I've got 2 quarts of the stuff sitting here...

[bOOOOstedAudi]

thats what i bought last week.... $17 for the 1 liter bottle, i work at a competing dealership so i just show them my paystub and they throw me the discount.... total after tax came to $14 and change


here's my thread when i located the p/s leak for my car.... http://audizine.com/forum/showthread.php?t=138237

why are we rattling about these few bucks in difference, the guy has a leak and need to fill up every 2 days anyway so he gonna go through alot unless he goes the right route and fixes the problem

[grip_racer]

so i still want to see some proof of why a generic hydraulic fluid will burn the pump

[pac1085]

It probably won't. It's the same thing as when people say you can only use G12 coolant, when Dexcool is the exact same thing. I'm actually running G-05 now, it's even better technology than G12/Dexcool.

[bOOOOstedAudi]

I never said generic fluid wont work. shit i said the pentosyn will work also. theats not oem. WHAT?!?!?

[grip_racer]

man im being serious here

will generic fluid burn my pump and can i see some proof?

thats all im asking

[F16HTON]

The power steering rack and pump operate on a higher pressure system than typical cars.

VAG specifies the fluid because the engineers that designed the system know it is the correct fluid to use.

15 dollars for a bottle of fluid is much less expensive than $200 plus labor for a steering rack. Once the rack starts leaking (tell tale sign is the car pulling to the left or right all of the time) you run the risk of burning out the pump.

The rack can leak and you will have no clue about it as the fuild will never actually touch the ground (trapped in the tie rod boot).

If $15 breaks the bank for you...

[grip_racer]

thank you for the informative response.

[bOOOOstedAudi]

If $15 breaks the bank for you...

MAYBE YOU NEED TO GO HUSTLE MORE MONEY AND STOP BITCHING
What?

[bOOOOstedAudi]

man im being serious here

will generic fluid burn my pump and can i see some proof?

thats all im asking

no not as long as it is quality. look either use the pentosyn or the vw/audi oem. thats its

[Euro-Tuner]

so if I put some cheap stuff in for a quick fix before I bought the real stuff, is it ok to run on that for a little while...I plan on draining it and puttig the right stuff in, but its generic right now

[bOOOOstedAudi]

No Its Not Ok. Drain The Fucking Cheap Shit Now And Go Spen 15 Buck Oinb The Real Shit.

[onemoremile]

http://www.audifans.com/pipermail/qu...er/063325.html

What I wanted to find out was:

> why is the Audi spec'd fluid SO expensive?
> Is it REALLY that different?
> WHAT makes it special?
>
> In the process I have learnt a lot about hydraulic systems and oils in
> general. Even if I don't find the "Shangri La of hydraulic fluids" I am
> better for the experience as I have educated myself.
>
>
>
> Audi specified certain qualities for the hydraulic oil for their systems
> based on the requirements of the system components built by ZF, Girling
> and others. Pentosin created the product. We'll just talk about the
> original CHF 7.1 to keep it simple.
> Audi spec'd a fluid that is mineral based, with a density of .84 @ 20C,
> flash point of 130C, Pour point greater than -60C, a viscosity index of
> 340 (which means it will not change viscosity much over a given temp
> range, as I found out thanks to other listers) , viscosity of less than
> 1100 @ -40C, 18 @ 40C and 6 @ 100C. (this info is taken from the Pentosin
> website) They labeled this product G002000.
>
> You must agree that you don't need G002000. You need an oil that is
> mineral based, with a density of .84 @ 20C, flash point of 130C, Pour
> point greater than -60C, a viscosity index of 340, viscosity of less than
> 1100 @ -40C, 18 @ 40C and 6 @ 100C.
>
Those viscosity figures now make sense to me, thanks to info from the web
and listers.

> In my research I found that virtually all oil manufacturers cross
> reference the spec's on their products, to the spec's from other
> manufacturers. For example Mobil XXXNNN meets or exceeds the requirements
> of Caterpillar NNXXXNN. Hence they are interchangeable. Caterpillar
> tells you to use only product CAT NNXXXNN, but there would be no harm in
> using Mobil XXXNNN because they are the same thing.
>
> I did not find 1 single manufacturer who cross referenced to G002000.
> Maybe I should have stopped right there, but I didn't as I was curious.
>
> The 'magic' of G002000 appears to be the viscosity index which indicates
> the effect of temperature change on the viscosity of a fluid. My
> understanding is that a higher viscosity index (VI) indicates a fluid
> whose viscosity changes less over a temperature range. Higher number is
> good, lower number is bad. CH 7.1 has a VI of 340 so this is our
> benchmark and likely why no other oils "meet or exceed" the specs of
> G002000 (at least no oils that I have found yet). Apparently the
> engineers at Pentosin managed to reduce the effect of temperature on their
> hydraulic oil whereas other companies either haven't bothered, or haven't
> yet figured it out.
>
WRT to the Mobil DTE specifically, there should be no problem whatsoever for
those in moderate climates, but those of us in the great white north (on
both sides of the pond) shouldn't use it because it will damage the system
components over time. The high viscosity at low temps will likely starve
the pump and or create cavitation, both of which are very harmful.

There are other hydraulic oils out there that meet all the other spec's of
CHF 7.1 and 11S except for the viscosity index so you could use them
seasonally - probably ATF in summer and a winter hydraulic fluid. Generally
these would be unacceptable because if you are using a winter hydraulic
fluid, it likely will become too thin as the engine bay heats up. This will
result in damage due to lack of proper lubrication.

Thanks for reading and thanks to those who gave input and information. And
fix the leaks and stick with the G002000.