Audizine - An Automotive Enthusiast Community

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 40 of 41
  1. #1
    Veteran Member Four Rings Entertainment72's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 12 2005
    AZ Member #
    7206
    My Garage
    2004 Acura TL
    Location
    Fort Myers

    Bosch F5DPOR vs NGK BKR-7E

    Guest-only advertisement. Register or Log In now!
    Bosch F5DPOR vs NGK BKR-7E:

    First and foremost I'd like someone to confirm that the NGK 7e's are in fact one step colder than the Bosch F5DPOR before I give my personal experience as the difference between the two has been significant with my setup (GTRS).

    2004 Audi A4 1.8t Quattro Revo GTRS - Facebook: Eric / Twitter: Eric

  2. #2
    Active Member Three Rings 3thrd_a_4's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 15 2006
    AZ Member #
    12563
    My Garage
    03 BT A4/91 GTI 2.9VR6 S/C'd
    Location
    NJ

    Re: Bosch F5DPOR vs NGK BKR-7E

    Are you saying that you prefer the NGKs? Ive only run them and the original set of Bosch 3 electrode plugs shipped with my GTRS kit (FR5DTC) I find the 7e's work perfectly. They are definately one heat range colder than the 6e's which are the same heat range as stock from what i was told at local auto parts store. not sure if they are colder than the plugs you speak of
    ReVO BT and a bunch of other stuff

  3. #3
    Veteran Member Four Rings Entertainment72's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 12 2005
    AZ Member #
    7206
    My Garage
    2004 Acura TL
    Location
    Fort Myers

    Re: Bosch F5DPOR vs NGK BKR-7E

    Well I assume the 7e's are at least one step colder than the platinum Bosch F5DPOR side firing electrode that some hyped up. I will only say this.. with MY setup and 80+ F degree temps the Bosch F5DPOR do not compare to the 7e's. The timing difference is significant after driving one for one day.. the other for the next day..(going back and forth) etc and changing absolutely nothing other than the plugs themselves.

    I estimate the F5DPOR's perform better in other climates but NOT under Florida conditions. I would put it this way.. plugs alone and if anyone is familiar with the SPS3 and to give an example it would be the equivalent of:

    NGK BKR-7e's on t5
    Bosch F5DPOR on t3

    To me that is just how big a difference I felt on plugs alone.. and not only that, the Bosch F5DPOR were new and the 7e's had about 1000 miles on em.
    2004 Audi A4 1.8t Quattro Revo GTRS - Facebook: Eric / Twitter: Eric

  4. #4
    Veteran Member Four Rings old guy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 28 2006
    AZ Member #
    14483
    My Garage
    '13 A5, '24 Tiguan SEL R-Line
    Location
    Western Maryland

    Re: Bosch F5DPOR vs NGK BKR-7E

    Quote Originally Posted by Entertainment72 View Post
    Bosch F5DPOR vs NGK BKR-7E:

    First and foremost I'd like someone to confirm that the NGK 7e's are in fact one step colder than the Bosch F5DPOR before I give my personal experience as the difference between the two has been significant with my setup (GTRS).

    OK... I went to sparkplugs.com and cross referenced the F5DPOR to the Denso IK22. I then cross referenced the Denso IK22 to the BKR7E IX. Best I can do.
    Last edited by old guy; 04-11-2007 at 05:23 PM.
    '03 A4 5-MT Motoza tuned Frankenturbo F21L With full supporting mods. Sold (and missed dearly).
    '13 A5 6-MT Needs more Fun Stuff: Neuspeed PM / 3.0 TDI Intercooler / H&R OE Sport Springs / Bilstein B8 Shocks / TyrolSport Brake Stiffeners / ECS Short Shifter / S5 Side Skirts / RS Grille

  5. #5
    Veteran Member Four Rings Entertainment72's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 12 2005
    AZ Member #
    7206
    My Garage
    2004 Acura TL
    Location
    Fort Myers

    Re: Bosch F5DPOR vs NGK BKR-7E

    Thanks, so that tells me its the same temperature.

    Bosch F5DPOR - bout 50 miles on them.. normally sell for $25 ea.. I'll let them go for $25 shipped! They are platinum so they should last you 50,000 miles +.
    2004 Audi A4 1.8t Quattro Revo GTRS - Facebook: Eric / Twitter: Eric

  6. #6
    Active Member Three Rings 3thrd_a_4's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 15 2006
    AZ Member #
    12563
    My Garage
    03 BT A4/91 GTI 2.9VR6 S/C'd
    Location
    NJ

    Re: Bosch F5DPOR vs NGK BKR-7E

    Quote Originally Posted by Entertainment72 View Post
    Well I assume the 7e's are at least one step colder than the platinum Bosch F5DPOR side firing electrode that some hyped up. I will only say this.. with MY setup and 80+ F degree temps the Bosch F5DPOR do not compare to the 7e's. The timing difference is significant after driving one for one day.. the other for the next day..(going back and forth) etc and changing absolutely nothing other than the plugs themselves.

    I estimate the F5DPOR's perform better in other climates but NOT under Florida conditions. I would put it this way.. plugs alone and if anyone is familiar with the SPS3 and to give an example it would be the equivalent of:

    NGK BKR-7e's on t5
    Bosch F5DPOR on t3

    To me that is just how big a difference I felt on plugs alone.. and not only that, the Bosch F5DPOR were new and the 7e's had about 1000 miles on em.

    I think the copper plugs make the car run better although not sure of the science behind it. I wouldn't even consider using a platinum plug with my GTRS kit because they ran like crap compared to the NGks when I was running the GIAC FX set-up.
    ReVO BT and a bunch of other stuff

  7. #7
    Active Member Three Rings 3thrd_a_4's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 15 2006
    AZ Member #
    12563
    My Garage
    03 BT A4/91 GTI 2.9VR6 S/C'd
    Location
    NJ

    Re: Bosch F5DPOR vs NGK BKR-7E

    Quote Originally Posted by Entertainment72 View Post
    Thanks, so that tells me its the same temperature.

    Bosch F5DPOR - bout 50 miles on them.. normally sell for $25 ea.. I'll let them go for $25 shipped! They are platinum so they should last you 50,000 miles +.
    I think the BKR7E IX plugs are a range colder than the 7es....actually they may be the same except the IX's are iridium
    ReVO BT and a bunch of other stuff

  8. #8
    Veteran Member Four Rings old guy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 28 2006
    AZ Member #
    14483
    My Garage
    '13 A5, '24 Tiguan SEL R-Line
    Location
    Western Maryland

    Re: Bosch F5DPOR vs NGK BKR-7E

    Could be, but when I cross referenced the BKR7E I came up with the Denso IK22, same as with the BKR7E IX. However, there is a big disclaimer on the site cautioning about exact results when cross referencing.
    '03 A4 5-MT Motoza tuned Frankenturbo F21L With full supporting mods. Sold (and missed dearly).
    '13 A5 6-MT Needs more Fun Stuff: Neuspeed PM / 3.0 TDI Intercooler / H&R OE Sport Springs / Bilstein B8 Shocks / TyrolSport Brake Stiffeners / ECS Short Shifter / S5 Side Skirts / RS Grille

  9. #9
    Veteran Member Four Rings martini's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 10 2004
    AZ Member #
    3092
    My Garage
    2002 A4, 1.8TQM
    Location
    www.a4mods.com

    Re: Bosch F5DPOR vs NGK BKR-7E

    i went to every local store for the 7E's... couldnt find anything but 6E's

    whered your order them
    a4mods.com Stickers!


    http://www.a4mods.com <-- Thats my website!

    - My vehicle is stock.... I promise -
    - BetaAlphaTau member #4 -

  10. #10
    Senior Member Two Rings voltron's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 03 2007
    AZ Member #
    16107
    My Garage
    07 RS4 - 88 Toyota Corolla Wagon
    Location
    Vegas

    Re: Bosch F5DPOR vs NGK BKR-7E

    Quote Originally Posted by martini View Post
    i went to every local store for the 7E's... couldnt find anything but 6E's

    whered your order them

    i just got home from checker auto parts and ordered mine. should be here in 5 days. i also also had no luck finding them local.

  11. #11
    Veteran Member Four Rings Entertainment72's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 12 2005
    AZ Member #
    7206
    My Garage
    2004 Acura TL
    Location
    Fort Myers

    Re: Bosch F5DPOR vs NGK BKR-7E

    Quote Originally Posted by martini View Post
    i went to every local store for the 7E's... couldnt find anything but 6E's

    whered your order them
    Do you have a local NAPA auto parts near you.. they will have them for sure . They should be less than $2 a plug.
    2004 Audi A4 1.8t Quattro Revo GTRS - Facebook: Eric / Twitter: Eric

  12. #12
    Veteran Member Four Rings A4 TSCHUSS's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 24 2005
    AZ Member #
    6213
    My Garage
    E55 AMG, CTS-V
    Location
    Jacksonville, Florida

    Re: Bosch F5DPOR vs NGK BKR-7E

    Quote Originally Posted by 3thrd_a_4 View Post
    I think the copper plugs make the car run better although not sure of the science behind it. I wouldn't even consider using a platinum plug with my GTRS kit because they ran like crap compared to the NGks when I was running the GIAC FX set-up.
    This is exactly right.

    And Eric im not sure where you read about all this hype of the PLATINUM DPOR plug because everyone says to run the FR5DTC aka F5DTC (they dropped the r on newer plugs) which is a COPPER plug.

    Copper plugs run cooler and are better for turbo application but don't last very long, Platinum plugs last a long time but arent as good to use for your application.

    And FYI the FR5DTC is about 1 range cooler (slightly less) than the NGK 7E
    ~David~


    Gone but not forgotten 437whp on 93 octane and washer fluid injection A4 12.2 best ET, 12.3@119 best overall
    480whp/500wtq E55 AMG 11.6@120
    CTS-V 9.6@148

  13. #13
    Veteran Member Four Rings Entertainment72's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 12 2005
    AZ Member #
    7206
    My Garage
    2004 Acura TL
    Location
    Fort Myers

    Re: Bosch F5DPOR vs NGK BKR-7E

    I read about the DPOR plugs and the hype on this site.. through previous searches and current threads ^

    I've tried the FR5DTC and it seemed to work as well as the 7e's, only thing is they cost more and they are an absolute PITA to get. IF the FR5DTC are better, not from my experience with them but if...it is so insignificant that it is not worth the pain to get them and cost to install them every 3000-5000 miles.
    2004 Audi A4 1.8t Quattro Revo GTRS - Facebook: Eric / Twitter: Eric

  14. #14
    Veteran Member Four Rings A4 TSCHUSS's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 24 2005
    AZ Member #
    6213
    My Garage
    E55 AMG, CTS-V
    Location
    Jacksonville, Florida

    Re: Bosch F5DPOR vs NGK BKR-7E

    The FR5dtc and the NGK7e are technically comparable to each other because 6 is the stock heat range and Bosch plugs are cooler with lower numbers (5 being 1 heat range cooler than stock) and the Japanese NGK plugs are cooler with higher numbers (7 being 1 range cooler than stock).

    The only difference between the 2 plugs is one is a single electrode plug (the NGK) and one is a triple electrode (Bosch) The triple electrode is better due to having more grounding available due to the 3 electrodes which will be more consistent. When the plug heats up the ground aka the electrode can move and the closest electrode being used on the bosch may move widening the gap slightly then the next closest electrode will take over as the previous one cools and moves back into place on the other hand the single electrode NGK plug only has the one ground and when it moves after heating up you will have to work with a wider plug gap which will cause you to lose power until the ground cools down in less intense driving and moves back to its original position.

    Man im so insightful

    and yes the Bosch are hard to find, I tried to get them through a Pep Boys and after a month of waiting canceled the order and just ended up getting them from Eurocode.
    ~David~


    Gone but not forgotten 437whp on 93 octane and washer fluid injection A4 12.2 best ET, 12.3@119 best overall
    480whp/500wtq E55 AMG 11.6@120
    CTS-V 9.6@148

  15. #15
    Registered Member Two Rings 232power's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 27 2007
    AZ Member #
    16792
    My Garage
    02 Audi A4 1.8T Q
    Location
    Briarcliff Manor, NY

    Re: Bosch F5DPOR vs NGK BKR-7E

    Quote Originally Posted by Entertainment72 View Post
    I read about the DPOR plugs and the hype on this site.. through previous searches and current threads ^

    I've tried the FR5DTC and it seemed to work as well as the 7e's, only thing is they cost more and they are an absolute PITA to get. IF the FR5DTC are better, not from my experience with them but if...it is so insignificant that it is not worth the pain to get them and cost to install them every 3000-5000 miles.

    I got the FR5DTC with my GTRS kit, why do you say they need to be
    change every 3000-5000 miles .. or did you mean 30-50k ?

    I have easy access to any NKG's .. so I guess if the DTC don't last long
    NGK will go in next..
    2002 B6 Audi A4 1.8T Q with 5-speed Auto (tiptronic)
    * EuroCode - ATP GTRS kit with EuroCode/REVO Software
    * Neuspeed Xtreme Turbo Intake Hose (TIH)
    * Carbonio B6 Cold Air Intake
    * Forge 007PA Diverter Valve
    * AWE Tuning Full Exhaust
    * AWE Tuning Front Mount Intercooler

    Lots of other Rides..

  16. #16
    Veteran Member Four Rings A4 TSCHUSS's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 24 2005
    AZ Member #
    6213
    My Garage
    E55 AMG, CTS-V
    Location
    Jacksonville, Florida

    Re: Bosch F5DPOR vs NGK BKR-7E

    copper plugs which the FR5DTC are (the C stands for copper) dont last as long as iridium or platinum plugs and have a life range around 5,000 miles. The NGK BKR 7E are also a copper plug and will need to be changed in the same frequency of 5,000 miles.
    ~David~


    Gone but not forgotten 437whp on 93 octane and washer fluid injection A4 12.2 best ET, 12.3@119 best overall
    480whp/500wtq E55 AMG 11.6@120
    CTS-V 9.6@148

  17. #17
    Veteran Member Four Rings Entertainment72's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 12 2005
    AZ Member #
    7206
    My Garage
    2004 Acura TL
    Location
    Fort Myers

    Re: Bosch F5DPOR vs NGK BKR-7E

    Quote Originally Posted by 232power View Post
    I got the FR5DTC with my GTRS kit, why do you say they need to be
    change every 3000-5000 miles .. or did you mean 30-50k ?

    I have easy access to any NKG's .. so I guess if the DTC don't last long
    NGK will go in next..
    I hope you dont run your DTC's for 30-50k lol.. they are copper as David has already stated. David I already knew everything you had mentioned.. my point being the 7e's have work perfect for me and many others, in general when you factor:

    cost
    performance
    availability..

    7e's beat other plugs hands down..
    2004 Audi A4 1.8t Quattro Revo GTRS - Facebook: Eric / Twitter: Eric

  18. #18
    Registered Member Two Rings 232power's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 27 2007
    AZ Member #
    16792
    My Garage
    02 Audi A4 1.8T Q
    Location
    Briarcliff Manor, NY

    Re: Bosch F5DPOR vs NGK BKR-7E

    Quote Originally Posted by A4 TSCHUSS View Post
    copper plugs which the FR5DTC are (the C stands for copper) dont last as long as iridium or platinum plugs and have a life range around 5,000 miles. The NGK BKR 7E are also a copper plug and will need to be changed in the same frequency of 5,000 miles.
    ahh.. hmm what about NGK 7eix iridium ?
    2002 B6 Audi A4 1.8T Q with 5-speed Auto (tiptronic)
    * EuroCode - ATP GTRS kit with EuroCode/REVO Software
    * Neuspeed Xtreme Turbo Intake Hose (TIH)
    * Carbonio B6 Cold Air Intake
    * Forge 007PA Diverter Valve
    * AWE Tuning Full Exhaust
    * AWE Tuning Front Mount Intercooler

    Lots of other Rides..

  19. #19
    Registered User Four Rings winston@podi.ca's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 11 2005
    AZ Member #
    6841
    My Garage
    Pods, gauges and more pods
    Location
    Vancouver, BC

    Re: Bosch F5DPOR vs NGK BKR-7E

    Well I ordered a set of F5DP0Rs from the same place and I'll log to see how they work out with my setup compared to the NGKs as I run the same copper plugs as you do.

    Can you tell me which blocks you logged so I can do the same.

  20. #20
    Active Member Three Rings 3thrd_a_4's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 15 2006
    AZ Member #
    12563
    My Garage
    03 BT A4/91 GTI 2.9VR6 S/C'd
    Location
    NJ

    Re: Bosch F5DPOR vs NGK BKR-7E

    Quote Originally Posted by martini View Post
    i went to every local store for the 7E's... couldnt find anything but 6E's

    whered your order them

    Go to advanced auto parts. I picked up 20 of them 2 weeks ago. Can spare a few if you need them badly. i think you are local too...LMK
    ReVO BT and a bunch of other stuff

  21. #21
    Veteran Member Four Rings Audi Skate Snow's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 31 2004
    AZ Member #
    1504
    My Garage
    C300 Sport and tools
    Location
    CA

    Re: Bosch F5DPOR vs NGK BKR-7E

    BOSCH for sure
    BetaAlphaTau member #1.5
    R.I.P B6 A4!!!!!! 12/03/2005 12.63@108... stock 1.8 motor W/ GTRS.
    B6 A4 Avant, 2.0 Liter, 3071, Maestro

  22. #22
    Veteran Member Four Rings diagnosticator's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 26 2005
    AZ Member #
    7741
    Location
    Seattle, WA

    Re: Bosch F5DPOR vs NGK BKR-7E

    OK, the NGK heat range numbers run from 1 to 10, with 1 the hottest, and 10 the coldest. Bosch heat range numbers run the opposite, from 10 to 1, 10 is the hottest, and 1 the coldest. So, with a NGK "6" stock, a "5" Bosch is one step colder than stock, and a NGK "7" is one step colder than stock. (Assuming that NGK "5" is approximately equal heat range to Bosch "5". )
    BTW, multi ground electrode plugs, are more reliable long term compared to single ground plugs, but are not the best choice for performance applications. The reason for this is because the multiple ground electrodes tend to shield the spark kernel from exposure to as much ignitable fuel/air mixture as possible, especially at high rpms, when the available time for ignition to occur is minimal.
    Single ground electrode plugs will produce better ignition performance at high speeds and loads compared to multi ground electrode plugs.
    Last edited by diagnosticator; 04-12-2007 at 04:02 AM.

  23. #23
    Veteran Member Four Rings diagnosticator's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 26 2005
    AZ Member #
    7741
    Location
    Seattle, WA

    Re: Bosch F5DPOR vs NGK BKR-7E

    Quote Originally Posted by Entertainment72 View Post
    Bosch F5DPOR vs NGK BKR-7E:

    First and foremost I'd like someone to confirm that the NGK 7e's are in fact one step colder than the Bosch F5DPOR before I give my personal experience as the difference between the two has been significant with my setup (GTRS).

    The NGK "7" heat range in equal to the Bosch "5" heat range number. So, the NGK 7e is not one step colder than the Bosch F5DP0R, they are ~the same heat range value, at least nominally.

  24. #24
    Active Member Three Rings 3thrd_a_4's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 15 2006
    AZ Member #
    12563
    My Garage
    03 BT A4/91 GTI 2.9VR6 S/C'd
    Location
    NJ

    Re: Bosch F5DPOR vs NGK BKR-7E

    Im pretty sure it comes down to the properties of the metal used in the spark plug cores. I think that plugs with copper cores work better for performance applications on our cars. The platinum and iridium plugs last longer but for some reason don't work as well. Is it possible that two plugs of the same heat range but of different metals need to be gapped differently for optimum performance? Maybe using a larger gap for platinum and iridium plugs given the different heating and cooling properties than copper plugs.
    ReVO BT and a bunch of other stuff

  25. #25
    Veteran Member Four Rings Entertainment72's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 12 2005
    AZ Member #
    7206
    My Garage
    2004 Acura TL
    Location
    Fort Myers

    Re: Bosch F5DPOR vs NGK BKR-7E

    Quote Originally Posted by MC Hammered View Post
    Well I ordered a set of F5DP0Rs from the same place and I'll log to see how they work out with my setup compared to the NGKs as I run the same copper plugs as you do.

    Can you tell me which blocks you logged so I can do the same.
    You can log 003, 020 and maybe 031..
    2004 Audi A4 1.8t Quattro Revo GTRS - Facebook: Eric / Twitter: Eric

  26. #26
    Veteran Member Four Rings DenverNoob's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 15 2005
    AZ Member #
    5294
    My Garage
    Other Peoples' Cars
    Location
    Dayton, OH

    Re: Bosch F5DPOR vs NGK BKR-7E

    ive run the bkr7e and the f5dp0r on my current setup...and personally, despite your findings, like them more. im not desputing your experience in FLA, and i have not run them in extreme heat yet (they went in this winter) so well see. I have nothing, thus far to say up to 80deg F yet which we had a couple of weeks ago here for a day. maybe a bad tank of gas? i am as much a proponent of these as anyone...i have a hard time believing they actually did worse.
    USP CLUB MEMBER #26
    2019 SQ5 Prestige - 034 ECU Stage 1, TCU Stage 2

    - a few Golf Rs in-between -

    2004.5 QMT6 Ultrasport Loaded (retired)

  27. #27
    Veteran Member Four Rings A4 Moda's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 11 2005
    AZ Member #
    6844
    My Garage
    2003 Audi A4 1.8TFSM
    Location
    SoCAL- City of Industry

    Re: Bosch F5DPOR vs NGK BKR-7E

    Sorry to threadjack> While we're on the topic, anybody try sidegapping their 7Es?
    Eurocode TINY Turbo GT71R Eliminator:: REVO Tuning::
    2003 1.8T
    Eliminator||Carbonio V2||ATP EXhaust Manifold ||Neuspeed TIP (Eurocode)||JOE P MBC @ 22PSI B9- Timing 5||Custom 3" Exhaust||Mangaflow Mufflers|| Revo||Reiger||Boser hood||S4 Bixenon Ecodes||LED Tails||Eibach Coilovers||

  28. #28
    Senior Member Two Rings
    Join Date
    Oct 13 2006
    AZ Member #
    12512
    My Garage
    04 A4 USP
    Location
    Naperville, IL

    Re: Bosch F5DPOR vs NGK BKR-7E

    Sidegapping? Care to elaborate?
    USP CLUB MEMBER #33

  29. #29
    Veteran Member Four Rings A4 Moda's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 11 2005
    AZ Member #
    6844
    My Garage
    2003 Audi A4 1.8TFSM
    Location
    SoCAL- City of Industry

    Re: Bosch F5DPOR vs NGK BKR-7E

    Explained in way better detail than I can here
    Eurocode TINY Turbo GT71R Eliminator:: REVO Tuning::
    2003 1.8T
    Eliminator||Carbonio V2||ATP EXhaust Manifold ||Neuspeed TIP (Eurocode)||JOE P MBC @ 22PSI B9- Timing 5||Custom 3" Exhaust||Mangaflow Mufflers|| Revo||Reiger||Boser hood||S4 Bixenon Ecodes||LED Tails||Eibach Coilovers||

  30. #30
    Veteran Member Four Rings
    Join Date
    Apr 27 2004
    AZ Member #
    1896
    My Garage
    2018 GTS Cab, 2020 AMG A35, 2021 XC40 PLUS parking lift
    Location
    Canada

    Re: Bosch F5DPOR vs NGK BKR-7E

    Quote Originally Posted by 3thrd_a_4 View Post
    Im pretty sure it comes down to the properties of the metal used in the spark plug cores. I think that plugs with copper cores work better for performance applications on our cars. The platinum and iridium plugs last longer but for some reason don't work as well. Is it possible that two plugs of the same heat range but of different metals need to be gapped differently for optimum performance? Maybe using a larger gap for platinum and iridium plugs given the different heating and cooling properties than copper plugs.
    I've been swapping between the7E's and the FR5DTC's and my car definitely seems to idle better with the 7E's. Logs show no noticeable differences. Although I haven't yet logged the 7EIX's that I just put in, the car seems to be just as happy with them.
    Need a hotel in Ottawa? Try Albert@Bay or Best Western Plus Ottawa Downtown
    PM me for AZ discounts !

    2020 XC 40
    2018 991 Cab GTS
    2020 AMG A35

    Previous rides: B5 A4, B6 A4 Avant, B7 S4 Avant, B7 RS4, TTS, B8 A4, S3, 2019 Targa

  31. #31
    Veteran Member Four Rings a4wd's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 27 2004
    AZ Member #
    2921
    My Garage
    B6 1.8TQM 5speeeeeeeed
    Location
    Bay Area 925

    Re: Bosch F5DPOR vs NGK BKR-7E

    Umm...this topic has been discussed before. Not exactly the topic on bosch vs NGK, but the difference between platinum and copper plugs. I think Jeff has posted something about this on the forums...


    I guess I will just copy it and paste it ( i actually found it on AW)
    http://forums.audiworld.com/a4gen2/msgs/263262.phtml



    After chipping my 03 1.8T the other day to a 1.5bar program, I noticed some problems.

    1) Slight missfiring/blowouts at ~5000RPM on 4th gear
    2) Slight Pinging (which leads to pre-ignition/detonation) at high boost
    3) Loss of power past 5000RPM (due to the size of our K03's...as well as sparkplug gapping/etc)

    So on Saturday morning, I pulled out my OEM plugs, and this is what I found:

    1) Don't know about the 02's, but my 03 OEM plugs are actually "NGK"...model number BKR6QP (Defined as: B = 14mm thread diameter, K = 5/8" projected tip, R = Resistor plug, 6 = Heat Range 6, Q = 4-ground electrode, P = Platinum)
    2) Sparkplug is actually UNDERGAPPED, where NGK states all their plugs that dont have a (-xx) gap number to it, they should all be factory gapped at 0.0315". My OEM plugs were gapped at 0.027"!!! (Probably lost a good 5hp from that alone)

    With my many years of sparkplug tuning and fiddling, I went to a local Kragen, and purchased a COPPER plug with the same specs mentioned above: BKR6E-11. Same plug, just in a copper form, with a bigger 0.044" pregap.

    I gapped the plugs from it's specs (0.027"?) to 0.032". The minute I fired up the car, the exhaust tone became a LOT deeper. So I took the car around the block, then on the fwy doing some 0-100MPH runs. The car became a LOT smoother. The powerband of the turbo will now make boost past 5000RPM, and the spoolup got a LOT quicker. The "Hesitation" at 5000RPM disappeared, and the idle became a lot smoother. Simply switching the plugs, I would say that my "Ass-Dyno" pretty much felt another 5-10hp difference in power. (will do a VAG-dyno soon.)

    Now many would ask "Why use Copper when they sell Iridiums???" Well first of all, before my explanation, simply switching from platinums to standard coppers will lower your EGT temps anywhere from 30-40C Degrees!...read on:

    Well, here is my explanation:

    Personally, I think Platinums and Iridium plugs should be BANNED from all forced-induced cars (turbo/supercharged).

    I have done sparkplug tuning for many years now (indexing/j-gapping), and I've found Platinums/Iridiums to be inferior to copper plugs in a turbocharged environment.

    Platinum plugs (and Iridiums) were introduced to provide longevity (60k-100k+) to vehicles compared to copper plugs which foul after 3000-5000 miles, but they do NOT dissapate heat fast enough (which leads to pre-ignition/detonation) and do NOT provide a "better spark" like they have claimed...with their "fine-wire electrode" (which only causes problems).

    Copper is one of the best conductors, but they just plain dont last. Using Platinum and Iridium plugs, the center electrode (fine-wire) thin, that under high boost, they get so hot, they will begin to "heat glow" and cause premature ignition in the combustion cycle (pre-ignition => detonation). This is a problem for all of us turbo guys. Copper on the other hand, has a much thicker center electrode, on top of that, the copper material is able to dissapate heat from the combustion chamber fast enough to keep the combustion temperatures lower.

    Remember the TWO primary functions of a sparkplug:
    1) To efficiently ignite the A/F mixture without missfires (gap..etc)
    2) To pull heat from the combustion chamber into the head, where the cooling system should dissapate that heat. (Heat Range)

    With those 2 in mind, coppers will work much better in these environments. For those thinking: "What If I just simple use a colder Platinum plug?" Well, for the kind of boost our A4's make w/ the Krispy-Kreme K03's (1.2 bar..and in my case... 1.5bar), we will reach EGT's of over 900C Degrees (keeping in mind that Pre-ignition occurs at around 870C). Once those colder platinums reach preignition temperature, it will take them FOREVER to dissapate that amount of heat (with the details about the material/design I mentioned above). A platinum/Iridium plug in a colder heat range usually runs just as hot as a copper in the standard heat range when under high stress. So many people will use a Platinum/Iridum plug TWO steps colder to counter that. But using a plug that is 2 steps colder, will lead to two things:
    1) More prone to carbon-fouling on "normal driving" where EGT's are kept low. (Plugs must stay above 550C Deg to burn off excess carbon deposits to "self-clean")
    2) As a result, loss of horsepower.

    You need a plug that is actually "hot enough" to ignite the A/F mixture as hot as possible to get the most efficient combustion, as well as burn off carbon-deposits (~550C deg), and yet cold enough to prevent pre-ignition when compression is high (< 870C Deg).

    With all that said, for those interested in going copper the "feel the difference themselves", I recommend the following plugs:

    NGK: BKR6E, BKR6E-11 (-11 indicates a 0.044" pregap, which should be regapped anyways)

    Denso: K20R, K20R-U11 (bigger pregap)

    I have personally used a colder plug, because my chip is making 1.5 of INSANE boost, and I am personally using the following:

    NGK: BKR7E (Part Number #6097), they are one heat range colder than stock (~80C degrees colder than our OEM platium plugs)

    Well, here's my $0.02 (maybe $0.03) about this issue, feel free to comment or correct me if you have any concerns.

    Happy Boosting

    -Jeff
    Denim Blue 1.8TQ 5-speed
    another stereotypical Audi

  32. #32
    Veteran Member Four Rings F16HTON's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 04 2004
    AZ Member #
    2688
    My Garage
    992 Carrera
    Location
    Makai - Kaka'ako

    Re: Bosch F5DPOR vs NGK BKR-7E

    Jeff did post this...you can find it here and on Audigeeks as well.

  33. #33
    Veteran Member Four Rings F16HTON's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 04 2004
    AZ Member #
    2688
    My Garage
    992 Carrera
    Location
    Makai - Kaka'ako

    Re: Bosch F5DPOR vs NGK BKR-7E

    On the Bosch plugs and the NGK a range of 6 is normal.

    1 range colder for Bosch is a 5

    1 range colder for NGK is a 7

    The advantage to either the Bosch or the NGK are that they both are side firing and copper.

    The copper plugs dissipate heat better than the platin, platinum or irridium.

    Copper plugs do not foul any easier than platinum, platin or irridium, however the copper electrode wears out more quickly because the metal is softer.

    Each time the plug fires, there is a slight erosion of the copper material where the electrical arc has taken place.

    This is why the copper plugs do not last as long as the harder metal plugs...

    The electrode is in the center of the Bosch and NGK plugs, the grounding conductor is on the outside. Electricity will always follow the path of least resistance.

    What makes the Bosch plugs superior in my and the German Engineers opinion is that as the plug gets hot, the metal in the grounding conductor begins to expand, as it expands the gap on the plug opens ever so slightly. As it opens under high boost, you run the risk of spark "blowouts".

    The Bosch plug has three grounding electrodes, the spark has the ability to jump to one of the three (the coolest electrode with the closest gap). The more accurate the gap at high boost, the less spark blowouts (misfires).

    Athough not noticeable in normal driving, when you start making power like my car does, a poorly gapped plug can cost you 2/10s in the quater mile.

  34. #34
    Active Member Four Rings A4ringedONE8T's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 17 2005
    AZ Member #
    5337
    Location
    Sarasota, FL

    Re: Bosch F5DPOR vs NGK BKR-7E

    Quote Originally Posted by 400HPA4 View Post

    Athough not noticeable in normal driving, when you start making power like my car does, a poorly gapped plug can cost you 2/10s in the quater mile.

    I dont think "we" are making any less power than you are so the plugs should run consistant in your car as well as ours

  35. #35
    Veteran Member Four Rings F16HTON's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 04 2004
    AZ Member #
    2688
    My Garage
    992 Carrera
    Location
    Makai - Kaka'ako

    Re: Bosch F5DPOR vs NGK BKR-7E

    I know you are making less power than I am...if you were making more, certainly you would post up a dyno sheet

  36. #36
    Active Member Four Rings A4ringedONE8T's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 17 2005
    AZ Member #
    5337
    Location
    Sarasota, FL

    Re: Bosch F5DPOR vs NGK BKR-7E

    Quote Originally Posted by 400HPA4 View Post
    I know you are making less power than I am...if you were making more, certainly you would post up a dyno sheet
    I think that was very well played

    Coming soon ... as well as a 12 sec FWD A4

  37. #37
    Veteran Member Four Rings F16HTON's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 04 2004
    AZ Member #
    2688
    My Garage
    992 Carrera
    Location
    Makai - Kaka'ako

    Re: Bosch F5DPOR vs NGK BKR-7E

    Just do it....

    Even if you do not hit 12s...I will know you are making power if you trap 118 like Mike Hood did in the Eurocode Tuned 14 second GTI

  38. #38
    Active Member Four Rings A4ringedONE8T's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 17 2005
    AZ Member #
    5337
    Location
    Sarasota, FL

    Re: Bosch F5DPOR vs NGK BKR-7E

    April 27th, Ill even call you on the way home from the track!

  39. #39
    Veteran Member Four Rings Spinnetti's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 10 2004
    AZ Member #
    4453
    My Garage
    R8_LS400
    Location
    Dallas, TX

    Re: Bosch F5DPOR vs NGK BKR-7E

    Quote Originally Posted by diagnosticator View Post
    OK, the NGK heat range numbers run from 1 to 10, with 1 the hottest, and 10 the coldest. Bosch heat range numbers run the opposite, from 10 to 1, 10 is the hottest, and 1 the coldest. So, with a NGK "6" stock, a "5" Bosch is one step colder than stock, and a NGK "7" is one step colder than stock. (Assuming that NGK "5" is approximately equal heat range to Bosch "5". )
    BTW, multi ground electrode plugs, are more reliable long term compared to single ground plugs, but are not the best choice for performance applications. The reason for this is because the multiple ground electrodes tend to shield the spark kernel from exposure to as much ignitable fuel/air mixture as possible, especially at high rpms, when the available time for ignition to occur is minimal.
    Single ground electrode plugs will produce better ignition performance at high speeds and loads compared to multi ground electrode plugs.
    Hmm... Thats what I understand too.
    Why then does Eurocode provide the 3 prongers instead of the NGKS I wonder....
    I just got my GTRS kit.. should I stick with the NGK's then?

    PS, for anybody interested, Dr. Jacobs (used to be of Jacobs ignition) wrote a VERY good book on ignition theory and practice. Good reading and lots to learn there.
    2008 R8 V8 Manual: Uni 93 ECU tune * Avior Exhaust * Spacers * R8 Puddle lights * Custom mats. All 12 of my other VAG cars are gone :(

  40. #40
    Established Member Four Rings A4TL's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 06 2006
    AZ Member #
    13172
    My Garage
    335is
    Location
    atlanta

    Re: Bosch F5DPOR vs NGK BKR-7E

    you guys should check out using copper shims (only if the plugs exhibit any carbon caking on the very outer ring, also try indexing the plugs to see if you gain any performance.

    I've actually seen folks file down standard cheap plugs to make them "like" side-gap with good success.

    I just get used to the 5K routine, change oil+plugs+rotate tires.

    This time i used the brk7's (cheapies).

    you guys know the iridium brk7eix's are like $1.49 (commercial napa account) there's a huge markup on spark plugs

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  


    © 2001-2025 Audizine, Audizine.com, and Driverzines.com
    Audizine is an independently owned and operated automotive enthusiast community and news website.
    Audi and the Audi logo(s) are copyright/trademark Audi AG. Audizine is not endorsed by or affiliated with Audi AG.